Or are you trying to make the case that the byproducts of fossil fuels are actually HELPING our environment?
Yes. Most of the life on earth developed when the concentration of CO2 (also known as "plant food") in the atmosphere was much higher. The biosphere is absolutely loving the (tiny) increase we might've managed to accomplish.
We're making HUGE increases in the CO2 levels and starting to see the effects
No, there's been a tiny increase and we haven't seen any causual effects at all. We're worrying about a 2-3 decades long and very small trend (that has reversed) without putting it into historic context (the Mann hockeystick has been thoroughly debunked - yes - the one Gore used in his fantasy movie).
There's absolutely nothing special about the climate today compared with the early 20th century - or many other times since recorded history. What we _should_ worry about are the cold snaps since those correlate perfectly with the fall of civilizations and spread of diseases.
"Despite what this article says, Arctic ice has decreased significantly in recent years. Satellite imagery from as recent as 1979 shows enormously more ice than we see today."
Yes, but why are you under the impression that 1979 was "normal"? There's nothing unusual about the ice cover we have today if you look back through the decades and centuries.
1979 is a convinient year because that's when we started to use satellites to have a look. It's not a good year if we want to be truthful about climate trends.
Btw, today's ice extent is pretty close to the 1979-2000 mean (within 5%).
I hope more games follow EVEs pattern of making rich and authentic universes where actions have consequences and great powers and alliances rise and fall
Correct, "wiped from the pages of time" has a completely different meaning, something more along the lines of the old Soviet Union not existing any more. A system of government that failed.
How you can misinterpret his call for a democratic election including all palestinians (which, quite probably, would include a change of government!) for the violent distruction of a nation is quite fascinating actually - especially comparing it to Hitler Germany:)
I think you need to brush up on your English skills.
Umm. No. The intent was not translated correctly and there's nothing in the linked article to support your claim that it was.
Now the question becomes, why do you keep posting lies? What do you believe you stand to gain from it - with everyone being able to read up on this themselves?
Mine's that the PDO has now shifted from it's warm phase, which together with other ocean currents have been driving the rise in temperature since ~1980, and temperatures are on their way back down again. You know, there's absolutely nothing special about the climate we've had the last 10-15 years compared to many other times in human history - including the 1930s.
I'm not talking about averaging - read up on how James Hansen has applied his own secret sauce to the GISS numbers to come up with whatever he wants to prove (that is, that it's getting warmer) - and how those numbers have changed over the years (making the past cooler).
I was taught a lot of things in school that are now proven to be wrong. Science isn't afraid of correcting itself most of the time.
In two years time no one will be talking about "global warming" any more. We'll be debating how to grow enough food due to the 30 year long cold spell we're right now heading into.
As Lomborg puts it; Cold is a lot worse for humans than warmth.
Oh it does. The slight warming caused by the warm phase PDO has now reversed and we're on a down slope again, with increased arctic and antarctic ice covers and measurable colder winters.
On global temperatures, using non-fudged satellite data:
because we know what the planet was like before we started adding those gases in the first place
Umm, no, not really. You see, there's absolutely no causal relationship between "those gasses" and the what the "planet was like". A good recent example can be found here:
This is a review from CO2Science.com of an interesting paper looking at Oxygen 18 records in water driven cave formations (stalactite, stalagmite or flowstone) than span a 4000 year period. [New Zealand]
For both the ENI and WSI Î18O records master speleothem histories, their warmest periods fall within the AD 900-1100 time interval, which is also where the peak warmth of a large portion of the temperature records found in our Medieval Warm Period
(There's previously been a claim from the AGW crowd that the MWP "didn't exist" or if it existed it was strictly a north atlantic affair. That has now been disproven - scientifically)
No, that's the measurements of the Urban Heat Island effect and James Hansens personal secret closed source "correction algorithm". If you really want to know something about temperatures, you should look at the UAH satellite data.
Slashdot Mirror
since the inception of the large-scale use of fossil fuels the rate of increase of airborne carbon has exceeded any in the historical record
No, absolutely not.
For God's sake, educate yourself. Use Google
I have. http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/historical_CO2.html
ALL of the data we have suggest that the earth will shift if we continue to emit carbon because the earth's systems will react
No.
I'm a bit interested as to why you would claim such a thing as well.
Or are you trying to make the case that the byproducts of fossil fuels are actually HELPING our environment?
Yes. Most of the life on earth developed when the concentration of CO2 (also known as "plant food") in the atmosphere was much higher. The biosphere is absolutely loving the (tiny) increase we might've managed to accomplish.
But we've never had over about 400 parts per million (ppm) CO2 levels
Wrong. We've had much higher levels than that. More than an order of magnitude higher.
http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/historical_CO2.htm
We're making HUGE increases in the CO2 levels and starting to see the effects
No, there's been a tiny increase and we haven't seen any causual effects at all. We're worrying about a 2-3 decades long and very small trend (that has reversed) without putting it into historic context (the Mann hockeystick has been thoroughly debunked - yes - the one Gore used in his fantasy movie).
