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Study Finds That "Extreme Gamers" Play 48 Hours a Week
An anonymous reader writes "Think you're a big gamer? According to a new study from market research firm NPD Group, to be considered among the real hardcore you'll need to play an average of 48.5 hours a week — nearly seven hours a day. This group of gamers is, on average, '29 years old, and — perhaps surprisingly — one-third of them are female. They're more likely to play on consoles than on the PC, and on average they've purchased 24 titles in the past three months — a bill that could easily run over a thousand dollars. But dedicated though they may be, the Extreme Gamers are just a small minority: a mere 4% of the US's 174-million-strong gaming public. '"
Amateurs.
There haven't been 24 games released in the past 3 months worth playing for 7 hours. Let alone 7 hours a day.
I'm not a hardcore player, but I play League of Legends for about 3-4 hours a day every day. It cost me... nothing. The game is free. Don't waste your money on any games this year, just get on my level and LoL.
www.leagueoflegends.com
WoW
Though I honestly don't know how this correlates with the finding that it's more consoles than PC gamers. But that could explain how they can play 24 games for about 600 hours (which means about 25 hours per game).
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Pff sissies, I play that every day.
I have a few friends that play games this much. On consoles. The thing is, however, that it doesnt make them good. Console players IME tend to have a lot less 'skill'; ie- twitch reflexes and battlefield awareness.
Moral of the story, play PC games if you want to have a challenge. Consoles are fun if you like games with stories.
...can they keep a job? And maybe even have a life outside the computer?
48 hours a week is about what I work (ok, it's usually a bit more, but not really much). And considering how I usually do NOT have another 8 hours per day left to play games (even I tend to sleep, eat and move about from time to time), where do you squeeze those 48 hours in when you try to keep a job?
A week has 168 hours (which is, coincidentally, also about as much time as you work per month on a full time job. Think about it...). Now, I tend to sleep 6-8 hours a night. Preferably more. If you do that, then say good bye either to your job, your life or your gaming habit.
So what do they give up for gaming? Life, job or sleep?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I didn't do that everyday, but I do recall one 10 hour session on Manic Miner in the 80's sometime...
Task Mangler
Only 48 hours? Why thats only 7ish hours a day. Thats barely enough to run heroic instances.
The article doesn't look like it says, although I only skimmed. I spent several months unemployed last year and I'd easily hit 40 hours a week playing video games, frequently more. It was shameful, but that's the way it was. When you're living hand-to-mouth for months on end, utterly sapped of any energy or confidence to do anything meaningful, video games are a way to kill time.
If they hold down a job I don't know whether to be concerned or impressed. If they're "homemakers" then it's no big deal. If they're unemployed I'm disappointed you needed a survey to figure that out.
think I'm a HUGE gamer and I play maybe 1-2 hours a day if that..
I play about this amount and still manage to get plenty done. As was said, sleep gets the axe. Have a g/f, job, and I'm a full time student at a university. Thing is, it's what gets most if not all of my free time. I don't watch TV, eat out, etc. Most people burn the same amount of time doing worthless shit, they just don't focus it all on one thing. [ie] videogames
on my week off (yes bitches you heard right, i only have to work 1/2 the year) i probably do 12 hours in a couple of lazy afternoons. i thought that made me hardcore until i ran into a group that have rosters and do 12 hour shifts. and they aren't even gold farmers.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
In some gaming circles, 48 hours/week would be defined as "casual". As a teenager, I (and others I know) spent >100 hours/week on games like Helbreath, Empires: Dawn of the Modern World, Lineage II, World of Warcraft, and Age of Empires II for months on end. Hell, there were occasions on which we played for 30 or more consecutive hours without sleep--and there were still people (esp. Koreans) that were significantly more extreme.
What I found most interesting was the methodology section which reads:
I guess the most obvious way in which error could slip in is via the on-line nature of the survey - possibly their weighting forumla could use some tweaking too?
Amateurs.
No not really, I am in one of the top Warcraft Guilds and have been so since MC was the dungeon to raid (which I wear with pride) but at the same time, playing for about 40 hours a week has just gotten too much. I can totally corroborate that article.
To be in a guild like ours, you are expected to attend 4-5 raid nights a week, which generally last 3-5 hours. That's pure raid time though, so add a half hour before that to stock up on consumables, ensure that gear is enchanted/gemmed and that sort of thing. Then of course you need some time to make some cash to buy all this stuff, so generally add in at least a half hour a day for dailies - an hour if you want to do a random daily and get the extra badgers.
