feedback, thanks for your reply to my post... You raised some great points and in my opinion, posted the most intelligent response so far... perhaps caldera has it's place among linux users after all?:)
Afterstep is easy, fast, and intuitive for newbies... Your dad will really like it... Afterstep is what I used when I was learning about GUI for Linux.
Intel knows how to pick winners, that's why they chose Red Hat and Turbolinux... They seem to have the Midas touch with companies, and since Turbolinux seems to own the Chinese and Japanese Linux markets as well as being the distribution of choice for cluster management servers, Intel and Turbolinux stand to make a lot of money on Linux... Red Hat too... being the dominant (and they're dominant for a reason... they're damn good at what they do) in the United STates is a green light to Intel.
Fortunately, Caldera and SuSE don't have much going for them, both in terms of innovation, popularity, and quality of product... Between the two distributions I can only think of one good thing... i.e. Caldera's GUI installer... Lots of people i've talked to don't like SuSE because it's a bloated distribution full of 5CDs worth of stuff you'll never use.... Sure you could get a new hard disk and put it all on, but who does that kind of thing?
Red Hat 6.0/6.1 and Turbolinux are elegant distributions... They include enough software to give their customers choice, yet keep it within a tolerable range to eliminate bloat (maybe SUSE can learn a lesson here)...
Distribution on Disc 1 Source Code on Disc 2 Applications on Disc 3
This is the way to make a distribution people will love and use.. and Red Hat and Turbolinux have accomplished that... That is why they are both serious contenders and spark the interest of bigtime investors.
Another reason why Red Hat and Turbolinux are better than, say, Caldera, is that they don't force KDE down their users' throats... Users of Red Hat and Turbolinux can install a variety of window managers, and switching between them is like a walk in the park... This gives the customer a chance to "test drive" different GUIs before making a decision on what to use.
Personally when I go shopping for stuff that costs money... I like to compare and contrast between different products before I take out my wallet...
Caldera just plops down a Quickmart in you neighborhood and bulldozes the other supermarkers and costco/priceclubs so you only have one well to drink from... This is not the way to be a successful Linux distribution.. A GUI installer is not enough... People need choices and options... Take those away and you're bound to fail and be left behind by those distributions that recognize the freedom of choice as an important deciding factor in the purchase of a Linux distribution.
Way to go Red Hat... Kudos to Turbolinux! You deserve the investments and strong partnerships because your products speak for themselves.
Which leaves a lot about Caldera that I don't like:
no choice of GUI, you're stuck with KDE, like it or not...
no pico, a good console editor for newbies and html editing
targeting of windows users instead of catering to the open source linux-loving community
poor selection of included packages
obsolete GUI design philosophy
pushes for standards and stasis, instead of freedom of choice and true innovation (GTK, GNOME, Bonobo)
Like I said, the installer is great... but once the other distributions have pretty GUI installers, there will be no more reason to use Caldera, unless of course, you are so indecisive that the concept of choice and trying new things scares you.
Web browsers can indeed be 100% GPL>.. my team of developers is working on one as we speak.. and when we have something ready to show, we'll turn it over to the open source community to see what we can do to make Guido even better.
I think you've misquoted Miguel, but if he did say that, provide me with a primary source document that will prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that an Anonymous Coward like you is telling the truth.
I remember Miguel being quoted in MIT's Technology Review as saying something like "windows did some things right"... but never did I hear him say "I want to be Windows"... Your error, no matter how minor you think it to be, could be a complete misrepresentation of how Miguel really feels... If you want the final verdict, why not ask Miguel himself to post his official position on GNOME..
On another note, someone said KDE is stable??? I'd like to set up another GUI crash-a-thon and show the world how easy it is to crash KDE... KDE is just plain crap when it comes to stability, and it has heavier hardware requirements by default.
GNOME, on the other hand, runs over an independent windowmanager, and when we were finally able to crash GNOME (it took us over five times as long to crash GNOME as it did to crash KDE), the Enlightenment window manager was still there.. all we had to do was "ps ax", kill off all the phantom processes, and open up an xterm and type "panel &"... GNOME was back... try that with KDE!
