My wife and I go out of our way to make sure any clothes we buy keep their brand logos on the tag in the back...there's absolutely no reason to pay $50 for a shirt at Abercrombie, American Eagle, or any of those places when it's the same $10 shirt sold at Target or Wal-Mart.
All of the brands worth paying $50 for a shirt keep their logos in check, because they let the quality of the product do the talkin'.
I never said they did...but they can be used to open your mind up to new possibilities that you otherwise wouldn't consider, and they can also help you find peace in the mundane.
They're not for everyone, but for those who don't abuse them, they can be quite enlightening.
Even when you can kind of describe it, your words will never do justice to the experience.
I've found that this tends to be easier when talking to someone else that has taken the same substance. For instance, if I were to try to explain Robowalk to someone that never took DXM, they would have no idea what I was talking about...but were I to say that phrase or explain how it feels to someone that HAS taken it, they would practically recreate the experience in their mind.
LSD is another great example...if I were to say to a non-user "man...that room was wrapped up like a package last night! It's a good thing the top wasn't taped on", they would think I was nuts. To someone who has dropped acid and spent most of the time in one room for the duration of one of their trips, however, would know exactly what I meant.
It's kind of strange...either you've never done it and have no idea, or you have done it and relive the experience for a split-second when someone mentions it.
Your calculated, measured experience is the problem here. I've been to Italy but that doesn't make me a good source for information pertaining to Italian culture. I know more than those who have never been, but not enough to make declarative statements. With large doses of hallucinogens, the imagination's the only limitation. Those visuals you mentioned as unrealistic aren't as unrealistic as you think. But that's the original point: You said, "If it was acid you would see blah blah blah." NO. On acid who the fuck knows what you're going to see? Even when you can kind of describe it, your words will never do justice to the experience.
I meant it merely as a general difference in experience, not a definitive answer on what you would see. I even mentioned further in my response that a substance won't affect two people the same.
Concerning tracers: yes, they happen all the time whether you're sober or not because the brain/eyes are not a video recorder. The tracers are a result of perception not completely matching reality. On acid your brain fills in those gaps from other parts of the brain: audio, memory, imagination, ect. But pot doesn't change this one way or another, and if you think it does, it was just a placebo b/c you're overanalyzing the experience. People who take drugs like it's a science experiment are the most susceptible to placebo, they let white noise influence their perception.
My first time with any substance was always approached as an experiment. As a result, I've never had a "bad trip", never overdosed, and have known exactly what to do when bad side effects reared their heads.
It would be a waste of time to approach further use as an experiment, but treating the first experience as an experiment is a great way to stay safe.
And WTF are the 'right things to do' while under the influence of pot? That's so asinine. I smoke pot every day. I do EVERYTHING under the influence of pot.
I'm not one to judge lifestyles, and I'm friends with more than a couple of people that are daily smokers, but as far as getting the most out of a substance, that's part of your problem right there. When you use it every day, it's "sheen" wears off.
Again, I'm not judging...I'm just saying you can't expect something to be special when you do it every day.
Your original post was a mischaracterization of marijuana. A mischaracterization that enforces negative stereotypes about it. Negative stereotypes that are used to maintain its illegal status.
You consider the implication that marijuana enables "aha!" moments to be a negative?
If you really believe that pot should be legal then maybe you shouldn't insinuate that it will make one trip and start acting like Timothy Leery.
If you think seeing some squiggly lines is the same as tripping, I'd say you've been getting weak shit:p
They're called tracers and it's not common at all for users of pot. In fact, pot 'hallucinations' are most likely a placebo effect in 99% of cases. Sleep depravation is more likely to cause them.
Look at a tile floor in a bathroom when you're stone-cold sober. Stare between the tiles, allow your eyes to lose focus, and tell me that after 15 seconds or so you don't see the lines start to dance.
Floating slightly above the ground and shifting colors? Please. What textbook did you read that out of?
My own experience, actually.
Maybe you should actually try a hallucinogen (a real one: acid, 'shrooms; not a 'classified' one: pot) before pretending to be an authority on the matter.
