whoever the fuck moderated that down is a MORON! look at the thread is started. anything worth that debate is worth looking at.
it wasn't anti-GPL, wasn't anti-OpenSource all i said was "try to see this guys view" and NO you couldn't do that. everyone who flamed me couldn't see that, couldn't bare to even think it.
every man trys to do "good", whats best for him may hurt others, but that's STILL GOOD FOR HIM. personally, ya, i agree. he's a dumbass. but you still should try to se his side of it.
this place is full of very inteligant people, unfortantly, at times. and in certain threads you can be very closed minded.
I know it's not the best analogy. It's just the best I could come up with during my lunch break., but thank you for the constructive criticism.
Do I think this guys doing "the right thing"? NO, can I see his side? Why he's doing what he's doing, yeah maybe. At least I'M TRYIING.
EVERYONE here is just singing a long, kill the non-GPL, burn the Microsoft. Etc.. RELIZE everyone has a story to tell, for fairness, it's important to tell all sides of the story.
I know if I was in his place, I would feel somewhat compelled perform the same actions. I just don't think I would, I don't have the balls.
Think of it as you find some foster kid. He's really cute and sweet, so you take her home, feed her well. And in a few years she's really grown on you. Your so proud of what you've done. You can't think of every letting her go.
She's the best in class, smartest and prettiest, everyone loves here.
Then the foster care place comes marching a long with a bunch of angry lawyers and the real father of this child (carmack) and demands you give her back to the foster home, and they show you this think called a GPL, and how is says you could only borrow the kid, not keep her.
Sure you can visit, hell even live in the foster care, but knowing everyone and there dogs going to want a piece or your little girl, it's just not right.
I know this is flamebait bu tI would like to make a point. I used to be a software tester by profession now a developer. Large software products *always* ship with bugs. Even the number of bugs that Win2K has is not suprised, and its not actually that serious. For a change look at the bug lists for FreeBSD OpenBSD, or debian once in awhile, I cant give you an exact estimate but I assure you, you cant count them on your fingers. Also take this into consideration, how many languages is Win2K going to ported to? I think NT 4.0 is ported into 40+ languages, each language has its own little gotchas, for isntance if a chinese character is getting render poorly on one application in a little known dialog box it is considered a bug. In this industry bug range in severity widely.
Now when Win2K hits the public it will go through this aby period where new bugs will be found and service packs will be realeased, if you dont like the number of bugs then wait till a souple of SPs have come out, and the codebase evens out. Win2k is a huge step for M$, and there is a lot of new stuff, you will have to expect some bug. It is akin the linux rewriting the kernel from scratch and expecting the firt release to be prefect... come on people. M$ is making NT do things it wasnt supposed like DirectX.
On the other hand you can quite whining and use a real server OS like FreeBSD.
I guess they don't know the reliability that a UNIX box has.
Eh, every OS is crushable. I used to run a NT box for my home server, it BSOD once,right after I set it up, I never knew why. But yes, I did reboot the bitch about once a month, it didn't exactly need it, but it started getting really slow after a while. I think it could have been this program I wrote that was running, it was my first attempt at COM and I'm pretty sure it was doing something nasty.
But the thing is, all OS have problems. I run FreeBSD for my home server now and it's already crash once. I was running lpmud and it decided to fork() like made. Not exactly a BSOD, but there wasn't much I could do but reboot... btw, I now know how to prevent that.
An ever better example is what happened to yahoo, buy.com, ebay etc.. they all run whatever OS and they all got taken to the hole, it's not the OS's fast so much, just the situation's it can't handle..
This is getting a little ranty.
I think that it is only a matter of time that Linux can overtake NT
A point I haven't heard anyone mention is that for the last year or so Microsoft has been saying Windows NT5/2000 will be out tomorrow so you might want to hold off on more NT 4 boxes. It will be VERY interesting next year to see if Windows 2000 can keep up with Linux's growth.
Not to be a Linux zealot or anything
because you are right? i run linux (suse & redhat), win2k, win98 and freeBSD. it's good to be open minded.