Justin Cheung
Gnuidea Software, Santa Cruz Penguin Computing, San Francisco http://www.penguincomputing.com
so tell me, Anonymous Coward... what does that mean? Yes, I work for Penguin and am damn proud to be affiliated with the company.. We're doing some cool things other people are not doing, but our support for open source software has not changed. We are committed to pushing open source, as much as we can.
There was no sarcasm intended... I am not going to pursue developing anything like XFree... I am committed to working on Guido and Firecracker first, then perhaps spending some serious time on Waimea... I'm sorry if my post was ambiguous. Again, I wasn't being sarcastic... I agree with your statement and AM NOT going to pursue working on a GPL re-write of XFree
Yes, it's about the freedom of choice... You can choose to disclose your identity, and stand behind your flames, or you can choose, like you've shown us all, to post as "Anonymous Coward". so what's it gonna be? Oh and if you gutless script kiddies were thinking of breaking into my site, please do so by all means... and while you're inside, please enjoy the landmines and trojan horses, especially the ones that look and feel like the real thing.
Thanks for your advice! I'll put my efforts into designing good software and allowing the open source community to contribute at as early as stage (in product development) as I can... Take care, and best regards,
There is significant fragmentation in the Linux community, but that is not a bad thing... People have different opinions, whims, and design philosophies... It's all a part of the Linux culture and not something that should be looked at with a negative spin.
It's curious how a little web-bitch like you can be such an asshole sitting hiding behind your computer, safe at home... If you'd like to say that to my face like a real man, meet me at the Seabright Brewery any Tueday night, Santa Cruz, anytime so we can see who's the real idiot. I think i could decide in a minute whether to buy you a beer and be cool, or bitch-slap you for being such an asshole.
ruud writes: "why invent yet another encryption algorithm if there are already lots of strong algorithms out there?"
I'm doing it because I love mathematics and it is not just my algorithm, it will be a community effort to work on crypto design. IF you're not interested in working on it, that's your problem... I am not going to demand that anyone use Waimea... stream ciphers are special, and this is merely my project. You don't have to like it, or use it.
"Why should I trust your algorithm to be secure?"
You don't have to. It's your choice to trust or not to trust, based on your analysis of the Waimea source code and binaries... It doesn't sound like you're interested in using, or contributing to the Waimea project anyway. Again, (I shouldn't have to reiterate this, but you seem to be making lots of assumptions about me and about the Waimea project) I am not pushing any of this on anyone!... People have the choice to download, or not to download... to develop, or not to develop... to buy the box set, or not to buy the box set... It's all about choice, and if you're not interested, then choose not to become involved. I make no claims of producing the best stream cipher ever... I am just trying my hand at design and development and with the help of the open source community and the right crypto people, things could work out nice for Waimea.
Good point... However, since I'm not doing a distribution of Linux, i'll leave the X11/XFree86 issues up to the appropriate parties. Gnuidea software will be 100% GPL.
But since you mentioned it, I was wondering if you think re-writing XFree as 100% GPL software would be a good thing. What are your thoughts on writing a GPL Xserver from scratch that would handle current needs and demands?
Bill, I'm heading to bed so I can get some sleep before Latin class (meets monday, 11AM pacific, right now it's a quarter to 5AM:) hehe.. so I hope to talk to you later... you can always e-mail me if you want: justin@penguincomputing.com
You are absolutely correct... I will submit the Gnuidea design ideas for Waimea to professionals like Bruce Schneier of Counterpane Systems for review and will GPL everything so people can point out all my flaws and hopefully, in time, we can make something really really good.
Slashdot Mirror
feedback, thanks for your reply to my post... You raised some great points and in my opinion, posted the most intelligent response so far... perhaps caldera has it's place among linux users after all? :)
best regards,
Justin
I am also in agreement
Afterstep is easy, fast, and intuitive for newbies... Your dad will really like it... Afterstep is what I used when I was learning about GUI for Linux.
Try Red Hat 6.1, it has the best GUI for newbies and a simple installation program.
Intel knows how to pick winners, that's why they chose Red Hat and Turbolinux... They seem to have the Midas touch with companies, and since Turbolinux seems to own the Chinese and Japanese Linux markets as well as being the distribution of choice for cluster management servers, Intel and Turbolinux stand to make a lot of money on Linux... Red Hat too... being the dominant (and they're dominant for a reason... they're damn good at what they do) in the United STates is a green light to Intel.
