The Do-It-All Remote?

MisterFig asks: "I, like many of you, have too many remote controls to know what to do with. One for the TV, the VCR, the Receiver, the CD player, the Cable box... you get the drift. I don't mind using them all, but is there an easier way? Sure, there are so called "Universal" remotes. But I find these often provide a very limited set of functionality for usually only a subset of my devices. Each remote has it's own special buttons and features that a Universal remote doesn't know about. So I am stuck keeping all the remotes out. Can one remote do it all? I recently came across an add for the Harman Kardon "Take Control". This is a cool remote control that is software programmable, looks really easy to use and supposedly can be programmed to do everything each of your current remotes do. Could it be? A single remote control that can control everything? It's laid out in such a way that you have activities, like "watch tv", "play a cd" or "watch a video". Clicking on the activity will setup the entertainment center to a predefined state of your choosing. This sounds too good to be true! However, it's about $300. Is it worth it? Has anyone used one of these? Are there any other remotes out there that can control everything? Including all the special buttons/features that each of the individual remotes have? " Can it be? An All-In-One remote that claims it actually WORKS?

Comments

...

[Signal 11]

It's called a palm pilot. It has a programmable IR port. All you need to do is make an interface that records the on-off sequence and delay (short or long) and can then repeat it. This is trivial to do even without a CPU.

I did some experiments a long time ago back with electronics (back when I knew what a 555 IC was... heh), and I took a remote and a IR phototransistor and hooked it to an LED so I could see what it was transmitting. Almost all remotes use a system similar to morse code - that is short and long pulses seperated by a specific interval of dark.

In principal any device which can record and play back IR signals could be used as a remote. Infact, the industry has a fairly standard set of signals to send to/from your TV - just get a all-in-one remote and look at the guide. Manufacturers document all of this. The problem is with non-standard features like "still frame" in VCRs. Play, record, stop, ff, rewind, those are all standard. Things like accessing the TV's internal "menu" system isn't.

Hope this helps..

--

Re:...

[Forward The Light Br]

hehehe jinx, (we posted in sync)

one comment (in addition rather)

it appears that there is no software to make the Palm do this at this time

This is NOT to say that the palm cannot; the ability is out-of-box;

rather there are no apps right now that will give you a nice gui to use, and handle said signals... right now you would need to roll your own...

if any readers end up writing one, please post it to freshmeat and palm central (and any other good palm sites)

(freshmeat is not one, but we linux folk would like to buy you a beer as well ;-)
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde

hmmmm

[Forward The Light Br]

I hate to break it to you, but I believe that remote runs WinCE...

if that is ok with you, well this remote is not vaporware, I have a friend who worked for MS who saw them floating around (hardware beta testing) before he left (he no longer works there )

otherwise, both the palm and the HP-48x graphing calculators can be made to do this...

it is considerably easier to do this with the palm, including programming it, as its development is considerably easier than WinCE...

just an FYI
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde

Re:hmmmm

[copito]

There's a resistor you can replace to increase the receive range. The transmit range is several feet, so it's enough for couch to TV if the TV is sensitive enough. I couldn't find any info on increasing transmit power, although I remember a discussion on /., possibly the one in http://slashdot.org/articles/98 /11/21/0958242.shtml but the relavent comments seem to have disappeared (the thread is visible but the comments are empty). One readable post does recommend the HP48G/GX for it's sending range.

BTW, if you want to open up your HP48, see http://www.contrib.andr ew.cmu.edu/~drury/oldhp/how2open.htm first.
--

Two types of universal remotes

[Keelor]

I don't have all the applicable information on hand, nor the article that I remember reading this in (though I think it might be at the Equip magazine site) but there are two types of programmable remotes. One type is the type that most people hear about that have a few hundred "presets" that try to emulate every proprietary remote on the market. The disadvantage, like was mentioned, is that these don't always have _every_ feature. Also, as soon as a new feature comes along, the remote becomes obsolete.

That is why no true techie should ever buy that type of remote. The _real_ universal remote is programmable. The average lay-person is completely confused by these, as they require you to sit with all of your remotes and send the IR signal to the remote so that it can learn the appropriate signal. Hence, these remotes are generally classified as learning remotes. The down-side? Well, the learning remote has no error-checking, so "Volume up" could get programmed as "Turn on the toaster", given the right equipment. That's not a problem for most semi-knowledgable techies, though. The other downside is that, unlike preset remotes, you need a working original remote to begin. This could be a problem if you're looking for a new remote because the last one was crushed by your 2-ton Lego Mindstorms robot.

