If just one feature improves work productivity dramatically then it's worth it. For me, the auto-sizing side by side windows (drag to the left and right edge) feature is worth it.
Win7 still doesn't have a good equivalent to OSX Expose (four fingers down, all active windows resize to fit on screen, then pick the one you want to bring to front). (off-topic: Why does Win7 try to copy this feature, then only show the outlines of all open Windows? Without seeing the content of the Windows, what's the point?)
I thought most smart companies leased their machines. The issue of having to update the hardware is moot, if this is true, because you just wait until the next lease period starts, and you are assured to have a machine capable of running the modern OS.
Probably doesn't apply to small business, I guess.
In my experience as an educational technologist, the costs associated with changing the desktop OS of the average office worker is grossly overstated. Perhaps it IS because I'm in the tech industry, as are all my coworkers, that my experience is that most people will transition to Win7 from XP just fine with very little costs associated with training or tech support.
People in real cults wear sneakers, chop their genitals off and commit suicide. People who like Newtons/Ruby on Rails/Linux/Macs/whatever to a level disparate with the rest of society are called enthusiasts.
Uh, reading comprehension? I didn't realize the ALT key brought up key shortcuts in Office 2007. It takes a "special sort of stupid" to think I wouldn't know where the alt key resides on the keyboard. Keep facepalming yourself...maybe you won't stop long enough to post reactionary posts.
With Win7, my entire rant against Microsoft becomes invalid, since they've addressed nearly every thing I've mentioned. I figure in a few years weird keyboard shortcuts and navigation will be a thing of the past in most third party software as well.
I now have Win7 and Office 2007, and frankly don't get the outrage against these products. I think it is because they DID address the issues I was talking about and so many of the die hard windows guys don't like change.
Well I'll dismiss your inaccurate insults and address the issue. You need to read a book--the Design of Everyday Things, for starters--and then you'll understand my interest in UI design. It has nothing to do with Mac vs. PC or Linux.
Multiple ways to do things are great, except when one of those ways is there just to drag along legacy code and the other is not easy to figure out (look at the other posts...you guys post entire paragraphs defending how easy it is to navigate with windows...you prove my point for me).
My perceived fanboiism does not stem from preferring one OS over another (for the recored, I like Win7 the best right now). It stems from my interest in making UIs that people can figure out without having to press F1 for help (because I'm a tech writer and write help documents, I despise the notion of having to read a document for help for something that should be obvious or easy to figure out with trial and error).
And thankfully, I haven't been warded off by Microsoft, since I make a very nice salary because of Microsoft.
Your complaints are invalid and stem entirely from your unwillingness to make the slightest effort to understand how the system works.
No they are not. I'm a tech writer and the Microsoft tech writing manual is my lifeline. I know how the stuff is SUPPOSED to work. It is not for lack of effort on my part that the WinOS keyshortcuts are horribly documented and not intuitive.
One way uses CTRL as a modifier and does not involve the menus at all, though they are discoverable through the menu by using the tooltips.
I no longer have old Office versions so I can't verify, but I don't remember a tooltip for Office 2003. Keyboard shortcuts are defined nicely in 2007, but unless you KNOW to hover and wait, you might never discover this feature.
E.g., CTRL+S to save, CTRL+O to open. If you don't know or can't be bothered to remember these keyboard commands, you can alternately navigate the menu system by pressing the ALT key.
And therein lies the problem..multiple ways to do the same thing using two different modifier keys, neither of which are clearly marked. Making it worse is the ALT method exists only to keep dragging along legacy code.
And incidentally, the CTRL keys are unchanged in Office 2007, the tool tips still tell you the CTRL keys, and pressing ALT still causes key commands to appear on the ribbon options, so if you've ever used keyboard shortcuts in office ever, they still work basically the same way.
And that is still WAAAAY to many ways to do the same thing.
Caveat: I didn't know about the alt key in 2007. Very helpful indeed. It works better with a ribbon than a menu hiearchy. Works more like Photoshop key shortcuts (pick a letter for the tool you want, for example).