Btw: I run Win2k at home and at work (I work for da' man), it's it crashed on my once, it was REALLY weird I was just moving my mouse around, or something. And the bitch rebooted.... I think it has something to do with my video card driver (for a ATI rage btw), because I get lots off fragments.. links in IE typically don't show up. stuff like that...
from the looks of it this is basically FreeBSD with some nifty patches on top. i'm no guru, but the impression i get is it lets the admin configure how much load to give out for each process. for instance they have a mod for apache so mr. root can give priority to one virtual host over the other. some other features on the site include..
hierarchical proportional-share cpu, disk and link schedulers,
the/reserv file system providing an API to manipulate "reservations",
a tagging mechanism for the association of reservations with schedulable operations.
to install the sucker you have to already have FreeBSD 3.4 -CURRENT and it installs on top of that. i assume the choose FreeBSD due to it's good SMB support. -Jon
I have to say I'm a little disappointed. As everyone already knows Yahoo runs on FreeBSD, it's always been my impression that this OS is very hard to bring down. But even the best OS's have a weak link.
Anyone still remember that linux vs. NT security thing a few months back. And when linux lost it was due to a banner add program, nothing to do with the actual OS? I bet it's something like that. Buffer overflow on a custom port of BIND or something like that.
It just goes to show, no matter how big you are, what OS you run, who runs you're network. If someone really wants to the can take you to the hole. All they have to do is not give up. They'll find something eventually.
Funny I think microsoft.com's never been down or hacked, however I understand they have like 3 mirror's of the whole site on a hot swap, so if it did get hack we would never see anything.
Open source software will fail? How will it fail? Its not a company
momentum my friend. can Communism Fail? can Love Fail? yes. it's not about the money. it's about who's doing it.
Think about things a little more.... if not, just go install Windows 2000 and enjoy yourself!
I am witting this on Win2k, it still has problems but a lot better then NT or 98. but just so you know i like to shop around, I am running Win98, Win2k, Redhat 6.2, and FreeBSD for my server. -Jon btw: you made a lot of good points, i'm just to lazy to get into a debate.
i was discussing this with a friend of mine the day. My other option is that open source software is fundamentally poor.
here are some facts:
linux is a great OS, true. but is a direct rip of the research efforts of AT&T. it is not a great open source design.
there are only a handful of quality software, namely: sendmail, apache, BIND, and a list of others that have been under development since the dark ages.
if you look at freshmeat, you will find that most of the projects are in beta, or alpha. they do not claim to be high quality.
my personal belief is that people are jumping to open source as a way to show there disgust for Microsoft. why do people hate Microsoft? because there rich. for instance, Americans do not hate Canadians. but a lot of Canadians hate Americans.. as a matter of fact most of the world has a poor view of the states. basally its human nature not to like your "rich neighbor".
another reason open source software is poor is the lack of incentive to do the "un sexy work" i remember just the other day Linus (yes Linus) saying "the problem is, we need people to do the unsexy work". that's what makes real "quality software". does anyone honestly belive something like Windows 2000 could have come out of an open source project? no way! there would be lots of loose ends where the work would not have been that much fun.
however, in the next ten years or so i think something will kill Microsoft, and there will be another OS that takes up 90% of the home market. it might be linux, i really don't know. but if you look at the history of consumer computer technology you will see that monopolies rule. for instance, look at the evolution of the floppy drive, first it's 8 (and something), then 5 1/2, then 3 1/4. and every time, one floppy was "it".
look at LP, to tapes, to CD's. or VHS, to DVD. or the 3dfx to TNT.. one tech must rule.
the way i see it the "Next Big Thing" will be "a server in every home". linux and it's flavors are a good choice. that could be a catalyst that takes it to the future.
i also see the open source failing miserably after it peaks. which is going back to my first point, that open source software is of poor quality. eventually another company will rise and dominate, much like Microsoft.
One of my most fund memories when I was learning program was flipping through a book full of obfuscated c contest winners (I forget the name of the book). The interesting thing about the book is about half contest entrees, and the rest we're tips on how to write good C.
Many people will argue that this contest is a bad thing(tm), but I think without seeing totally unreadable code it's harder to appreciate truly beautiful code.
My all time favorite was a program that solved the 8 queens problem in the while condition of a for loop.
About 2 weeks ago we moved over from NT to BSD, I'm sure you're thinking didn't you think of linux first? Of course we did, my roommate and I both run linux on our personal boxes. But we wanted to try it out.
Here we're our initial reasons:
The name BSD "feels" more like a REAL server I'd head that it can handle mass load, e.i. hotmail, yahoo
Not much to go on...