Between the ages of 19 and 23 (I'm 26 now), I tried the following "real" hallucinogens: LSD, LSA, mushrooms, salvia, DMT, and DXM. Before taking each one for the first time, I did extensive research by talking to people who had taken them AND taking the time to read up on them, using erowid.org and other online resources. I paid paritcular attention to their expected effects, what other substances could safely and couldn't safely be mixed with them, what to do in case of an accidental overdose/"bad" experience, what kind of food should be eaten 24 hours before ingestion, and suggestions for environmental factors such as lighting, entertainment, and topics to think/talk/write about. I took LSD, LSA, Mushrooms, and DXM numerous times, while the others I only took once or twice.
I wouldn't say I'm an authority on the matter, but I have a lot of calculated, measured experience with them.
When enough LSD is taken, you can't just characterize the hallucinations as one way or another. Things don't necessarily float or shift colors. It's an ineffable experience, but it starts with tracers -- your "vibrating lines."
And not everyone has the same reaction to the same substance, asshat. If I had never done any of these things, I would have said something about gnomes jumping around, the walls melting, or seeing my dead grandmother...all common "hallucinations" assigned to things like LSD by people who have never done them.
It's blatant mischaracterizations of marijuana such as your original post that make it remain taboo and illegal.
Fuck you very much. I fully support the legalization of marijuana, and actively try to inform people about its relative safety, especially when compared to legal substances like nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol.
The post actually would have been unwittingly funny if you had said acid rather than pot, because many hippy-geeks really do view acid-tracers as a metaphor for string theory. But a lot of nonsensical stuff seems enlightening on acid. Pot just makes you relaxed and hungry.
Then you haven't been doing the right things while under the influence of pot.
No, that was the unfortunate night Bob decided to dose 400mg of pure DXM (in a do-it-yourself gelcap, obviously) and an eigth of Golden Teacher shrooms within ten minutes of each other.
The story goes that he mistook a Wolverine bust for being see-through. It wasn't until he peaked, however, that he realized the Wolverine bust was not only see-through, but was in fact a projection of energy and light from his third eye.
The whole "vibrating line" thing is based off an optical illusion that affects even sober people, which pot can exacerbate. If it was LSD, the tiles would have been floating slightly above the ground and shifting colors, rather than something as simple as stationary lines showing trail-like vibrations.
I've been called many things, but never a square:p
One day, Bob the Scientist was puffing on some buddha. He smoked and smoked, and smoked some more. Suddenly, Bob the scientist looked down: the lines between the tiles on the floor started to wiggle this way and that, giving the tiles the impression that they were vibrating. Bob the Scientist blinked his eyes twice, only to see the lines still wiggling, enticing them with their random, chaotic dance.
"That's it!" Bob shouted. "That's the answer, man!"
Bob the Scientist went and grabbed Bill the Scientist. He pointed at the floor, saying over and over again "The lines, man! Look at the lines! Wooooooaaaaaahhhhh."
Bill the Scientist sniffed, and said to Bob "Bob...have you been smoking that crazy ganja again?"
"Yes, but so what? Duuuuude...the liinnnes...their taaaalking to meeeee..."
"Give me some of that shit." Bill the Scientist took a big drag, looked down at the floor, and they both stared. "Woooooaaaaaaah...we better write this down, so we don't forget!"
Their "apples to apples" comparisons alone make their reviews worth reading...not to mention their amazing forums. In case anyone else is on there, I can be found posting under the name "Pojut". I usually post in the Computer Audio, Video Card, Case Mod, and General Gaming sections, but I lurk everywhere else.
The 5970 is a dual-GPU card (layman's terms: it's the equivalent of two video cards sandwiched onto a single PCB), and costs nearly three times what the 6850 costs. Now, if you were complaining that a 6850 didn't outperform a 5850, that'd be different...but the 5970 is far more expensive for a reason:p
Agreed. My knee-jerk reaction is the same as others, but from someone in the military's perspective, it's better they not read something they aren't supposed to.