It sounds like the remote you're looking at is a learning remote. I don't know anything about that one in particular off-hand, but you should be able to comparison shop the multiple learning remotes. I know there are decent articles about this--I'll try to find one and post a reply in this message about it.

~=Keelor

Re:Two types of universal remotes

[adolf]

There's quite a few "serious" programmable hand-held remotes out there -- seems every audio company that's putting their fingers into the home theater market has one (Sony, H-K, Rotel, Onkyo, Marantz, B&K, Carver, and so forth). Some of these are all but incapable of reliably learning codes; others get them right most of the time; none of them get it right all of the time. That said, once the codes are learned, they'll always work. Rather, they'll always work, *if* they've got enough memory to store all of the codes for all of your gear (no good way of determining that without actually trying it).

Many of the more expensive ones use an LCD touch panel. Some of these emulate a hands-on remote (which is silly), while others allow placement and shapes of buttons to be minutely tuned. Still others only have an LCD for clock display, and others still have no LCD at all.

What to do? Depends on how much you like the the toys your equipment has. At the low end, Radio Shack has a learning remote that also has preprogrammed codes (which is a good thing, as it's only got enough memory for about one full keypad of codes - you'd be lucky to get two devices into it if neither worked out-of-the-box). It's around $20, and also works with X10 stuff such as the Firecracker kit that Slashdot is still in bed with.

On the other end of the price spectrum exists Crestron, who makes incredibly serious gear. You get to create your own interface (sadly, using Windows software) and write some code to run it that runs on a large, black, rack-mount box. Plugged into this box can be almost anything - a Matrix Orbital RS-232 keypad would not be out of the question. Or an RF reciever, snagging control codes out of the air from a wireless backlit 256 color LCD panel. And light control? It wouldn't take much doing in order to get it to talk DMX-512 over RS-485, such that you can plug in your choice of professional halogen light dimmers or pretty effects lighting for your next party or stadium gig. One word of caution, though - Crestron does not list prices on their site for a reason.

Xantech has a few serious remote control systems (mostly geared toward permanent installation), and is the behind-the-scenes manufacturer for a large percentage of IR equipment.

Me, I can't afford a Crestron system, Xantech is too inconveniently yuppie for my taste (though I do use a remote repeater system of theirs, and our host Rob has one of their ground loop eliminators hung off of his VCR), and the cheaper LCD panel remotes seem flaky and cheap. So, I use a couple of things (depending on my mood and/or how involved I want to be with button-pushing).

Firstly is a Rotel RR920 learning remote. They don't make it anymore :^), but it works wonders. A large, geekish array of buttons with equally geekish labels (what did they intend the BEQ button to do, anyway? I've got it running the TV's sleep timer), and I've never come close to running out of memory with it. It supports lengthy macros, and has an LCD clock (which can also trigger said macros). List price was $150, iirc.
No pre-programmed codes, so you're on your own if you've lost the original remote.

I've also got the aforementioned Radio Shack remote. It doesn't do as much, but does have a glow in the dark button you can push to light up the keypad. I keep it by the bed to turn the lights on and off with X10. For each bank of buttons, there's a few (usually) unassigned keys that you can learn arbitrary commands into. And, the pre-programmed codes aren't complete shit - it does every feature of my DSS equipment, and formerly did the Primestar boxen without complaint. But, it has no codes for my Carver CD player or Rotel preamp, and its poor little memory got filled up rather quickly because of that.

Whatever you get, it'd serve you well to buy from a place with a liberal return policy. Some of these things will not do what you expect (never trust the packaging), and there's some devices (such as a Samsung TV that I have) which no third-party remote can control (except a Crestron system, which just doesn't care how funky the remote's signal is; it will duplicate it).

Check out High-End A/V dealers

[JoeShmoe]

I wish I could remember the name, but there is a terrific system that is used in a lot of the conference rooms where I work.

Basically, you have a touch-screen pad that has an RF transmitter. The RF transmitter communicates with a box that you put near your A/V equipment. The box has a series of wires running out of it. At the end of each wire is an IR transmitter. You velcro the transmitter near the IR window on the device you want to control and run the wire back to the RF box.

To program the device, you basically point a remote at the IR window on the RF receiver and on the touchpad, a new button will appear. You tap out out the function name and file it under a device category.

Now, when you tap the touchpad, it sends a RF singal back to the box which then replays the stored IR signal out through the wire to the appropriate device.