So how was I supposed to know about the ALT function? Certainly there is no "unwillingness" on my part, nor have a not spent any effort trying to learn these things, yet I still didn't know. And I do this stuff for a living. How does my clueless mother-in-law supposed to know?
As helpful as your post turned out to be, it still nicely demonstrates how cumbersome the Microsoft keyshortcuts really are.
No, you aren't "breaking" anything to me. The inconsistency in the Windows environment is well-known. One app will have "Ctrl + S" in the menu, yet another will use an underlined letter in a word under a menu list without listing the modifier key.
I love slashdot, the game. I leveled up this week by trolling twice, having one first post, and posting one link that directs the viewer to a guy spreading his rectum open.
I'm halfway to level three. All I need is a Profit! step, a Soviet Union reference, and a FTFY post.
Then after that I shoot for level four by posting positive stories about Ron Paul and Linux followed up with a rant against DRM.
So what do they give up for gaming? Life, job or sleep?
You present a false dichotomy (exept with three false choices, whatever that's called). I think if you do the math, there's plenty of time for gaming, life, job and sleep.
Who said playing a game is giving up life? Games are fun. Life should be fun.
I wish more people in the world understood this sentiment.
Things that make a lot of money are not necessarily good (blockbuster movies, stars who are famous for being famous, bubble-gum pop singers, Microsoft software, etc. etc.).
And you are arguing that logical fallacy definitions can be applied to opinions.
That's the entire point of logical fallacies--they point out the error in the logic of people's OPINIONS. Opinions are flawed because people can't see their own fallacies. That's how they are different from facts.
The logical fallacy in point here is that somebody is claiming "something is X because a lot of people think so"-- argumentum ad populum. Because a lot of people think something is true, doesn't make it true.
I dunno...I think the logical fallacy is clear. TFA doesn't say hardcore gamers can only buy new releases. I could buy 24 great games a DAY if I go back to 1982.
Wait..the article mentions hardcore gamers playing on consoles and buying 14 games a month at a cost of $1000 or more. You are playing ONE game for 40 hours a week. That's different because you aren't hardcore...you just play a game that is known to be a huge time sink.
Trust me, libraries are one of those new features that if you just use them for a little while you'll start to wonder how you did without them.
This same revelation happened to me when I bought OSX back in the early 2000s. I know MS critics will just blame them for yet another copy of OSX, but if it makes Win7 better, then why not?
The problem is, many hard core XP types have learned the XP way and this new (well, old) paradigm is really foreign to them. I'm going to guess most people who are used to their old way won't bother learning the new, even if the new could be argued to be "better".
Agreed. The past 20 years of obligatory Microsoft jokes are seemingly dying out.
However, my Win7 does not wake up consistently, which requires a reboot. But other than that, in four months, I have not had one crash or hangup from an app.
You say that because you are experienced in setting up a network in WinOS. For somebody who has never configured their cable modem and wireless router, this sort of interface is better. It's still not as good as the OSX network setup "wizard" (shudder...I hate that term, based on how bad MS wizards have been in the past), but it is far better than anything they've tried in the past with new users and networking.
Wait, what? I didn't get a manual with Win7 (came bundled with my computer). Windows keyboard shortcuts are an abomination, mostly because they are not defined anywhere, or they aren't very logical. Alt+F4? Huh? What's wrong with something like Alt+Q for quit? At least that way a user can GUESS what a shortcut might be. But then you run into the problem of which modifier key? How do I know? How do I get to the underlined O under the File menu to "Open" something. How is CTRL+F + CTRL+O better than a simple and consistent modifier key + O to open a file?
I still don't know how to invoke some keyboard shortcuts in Windows (15 years on).
At least with OSX it tells you exactly which keys are used for the shortcut right in the menu, and you don't have to do four keystrokes to get to one nested option.
Also, the new Microsoft Office software doesn't even have menus, so looking in the menu for the shortcut key doesn't work anymore either. I have NO idea how to find the shortcuts now.
Slashdot Mirror
If just one feature improves work productivity dramatically then it's worth it. For me, the auto-sizing side by side windows (drag to the left and right edge) feature is worth it.
