The documentation indicates what you need to do to get Domino running on other distributions. I believe that RedHat 6 and OpenLinux are the only ones that work 'out of the box', and therefore are the only systems that can be 'certified' --
UNIX Clients killed for lack of interest
by
IntlHarvester
·
· Score: 2
Note that with Notes 4.x, they supported clients on Solaris (Sparc and x86), AIX, and HP/UX. The upshot was that not many people were all that interested in running the Notes client on UNIX operating systems. It wasn't worth losing money for the infintesimal number of desktop unix users that would need Notes (rather than standard IMAP & NNTP stuff).
Now, I know that Linux has lead to a resurgancy in desktop Unix, but unfortuantly the development cycle moves in years, not months. I'm sure that if Lotus could have forseen a demand for Linux on the desktop, they might have planned an R5 client from the get go, but instead the chose to use MFC and target Mac and Windows only. It probably would be impossible for the IBM buearacracy to change course that quickly.
(If there were a NotesR5/UNIX client, it would be same thing on both Linux and commercial UNIX -- that means Motif. Sorry KDE and Gnome fans.)
Lotus/IBM looks at the market as a series of deployments of tens and hundreds of thousands of clients. In short, they aren't that worried about the single IT guy who wants to format Windows off his machine. If you are a big shop, and you plan to deploy a few thousand Linux seats, then maybe IBM will listen to you. Otherwise any demand for a Linux client is going right to/dev/null. --
The issue with supporting Domino R5 on different Linux distributions comes largely from two points:
1. Different distributions use different libc/glibc versions. Domino was written to use the latest production glibc, thus the support of Red Hat 6.0 and OpenLinux.
2. The QA effort to validate a Domino installation across all the major Linux distributions is immense. Even with automated test suites, the amount of person-hours spent on thoroughly testing a Domino release on one platform (and different OS releases/distributions are considered separate platforms) becomes a prohibitive obstacle to testing all of them.
Domino itself does or uses nothing that is distribution-specific. It installs itself completely under/opt/lotus, as do the other Unix variants. However, with the diverse universe of Linux distributions that exist today, it would be impractical for Lotus to assume responsibility for software/platform combinations that they have not tested.
Now, if you want to complain about the fact that they aren't porting the clients, I'll complain right along with you.:-)
Okay, so when Joe Schmoe calls and says "Why can't I get Domino to run on my Linux PC?" what are they supposed to say?
There could be a thousand things wrong with the distribution that this customer is using. Maybe it's Libc5, maybe it doesn't use the same directory tree structure, maybe it doesn't support mice -- who knows!
The point is, by supporting Caldera and Redhat, IBM is making sure that certain features are there. I'll bet that Domino will work with just about every other modern distro, but there's probably a bunch that it doesn't, for good reasons too. You can't expect IBM to cater to everyone; it doesn't make sense.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
If you're running a server in order to run Domino, you're likely going to be installing a fresh server.
It is not overly onerous to install one of the named distributions in order to run it; what is overly onerous is the bureaucracy that would be involved in validating that Domino works in all sorts of possibly oddball configurations.
You know, and I know, that if the configuration is generic enough that Domino will run happily on RHAT and Caldera's distributions, it is highly likely that it will also run on other distributions.
Let IBM have their bureaucratic nightmares, and be happy with them.
Those customers that want straight answers on what IBM is willing to support will be happy with the present answers. And those of us that know better will be able to cope with the rather less mundane state of reality...
-- If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
System Requirements, Availability and Pricing Lotus Domino R5 for Linux is supported on two leading commercial distributions of Linux: Red Hat Linux 6.0 and Caldera OpenLinux.
Ack! WHY?! That's not a very good idea on IBM's part. That's like saying "This product is only supported under Windows 95. You MAY be able to run it under Windows 98, but we won't support you if you do." They really should have made it generalized enough that it can run on all major distributions. There are going to be sysadmins out there who want Domino Server, but run Slackware or Debian.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
--
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.:P)
Domino is the server side to notes. Notes is a middleware product to enable collaboration. When properly used it can be excellent at this; when poorly used it just frustrates and annoys people. Some of the features include: email, calendar, addressbook, databases and custom applications. Of course EVERYTHING is implemented as a database, and is designed from the ground up as a collabroative network application (yes, even email and addressbook - actually a GOOD thing for some, say I move my office, I tell my sales rep who updates one entry and shipping has got current information immediately, as does tech support, etc. The strong point are the database and applications arenas, anyone can develop a notes database and put it to use within their team, department, area, division, group, company, enterprise, etc. Applications are a tad harder, but not by much. Much like the web, this does have the unfortunate side effect that any IDIOT can put up a database/application even without haveing a clue what they're doing and as a result you can get some very bad designs out there... which for some reason people blame Notes/Domino for. Like I should blame Netscape for all those hideous home pages that start with a picture of someone's cat??