So we installed the puppy and found it actually easier to get up and running then a linux box, the port collection is dreamy, all the files we're pretty right where you'd expect them. it's just very simple and logically laid out, with no extra crap thrown in.
So now that it's been two weeks I've found
I don't know jack about being a unix sys admin Fork() is a very dangerous thing (lpmud was crashing the box due to a infinite fork) Perl scripts rule Sendmail is a bitch, bind is it's horny cuisine
Linux has more apps, BSD has less crap. Nuff said.
A friend of mines first language was perl. I think it may have fucked him over a little due to all the tricky ass shit one can pull. His code was teeming with hug regexp that took him 2 hours to debug.
Personally I think BASIC is a great language to learn first.. or python perhaps, languages that don't have a lot of nifty stuff and weird rules. Just basic variables, functions and objects.
I've been trying to learn perl on and off for a few months, the most troubling thing I find about it is it's ability to let one do things so many ways, it's hard to know the rules, when there are so many of them. For instance I spent about 2 hours trying to figure out how to find out if a file was a directory of not. By reading the camel book and some "black perl ninja book" I found two ways..
Use stat() and do something like a mode & 50000 on it Or try opening the file as a directory and see if it croaks.
Just wishing I had a function like "IsDir()", I hack out the stat() one. Then my roommate comes home and says
"oh you just do if (-d $var)" "no fuckin way", I say in disbelief. "ya you didn't know that?", he says "I looked all over the place for that... fuck!"
now in C or C++ the "language" doesn't have anything for this. You need to use a library. And depending on what library you're using it will have a way for doing this, but the important point is that if you know stdio.h, over iostream.h ether is fine. But you'll get to know that "school" and life will be good. In BASIC the language provides ONE way of accomplishing the goal, it may not be everything you want it to be, but it works and life's still ok.
For a experienced perl programmer at the end of the day he/she will use what's more convenient, which is good. But for someone who's learning the ropes it can be exasperating.
I firmly believe that CE is not dead by a long shot. The palmOS clones however do appear to be dead.
I don't think you really understand the concept of an embedded OS. The idea is you can put a little portable OS into virtually any piece of hardware (car, tv, toaster, etc..). this is one place where CE does very well. it's a well designed modern OS with a lot of Win32 compatibly. It can run DirectX (i.e. dreamcast), SQL Server, IIS and pretty much anything else. Also it is easy to develop for; you can write apps in VB, MS C++, etc..
Linux is also well suited in this position; typically in the world of computers "there can be only one(tm)", it will be interesting to see what happens.
I'm a little late in the game here so I guess I can say whatever I want and not get my karma smashed... that's just the way it works here at/.
Don't you dumb-asses realize if you switched around what they said about Win2k and Redhat you just couldn't stop whine about an entirely different set of bullshit. All you can see is the fact that the extension of you're penis (aka linux) isn't hailed as the new god.
Personally I don't think Redhat is a very good server *nix. I run FreeBSD at home and am much happier. But anyways... didn't anyone notice that they didn't mention what version of Win2k they we're reviewing!?!? The only version that's even RTM'd is Win2k professional; if they have the not-out-of-beta more-hard-core versions it's not really fair to even review them comparatively.
Then again I would guesstamet that 80% of linux software is still in beta, so what does that say?
I'm not going to get into what OS I think is better, being a REAL geek I realize that every OS has it's strong points and weak points. Personally I think redhat is a unix trying to be windows, I mean it's sotra thought of as a desktop OS, which it IS NOT. It's a Server OS trying to be a desktop OS, which means two crappy windows clones (KDE, and Gnome) and a bunch of flashy garbage (aka enlightenment) to make you forget that you can't copy and paste between netscape and pine. (arg..)
All you guys care about is nit picking, "it doesn't seem to me redhat came in last", "oh look, they don't know what there doing", "windows sucks #include ". PLEASE!!! And what the fuck are you stupid moderators doing, marking that stupid shit up?! it's not informative, it's not insightful, it's just plain childish.
Anyway, I shut wanted to tell you linux freaks the shut the fuck up and get off the pot.
While working at MS I got to check out something their working on at research, IP. Intentional Programming. it's sort of like current programming taken to the next level of abstraction. It's also what Charles Simonyi (a.k.a father of Hungarian notation) it working on...
on another tip, the validity of compiled languages in most application scenarios is diminishing. With the web becoming the user interface of choice almost all programming will be done in script, on the client and the server. The only place for compiled code will be for the OS and server type applications. This doesn't leave much room for a barrage of compiled languages.
