Yes, it's true, an engineer in China is typically much less productive than an engineer in the united states. After all, you often get what you pay for. However, I really think all these anti globalization types need to take an econ 101 class. There are problems with what is happening now, but I think the world needs to figure out some way to get along, and protectionism really isn't the answer. Don't people in other countries have just as much right to a job as people in rich countries? I think they do. If companies were somehow penalized for "outsourcing" jobs (or, in other words, giving the job to the guy who they *think* can do it best and cheapest), it would be adding unneeded bloat and cost to products. The consumer ends up paying in the end and weak firms are allowed to continue operating. I'm sorry, but engineers (and all kinds of other white collar & blue collar jobs) are just not as valuable as they used to be to the market place because there are countries like india and china that are willing to do it much cheaper. But seriously, everybody talks about equality in the world and freedom until other countries are allowed to compete with you for your job, and then you're all about giving unfair advantages to rich, fat countries. A bit hipocritical i think.
I was just reading through a lot of these replies and a lot of them seem angry, afraid, and generally misinformed. I had some random thoughts I wanted to contribute that people might consider.
1. China has quite a bit more going for it than "cheap labor". China graduates over 800,000 people per year in engineering and sciences. How does that compare to the US (or any other nation)? Further, when people accuse Chinese businesses of paying "slave wages", they fail to take into account what these people were doing before the economic reforms that began in 1978. In fact, these "slave wages" have lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty since that time. Granted, this upward movement hasn't brought most people to even close to the level that we enjoy in the West, but these things don't happen over night and I think we're a bit spoiled, frankly. And there's still a long ways to go, as hundreds of millions more still live in abject poverty. But nonetheless, it's impossible to deny (at least I think) that this is "progress" (and i use that in the sense that living conditions are better than they were, and they are continuing to improve).
2. People in the US go on and on about our superpower status, our empire. But let's be serious here. We have only truly been a superpower since the end of world war II (about the time we came up with the a-bomb). We have been the "only" superpower since 1991, which is not such a long time. People forget that we, even with democracy and inalienable rights and all of that american goodness, started out as a third world country. In fact, it wasn't until the end of the 19th century that we could really start to call ourselves a wealthy nation. And that was an ugly ugly time in history for us (the gilded age i guess), but I think it could be said that a lot of good came from all that. But seriously, America, get over yourself. You're not the smartest, most innovative country EVER, and your ruler of the world status has only been in place for about 50-60 years. How long did the Roman Empire enjoy that status?
3. On the sensitive issue of their totalitarian government, I've heard the argument that innovation is impossible without freedom of speech and information and etc. I agree, to a point. While I enjoy my own freedoms, I do not think they are necessary to productivity. Consider this: if you are an engineer, you need to be able to talk about a lot of different stuff, and think in different ways, to design a new product. But where exactly does discussion about politics contribute to that? It doesn't. People in china have freedom of speech, as long as that speech doesn't involve politics. While I disagree in principal with how the party conducts itself, I don't see political discussion/freedom as a prerequisite to doing your job or innovating in the vast majority of fields.
4. The US and Chinese economies are more intermingled than most people realize. It's relatively common knowledge that much of the decrease in prices of many consumer goods we've seen is thanks to China's ability to produce goods cheaply due mostly to comparitively much lower wages. What a lot of people don't realize is that China is financing a large part of America's debt. When dollars flow into China, they exchange them for yuan, then take those dollars and buy US treasury bonds, which the US issues to finance its enormous national debt. Therefore, America owes China a hell of a lot of money, and this gives China enormous power (or maybe it just gives america less power). Also, the huge rise in oil prices is mostly due to quickly increasing demand from developing countries (not just China and India btw) not the war in iraq or instability in the middle east. Also, most people agree that the yuan is significantly undervalued, but China has been hesitant to let it rise because this would make their exports comparitively more expensive. Sooner or later they will let it rise (so buy now!;-).