RF means you can control pretty much everything in your house. You can also get multiple receivers for different A/V equipment. Where I work, the secretary for the high mucky-mucks has the touchpad that controls the equipment in all four of the executive conference rooms. You can even control lights with modules that wire into the receiver.

Slick slick system, but it costs at least a couple thousand. I'm know this post doesn't really have a whole lot of useful information, but my main point is to avoid consumer products. You are going to get crap. I've seen every consumer remote out there and they are all horrible.

Search the Internet for A/V dealers that sell high-end equipment for businesses. You will end up paying for it, but you can pretty much get a system that is perfect.

I'll shut up now and let people post the names of such high-end A/V suppliers, or even the name of the system I just described.

- JoeShmoe

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

MS remote

[MillMan]

Yes, it indeed does run a sort of windows CE variant...

But it's still a remote, there isn't any OS per say, it might as well be transparent. It does have a microsoft look/feel, though. Another company sells the same remote, madrigal. (www.madrigal.com) It's called the IRIQ. I think they charge more, however. My friend owns one, he says it's worked pretty well for him. I haven't used it myself though so I can't speak to how good it really is.

There is another alternative though, if you want to spend 2k or more :) There are a few companies that make remotes that don't use microsoft (well pretty much all of them), and have color LCD touch screens. They are highly customizeable as well, and will run up to 8 devices. I'm speaking of the one made by phast (www.phast.com). I'll let the website describe the rest.

Basically you pay more money for more customizability. Check out a few issues of Home Theatre magazine, they always have ads for "universal remotes". There are a lot of options.

Re: Palm Pilot

[keytoe]

You don't even have to do anything to make the Palm Pilot work - there's an application called PalmRemote that'll record any IR input and play it back on demand.

The cool thing about this is that you can have up to 14 different 'remotes' to choose from - and you get to build them the way you want by simply drawing 'buttons' on the screen. Additionally, you can assign 'macros' to buttons that trigger multiple actions. Sadly, it's not free or open source - but $20 is a far cry from $300 (and it doesn't run wince).

Ever since I saw this, I've been wanting to head down to Circuit City and learn all of the remotes down there and then... head down to the local sports bar and keep hitting the 'all TVs to the cartoon network' button. Muhahaha. The bonus here is that you'd look like you were working :)

Palm IR Port too weak

[Fjord]

I used to run the OmniRemote software by Pacific NeoTek. This tool allows you to record a signal from a device (or a set of signals) and replay them back. So you would point your TV remote at the IR port, hit record on OmniRemote, press "channel up", stop recording and label the "button" you recorded into "Ch+".

The problem was that the built in IR port was too weak. It couldn't control anything more than 2 feet away. So it was just a cute toy that has no practical value.

There are hardware add ons that give you a longer range (or an IR port if you don't have one), but I haven't tried them. There is the OmniRemote Module also by NeoTek for $20 (a lot less than the $300 above, even if you have to buy a used Palm), and TaleBeam for $30 (sorry, $29.95). Apparently there is no software for the TaleBeam yet.

Re:Palm IR Port too weak

[Pascal Q. Porcupine]

That's a neat trick, having an IR beam as strong as the original Pilot, considering the Pilot had no IR port... :) My experience with OmniRemote on my PalmIII's built-in port is that I can control some of my devices from a good 12 feet away, depending on how sensitive the particular device is.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

Re:Palm IR Port too weak

[Pascal Q. Porcupine]

Ah, I know about that, but the poster didn't say "Palm upgraded with the PalmIII upgrade card." :) I wasn't aware that the upgrade card's range was better than the real deal's though. Interesting. Regardless, my PalmIII has 10-12 feet of range even when the batteries are as low as 30% (I've never tested it any lower though).
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

Applicable link

[Keelor]

Well, I couldn't find the article I was thinking of, but The-Gadgeteer seems to have a whole gamut of links to reviews and useful sites. Hope it helps.

~=Keelor

Oh boy...

[jfunk]

I have the same woes.

It appears to be impossible to find a good remote.

Check this site for a ton of info. Beware, big companies give this guy free remotes so don't expect a hell of a lot of journalistic integry anywhere but the user forums.

For cheap and good, the SL-9000 does look quite nice. I've never tried it though. It has decent punch-through and macro options (most important).

For high-end, the Philips one looks pretty good but I don't really like those screens because you actually have to look at it to get to a button. I can hit most of the buttons on my five separate remotes (works for now, I'm afraid of the lost functionality of multi-remotes). There is also the fact that you can't fit a hell of a lot of buttons on those screens, you'll probably find yourself scrolling a lot.