I think my favorite quote is "AOL can reduce a perfectly good computer system to a paperweight," it seems the PM's at AOL are making decisions like a bunch of arrogant 13 year olds. Not only are they NIH (Not Invented Here), but there also KOI (kill other inventions).. ok I made that last one up.. but it makes sense.
I mean why don't they stop fucking around and just make their own proprietary hardware and OS? They obviously want to at this point. Then they could keep Microsoft's dirty hands off their 20 million (or whatever) IM subscribers, keep their beloved customers from installing anything but AOL. It's pretty obvious from this act that that's what they really want.
I don't think the internet will be a defining factor in presidential candidates until most voters get most of their information from the net. the majority of voters are made up of the older portion of our population, these people are also less likely to use the internet.
So within 30 years, the internet will be more important then TV in who gets voted.
Or course in 30 years TV will probably be on the net:)
funny you mention that theory, it worked out for Coka-Cola(tm) in the 80's with "New Coke", when everyone despised it they decided to re-release the old sk00l coke under the handle "Cola-Cola Classic". in the end the Coka-Cola corporation looked the like good guys.
personally i don't think enough people give a damm about this to compare the two however.
WARNING OFFTOPIC BRAIN FART the fox site looks awful foxy, such fanfare, etc.. i'm kind of suprised they even got it to work under netscape, Y2k is coming up and i'm really wondering if slashdot is going to have a headline like, "linux is Y2k compliant, apparently....". oh and the only reason i use X is to browse the web, i wish i didn't have to load the fat bastard just to wank off to some pics or read the news. if mozzila would have X statically linked or something, that would rule..... oh and if any of you use a sblive the latest CRV from creative is pretty darn good, 4 speaker and mixer support... yum..
Slashdot Mirror
DirectX like many microsoft API have been ported (with limitations) to CE. Even IIS and SQL Server 7 have some support under CE.
if you've even looked at MSDN you'll notice a table under each WinAPI section.
Win16: no
Win95: yes
WinNT: yes
WinCE: yes.
looks a lot like that.
-Jon
whoever the fuck moderated that down is a MORON! look at the thread is started. anything worth that debate is worth looking at.
it wasn't anti-GPL, wasn't anti-OpenSource all i said was "try to see this guys view" and NO you couldn't do that. everyone who flamed me couldn't see that, couldn't bare to even think it.
every man trys to do "good", whats best for him may hurt others, but that's STILL GOOD FOR HIM. personally, ya, i agree. he's a dumbass. but you still should try to se his side of it.
this place is full of very inteligant people, unfortantly, at times. and in certain threads you can be very closed minded.
-Jon
to all of the replies.
I know it's not the best analogy. It's just the best I could come up with during my lunch break., but thank you for the constructive criticism.
Do I think this guys doing "the right thing"? NO, can I see his side? Why he's doing what he's doing, yeah maybe. At least I'M TRYIING.
EVERYONE here is just singing a long, kill the non-GPL, burn the Microsoft. Etc.. RELIZE everyone has a story to tell, for fairness, it's important to tell all sides of the story.
I know if I was in his place, I would feel somewhat compelled perform the same actions. I just don't think I would, I don't have the balls.
-Jon
Try to see this guys side of it.
Think of it as you find some foster kid. He's really cute and sweet, so you take her home, feed her well. And in a few years she's really grown on you. Your so proud of what you've done. You can't think of every letting her go.
She's the best in class, smartest and prettiest, everyone loves here.
Then the foster care place comes marching a long with a bunch of angry lawyers and the real father of this child (carmack) and demands you give her back to the foster home, and they show you this think called a GPL, and how is says you could only borrow the kid, not keep her.
Sure you can visit, hell even live in the foster care, but knowing everyone and there dogs going to want a piece or your little girl, it's just not right.
-Jon
check out opensource.creative.com
it works OK, although still in beta.
-Jon
wat really pisses me off is now when i actually WANT the real DeCSS it's going to be harder for ME to find.
:)
there's already a million REAL copies out there, i don't see how this really improves things.
however, it is a clever idea
-Jon
linux is just a kernel, win2k is IIS, MMC, COM, Win32, DNS, oh and a kernel.
and they have more bugs, ya think?