Bullshit, utter bullshit. Have you never said something about a friend in confidence that you didn't want that friend to hear about? Or a relative?
No, I haven't. See, when I have a problem with someone, I talk to them, not someone else.
If every single thing you'd ever said was reported to those whom you mentioned, you'd have a lot of strained and tense relationships in your life. It's really just a grown-up version of girls in high school spreading rumors of what Jenny said about Sally.
You are comparing a single cog to the entire machine. Explain to me how my secrets and whispers somehow have the same power as government's secrets and whispers? I'm a nobody. They, for all intents and purposes, are everybody.
And no, the government is not somehow "different" in that regard. Criminal activity? Sure, let's have that exposed to the light of day. But for every "whoops, we bombed a village" atrocity, there are 10 "that diplomat is difficult to deal with" or "X and Y are unreasonable demands, maybe Z will work" documents that strain relationships and damage the US. The former is whistleblowing, the latter is not.
It's hard for me to explain...I view him like the douchey stormchaser guys in that movie "Twister". They're doing awesome work, but they're being dicks about it.
I've always thought critiques like this were mere cover for people who either don't like what he says, or don't like the fact that it is a fat working class slob and not an ivy league snob saying it.
I can't speak for others, but in my case that isn't true at all. I've seen everything the man has released, and I truly appreciate the effort he puts into it all.
Michael Moore went through a mass character assassination to similar to Julian Assange. Note that as the stream of negative publicity backfired as the ulterior motives were exposed and people stopped swallowing so much shit, the pictures attached to news articles changed from an seedy looking, sneering, oily Gollum lookalike into a reasonably normal looking guy. They could both be asshats or great guys, I have no idea but I certainly don't intend to allow two faced news rag peddlers dictate my opinions of anyone.
Lacking the opportunity to meet these people within my normal social circles, I prefer to form my own opinions based upon unedited and unbiased interviews of a reasonable enough length to prevent any contextual manipulation. Sadly that's not how the news will ever portray someone, it doesn't sell so well.
As I explained earlier in the thread, for me, it all comes down to Moore going "LOOKATME, I UNCOVERED THIS SLEAZE! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!"
I can understand wanting the credit, but he takes it WAY too far. This isn't based on any form of character assasination*, but rather just his personality.
*note that I agree with you about the character assasination bit. His attention whoring bothers me, but in no way does it discredit what he does.
What purpose is served in releasing the fact that Hilary Clinton worries about the mental health of other world leaders? How does that aid in our international relations?
That's just one of 1000's of items that were released that are not crimes, are not important for the American people to know, and still undermine our government's ability to operate on the world stage.
Releasing those kinds of documents doesn't serve a greater good. It doesnt expose any wrong-doings. It doesn't help create stability, ensure -anyone's- safety, or promote any kind of cooperation between nations. It was released to embarrass the US government and garner sensationlistic attention from a little weasle.
If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to worry about...right? I mean, that's what they told us with the Patriot Act and warrentless wiretapping, so...
Not to mention that this guy released the names of confidential informants in the middle east. In doing so he signed the death warrants of those people. What greater purpose was served by releasing their names? What good will come of that? What crime did they commit? What evil are they responsible for? Where are your indignant tears for them and their families who will almost assuredly be slaughtered?
Can you find me one single recorded instance of anyone over there being killed directly because of the Iraq/Afghanistan war docs?
My problem with him on a personal level is he doesn't let the evidence speak for itself...he seems to find it imperitive to make sure that you know that he's the one saying it.
Like I said, I absolutely support and love the work he does, but the man's need for attention pisses me off.
Slashdot Mirror
My wife and I go out of our way to make sure any clothes we buy keep their brand logos on the tag in the back...there's absolutely no reason to pay $50 for a shirt at Abercrombie, American Eagle, or any of those places when it's the same $10 shirt sold at Target or Wal-Mart.
All of the brands worth paying $50 for a shirt keep their logos in check, because they let the quality of the product do the talkin'.
I never said they did...but they can be used to open your mind up to new possibilities that you otherwise wouldn't consider, and they can also help you find peace in the mundane.