If you like those screens and want something kind of cheap, there is software you can get for a palm but the IR port isn't all that high-powered. I heard somewhere (can't remember where) that there will be a remote control addition to the Visor.

My advice: a number of high-end home theatre stores will let you bring a remote home to try it out. Do this and don't buy anything fancy unless you need the functionality.

I have also thought about designing my own remote. Simply use a PIC, a 2-wire EEPROM, a serial port, and a load of buttons and you can program your remote graphically on your PC. A lot of low-level remote info can be found through the LIRC (Linux Infrared Remote Control) project. This way you can get a remote that does pretty much anything you want and you won't have to worry about setting punch-throughs, macros, switching between components, etc. The software would allow you to print a sheet which you can cut up and place under a clear plastic cover on your remote that has the key names on it. Some remotes have little stickers that you can place under the buttons so that would be an option (although not so elegant) as well.

Yes, I'm very serious about designing my own remote. I have done much thought on it. I want it to be as good or better quality than commercial remotes. If anyone is interested in helping out/discussing it email me and we'll maybe set up a mailing list and web page, etc.

Re:Palm-remore

[GnrcMan]

Wow...that brings back memories. In '95, when I was in college, I bought an HP 48GX, in hopes that my boring math classes could get done with more quickly...Needless to say, it didn't work, the 48GX was simply an expensive vehicle to play Tetris on during math class. Anyway, I remember downloading the remote control program. It was neat except they disabled the IR so that you could only transmit a short distance, to curtail cheating.

Anyway, does anyone remember the "Tricorder" program for the HP? It would beep more quickly based on the proximity of the IR sensor to some mildly reflective surface. That was mildly amusing. A fun processor to hack on too!

--GnrcMan--

Nerd it up

[gad_zuki!]

Practical? Economical? Bah, I scoff at your IR needs.

What you need is a PalmPilot + the Omniremote software. They even sell a hardware add on if you don't have IR.

Goto http://www.pacificneotek.com/

BTW, this is the gear the guys at the HackFurby project use - http://www.homestead.com/hackfurby/

And when you perfect your IR floodlamp remote please don't distrub my daily viewings of Manimal and Joni Loves Chachi.

Re:Palmpilot controller

[gad_zuki!]

Most IR car openers( read: lazy man's key ) 'jump' codes so once you use that code it's no longer good. You could copy the code and use it once if you're so inclined.

Leapfrom makes IR to RF attachment that sends the signal to an RF to IR box pointing at your stereo or tv so you can turn down KC and the Sunshine band while in the shitter.

Sure...

[Greyfox]

You can get a serial IR emitter/reciever for your PC. Plugs right into the serial port, doesn't need batteries. Then just have your system watch for codes coming down the serial port and act appropriately (So you could instruct the computer to manipulate X10 devices via a remote.)

I believe so

[Greyfox]

It should just be a matter of figuring out what data is coming in on the IR port and spitting it back out again. You could also do this with a PC and one of those IR emitters you can get down at CompUSA for $30. It would be kind of cool to sit down at the PC and drive your whole audio/video entertainment center.

PalmOS Remotes...

[William Tanksley]

Yes, that's a good solution. The problem is that the normal Palm IR is pretty weak. Read the user testimonials to see the range.

You either have to get an IR extender (fairly cheap and useful) or instead of buying a Palm, buy a Visor. User reports indicate that they have punch-through-the-walls power IR. I have no idea why they'd do that -- but that's WAY cool. Nobody's yet reported a maximum range for remote control (but there are very few people who have Visors yet); the people who have tried gave up after getting out of sight of their devices.

I can think of a use, though. Imagine an entire classroom set up as a distributed network -- during a test.

-Billy

Anyone remember...

[Graymalkin]

the Apple MessagePad? I recall seeing a nice little app for it called Showmate that would let you control all of your favourite entertainment appliances. The drawback is the Newton's IR signal was weak so you needed to be within ten feet of the device and it only worked with five brands of electronics.

Bite the bullet...

[Wohali]

...and get the Sony. As the guy says, it can be found cheap (I got it for $125), and if you get over the spelling error on the LCD (mine says "Sound Feild" instead of "Sound Field"), it's a great remote.

I especially like the fact that the batteries for the backlight are separate from the batteries for the remote memory...that's just intelligent design.