There's absolutely nothing special about the climate today compared with the early 20th century - or many other times since recorded history. What we _should_ worry about are the cold snaps since those correlate perfectly with the fall of civilizations and spread of diseases.
"Despite what this article says, Arctic ice has decreased significantly in recent years. Satellite imagery from as recent as 1979 shows enormously more ice than we see today."
Yes, but why are you under the impression that 1979 was "normal"? There's nothing unusual about the ice cover we have today if you look back through the decades and centuries.
1979 is a convinient year because that's when we started to use satellites to have a look. It's not a good year if we want to be truthful about climate trends.
Btw, today's ice extent is pretty close to the 1979-2000 mean (within 5%).
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/kiwistonewall/2009x.jpg
I subscribe to the Karl Popper version of science, yes. I like facts, not fiction, and the IPCC climate models have been proven wrong.
Proven.
Are you under the impression that the levels of atmospheric CO2 are in any way out of the ordinary historically?
They're not, and the oceans are nowhere near becoming "acidic" either.
Verify myths before spreading them, even if it might require you to go beyond tabloids and weird propaganda.
I hope more games follow EVEs pattern of making rich and authentic universes where actions have consequences and great powers and alliances rise and fall
You're playing one right now. We call it "life".
Seriously. It's the best explanation out there.
Correct, "wiped from the pages of time" has a completely different meaning, something more along the lines of the old Soviet Union not existing any more. A system of government that failed.
How you can misinterpret his call for a democratic election including all palestinians (which, quite probably, would include a change of government!) for the violent distruction of a nation is quite fascinating actually - especially comparing it to Hitler Germany :)
I think you need to brush up on your English skills.
Umm. No. The intent was not translated correctly and there's nothing in the linked article to support your claim that it was.
Now the question becomes, why do you keep posting lies? What do you believe you stand to gain from it - with everyone being able to read up on this themselves?
Yes? Your point being?
promising to wipe Iran off the map
Please don't spread myths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_map.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_translation
It bothers me greatly that the US and Israel have nukes, correct.
Oh, those weren't the theocrazies you were talking about?
Yes? Your point being?
Mine's that the PDO has now shifted from it's warm phase, which together with other ocean currents have been driving the rise in temperature since ~1980, and temperatures are on their way back down again. You know, there's absolutely nothing special about the climate we've had the last 10-15 years compared to many other times in human history - including the 1930s.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/PDO.html
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/
I'm not talking about averaging - read up on how James Hansen has applied his own secret sauce to the GISS numbers to come up with whatever he wants to prove (that is, that it's getting warmer) - and how those numbers have changed over the years (making the past cooler).
I was taught a lot of things in school that are now proven to be wrong. Science isn't afraid of correcting itself most of the time.
In two years time no one will be talking about "global warming" any more. We'll be debating how to grow enough food due to the 30 year long cold spell we're right now heading into.
As Lomborg puts it; Cold is a lot worse for humans than warmth.
Here's another random image off Google. Looks a bit different, doesn't it?
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/uah-dec-2008.png
The same core data demonstrate that greenhouse gases are at an all-time high
No.
Maybe the Gulf Stream is slowing down already
No it's not. Stop spreading refuted myths.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics/story.html?id=18a82eea-b683-44db-a46c-47ad6c3ae6c1
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/gs/
Doesn't look particularly good does it?
Oh it does. The slight warming caused by the warm phase PDO has now reversed and we're on a down slope again, with increased arctic and antarctic ice covers and measurable colder winters.
On global temperatures, using non-fudged satellite data:
http://digitaldiatribes.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/december-2008-update-on-global-temperature-uah-2/
(No correlation whatsoever to CO2, btw)
That's we're going to run them on Thorium, not Uranium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium_fuel_cycle
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Thorium
No, I was pointing out that your post didn't contain any truths :) You're free to try again though.
The question is, why is it so important to you to keep clinging to refuted science? The climate model predictions have been proven wrong.
Nothing in your post is supported by science and the scientific way of working.
because we know what the planet was like before we started adding those gases in the first place
Umm, no, not really. You see, there's absolutely no causal relationship between "those gasses" and the what the "planet was like". A good recent example can be found here:
This is a review from CO2Science.com of an interesting paper looking at Oxygen 18 records in water driven cave formations (stalactite, stalagmite or flowstone) than span a 4000 year period. [New Zealand]
For both the ENI and WSI Î18O records master speleothem histories, their warmest periods fall within the AD 900-1100 time interval, which is also where the peak warmth of a large portion of the temperature records found in our Medieval Warm Period
(There's previously been a claim from the AGW crowd that the MWP "didn't exist" or if it existed it was strictly a north atlantic affair. That has now been disproven - scientifically)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/03/4000-year-o18-histories-of-new-zealands-north-and-south-islands/
No, that's the measurements of the Urban Heat Island effect and James Hansens personal secret closed source "correction algorithm". If you really want to know something about temperatures, you should look at the UAH satellite data.
http://surfacestations.org/ on GISS and UHI
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2008/uah-temperature-up-in-november/ on UAH global temperatures