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Debian Freezing
An anonymous reader wrote in to alert us to that fact that
Debian is scheduled to Freeze this weekend. Soon there shall be spuds for everyone. This of course means that I will continue to recklessly apt-get upgrade on my laptop with reckless disregard for the safety of anyone within a 20 yard radius of my sofa.
Liquid He is far too expensive, I can get liquid Nitrogen for about 50p a pint, which should be plenty.
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
I have to try this:
:)
1. Get a (real) potato
2. Put it in liquid Nitrogen for about an hour
3. Drop it.
I expect it'll be pretty shatter resistant, just like the debian potato. I shall report here
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
Note that "unstable" really isn't all that unstable, working-wise. Debian has been the most stable, reliable distribution I've ever used. "unstable" is called that mostly because the packages change daily -- or hourly. They haven't been fully tested with the rest of the system, but they work 99% of the time anyway. "stable" tends to get out of date, so I've kept my system in line with "unstable" and have had zero problems.
In my experience, potato has been far more stable than any other distro I've run (haven't tried the latest Red Hats or Mandrake yet, though).
The only drawback with Debian for me was having to sit through the install and answer questions for many packages. That is being worked on however. I don't know what the status for potato is. Can one of the developers comment?
--
I managed to get LinuxPPC 1999 into fairly workable shape, but would like to be running Debian, the PPC version. Does anybody have any feedback on whether that architecture is in vaguely workable condition? I'd be running it on a 9500 powermac with a G3 card in it, in limited drive space. Is it something anybody is actually using, or is it still mostly hypothetical? If it matters, I would need X and ADB support (preferably ability to map missing mousebuttons to Fkeys) but will not be wanting a Linux desktop environment such as Gnome. (Tried that w. LinuxPPC1999 and didn't like it.) :)
Any Mac potatoes out there running Debian?
for those running Slink who don't want to destroy their system.
Hope this helps (and don't let those spud gun pellets moulder down the side of the sofa)...
--
Xenu loves you!
Also note that alcohol freezes at a lower temperature than water, so if you leave it exposed to the elements you may drink a liquid that is below freezing. Talk about your brain freeze...
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Debian creates CD-ROM images for stable releases only. You can find more information in the Debian CD image site. If you want to participate in testing new releases (including new CD images), please join the debian-testing list (see the subscription information).
Several schemes similar to this have been proposed. The most important reason Debian has not switched is that it would require huge changes in project infrastructure (including an enormous one-time hit on the mirrors, I believe) and there simply isn't the energy (enthusiastic manpower, that is) to revamp the system that thoroughly.
I suggest you check out past discussion on the Debian lists, through the public archives.
I haven't done it with apt, but I used to do it on 486 installs with dselect.
Simply go to the directory where it stores the downloads, and type
dpkg -iGER *
which causes it to install anything it can, recursively through the directory structure, but skipping packages already installed. Dpkg won't install anything whose dependencies are not met.
I did it not for download speed, but because some of the packages took so long to install on a 486/33.
You could then try this same command in directories, and delete everthing if it came back saying they were all already installed.
I took a look at this last week with intent to turn a "partly RHAT 5.0, 5.1, and other stuff" box into a Debian system.
Unfortunately, the process is fairly dependent on some particular packages (notably libg++ ) and it looks like it is a distinctly nontrivial process to make this work in practice.
The second problem that you'll hit is that you'll wind up with a whole lot of "cruft," library-like stuff hiding here and there larding up your filesystem.
My inclination would be, instead, to:
At this point, the box happens to be running RHAT 6.1; there is a good likelihood that I'll set up some even "smarter" cfengine rules than I have now and run the box through a few distributions just for the sake of regaining familiarity before letting it settle down with Debian.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
There's not a precise equivalent to Kickstart; what I would do, if I wanted 13 identical boxes, would be:
- Pick one box as a "master," and install everything that you want installed on it.
- Then, add
/var/cache/apt/archives to /etc/exports so that it gets exported to other machines that want it. - Install the "base" Debian stuff (about 6 floppies worth of stuff) on those other machines.
- Copy over some base networking files ( e.g. -
/etc/hosts , /etc/fstab and such) and drop them into place so that each machine has some basic common configuration. - Mount the relevant filesystems on the remote machines, and then have them install via: # dpkg -i
/mnt/common-apt-cache/*.deb - It would make a lot of sense to either build a
.deb package containing any common config scripts/files or provide a common NFS-mounted "export" directory like the "apt package archive" as a conduit to push stuff to the remote boxes. - Set up a cron job on each box that (let's say) runs a script in
/mnt/common-config/ that installs any .deb files in /mnt/common-apt-cache/ that are less than a day old (or check against what's installed).