Re:Philips Pronto is the way to go

[otis wildflower]

I suppose, but:

• Pronto's screen is larger and it has additional buttons for controls (vol+/-, chan+/-, left and right)
  
• It has a super-powerful IR element with like a 30'+ range or something. I doubt the Pilot's more than 10' (the Newton IR never guaranteed AV control over 6'!)
  
• 4AA batteries (or desktop charger) mean that it has power for months. See how long those AAAs run your IR emitter constantly.
  
• The ProntoEdit IDE is powerful and simple IMO, and though I haven't seen the palm-based stuff I can't imagine it getting any easier or more powerful than PE.
  
• the Pronto has a game Easter Egg in it, so if there's nothing good on TV you can play Tetris.. With the larger screen ;)
  

Yeah, when it came out, it was $400, but nowadays it'll cost less and come with a recharger.. Personally, I think mine was worth it, and you can have it when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.. ;)
Your Working Boy,

Sony RM-Y903 Remote Commander

[_egg]

I can't seem to find the specific entry for this model on Sony's website, but they apparently offer it as the standard remote for their big screen TVs now. I picked one up at a local Sony store. For about $90, it replaced my VCR, TV, DVD, amp, etc. remotes. It's a little big, but it's got a nice backlit blue LCD screen, is completely programmable, etc. You have to pick from preselected labels for the buttons on the screen, but I found everything I wanted there. Several nice features, including an easy way to link the volume in all states to the volume of your amp. Also three "system state" buttons... I programmed one each for watching TV, video tapes, and DVDs. Each turns on the appropriate items, sets the amp to the correct source, puts the tv on the appropriate input, etc. Very nice remote, and reduced clutter in my living room to nothing. Very easy to find due to size. =)

Incidentally, I learned a little known fact about most TVs in doing the programming of this remote... If you want to have a button that lands you on Video 2, for example, in the course of doing other things, you may think you're screwed because you don't know what video source you were on before that. With only one button that says "TV/Video", how do you properly switch among N sources? It turns out that (with Sonys, and I'm sure many others) you can hold down the TV/Video button while you press the number corresponding to the source you want to watch. Very handy!! Spread the word!

Re:Philips Pronto

[Jamie Zawinski]

I also have a Pronto, and it is without a doubt the best remote control I have ever seen in my life. I've had it for about six months (and it's still on the first set of batteries!)

The Pronto Edit software is very easy to use; I generally do all my programming of it with the computer instead of by hand on the remote.

I only wish I could figure out how to make VMware talk to my serial port, so that I wouldn't have to boot Windows to do this, sigh...

One of the interesting things you will discover the first time you try to use a touchscreen as a remote control is that it's slightly harder to operate in the dark: because you have to actually turn your head and look at the (backlit) screen to find the buttons, you can't just feel around for them. But that's another of the benefits of the Pronto over something more Pilot-like: it has seven physical buttons that are also per-page programmable (laid out for Mute, Ch +/-, Vol +/-, Left and Right) so I tend to use those for the most frequent actions, and don't actually have to look at it much except when changing pages.

Re:Philips Pronto is the way to go

[Jamie Zawinski]

Uhhh for $400 you could buy the nicest palm out there-- the Vx. Or two visors, providing you could actually get them shipped to you successfully. And had the patience to order and reorder (rinse and repeat) until they arrived...

First of all, it's not really $400, that's the list price; you can get them for half that.

Second, yes, you could get a nice Palm for that price. And I'd consider doing that, just as soon as someone demonstrates to me that a Palm will work as well as this remote does, in terms of ease-of-programmability, ability to memorize codes of other remote controls, and broadcast range.

(And don't tell me "just solder in a new resistor." Please.)

You're not paying for a Palm clone here, folks. You're paying for both hardware and software. You're paying for a solution to a particular problem in a particular niche. If someone has a software-only solution, I'd like to see it. But to my knowlege it doesn't exist.

I can't emphasize enough how well the Pronto actually works .

I've used many programmable remotes over the last decade, and they all suck! The Pronto is the first I've used that actually does what I want it to do, and so I consider it a bargain at just about any price...

CORE (was Re:Cloud 9)

[Jamie Zawinski]

The Woz made the ultimate IR remote a few years back, called the "Cloud 9", it could learn any other remote and was fully programmable. Of course, it was 65C02 based.

A rare find indeed, the market was not ready for that much remote.

Woz's remote was called the CORE (Cloud 9 was the company name.) I believe it was the first memorizing programmable remote control on the market.

I owned one (still do, it's around here somewhere...) The thing was a complete piece of junk. Programming it was like using a combination of assembler and APL, it had lousy range, and it burned through its batteries in about two weeks (forgetting all its programming, of course.)