i'm just surprised that despite the closed-sourcedness of Notes, there are no LinuxPPC binaries. While I wouldn't ordinarily expect anyone to support the PPC platform, since IBM _makes_ a number of machines that use the PPC chip you'd think they'd want to at least pay the platform lip service.. i guess they assume any ppc machines they sold will be running AIX anyway.:P
That being said, i do think that one of linux's greatest strengths is its flexibility across hardware platforms, and they really should make an effort to compile binaries for the ppc and alpha platforms.. i guess those markets just aren't big enough. But still i'm sure it's a lot less effort to support redhat linuxppc vs. redhat x86 than it is to support, say, distributions running different versions of glibc.
You have to realize that *WE* the techies would like nothing more than have the Notes client running on either KDE or GNOME (irreverant of the port -- Domino Sneak Peek 1 has been running on Red Hat, Caldera, PHT TurboLinux, Suse, Mandrake, Slackware and Debian).
However, you have to realize that the client is there for all people that use computers, which includes people that do other stuff for a living and where computers are a tool, not the primary focus of their jobs.
Therefore, is it realistic to think that a secretary would leave familiar territory (which is what Windows, to a certain degree affords) for Linux? I was at the Alternative: Linux Conference last week in Montreal last week and there was a lot of debate around that.
In the end, three things were agreed upon: One, the functionality provided by the Web Browser (and added applets) provided a lot of features you would want the Notes client in the first place; 2) Provide feedback to Lotus in regards to getting the Notes client ported to Linux -- realizing that Lotus has to pay its engineers and any resources placed to that effort are taken away from other places; and, 3) It is a good effort and Lotus should be commended for the work so far.
One last comment, since there was a rumour at the conference to that effect -- Someone told me that the Win32 Notes client ran on top of WINE, the Windows Emulator for Linux. Has anyone confirmed this?
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The documentation indicates what you need to do to get Domino running on other distributions. I believe that RedHat 6 and OpenLinux are the only ones that work 'out of the box', and therefore are the only systems that can be 'certified'
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Note that with Notes 4.x, they supported clients on Solaris (Sparc and x86), AIX, and HP/UX. The upshot was that not many people were all that interested in running the Notes client on UNIX operating systems. It wasn't worth losing money for the infintesimal number of desktop unix users that would need Notes (rather than standard IMAP & NNTP stuff).
/dev/null.
Now, I know that Linux has lead to a resurgancy in desktop Unix, but unfortuantly the development cycle moves in years, not months. I'm sure that if Lotus could have forseen a demand for Linux on the desktop, they might have planned an R5 client from the get go, but instead the chose to use MFC and target Mac and Windows only. It probably would be impossible for the IBM buearacracy to change course that quickly.
(If there were a NotesR5/UNIX client, it would be same thing on both Linux and commercial UNIX -- that means Motif. Sorry KDE and Gnome fans.)
Lotus/IBM looks at the market as a series of deployments of tens and hundreds of thousands of clients. In short, they aren't that worried about the single IT guy who wants to format Windows off his machine. If you are a big shop, and you plan to deploy a few thousand Linux seats, then maybe IBM will listen to you. Otherwise any demand for a Linux client is going right to
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Exactly why I believe that if people insist on offering only binary distributions, to offer a statically linked copy as well as shared.
This takes care of almost every problem with distribution differences, other than directory trees.
The issue with supporting Domino R5 on different Linux distributions comes largely from two points:
/opt/lotus, as do the other Unix variants. However, with the diverse universe of Linux distributions that exist today, it would be impractical for Lotus to assume responsibility for software/platform combinations that they have not tested.
:-)
1. Different distributions use different libc/glibc versions. Domino was written to use the latest production glibc, thus the support of Red Hat 6.0 and OpenLinux.
2. The QA effort to validate a Domino installation across all the major Linux distributions is immense. Even with automated test suites, the amount of person-hours spent on thoroughly testing a Domino release on one platform (and different OS releases/distributions are considered separate platforms) becomes a prohibitive obstacle to testing all of them.
Domino itself does or uses nothing that is distribution-specific. It installs itself completely under
Now, if you want to complain about the fact that they aren't porting the clients, I'll complain right along with you.