-Jon
Now when Win2K hits the public it will go through this aby period where new bugs will be found and service packs will be realeased, if you dont like the number of bugs then wait till a souple of SPs have come out, and the codebase evens out. Win2k is a huge step for M$, and there is a lot of new stuff, you will have to expect some bug. It is akin the linux rewriting the kernel from scratch and expecting the firt release to be prefect ... come on people. M$ is making NT do things it wasnt supposed like DirectX.
On the other hand you can quite whining and use a real server OS like FreeBSD.
Oh well bring on the flames... :)
Eh, every OS is crushable. I used to run a NT box for my home server, it BSOD once ,right after I set it up, I never knew why. But yes, I did reboot the bitch about once a month, it didn't exactly need it, but it started getting really slow after a while. I think it could have been this program I wrote that was running, it was my first attempt at COM and I'm pretty sure it was doing something nasty.
But the thing is, all OS have problems. I run FreeBSD for my home server now and it's already crash once. I was running lpmud and it decided to fork() like made. Not exactly a BSOD, but there wasn't much I could do but reboot... btw, I now know how to prevent that.
An ever better example is what happened to yahoo, buy.com, ebay etc.. they all run whatever OS and they all got taken to the hole, it's not the OS's fast so much, just the situation's it can't handle..
This is getting a little ranty.
I think that it is only a matter of time that Linux can overtake NT
A point I haven't heard anyone mention is that for the last year or so Microsoft has been saying Windows NT5/2000 will be out tomorrow so you might want to hold off on more NT 4 boxes. It will be VERY interesting next year to see if Windows 2000 can keep up with Linux's growth.
Not to be a Linux zealot or anything
because you are right? i run linux (suse & redhat), win2k, win98 and freeBSD. it's good to be open minded.
Btw: I run Win2k at home and at work (I work for da' man), it's it crashed on my once, it was REALLY weird I was just moving my mouse around, or something. And the bitch rebooted.... I think it has something to do with my video card driver (for a ATI rage btw), because I get lots off fragments.. links in IE typically don't show up. stuff like that...
-Jon
hierarchical proportional-share cpu, disk and link schedulers,
the /reserv file system providing an API to manipulate "reservations",
a tagging mechanism for the association of reservations with schedulable operations.
to install the sucker you have to already have FreeBSD 3.4 -CURRENT and it installs on top of that. i assume the choose FreeBSD due to it's good SMB support. -Jon
I have to say I'm a little disappointed. As everyone already knows Yahoo runs on FreeBSD, it's always been my impression that this OS is very hard to bring down. But even the best OS's have a weak link.
Anyone still remember that linux vs. NT security thing a few months back. And when linux lost it was due to a banner add program, nothing to do with the actual OS? I bet it's something like that. Buffer overflow on a custom port of BIND or something like that.
It just goes to show, no matter how big you are, what OS you run, who runs you're network. If someone really wants to the can take you to the hole. All they have to do is not give up. They'll find something eventually.
Funny I think microsoft.com's never been down or hacked, however I understand they have like 3 mirror's of the whole site on a hot swap, so if it did get hack we would never see anything.
-Jon
momentum my friend. can Communism Fail? can Love Fail? yes. it's not about the money. it's about who's doing it.
Think about things a little more.... if not, just go install Windows 2000 and enjoy yourself!
I am witting this on Win2k, it still has problems but a lot better then NT or 98. but just so you know i like to shop around, I am running Win98, Win2k, Redhat 6.2, and FreeBSD for my server. -Jon btw: you made a lot of good points, i'm just to lazy to get into a debate.
i was discussing this with a friend of mine the day. My other option is that open source software is fundamentally poor.
here are some facts:
linux is a great OS, true. but is a direct rip of the research efforts of AT&T. it is not a great open source design.
there are only a handful of quality software, namely: sendmail, apache, BIND, and a list of others that have been under development since the dark ages.
if you look at freshmeat, you will find that most of the projects are in beta, or alpha. they do not claim to be high quality.
my personal belief is that people are jumping to open source as a way to show there disgust for Microsoft. why do people hate Microsoft? because there rich. for instance, Americans do not hate Canadians. but a lot of Canadians hate Americans.. as a matter of fact most of the world has a poor view of the states. basally its human nature not to like your "rich neighbor".