Win7 still doesn't have a good equivalent to OSX Expose (four fingers down, all active windows resize to fit on screen, then pick the one you want to bring to front). (off-topic: Why does Win7 try to copy this feature, then only show the outlines of all open Windows? Without seeing the content of the Windows, what's the point?)
That still doesn't justify the upgrade if everything works fine....
It justifies the upgrade when every customer you have has a "Must run on Win7" requirement.
I thought most smart companies leased their machines. The issue of having to update the hardware is moot, if this is true, because you just wait until the next lease period starts, and you are assured to have a machine capable of running the modern OS.
Probably doesn't apply to small business, I guess.
Mods, please explain how a first post can possibly be "Redundant"?
The confusing settings that are available in how you view the thread, not putting first posts first?
In my experience as an educational technologist, the costs associated with changing the desktop OS of the average office worker is grossly overstated. Perhaps it IS because I'm in the tech industry, as are all my coworkers, that my experience is that most people will transition to Win7 from XP just fine with very little costs associated with training or tech support.
People in real cults wear sneakers, chop their genitals off and commit suicide. People who like Newtons/Ruby on Rails/Linux/Macs/whatever to a level disparate with the rest of society are called enthusiasts.
There's an entire segment of society that would disagree with that statement. They are called Fusion Musicians. ;-)
Uh, reading comprehension? I didn't realize the ALT key brought up key shortcuts in Office 2007. It takes a "special sort of stupid" to think I wouldn't know where the alt key resides on the keyboard. Keep facepalming yourself...maybe you won't stop long enough to post reactionary posts.
Thank you for your valid points.
With Win7, my entire rant against Microsoft becomes invalid, since they've addressed nearly every thing I've mentioned. I figure in a few years weird keyboard shortcuts and navigation will be a thing of the past in most third party software as well.
I now have Win7 and Office 2007, and frankly don't get the outrage against these products. I think it is because they DID address the issues I was talking about and so many of the die hard windows guys don't like change.
Well I'll dismiss your inaccurate insults and address the issue. You need to read a book--the Design of Everyday Things, for starters--and then you'll understand my interest in UI design. It has nothing to do with Mac vs. PC or Linux.
Multiple ways to do things are great, except when one of those ways is there just to drag along legacy code and the other is not easy to figure out (look at the other posts...you guys post entire paragraphs defending how easy it is to navigate with windows...you prove my point for me).
My perceived fanboiism does not stem from preferring one OS over another (for the recored, I like Win7 the best right now). It stems from my interest in making UIs that people can figure out without having to press F1 for help (because I'm a tech writer and write help documents, I despise the notion of having to read a document for help for something that should be obvious or easy to figure out with trial and error).
And thankfully, I haven't been warded off by Microsoft, since I make a very nice salary because of Microsoft.
So I've discovered....15 years late evidently.
Your complaints are invalid and stem entirely from your unwillingness to make the slightest effort to understand how the system works.
No they are not. I'm a tech writer and the Microsoft tech writing manual is my lifeline. I know how the stuff is SUPPOSED to work. It is not for lack of effort on my part that the WinOS keyshortcuts are horribly documented and not intuitive.
One way uses CTRL as a modifier and does not involve the menus at all, though they are discoverable through the menu by using the tooltips.
I no longer have old Office versions so I can't verify, but I don't remember a tooltip for Office 2003. Keyboard shortcuts are defined nicely in 2007, but unless you KNOW to hover and wait, you might never discover this feature.
E.g., CTRL+S to save, CTRL+O to open. If you don't know or can't be bothered to remember these keyboard commands, you can alternately navigate the menu system by pressing the ALT key.
And therein lies the problem..multiple ways to do the same thing using two different modifier keys, neither of which are clearly marked. Making it worse is the ALT method exists only to keep dragging along legacy code.
And incidentally, the CTRL keys are unchanged in Office 2007, the tool tips still tell you the CTRL keys, and pressing ALT still causes key commands to appear on the ribbon options, so if you've ever used keyboard shortcuts in office ever, they still work basically the same way.
And that is still WAAAAY to many ways to do the same thing.
Caveat: I didn't know about the alt key in 2007. Very helpful indeed. It works better with a ribbon than a menu hiearchy. Works more like Photoshop key shortcuts (pick a letter for the tool you want, for example).