Fortunately, Caldera and SuSE don't have much going for them, both in terms of innovation, popularity, and quality of product... Between the two distributions I can only think of one good thing... i.e. Caldera's GUI installer... Lots of people i've talked to don't like SuSE because it's a bloated distribution full of 5CDs worth of stuff you'll never use.... Sure you could get a new hard disk and put it all on, but who does that kind of thing?
Red Hat 6.0/6.1 and Turbolinux are elegant distributions... They include enough software to give their customers choice, yet keep it within a tolerable range to eliminate bloat (maybe SUSE can learn a lesson here)...
Distribution on Disc 1
Source Code on Disc 2
Applications on Disc 3
This is the way to make a distribution people will love and use.. and Red Hat and Turbolinux have accomplished that... That is why they are both serious contenders and spark the interest of bigtime investors.
Another reason why Red Hat and Turbolinux are better than, say, Caldera, is that they don't force KDE down their users' throats... Users of Red Hat and Turbolinux can install a variety of window managers, and switching between them is like a walk in the park... This gives the customer a chance to "test drive" different GUIs before making a decision on what to use.
Personally when I go shopping for stuff that costs money... I like to compare and contrast between different products before I take out my wallet...
Caldera just plops down a Quickmart in you neighborhood and bulldozes the other supermarkers and costco/priceclubs so you only have one well to drink from... This is not the way to be a successful Linux distribution.. A GUI installer is not enough... People need choices and options... Take those away and you're bound to fail and be left behind by those distributions that recognize the freedom of choice as an important deciding factor in the purchase of a Linux distribution.
Way to go Red Hat... Kudos to Turbolinux! You deserve the investments and strong partnerships because your products speak for themselves.
Justin
There's one thing about Caldera that I like:
it's installer
Which leaves a lot about Caldera that I don't like:
no choice of GUI, you're stuck with KDE,
like it or not...
no pico, a good console editor for
newbies and html editing
targeting of windows users instead of
catering to the open source
linux-loving community
poor selection of included packages
obsolete GUI design philosophy
pushes for standards and stasis, instead
of freedom of choice and true
innovation (GTK, GNOME, Bonobo)
Like I said, the installer is great... but once the other distributions have pretty GUI installers, there will be no more reason to use Caldera, unless of course, you are so indecisive that the concept of choice and trying new things scares you.
Justin
Web browsers can indeed be 100% GPL>.. my team of developers is working on one as we speak.. and when we have something ready to show, we'll turn it over to the open source community to see what we can do to make Guido even better.
Justin Cheung
Founder and Vice-Penguin, Gnuidea Software
Open Source Dude, Penguin Computing
http://www.penguincomputing.com
I think you've misquoted Miguel, but if he did say that, provide me with a primary source document that will prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that an Anonymous Coward like you is telling the truth.
I remember Miguel being quoted in MIT's Technology Review as saying something like "windows did some things right"... but never did I hear him say "I want to be Windows"... Your error, no matter how minor you think it to be, could be a complete misrepresentation of how Miguel really feels... If you want the final verdict, why not ask Miguel himself to post his official position on GNOME..
On another note, someone said KDE is stable??? I'd like to set up another GUI crash-a-thon and show the world how easy it is to crash KDE... KDE is just plain crap when it comes to stability, and it has heavier hardware requirements by default.
GNOME, on the other hand, runs over an independent windowmanager, and when we were finally able to crash GNOME (it took us over five times as long to crash GNOME as it did to crash KDE), the Enlightenment window manager was still there.. all we had to do was "ps ax", kill off all the phantom processes, and open up an xterm and type "panel &"... GNOME was back... try that with KDE!
Justin Cheung
Gnuidea Software, Santa Cruz
Penguin Computing, San Francisco
http://www.penguincomputing.com
so tell me, Anonymous Coward... what does that mean? Yes, I work for Penguin and am damn proud to be affiliated with the company.. We're doing some cool things other people are not doing, but our support for open source software has not changed. We are committed to pushing open source, as much as we can.