It did have buttons labelled 0 through F, though, which I thought was cute...

It was a very neat device for the time, and definitely groundbreaking. But as far as being a usable remote control -- well, sadly, no. It wasn't that the market wasn't ready for it, it was that the thing just wasn't any good.

Re:The problem with all UNI remotes

[Jamie Zawinski]

If you're like me, you have a DVD and VCR. I happen to have a decent VCR, meaning there is a jog shuttle. I use this to edit, and cannot do without it. There is no universal remote that has a jog shuttle of any kind, making the whole concept of universal remote moot if you have decent video gear, let alone professional.

It's true, it would be nice if the Pronto was an inch and a half taller and had a programmable jog-shuttle wheel on it. What I did when I laid out the pages for my devices with J/S wheels was add buttons for several speeds:

• • [] [>>] [>>>]

Then I had it memorize 3 positions in either direction on the wheel (well, 5 positions plus "play".) This works fairly well for normal viewing usage. (Though technically I guess I've only programmed "shuttle", not "jog".)

However, I can't imagine trying to do video editing with an IR remote at all! Do you actually do that? My VCRs (Panasonic AG-1950s, thirteen years old and still going strong!) have a hardwired edit controller that can control both decks in sync or independently, that has its own J/S wheel, as well as controls for edit-lists.

IR is nice, but never underestimate the power and flexibility of a 20' cable. I can reach the whole room with it, and I don't have to point it in any particular direction.

Re:What I want...

[dublin]

If you've got B&O gear in the first place it's hard to feel sorry for you...

Still, this is why I didn't buy a B&O rig several years ago. Although they used to have the best remotes on the planet, they are decidedly behind the times now, and have been for several years.

B&O's IR remotes work quite differently from the garden variety, but they definitely have a superior architecture (as usual for them...)

There are two things that make B&O remotes fundamentally different: First, the carrier frequency is *much* higher (400 KHz vs. 40 KHz, IIRC), giving the opportunity for far higher data rates. Second, the protocol allows for 2-way communication, so the CD player, for instance, can display the title of the track playing on the remote itself.

So far as I know, there's no learning remote out there that's capable of sampling quickly enough to snarf B&O remote codes.

And of course, B&O asumes if you can afford any of their gear, then everything in your house will be theirs, so their remotes (at least last time I checked) don't have the ability to control non-B&O gear, either. Bummer.

Re:Get non-Wince version, or get a Learning remote

[Jamie Zawinski]

The Marantz one IS the Pronto. Same company, same body, largely the same software.

I had heard, though, that they do run WinCE. I don't know how to verify this.

I would assume that if the Pronto was running Wince, there would be a Microsoft logo in the manual somewhere. There's not.

It doesn't feel Wincey. E.g., there's no Start button...

But then, I've seen a lot of ATMs and other kiosks crashed to NT lately. Oh for the good old days when one only saw them crashed to DOS!

Re:CORE

[Jamie Zawinski]

This crossed my path recently:

From: cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams
Subject: Re: Consumer electronics (was: A few random questions)
Date: 22 Jul 1999 22:52:23 GMT

In article pg@sff.net writes:

After quitting from Apple Computer, Steve Wozniak designed a universal remote that apparently was VERY programmable. I would love to get one, but unfortunately they were sold for a very short time (too powerful for the FCC, or something like that).

Ohmigod. Oh my god! That was the CORE, and I have two or three of them sitting in my drawer right now. Want one? They broke easily, and didn't repair too solidly.

I have long lost count of how many languages I've programmed, but this was easily the hardest -- and I'm including languages like Ladder Diagram Notation here. You could do anything, but damn! did you have to be tenacious far beyond the call of geekery. As I recall, basically you could set a timer to act as if you had pushed a buton at a certain time, and you programmed by putting instructions under that button -- mostly pushes of other buttons, under which you had put pushes of other buttons -- and the only way you really got anything useful done was to include under a given button instructions which said "next time you're pushed, edit your own current instructions, changing them to the following set:...". In other words, this was not an environment in which you employed self-modifying code as a space-saver or a geeky tour-de-force -- self-modifying code was the _only_ way to implement things like counters and possibly (if I recall correctly) even IF/ELSE.

I now write programs which generate and polish really really big telescope mirrors. I was much prouder of being able to write programs which would tell the CORE "turn on both VCRs, then after 5:30 change the channel to..."

I think I still have the manual, if you'd like me to copy it.