another reason open source software is poor is the lack of incentive to do the "un sexy work" i remember just the other day Linus (yes Linus) saying "the problem is, we need people to do the unsexy work". that's what makes real "quality software". does anyone honestly belive something like Windows 2000 could have come out of an open source project? no way! there would be lots of loose ends where the work would not have been that much fun.
however, in the next ten years or so i think something will kill Microsoft, and there will be another OS that takes up 90% of the home market. it might be linux, i really don't know. but if you look at the history of consumer computer technology you will see that monopolies rule. for instance, look at the evolution of the floppy drive, first it's 8 (and something), then 5 1/2, then 3 1/4. and every time, one floppy was "it".
look at LP, to tapes, to CD's. or VHS, to DVD. or the 3dfx to TNT.. one tech must rule.
the way i see it the "Next Big Thing" will be "a server in every home". linux and it's flavors are a good choice. that could be a catalyst that takes it to the future.
i also see the open source failing miserably after it peaks. which is going back to my first point, that open source software is of poor quality. eventually another company will rise and dominate, much like Microsoft.
-Jon
One of my most fund memories when I was learning program was flipping through a book full of obfuscated c contest winners (I forget the name of the book). The interesting thing about the book is about half contest entrees, and the rest we're tips on how to write good C.
,x=x=^; x*u*y*t!!==x%dh^h=7;x!t
Many people will argue that this contest is a bad thing(tm), but I think without seeing totally unreadable code it's harder to appreciate truly beautiful code.
My all time favorite was a program that solved the 8 queens problem in the while condition of a for loop.
It looked *something* like this..
for(i=zx=
f+d^q*df*&g==m&c-=44(x=5%b;
g=&g=*b!b%t^l=h&g!g^==0;x++)
;
I love the semicolon on it's own line
About 2 weeks ago we moved over from NT to BSD, I'm sure you're thinking didn't you think of linux first? Of course we did, my roommate and I both run linux on our personal boxes. But we wanted to try it out.
Here we're our initial reasons:
The name BSD "feels" more like a REAL server
I'd head that it can handle mass load, e.i. hotmail, yahoo
Not much to go on...
So we installed the puppy and found it actually easier to get up and running then a linux box, the port collection is dreamy, all the files we're pretty right where you'd expect them. it's just very simple and logically laid out, with no extra crap thrown in.
So now that it's been two weeks I've found
I don't know jack about being a unix sys admin
Fork() is a very dangerous thing (lpmud was crashing the box due to a infinite fork)
Perl scripts rule
Sendmail is a bitch, bind is it's horny cuisine
Linux has more apps, BSD has less crap. Nuff said.
-Jon
A friend of mines first language was perl. I think it may have fucked him over a little due to all the tricky ass shit one can pull. His code was teeming with hug regexp that took him 2 hours to debug.
Personally I think BASIC is a great language to learn first.. or python perhaps, languages that don't have a lot of nifty stuff and weird rules. Just basic variables, functions and objects.
I've been trying to learn perl on and off for a few months, the most troubling thing I find about it is it's ability to let one do things so many ways, it's hard to know the rules, when there are so many of them. For instance I spent about 2 hours trying to figure out how to find out if a file was a directory of not. By reading the camel book and some "black perl ninja book" I found two ways..
Use stat() and do something like a mode & 50000 on it
Or try opening the file as a directory and see if it croaks.
Just wishing I had a function like "IsDir()", I hack out the stat() one. Then my roommate comes home and says
"oh you just do if (-d $var)"
"no fuckin way", I say in disbelief.
"ya you didn't know that?", he says
"I looked all over the place for that... fuck!"
now in C or C++ the "language" doesn't have anything for this. You need to use a library. And depending on what library you're using it will have a way for doing this, but the important point is that if you know stdio.h, over iostream.h ether is fine. But you'll get to know that "school" and life will be good. In BASIC the language provides ONE way of accomplishing the goal, it may not be everything you want it to be, but it works and life's still ok.
For a experienced perl programmer at the end of the day he/she will use what's more convenient, which is good. But for someone who's learning the ropes it can be exasperating.
-Jon
tell microsoft ce's dead
Microsoft's Windows CE Page
I firmly believe that CE is not dead by a long shot. The palmOS clones however do appear to be dead.