So how was I supposed to know about the ALT function? Certainly there is no "unwillingness" on my part, nor have a not spent any effort trying to learn these things, yet I still didn't know. And I do this stuff for a living. How does my clueless mother-in-law supposed to know?
As helpful as your post turned out to be, it still nicely demonstrates how cumbersome the Microsoft keyshortcuts really are.
No, you aren't "breaking" anything to me. The inconsistency in the Windows environment is well-known. One app will have "Ctrl + S" in the menu, yet another will use an underlined letter in a word under a menu list without listing the modifier key.
I love slashdot, the game. I leveled up this week by trolling twice, having one first post, and posting one link that directs the viewer to a guy spreading his rectum open.
I'm halfway to level three. All I need is a Profit! step, a Soviet Union reference, and a FTFY post.
Then after that I shoot for level four by posting positive stories about Ron Paul and Linux followed up with a rant against DRM.
I consume over 50 hours of radio per week because it's something I can do while working.
My grandparents spend every free hour reading books. Funny how nobody criticizes them for not having a life.
So what do they give up for gaming? Life, job or sleep?
You present a false dichotomy (exept with three false choices, whatever that's called). I think if you do the math, there's plenty of time for gaming, life, job and sleep.
Who said playing a game is giving up life? Games are fun. Life should be fun.
I wish more people in the world understood this sentiment.
Things that make a lot of money are not necessarily good (blockbuster movies, stars who are famous for being famous, bubble-gum pop singers, Microsoft software, etc. etc.).
And you are arguing that logical fallacy definitions can be applied to opinions.
That's the entire point of logical fallacies--they point out the error in the logic of people's OPINIONS. Opinions are flawed because people can't see their own fallacies. That's how they are different from facts.
The logical fallacy in point here is that somebody is claiming "something is X because a lot of people think so"-- argumentum ad populum. Because a lot of people think something is true, doesn't make it true.
I dunno...I think the logical fallacy is clear. TFA doesn't say hardcore gamers can only buy new releases. I could buy 24 great games a DAY if I go back to 1982.
Wait..the article mentions hardcore gamers playing on consoles and buying 14 games a month at a cost of $1000 or more. You are playing ONE game for 40 hours a week. That's different because you aren't hardcore...you just play a game that is known to be a huge time sink.
Trust me, libraries are one of those new features that if you just use them for a little while you'll start to wonder how you did without them.
This same revelation happened to me when I bought OSX back in the early 2000s. I know MS critics will just blame them for yet another copy of OSX, but if it makes Win7 better, then why not?
The problem is, many hard core XP types have learned the XP way and this new (well, old) paradigm is really foreign to them. I'm going to guess most people who are used to their old way won't bother learning the new, even if the new could be argued to be "better".
Agreed. The past 20 years of obligatory Microsoft jokes are seemingly dying out.
However, my Win7 does not wake up consistently, which requires a reboot. But other than that, in four months, I have not had one crash or hangup from an app.
You say that because you are experienced in setting up a network in WinOS. For somebody who has never configured their cable modem and wireless router, this sort of interface is better. It's still not as good as the OSX network setup "wizard" (shudder...I hate that term, based on how bad MS wizards have been in the past), but it is far better than anything they've tried in the past with new users and networking.
Wait, what? I didn't get a manual with Win7 (came bundled with my computer). Windows keyboard shortcuts are an abomination, mostly because they are not defined anywhere, or they aren't very logical. Alt+F4? Huh? What's wrong with something like Alt+Q for quit? At least that way a user can GUESS what a shortcut might be. But then you run into the problem of which modifier key? How do I know? How do I get to the underlined O under the File menu to "Open" something. How is CTRL+F + CTRL+O better than a simple and consistent modifier key + O to open a file?
I still don't know how to invoke some keyboard shortcuts in Windows (15 years on).
At least with OSX it tells you exactly which keys are used for the shortcut right in the menu, and you don't have to do four keystrokes to get to one nested option.
Also, the new Microsoft Office software doesn't even have menus, so looking in the menu for the shortcut key doesn't work anymore either. I have NO idea how to find the shortcuts now.