Red Caps Adopt Red Hat

China, in the news more recently for sentencing hackers to death, now looks set to encourage them. In this article from the South China Morning Post, Red Hat says it will establish a beach head in the rapidly industrialising sleeping giant to push Linux before Microsoft makes its move. We reported in November that Linux was to be China's official OS. I can see Red Hat stock jumping skyward if a billion communists suddenly decide Linux is their desktop and server platform of choice.

Comments

Sensationalism

[Pascal Q. Porcupine]

Usually when something like this happens, I bite my tongue and let the other naysayers come out of the woodwork. However, I would expect better from Slashdot not to use a sensationalist headline like "Red Caps Adopt Red Hat," and I would hope that the editors would know better than trying to stir up flames by pointing out their (not really that recent) sentencing of crackers (isn't this the same news site which is constantly trying to distinguish between a hacker and a cracker?). It seems that whenever things involve China or other non-English-speaking nations, Slashdot gets nice and sensational, showing only one side of the issue even when that side is relatively irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Thanks, Nathan, for putting a sour taste in my mouth tonight.
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"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

china is the future of open source

[tao.ca]

regardless of recent market fluctuations, this should boost redhat in a big way. i think its a great move, and hope it spurs catalytic interest in open source computing in china.

its ludicrous to suggest that 'communists in china' would be the biggest user of gnu/linux/open source, when in fact, its the entrepreneurial class (mixed with the military) that is the driving (economic) force in china right now. the communists are doing their best just to keep up.

frame this within a deep and diverse culture of a multi-millenial civilization (that is what we call china), and you may find the utopia of new found developers and users. while the chinese state may be harsh and severe, the chinese people are as curious and interested in new things as the rest of us.

as our respective governments (american and chinese) continue to banter and boast of their power and prestige, is it not then up to us, the people, to brige the cultural gaps, and find a shared space (internet) of understanding (open source)? otherwise what is to stop the hawks on both sides from using we the people as fodder for their conflicts?

Windows does beat linux for I18N

[poopie]

Developing nations *can* afford klunky M$ products. Pirated CDs with MS software cost the same as linux cds. I do not endorse piracy, but there *are* thousands of shops that sell pirated software in Asia and they do it publicly.

So, price isn't an issue. Maybe copyright compliance is, but not price.

The biggest problem I can see to increasing linux use in Asia is internationalization. I'm willing to bet that many millions of people would rather use windows in their own language than linux in english.

I know, for european languages, you can set LC_ALL , and I know that there are localized version of linux in Thai, Japanese, Chinese, but until we have a single distribution of linux that can imput and display all the major languages in every app, we're not finished.

There's more to it than meet the eye.

Do you have any idea how many different ways there are to type chinese? (at least 18 different imput methods if memory serves me)

Do you have any idea how many different and incompatible character sets there are for Chinese? (at least 3 completely different ones)

Do you have any idea how few of the total chinese characters are even represented in a complete UNICODE font? (I think unicode font includes about 20,000 Chinese, Japanese, Korean glyphs while Chinese has over 80,000 characters)

add on a batch of other languages with accents above, below, or on either side of character, and then start thinking about right to left text input. (arabic, hebrew, ...)

sadly, X wasn't designed with these in mind. The GNOME folks are working on pango to address these issues... seems redhat is putting a lot of work into internationalizaion...

Here's a link to gscript

Here's a gtk internationalization whitepaper

sentencing hacker to death

[Anonymous Coward]

Just in case, given with a particular country,
given with a particular hacker who commit
a particular crime(not necessary hacking) that worths death penality in that particular country.

I will not surprise to hear a story in Yahoo.com that "Sentence hackers to death".

However, if that paritcular country is the
Goddamn fucking CHINA, then everybody will
gone insane and mock, accuse and swear on it
whatever the reason is.

Similar titles can be heard from CNN.com and
abcnews.com everyday.

(1)China violating human right on XX YY ZZ
(2)China government sentence two AA BB CC
(3)YYZZXX organization were banned from China.

Just adding the term China in the news headline
makes the news worth reading. And then adding
violating human rights is another additive to
make it sounds "TRUE"--the correctness of the
story itself doesn't matter. Everybody gonna
love this kind of news.

Remember the USSR in 70's and early 80's?

I wonder why these people never learn.

Shame on you, Nathan!

[Bruce Perens]

I got so pissed off by this story that I've had to type in this comment three times just to get it right.

I'm trying to be diplomatic about this one and it's really hard. The headline isn't true, the story isn't true for the most part, and it's just an attempt to dig up that old Linux and Communism canard again. Did Jeff and Rob decide to fly to California and leave Slashdot with the wrong baby-sitter?

• The nation of China has not made Linux its official operating system. The story to that effect was a hoax.
• The Red Caps are not adopting Red Hat. They never said they were.
• One billion communists are not adopting Linux as their platform of choice. That is speculation.
• Exactly one thing in the story is true. Red Hat is opening an office and going after the Chinese market, like a lot of other capitalist companies.