They're not for everyone, but for those who don't abuse them, they can be quite enlightening.
On an unrelated note:
Even when you can kind of describe it, your words will never do justice to the experience.
I've found that this tends to be easier when talking to someone else that has taken the same substance. For instance, if I were to try to explain Robowalk to someone that never took DXM, they would have no idea what I was talking about...but were I to say that phrase or explain how it feels to someone that HAS taken it, they would practically recreate the experience in their mind.
LSD is another great example...if I were to say to a non-user "man...that room was wrapped up like a package last night! It's a good thing the top wasn't taped on", they would think I was nuts. To someone who has dropped acid and spent most of the time in one room for the duration of one of their trips, however, would know exactly what I meant.
It's kind of strange...either you've never done it and have no idea, or you have done it and relive the experience for a split-second when someone mentions it.
Your calculated, measured experience is the problem here. I've been to Italy but that doesn't make me a good source for information pertaining to Italian culture. I know more than those who have never been, but not enough to make declarative statements. With large doses of hallucinogens, the imagination's the only limitation. Those visuals you mentioned as unrealistic aren't as unrealistic as you think. But that's the original point: You said, "If it was acid you would see blah blah blah." NO. On acid who the fuck knows what you're going to see? Even when you can kind of describe it, your words will never do justice to the experience.
I meant it merely as a general difference in experience, not a definitive answer on what you would see. I even mentioned further in my response that a substance won't affect two people the same.
Concerning tracers: yes, they happen all the time whether you're sober or not because the brain/eyes are not a video recorder. The tracers are a result of perception not completely matching reality. On acid your brain fills in those gaps from other parts of the brain: audio, memory, imagination, ect. But pot doesn't change this one way or another, and if you think it does, it was just a placebo b/c you're overanalyzing the experience. People who take drugs like it's a science experiment are the most susceptible to placebo, they let white noise influence their perception.
My first time with any substance was always approached as an experiment. As a result, I've never had a "bad trip", never overdosed, and have known exactly what to do when bad side effects reared their heads.
It would be a waste of time to approach further use as an experiment, but treating the first experience as an experiment is a great way to stay safe.
And WTF are the 'right things to do' while under the influence of pot? That's so asinine. I smoke pot every day. I do EVERYTHING under the influence of pot.
I'm not one to judge lifestyles, and I'm friends with more than a couple of people that are daily smokers, but as far as getting the most out of a substance, that's part of your problem right there. When you use it every day, it's "sheen" wears off.
Again, I'm not judging...I'm just saying you can't expect something to be special when you do it every day.
Your original post was a mischaracterization of marijuana. A mischaracterization that enforces negative stereotypes about it. Negative stereotypes that are used to maintain its illegal status.
You consider the implication that marijuana enables "aha!" moments to be a negative?
If you really believe that pot should be legal then maybe you shouldn't insinuate that it will make one trip and start acting like Timothy Leery.
If you think seeing some squiggly lines is the same as tripping, I'd say you've been getting weak shit :p
They're called tracers and it's not common at all for users of pot. In fact, pot 'hallucinations' are most likely a placebo effect in 99% of cases. Sleep depravation is more likely to cause them.
Look at a tile floor in a bathroom when you're stone-cold sober. Stare between the tiles, allow your eyes to lose focus, and tell me that after 15 seconds or so you don't see the lines start to dance.
Floating slightly above the ground and shifting colors? Please. What textbook did you read that out of?
My own experience, actually.
Maybe you should actually try a hallucinogen (a real one: acid, 'shrooms; not a 'classified' one: pot) before pretending to be an authority on the matter.
Between the ages of 19 and 23 (I'm 26 now), I tried the following "real" hallucinogens: LSD, LSA, mushrooms, salvia, DMT, and DXM. Before taking each one for the first time, I did extensive research by talking to people who had taken them AND taking the time to read up on them, using erowid.org and other online resources. I paid paritcular attention to their expected effects, what other substances could safely and couldn't safely be mixed with them, what to do in case of an accidental overdose/"bad" experience, what kind of food should be eaten 24 hours before ingestion, and suggestions for environmental factors such as lighting, entertainment, and topics to think/talk/write about. I took LSD, LSA, Mushrooms, and DXM numerous times, while the others I only took once or twice.