This is definitely no harder to automate on Debian than it is on RPM-based distributions, and could actually be easier as you could set up a local "package archive" for the whole set of packages and use apt-get hitting a local server rather than a remote one to keep all of the packages up-to-date with what you want on them.I would mount my Debian CD on a separate box and download via HTTP; this has the result of pushing all the packages that got installed into /var/cache/apt/archives
I would tend to want to use cfengine for this; I have yet to get it configured to distribute files itself, which is something it claims to be able to do...
Inserting extra needed lines in config files like /etc/fstab is the sort of thing that cfengine is ideal for...
This gets all the machines to have the "common" stuff.
I would most definitely try to implement this using cfengine as it's designed to do this sort of thing...
Look at cfengine; the Usenix journal ;login has had a series on it recently; it is really powerful.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
What's in a name? RPM is a common acronym, re-used many times. (Revs Per Minute being perhaps the best-known.) On the other hand, I do agree that a package manager should be distinct from a distribution. The code =IS= open-source, so the distribution cannot claim ownership.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Basically the point is that some (me included) don't want to freeze without working boot-floppies (the installation program suite, for those not too deep into Debian) and with a lot of new packages stuck in Incoming.
(Yes, I am leaking information here. But my intention is to fix another lack, because a leak of correct information is IMHO better than a leak of misinformation.
I just finished reading the distribution howto by Eric Raymond - mostly because I've been thinking about switching distributions. The one thing that made me really sad is Eric's comments about the Redhat Package Manager, "The big selling point of this distribution is RPM, the Red Hat Package Manager. This piece of software is a remarkable advance; it allows you to cleanly install and de-install applications and operating-system components, including the kernel and OS base itself. RPM is now used as well by essentially all other distributions except Debian."
.deb?! Why did these two great distributions make their package management systems so proprietary? Not in the sense of non-openness, but in the sense that other distributions having to rely on Redhat or Debian for their package management systems.
What bothered me was the name of the Redhat Package Manager. If Redhat wanted everyone to use it why not seperate itself from the product name. Anyways, I noticed that many other distributions do use rpms. It makes me equally sad that Debian, seemingly, has a more advanced package deployment, grouping system - but they had to go and make the extension
Oh wo is me. When will the LSB do something?
This is all probably flame-baiting, off-topic nonsense. Someone point me to slackware, are they still using tar.gz as their package managing system?
Joseph Elwell.
http://www.geocit ies.com/ResearchTriangle/3328/rh5todeb-howto.txt
Google is good! "convert debian redhat", "I'm feeling lucky", Bam.
I have my dial-on-demand gateway running Squid (and Junkbuster). One machine will perform the update, using HTTP as the apt-get method. I have an http_proxy environment variable pointing to Squid. After that machine finishes its update, I run it on the rest. Subsequent updates pull from the Squid cache, avoiding the modem.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:36:59 +0100
From: Richard Braakman
To: debian-devel-announce@lists.debian.org
Subject: Status of Potato
(Please send followups to debian-devel, not debian-devel-announce)
Potato looks ready to freeze. Its primary goals have been achieved,
and the only things left to do are to finish the bootdisks and fix
lots of bugs. I think it is advisable to freeze now, before we
start major new developments in potato.
Last weekend has shown that the bug count can be reduced rapidly
in intense sessions. We'll need more of those, and probably a large
number of packages will also have to be removed from frozen.
The freeze will be the coming weekend, on Sunday, November 7th.
Before the freeze, we will have to deal with the backlog in Incoming
somehow. There are more than 200 packages in it now and it's growing.
Help is on the way, but probably not in time. In any case, I do not
think it is wise to install a hundred new packages just before the
freeze! My plan is to handle all the packages that fix bugs, and
leave the rest for the new unstable.
After the freeze, I expect it will take a week or two for frozen to
settle down. A lot of bugs can be fixed in that time. This period
will be similar to the traditional freeze.
Then we can start with Test Cycles. These will address the problems
we had with the previous two freezes. A Test Cycle looks like this:
1. Boot disks and CD images are created.
2. The distribution is tested for a fixed amount of time. No changes
of any kind will be made to frozen during this time. Fixes for
problems that are discovered will of course be prepared, but they
will not be installed yet.
3. The results are evaluated. If the distribution is good enough to
release, it is released as it is.