But we knew this much already, months ago. So what's the reason for this story? It's about the worst thing I've seen on Slashdot in quite a while.

Bruce

Re:STOP

[odaiwai]

For many people in China, a desktop would be useful mainly to shelter under when it's raining or too sunny.

As for a computer, the big barrier is literacy in English.

Handwritten input of chinese characters is big business here and that input method is something Linux needs to work on.

dave

Linux and Asian languages

[Taco Cowboy]

Dear Poopie,

Thank you for bringing up the issue of how difficult it is to use Chinese in the cyberworld.

Yes, there are 22 different ways - not 18 ! - of inputing the Chinese characters into computer-understandable form.

Yes, there are three completely different encodings for Chinese characters.

And the problem faced by most Chinese (and most Asians as well, for that matter) is not that computer is difficult to use, but TYPING IN their own languages, be it Thai, Korean, Japanese, Tamil or Chinese, is SO DIFFICULT one would have to re-learn the whole concept of typing !!

It is no longer QWERTY or Dvorak keyboard routine, but mind-boggling act of memorizing STUPID key sequences that has TOTALLY NOTHING TO DO with how the characters are shaped....

For that matter, using MS-Windoze to type in the Chinese (or Thai, or Korean, and so on) isn't that easier than Linux. You _still_ have to memorize those STUPID key-sequences, or there is no go.

But help is on the way. IBM's "Via Voice" and all other voice-recognition softwares are transforming the landscape - we no longer have to crack our brains in order to type in a simple sentences, - using the voice recognition software, all we have to concentrate on is WHAT WE WANT TO SAY.

I hope, in the near future, all the languages in the world will be easily used in computer, and I would like to express my sincerest thanks to all the talented individuals who have done such a superb job in creating the voice-recognition softwares, and companies like IBM which has generously supported such herculean efforts.

Irony of Irony

[Inoshiro]

I can't believe no one picked this juicy nugget out:
"I can see Red Hat stock jumping skyward if a billion communists suddenly decide Linux is their desktop and server platform of choice."

Yes, a communist country feeding a free market economy -- Association with communism will increase the free market valuation. :-)

<cliche>Only in America.</cliche>
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The War in Asia for Linux

[Conspire]

The War Ahead for Linux in Asia

Hello All!

I am an expatriate living in Asia and running a trading/consulting company.

I recently switched our network over to a RH solution from NT4.0. I did this for the following reasons:

1. I did not want to fork over upgrade fees for NT4.0 and Office 2K next year.

2. I installed sp5.0 on our NT4.0 Alpha server a couple months ago, crashing the entire server, losing lots of valuable information, and forcing me to re-install from step 1. I decided on that day that I want a stable Unix based solution for our enterprise server.

3. I had played with Linux (RH6.0) on my workstation, and found it easy to install, configure and use. I then installed on another employee's computer, and he found it to be ok for application use. The stability of the kernel is VERY GOOD (Thanks to all you developers out there!!! Drinks are on me when you are in town!)

4. I believe in Open Source as a defense against possible dangers to the free world caused by proprietary network solutions and protocols.

Ok, the war is ahead, and there are MILESTONE battlefields that must be crossed before anyone using, developing, selling, or banking on Linux and the open source movement can cheer: THESE BATTLEFIELDS ARE:

1. A STABLE INTERNATIONALIZED BROWSER. Netscape is half a load short of bricks for Linux. We all know it. It crashes all the time and drives me nuts. Options? Not Opera, which I have tried in beta form and find flaky. Not Amaya, which I can't even read WIRED.COM with. And surely not Lynx, which I like using now and again but find just a little too much like gophering for the year 2k. What do I do if I want to read a Chinese Big5 charset page in English Linux? If I am running M$, I can do this, and read Arabic, and read Japanese, without any glitches. LINUX NEEDS A GOOD STABLE BROWSER WITH INTERNATIONALIZED READING AND INPUT CAPABILITY. The future is the internet, and this is the key to having any market share on the desktop of the future. MS may realize this one day and just release IE for Linux. They may be working on it now, and if it were out tomorrow, I would pay for it.

2. STABLE INTERNATIONALIZED OFFICE APPLICATIONS. Running Office 97 English under NT4.0, I could read a Chinese big5 business plan submitted to me. Now, I have to go to one of the Chinese NT4 Workstations to read one. And why are there still Chinese NT4 Workstations in the office? Well, because there IS NO CHINESE APPLICATION software for Linux. That's right NONE. So the NT workstaions gotta stay, and I will have to pay M$ for upgrade fees sometime next year for NT5 and Office2K. I would much rather pay for a Chinese version of StarOffice, or Applix or even Office2K for Linux! The Chinese employees refuse to use English office apps, as they don't even speak fluent English! IF LINUX WANTS TO CONQUER THE DESKTOP, IT WILL NEED TOOLS TO DO IT. As this is a world market, Linux needs tools for worldwide use. There are posts about this above this one, so I will not go into more details here.