I wouldn't say I'm an authority on the matter, but I have a lot of calculated, measured experience with them.
When enough LSD is taken, you can't just characterize the hallucinations as one way or another. Things don't necessarily float or shift colors. It's an ineffable experience, but it starts with tracers -- your "vibrating lines."
And not everyone has the same reaction to the same substance, asshat. If I had never done any of these things, I would have said something about gnomes jumping around, the walls melting, or seeing my dead grandmother...all common "hallucinations" assigned to things like LSD by people who have never done them.
It's blatant mischaracterizations of marijuana such as your original post that make it remain taboo and illegal.
Fuck you very much. I fully support the legalization of marijuana, and actively try to inform people about its relative safety, especially when compared to legal substances like nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol.
The post actually would have been unwittingly funny if you had said acid rather than pot, because many hippy-geeks really do view acid-tracers as a metaphor for string theory. But a lot of nonsensical stuff seems enlightening on acid. Pot just makes you relaxed and hungry.
Then you haven't been doing the right things while under the influence of pot.
Man...baseless assumptions of someone's political leanings, assembled from a single post in which their political leanings weren't discussed?
Yup. Sounds about right for the average discussion on politics. ::eyeroll::
I'm talking to everybody.
Remember folks, just because you agree with it doesn't make it unbiased!
No, that was the unfortunate night Bob decided to dose 400mg of pure DXM (in a do-it-yourself gelcap, obviously) and an eigth of Golden Teacher shrooms within ten minutes of each other.
The story goes that he mistook a Wolverine bust for being see-through. It wasn't until he peaked, however, that he realized the Wolverine bust was not only see-through, but was in fact a projection of energy and light from his third eye.
Thus the theory of holigraphy was found.
:)
The whole "vibrating line" thing is based off an optical illusion that affects even sober people, which pot can exacerbate. If it was LSD, the tiles would have been floating slightly above the ground and shifting colors, rather than something as simple as stationary lines showing trail-like vibrations.
I've been called many things, but never a square :p
One day, Bob the Scientist was puffing on some buddha. He smoked and smoked, and smoked some more. Suddenly, Bob the scientist looked down: the lines between the tiles on the floor started to wiggle this way and that, giving the tiles the impression that they were vibrating. Bob the Scientist blinked his eyes twice, only to see the lines still wiggling, enticing them with their random, chaotic dance.
"That's it!" Bob shouted. "That's the answer, man!"
Bob the Scientist went and grabbed Bill the Scientist. He pointed at the floor, saying over and over again "The lines, man! Look at the lines! Wooooooaaaaaahhhhh."
Bill the Scientist sniffed, and said to Bob "Bob...have you been smoking that crazy ganja again?"
"Yes, but so what? Duuuuude...the liinnnes...their taaaalking to meeeee..."
"Give me some of that shit." Bill the Scientist took a big drag, looked down at the floor, and they both stared. "Woooooaaaaaaah...we better write this down, so we don't forget!"
And thus, string theory was born.
Their "apples to apples" comparisons alone make their reviews worth reading...not to mention their amazing forums. In case anyone else is on there, I can be found posting under the name "Pojut". I usually post in the Computer Audio, Video Card, Case Mod, and General Gaming sections, but I lurk everywhere else.
I was just using it as an example.
As for the 6970 and 6950, they are AMAZING deals. The 6970 is, on average, only 5-10 FPS behind the nVidia 580, yet it costs roughly $140 less.
Just this year?
... ..... ...
The 5970 is a dual-GPU card (layman's terms: it's the equivalent of two video cards sandwiched onto a single PCB), and costs nearly three times what the 6850 costs. Now, if you were complaining that a 6850 didn't outperform a 5850, that'd be different...but the 5970 is far more expensive for a reason :p
Agreed. My knee-jerk reaction is the same as others, but from someone in the military's perspective, it's better they not read something they aren't supposed to.