I don't think you really understand the concept of an embedded OS. The idea is you can put a little portable OS into virtually any piece of hardware (car, tv, toaster, etc..). this is one place where CE does very well. it's a well designed modern OS with a lot of Win32 compatibly. It can run DirectX (i.e. dreamcast), SQL Server, IIS and pretty much anything else. Also it is easy to develop for; you can write apps in VB, MS C++, etc..
Linux is also well suited in this position; typically in the world of computers "there can be only one(tm)", it will be interesting to see what happens.
-Jon
I'm a little late in the game here so I guess I can say whatever I want and not get my karma smashed... that's just the way it works here at /.
Don't you dumb-asses realize if you switched around what they said about Win2k and Redhat you just couldn't stop whine about an entirely different set of bullshit. All you can see is the fact that the extension of you're penis (aka linux) isn't hailed as the new god.
Personally I don't think Redhat is a very good server *nix. I run FreeBSD at home and am much happier. But anyways... didn't anyone notice that they didn't mention what version of Win2k they we're reviewing!?!? The only version that's even RTM'd is Win2k professional; if they have the not-out-of-beta more-hard-core versions it's not really fair to even review them comparatively.
Then again I would guesstamet that 80% of linux software is still in beta, so what does that say?
I'm not going to get into what OS I think is better, being a REAL geek I realize that every OS has it's strong points and weak points. Personally I think redhat is a unix trying to be windows, I mean it's sotra thought of as a desktop OS, which it IS NOT. It's a Server OS trying to be a desktop OS, which means two crappy windows clones (KDE, and Gnome) and a bunch of flashy garbage (aka enlightenment) to make you forget that you can't copy and paste between netscape and pine. (arg..)
All you guys care about is nit picking, "it doesn't seem to me redhat came in last", "oh look, they don't know what there doing", "windows sucks #include ". PLEASE!!! And what the fuck are you stupid moderators doing, marking that stupid shit up?! it's not informative, it's not insightful, it's just plain childish.
Anyway, I shut wanted to tell you linux freaks the shut the fuck up and get off the pot.
-Jon
on another tip, the validity of compiled languages in most application scenarios is diminishing. With the web becoming the user interface of choice almost all programming will be done in script, on the client and the server. The only place for compiled code will be for the OS and server type applications. This doesn't leave much room for a barrage of compiled languages.
-Jon
I think my favorite quote is "AOL can reduce a perfectly good computer system to a paperweight," it seems the PM's at AOL are making decisions like a bunch of arrogant 13 year olds. Not only are they NIH (Not Invented Here), but there also KOI (kill other inventions).. ok I made that last one up.. but it makes sense.
I mean why don't they stop fucking around and just make their own proprietary hardware and OS? They obviously want to at this point. Then they could keep Microsoft's dirty hands off their 20 million (or whatever) IM subscribers, keep their beloved customers from installing anything but AOL. It's pretty obvious from this act that that's what they really want.
-Jon
I don't think the internet will be a defining factor in presidential candidates until most voters get most of their information from the net. the majority of voters are made up of the older portion of our population, these people are also less likely to use the internet.
:)
So within 30 years, the internet will be more important then TV in who gets voted.
Or course in 30 years TV will probably be on the net
-Jon
strange as of 6:30pm pacific time i see zero bids.
-Jon
damm i was going to point the "49 days, 17:02m" for windows*.
my old works NT server hasn't been down for over a 2 years.. and it's running all that MS crap, SQL, Exchange, DNS, IIS, etc...
very skewed stuff.
-Jon
funny you mention that theory, it worked out for Coka-Cola(tm) in the 80's with "New Coke", when everyone despised it they decided to re-release the old sk00l
coke under the handle "Cola-Cola Classic". in the end the Coka-Cola corporation looked the like good guys.
personally i don't think enough people give a damm about this to compare the two however.
WARNING OFFTOPIC BRAIN FART
the fox site looks awful foxy, such fanfare, etc.. i'm kind of suprised they even got it to work under netscape, Y2k is coming up and i'm really wondering if slashdot
is going to have a headline like, "linux is Y2k compliant, apparently....". oh and the only reason i use X is to browse the web, i wish i didn't have to load the fat
bastard just to wank off to some pics or read the news. if mozzila would have X statically linked or something, that would rule..... oh and if any of you use a sblive
the latest CRV from creative is pretty darn good, 4 speaker and mixer support... yum..
-Jon