4. Otherwise, fixes are installed, and if necessary, extra time is
taken to fix the problems.
5. New boot disks and CD images are created, and the cycle begins again.
Richard Braakman
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
OK, I'm one of those insane people who downloads each RedHat release over a modem.
It's actually quite painless, I use wget -c and over the course of a few nights I can suck down the entire thing over my blazing fast 33.6K line.
My question is this: Does the Debian package manager have support for partial and interrupted upgrades? It would be nice to upgrade my system a little bit at a time, because I'd be doing it over a modem. Is that possible? I'd also like to do it automatically. I don't want to have to have the package manager list out the dependencies so I would have to download and install the packages manually.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Oh, this is beautiful. Thanks for all the great information. I think that I will get debian going as my system of choice. I've ordered a CD for my first Debian install, but it's great to know that future upgrades can be done automatically, and fairly painlessly through a modem.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
I have always wanted to try Debian but never broke down and did so. I have a couple of questions that I was hoping someone could answer...
1.) Does Debian have any system install automation like Redhat's kickstart?
If I were to start using Debian, I would start USING Debian. Which means I would have to install it on 13 machines, and I don't want to set down and pick packages for each.
2.) How good is the Debian package management?
I would like to use it with the 13 boxes as well... Right now if I need to update something on the boxes I make an rpm, put it in a certain directory, and it installs itself that night. Would something like that be possible in debian?
Thanks ahead of time for anyone's input...
Actually, imbibing alchohol will slow your metabolism....
But you are missing the point. The idea stated by mmmmbeer is to "carry a bottle of scotch".
Obviously, the thinking is as follows:
The idea is to carry with you additional mass (here, the bottle of scotch), causing you to exert the extra effort needed to carry the bottle, which will result in additional energy being released by your body, which becomes trapped in the insulating layers of dress and the blanket, thus creating an environment conducive to retaining your body heat.
You see, in this way, the bottle of scotch makes you more comfortable despite the freeze. However, I'm not qualified to say whether the same principle will apply to Debain's Potato distribution; that calls for the opinion of a biotechnologist.
Yes, if you interrupt download you can continue later. Doing ftp installs over modem is much more convenient, you don't have to download "ALL for the stu'' only package that you need. AFAIK, only Debian and FreeBSD can do that ...
I had been running several RedHat boxes (I think "boxen" sounds stupid :-) over the last couple years, with some Slackware before that, and I had been hearing some very good things about Debian, but I had also been hearing some bad things - mainly about dselect. I decided to wipe one of my RedHat boxes and try out Debian, so I ordered Slink from CheapBytes a few weeks ago.
After struggling with dselect (yes, it has really earned its reputation) for an hour, I finally got the system installed. I started playing around with it, and was having some problems - mainly that the programs which I was too lazy to download and had just copied from my roommate's RedHat 6 box just segfaulted on startup! I was getting very frustrated with this and was about to give up and reinstall RedHat 6 when I noticed that it was only using glibc 2.0.7, which RedHat 6 uses glibc 2.1. So I downloaded the debs of glibc 2.1 from the potato distribution, installed them, and all of a sudden everything worked perfectly.
Since then, I have never been happier with any distro I've ever tried. Debian is absolutely wonderful, especially since I don't have to deal with dselect anymore (a simple dpkg --install on a deb will install it, similar to using rpm) I would definately recommend it to anybody who has a decent amount of experience using Linux (or UNIX in general) and is less than satisfied with RedHat. But I didn't even know that I was less than satisfied until I tried something else. I highly recommend it, and am definately going to try out potato once it's stable (probably on my Alpha as well... it's running RedHat 5.1 right now and is in dire need of an upgrade)
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
Rock! tonight I shall run apt-get with abandon from all my Deb boxen, and I shall rejoice!
.sig: Now legally binding!
1. They have to my knowledge "system profiles" or the type of installation that you would like say something for developers, servers, standard workstations, etc
2. Quite excellent if you use packages that aren't too beta. Usually most of even the really far out pre alpha stuff usually works fine. Much better that a comparative level in Red Hat. As Rob mentioned apt-get can remotely update the system overnight or anytime with a cron job or such. I actually have never yet had to destroy my debian partition to upgrade from slink to any of the unstable stuff so I guess that says something.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Package name changed, try instead: apt-get install console-apt
We're freezing here, too. It should do what I do. Get a warm blanket, dress in layers, and always carry a bottle of scotch. That'll keep you warm when it's freezing. :)