Bullshit, utter bullshit. Have you never said something about a friend in confidence that you didn't want that friend to hear about? Or a relative?
No, I haven't. See, when I have a problem with someone, I talk to them, not someone else.
If every single thing you'd ever said was reported to those whom you mentioned, you'd have a lot of strained and tense relationships in your life. It's really just a grown-up version of girls in high school spreading rumors of what Jenny said about Sally.
You are comparing a single cog to the entire machine. Explain to me how my secrets and whispers somehow have the same power as government's secrets and whispers? I'm a nobody. They, for all intents and purposes, are everybody.
And no, the government is not somehow "different" in that regard. Criminal activity? Sure, let's have that exposed to the light of day. But for every "whoops, we bombed a village" atrocity, there are 10 "that diplomat is difficult to deal with" or "X and Y are unreasonable demands, maybe Z will work" documents that strain relationships and damage the US. The former is whistleblowing, the latter is not.
Fair enough.
That actually sounds like a fairly accurate representation of the man. Honesty in an online dating profile? Whodathunkit???
It's hard for me to explain...I view him like the douchey stormchaser guys in that movie "Twister". They're doing awesome work, but they're being dicks about it.
I've always thought critiques like this were mere cover for people who either don't like what he says, or don't like the fact that it is a fat working class slob and not an ivy league snob saying it.
I can't speak for others, but in my case that isn't true at all. I've seen everything the man has released, and I truly appreciate the effort he puts into it all.
Michael Moore went through a mass character assassination to similar to Julian Assange. Note that as the stream of negative publicity backfired as the ulterior motives were exposed and people stopped swallowing so much shit, the pictures attached to news articles changed from an seedy looking, sneering, oily Gollum lookalike into a reasonably normal looking guy. They could both be asshats or great guys, I have no idea but I certainly don't intend to allow two faced news rag peddlers dictate my opinions of anyone.
Lacking the opportunity to meet these people within my normal social circles, I prefer to form my own opinions based upon unedited and unbiased interviews of a reasonable enough length to prevent any contextual manipulation. Sadly that's not how the news will ever portray someone, it doesn't sell so well.
As I explained earlier in the thread, for me, it all comes down to Moore going "LOOKATME, I UNCOVERED THIS SLEAZE! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!"
I can understand wanting the credit, but he takes it WAY too far. This isn't based on any form of character assasination*, but rather just his personality.
*note that I agree with you about the character assasination bit. His attention whoring bothers me, but in no way does it discredit what he does.
so this is different from fox news, all the corporate news channels, how ?
Moore works to expose corruption, while corporate media generally helps enable it. I'd say that's a pretty big difference.
What purpose is served in releasing the fact that Hilary Clinton worries about the mental health of other world leaders? How does that aid in our international relations?
That's just one of 1000's of items that were released that are not crimes, are not important for the American people to know, and still undermine our government's ability to operate on the world stage.
Releasing those kinds of documents doesn't serve a greater good. It doesnt expose any wrong-doings. It doesn't help create stability, ensure -anyone's- safety, or promote any kind of cooperation between nations. It was released to embarrass the US government and garner sensationlistic attention from a little weasle.
If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to worry about...right? I mean, that's what they told us with the Patriot Act and warrentless wiretapping, so...
Not to mention that this guy released the names of confidential informants in the middle east. In doing so he signed the death warrants of those people. What greater purpose was served by releasing their names? What good will come of that? What crime did they commit? What evil are they responsible for? Where are your indignant tears for them and their families who will almost assuredly be slaughtered?
Can you find me one single recorded instance of anyone over there being killed directly because of the Iraq/Afghanistan war docs?
Interesting, thanks!
My problem with him on a personal level is he doesn't let the evidence speak for itself...he seems to find it imperitive to make sure that you know that he's the one saying it.
Like I said, I absolutely support and love the work he does, but the man's need for attention pisses me off.