There was no sarcasm intended... I am not going to pursue developing anything like XFree... I am committed to working on Guido and Firecracker first, then perhaps spending some serious time on Waimea... I'm sorry if my post was ambiguous. Again, I wasn't being sarcastic... I agree with your statement and AM NOT going to pursue working on a GPL re-write of XFree
Take care,
Justin
Yes, it's about the freedom of choice... You can choose to disclose your identity, and stand behind your flames, or you can choose, like you've shown us all, to post as "Anonymous Coward". so what's it gonna be? Oh and if you gutless script kiddies were thinking of breaking into my site, please do so by all means... and while you're inside, please enjoy the landmines and trojan horses, especially the ones that look and feel like the real thing.
Your pal Justin =)
Thanks for your advice! I'll put my efforts into designing good software and allowing the open source community to contribute at as early as stage (in product development) as I can... Take care, and best regards,
Justin
I'd like to see the source code for the Wanker remover program you're writing... I think you may really have something there!
Justin
P.S. I can see both my dick and my politics just fine.
I'm more interested in exchanging ideas with someone who's not afraid to link their identity with their statements. Any takers?
Justin
It's funny how the script kiddie flamers just seem to go away after a while... hmm... =) gotta love slashdot!
You can e-mail me at: unroot@cats.ucsc.edu if you have further flames, or if you wish to schedule a face-to-face meeting...
Thanks,
Justin
There is significant fragmentation in the Linux community, but that is not a bad thing... People have different opinions, whims, and design philosophies... It's all a part of the Linux culture and not something that should be looked at with a negative spin.
Justin, of Gnuidea Software
It's curious how a little web-bitch like you can be such an asshole sitting hiding behind your computer, safe at home... If you'd like to say that to my face like a real man, meet me at the Seabright Brewery any Tueday night, Santa Cruz, anytime so we can see who's the real idiot. I think i could decide in a minute whether to buy you a beer and be cool, or bitch-slap you for being such an asshole.
"I really don't think many people care whether a distro is 100% pure GPL OSS."
I care.
If you don't care, that's your choice. I don't think your opinion, or mine, is necessarily representative of Linux users in general...
Justin
First of all it wasn't an argument... It was a one-sentence statement... but i'm sure you'll get to that in Freshman English next year.
ruud writes: "why invent yet another encryption algorithm if there are already lots of strong algorithms out there?"
I'm doing it because I love mathematics and it is not just my algorithm, it will be a community effort to work on crypto design. IF you're not interested in working on it, that's your problem... I am not going to demand that anyone use Waimea... stream ciphers are special, and this is merely my project. You don't have to like it, or use it.
"Why should I trust your algorithm to be secure?"
You don't have to. It's your choice to trust or not to trust, based on your analysis of the Waimea source code and binaries... It doesn't sound like you're interested in using, or contributing to the Waimea project anyway. Again, (I shouldn't have to reiterate this, but you seem to be making lots of assumptions about me and about the Waimea project) I am not pushing any of this on anyone!... People have the choice to download, or not to download... to develop, or not to develop... to buy the box set, or not to buy the box set... It's all about choice, and if you're not interested, then choose not to become involved. I make no claims of producing the best stream cipher ever... I am just trying my hand at design and development and with the help of the open source community and the right crypto people, things could work out nice for Waimea.
Justin
Good point... However, since I'm not doing a distribution of Linux, i'll leave the X11/XFree86 issues up to the appropriate parties. Gnuidea software will be 100% GPL.
But since you mentioned it, I was wondering if you think re-writing XFree as 100% GPL software would be a good thing. What are your thoughts on writing a GPL Xserver from scratch that would handle current needs and demands?
Justin
Thank you! I'll try to keep you updated :)
Bill, I'm heading to bed so I can get some sleep before Latin class (meets monday, 11AM pacific, right now it's a quarter to 5AM :) hehe.. so I hope to talk to you later... you can always e-mail me if you want: justin@penguincomputing.com
Take care,
Justin, of Gnuidea Software
You are absolutely correct... I will submit the Gnuidea design ideas for Waimea to professionals like Bruce Schneier of Counterpane Systems for review and will GPL everything so people can point out all my flaws and hopefully, in time, we can make something really really good.
Justin