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, it's true, an engineer in China is typically much less productive than an engineer in the united states. After all, you often get what you pay for. However, I really think all these anti globalization types need to take an econ 101 class. There are problems with what is happening now, but I think the world needs to figure out some way to get along, and protectionism really isn't the answer. Don't people in other countries have just as much right to a job as people in rich countries? I think they do. If companies were somehow penalized for "outsourcing" jobs (or, in other words, giving the job to the guy who they *think* can do it best and cheapest), it would be adding unneeded bloat and cost to products. The consumer ends up paying in the end and weak firms are allowed to continue operating. I'm sorry, but engineers (and all kinds of other white collar & blue collar jobs) are just not as valuable as they used to be to the market place because there are countries like india and china that are willing to do it much cheaper. But seriously, everybody talks about equality in the world and freedom until other countries are allowed to compete with you for your job, and then you're all about giving unfair advantages to rich, fat countries. A bit hipocritical i think.
I was just reading through a lot of these replies and a lot of them seem angry, afraid, and generally misinformed. I had some random thoughts I wanted to contribute that people might consider.
;-).
1. China has quite a bit more going for it than "cheap labor". China graduates over 800,000 people per year in engineering and sciences. How does that compare to the US (or any other nation)? Further, when people accuse Chinese businesses of paying "slave wages", they fail to take into account what these people were doing before the economic reforms that began in 1978. In fact, these "slave wages" have lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty since that time. Granted, this upward movement hasn't brought most people to even close to the level that we enjoy in the West, but these things don't happen over night and I think we're a bit spoiled, frankly. And there's still a long ways to go, as hundreds of millions more still live in abject poverty. But nonetheless, it's impossible to deny (at least I think) that this is "progress" (and i use that in the sense that living conditions are better than they were, and they are continuing to improve).
2. People in the US go on and on about our superpower status, our empire. But let's be serious here. We have only truly been a superpower since the end of world war II (about the time we came up with the a-bomb). We have been the "only" superpower since 1991, which is not such a long time. People forget that we, even with democracy and inalienable rights and all of that american goodness, started out as a third world country. In fact, it wasn't until the end of the 19th century that we could really start to call ourselves a wealthy nation. And that was an ugly ugly time in history for us (the gilded age i guess), but I think it could be said that a lot of good came from all that. But seriously, America, get over yourself. You're not the smartest, most innovative country EVER, and your ruler of the world status has only been in place for about 50-60 years. How long did the Roman Empire enjoy that status?
3. On the sensitive issue of their totalitarian government, I've heard the argument that innovation is impossible without freedom of speech and information and etc. I agree, to a point. While I enjoy my own freedoms, I do not think they are necessary to productivity. Consider this: if you are an engineer, you need to be able to talk about a lot of different stuff, and think in different ways, to design a new product. But where exactly does discussion about politics contribute to that? It doesn't. People in china have freedom of speech, as long as that speech doesn't involve politics. While I disagree in principal with how the party conducts itself, I don't see political discussion/freedom as a prerequisite to doing your job or innovating in the vast majority of fields.
4. The US and Chinese economies are more intermingled than most people realize. It's relatively common knowledge that much of the decrease in prices of many consumer goods we've seen is thanks to China's ability to produce goods cheaply due mostly to comparitively much lower wages. What a lot of people don't realize is that China is financing a large part of America's debt. When dollars flow into China, they exchange them for yuan, then take those dollars and buy US treasury bonds, which the US issues to finance its enormous national debt. Therefore, America owes China a hell of a lot of money, and this gives China enormous power (or maybe it just gives america less power). Also, the huge rise in oil prices is mostly due to quickly increasing demand from developing countries (not just China and India btw) not the war in iraq or instability in the middle east. Also, most people agree that the yuan is significantly undervalued, but China has been hesitant to let it rise because this would make their exports comparitively more expensive. Sooner or later they will let it rise (so buy now!
5. China does steal quite a bit of IP from other