3. WORLD DISTRIBUTION. M$ is used on 90%+ desktops in China, and of those probably 90%+ are not paid licenses. M$ does not care, because this creates a barrier of entry to competitors' products at the present and in the future. WHEN the average Chinese user can afford to pay for the M$ License, which is much sooner than most of you who have never been there think, THEY WILL PAY FOR IT. And, they would rather pay for it than pay the time needed learn a new OS and Office Application Platform. This is the economics of software gentleman and ladies, and we are living in a single market world economy. M$ is available at every single software store, both legal and illegal, in China. What about Linux? It took me 4 hours of computer shop hopping and alotta "duh, what is Linux you freak?" looks before I found a book with RH6.0, RH6.1, CLE0.8 and some local disto CD all included in the book for about 12.00 $USD. I could have got a pirated copy of NT4.0 and Office97 for the same price, in about 2 minutes of shopping!

4. PROFITABILITY AND SHAREHOLDER VALUE. Wall Street can be very understanding and kind in the beginning of a relationship. Unfortunately, as time goes on (not much time et'all), investors start looking at the value of their investment and the overall profitability of the enterprise. RH, LNUX, and all the latest Linux IPOs companies will need to prove their value in bottom line numbers in the coming year. Anyone of you involved in Open Source based Companies, please remember, PROFITABILITY IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF THE FIRM, and you must be profitable to survive the years ahead and win the war. I hope that RH, LNUX and the others are very profitable and bless their shareholders, but it will be tough to beat M$. Per employee perhaps the most profitable company in the world, M$ buys new revenue streams with that income, and hence my next battlefield-M&A.

5. MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS IN THE LINUX COMMERCIAL COMMUNITY. Giants rule the modern corporate world with market share and profitability. Niche markets are for small players, and small players will get acquired in time. In order for Linux to compete, there will need to be a consolidation in the industry. Fortunately, M$ is distracted by the Justice Dept at present, and can not consider an open Linux buyout. Now that Linux related shares are a commodity, they are for the picking by the giants if they want it. It is only a matter of time UNLESS the Commercial Linux Community itself begins consolidations through M&A and grows into a giant itself. I was very disappointed to NOT read "Corel and RedHat finalize merger deal today" during 1999. Applix would make a great buyout target for RedHat. Get wise gents, and get together to get big.

Well, just a few humble opinions. Sorry if some stuff is repeated from above posts.

If I were a developer, I would be contributing to Linux in every way I could. Since I am not a developer, all I can do is educate and encourage friends to try Linux, and prepare them for the revolution that may or may not happen. I hope it happens, and Linux and the Open Source movement in general have my cheers, 100%.

By the way, did anyone figure out that chess move Knight takes Rook checkmate move #5? It's got me stumped!

Free the software, the chinese people will follow.

[MattMann]

One billion communists are not adopting Linux as their platform of choice. That is speculation.

Absolutely correct. The official announcement from China stated that they would make "a billion free copies of free operating system softwares for the free Chinese people." 3chelon picked up that communique inadvertantly as part of its program to monitor the FSF, but dropped its hand to enlist Stallman's help in deciphering it. In this case, he has taken the position that only the latter usage is appropriate: "think of them as LGPLed", he said. TomC joined the discussion to say the Chinese government could do whatever it wanted with its software or its people as he would never presume to coerce anyone, and asked, did we know that they call Larry, "The Great Wall"?

To get to the truth, industry has been surveyed:

• Redhat has reported 1 download of 6.1 through China's internet gateway
• Microsoft has reported selling 1 copy of Windows 98 in China (an upgrade from Win3.1, actually), and 2 copies of NT (um, let's see, yes, 1 server and 1 workstation), both as competitive upgrades from OS/2 through a local retailer called Hundred Year Old Egghead.
• Microsoft has also reported several attempted downloads of Windows 2000 but they were from a Netscape browser and had not yet been successful, though the spokesman did twitch and then robotically issue an assurance of total browser compatibility, and went on to promise the imminent release of IE for linux which would "make the whole thing work more smoothly, that is if you can trust an unstable, unsupported kernel, with nobody to sue."
• Mac Warehouse indicated that they sold a Mac G3 and a Torx toolkit, but both were returned (for merchandise credit to resolve a lengthy dispute over whether stripped screwheads indicated that the cover had or had not been opened)
• after consulting the many factions, it was also determined that no copies of BSD had been downloaded, but it was pointed out that the core of Win2000 could legally be BSD for all anybody knew, and then the line went dead, then switched to a modem carrier right after shouts of "hey, let's grep for 'Regents!'" "Yeah!" "hey, grep for my name, grep for my name"