There could be a thousand things wrong with the distribution that this customer is using. Maybe it's Libc5, maybe it doesn't use the same directory tree structure, maybe it doesn't support mice -- who knows!
The point is, by supporting Caldera and Redhat, IBM is making sure that certain features are there. I'll bet that Domino will work with just about every other modern distro, but there's probably a bunch that it doesn't, for good reasons too. You can't expect IBM to cater to everyone; it doesn't make sense.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
They have to be able to have a service offering.
If you're running a server in order to run Domino, you're likely going to be installing a fresh server.
It is not overly onerous to install one of the named distributions in order to run it; what is overly onerous is the bureaucracy that would be involved in validating that Domino works in all sorts of possibly oddball configurations.
You know, and I know, that if the configuration is generic enough that Domino will run happily on RHAT and Caldera's distributions, it is highly likely that it will also run on other distributions.
Let IBM have their bureaucratic nightmares, and be happy with them.
Those customers that want straight answers on what IBM is willing to support will be happy with the present answers. And those of us that know better will be able to cope with the rather less mundane state of reality...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Lotus Domino R5 for Linux is supported on two leading commercial distributions of Linux: Red Hat Linux 6.0 and Caldera OpenLinux.
Ack! WHY?! That's not a very good idea on IBM's part. That's like saying "This product is only supported under Windows 95. You MAY be able to run it under Windows 98, but we won't support you if you do." They really should have made it generalized enough that it can run on all major distributions. There are going to be sysadmins out there who want Domino Server, but run Slackware or Debian.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Domino is the server side to notes. Notes is a middleware product to enable collaboration. When properly used it can be excellent at this; when poorly used it just frustrates and annoys people. Some of the features include: email, calendar, addressbook, databases and custom applications. Of course EVERYTHING is implemented as a database, and is designed from the ground up as a collabroative network application (yes, even email and addressbook - actually a GOOD thing for some, say I move my office, I tell my sales rep who updates one entry and shipping has got current information immediately, as does tech support, etc. The strong point are the database and applications arenas, anyone can develop a notes database and put it to use within their team, department, area, division, group, company, enterprise, etc. Applications are a tad harder, but not by much. Much like the web, this does have the unfortunate side effect that any IDIOT can put up a database/application even without haveing a clue what they're doing and as a result you can get some very bad designs out there... which for some reason people blame Notes/Domino for. Like I should blame Netscape for all those hideous home pages that start with a picture of someone's cat??
oh yeah... "I AM"
they killed off all non windows clients with r5
Wrong. The MacOS client is alive. It even supports the Admin and Designer portions.
i'm just surprised that despite the closed-sourcedness of Notes, there are no LinuxPPC binaries. While I wouldn't ordinarily expect anyone to support the PPC platform, since IBM _makes_ a number of machines that use the PPC chip you'd think they'd want to at least pay the platform lip service.. i guess they assume any ppc machines they sold will be running AIX anyway. :P
That being said, i do think that one of linux's greatest strengths is its flexibility across hardware platforms, and they really should make an effort to compile binaries for the ppc and alpha platforms.. i guess those markets just aren't big enough. But still i'm sure it's a lot less effort to support redhat linuxppc vs. redhat x86 than it is to support, say, distributions running different versions of glibc.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
You have to realize that *WE* the techies would like nothing more than have the Notes client running on either KDE or GNOME (irreverant of the port -- Domino Sneak Peek 1 has been running on Red Hat, Caldera, PHT TurboLinux, Suse, Mandrake, Slackware and Debian).
However, you have to realize that the client is there for all people that use computers, which includes people that do other stuff for a living and where computers are a tool, not the primary focus of their jobs.
Therefore, is it realistic to think that a secretary would leave familiar territory (which is what Windows, to a certain degree affords) for Linux? I was at the Alternative: Linux Conference last week in Montreal last week and there was a lot of debate around that.
In the end, three things were agreed upon: One, the functionality provided by the Web Browser (and added applets) provided a lot of features you would want the Notes client in the first place; 2) Provide feedback to Lotus in regards to getting the Notes client ported to Linux -- realizing that Lotus has to pay its engineers and any resources placed to that effort are taken away from other places; and, 3) It is a good effort and Lotus should be commended for the work so far.
One last comment, since there was a rumour at the conference to that effect -- Someone told me that the Win32 Notes client ran on top of WINE, the Windows Emulator for Linux. Has anyone confirmed this?