Oh yeah, then add in time for ALT runs, or weekend (our guild doesn't do official raids on Friday/Saturday night) booze runs, and that's another good few hours (drunken runs take the longest - but are generally most fun) and soon, you are very very easily up to around that 40 hour week or more.
For me, it just got to be too much time. I don't enjoy playing unless it's at the pointy end of the spectrum, so I have pretty much given it away. I still log on now and again to keep in touch, chat and have a giggle, but it's amazing how much time in your life you get back when you stop a schedule like that.
FYI, I chose to stop that raid schedule when I was struggling to wake up each morning (I work Mon-Fri and leave home at 7am) and it was becoming increasingly hard to wake up on time (read: started being late 2-3 times a week) after finishing raids at midnight or later. For me, the maths was really easy - raid and have fun with online friends or keep steady well paying job.
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
If the study is only done in the US, then I don't think it do the name "Extreme Gamers" justice. Come to Asia, hell, go to Korea's "internet cafes", and you will find people who never leave the place. There are a lot more local mmorpg games here than there are in the States, and those are the type of games that suck your life away. And they are all PC games too, which will debunk the more console than pc claim.
I play about 10 to 12 hours a day during the week, sometimes more on the weekends. "Hardcore gamers" my ass.
Granted I also work overnight so I have an advantage on playing. ;)
For me, the maths was really easy - raid and have fun with online friends or keep steady well paying job.
I'm glad you made the healthy choice. It's fun to just let yourself disappear into a game like WoW, but eventually you have to come out the other side. I've done the 60+ hours a week thing, I'm now down to something like 5-10 hours a week, mostly on the weekends.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Whatever n00bs, this whole "I have few friends" thread is lame.
^Win.
I was there too, except I was one of the idiots trying to wrangle 39 other idiots (read: guild officer). At the time I had just graduated from high school and due to a traumatic experience or two (not what you think but too long to detail) I staunchly refused to attend post-secondary or any other school-like institution. So I spent 8-12 hours a day on WoW, building my toon up and helping to run a whole guild instead. Surprisingly it was pretty good management training. In any case, we did the whole "best guild on server, #1 in MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx, etc" thing, climbed into the top 100 NA guilds at one point, and shortly before the first expansion hit I had burnt out. I quit pretty much cold turkey and with some help from my parents and my now girlfriend, i've never been back. I feel like i've conquered the essence of that game and any new attempts would just be the same shit in a new pile. Now i've got something MUCH more challenging to worry about: University. :)
Anyways, just wanted to say that there are probably almost as many ex-WoW addicts as there are current ones. Coca^H^H^H^H WoW's a hell of a drug.
. . . the real question is, how much do XTREEM GAMERZ play?
Wow, typing that just made me want to punch myself.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
FTFY.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
FYI, I chose to stop that raid schedule when I was struggling to wake up each morning....
I chose to stop when I realised the smell I complained about to my landlord was me.
But dedicated though they may be, the Extreme Gamers are just a small minority: a mere 4% of the US's 174-million-strong gaming public.
Only 7 million people on the US afford to spend over $300/month on console games?
Yes, it's sarcasm. Deal with it!
I'd be curious to see how many hours NOOBS play.
that I actually took time to read these comments in-between playing Counter Strike. I must be slipping.
But dude, they are about to release a new expansion!
Haha! I can relate. During my residency I was playing Guild Wars for 6 hours a night. Near the end, I had to sell my computer in order to study for my board exam.
More importantly, I'd be curious to see how many hours NOOBS use sucking at life in general.
And half of those also happen to be pretending to not be FBI. Amazing!
I have a tv card in my computer, though I usually have one or another of my older consoles hooked up to that, so I guess I'm not actually watching tv, per se. Also have multiple computers in the house, and frequently run multiple accounts for a particular MMORPG I like, it makes gameplay more interesting as some aspects of it are only accessible if you have a team together instead of going solo. As a bonus, the extra system online helps to develop my ambidexterity more fully. (Hey, it COULD be useful, one of these days.)
So, yeah, 48 hrs gameplay per day.....definitely possible. Just not very pretty after a couple all-nighters, is all.
In other news in a study made by me on the spot, a new class of gamers so-called “Avid Gamers” plays 8 hours a day. And "Heavy Gamers" plays 6 hours a day. And while "Extreme Gamers" are 4% population, there is a "Super Heavy Extreme" class of gamers which make only 1% of the population and play 25 hours a day, which for some random reason would make even more newsworthy crap.
But maybe extreme is 3 hours a day. You can draw the line everywhere, why stick with 7 specifically? And why with capital letters "Extreme Gamers"? Is this a new consecrated word/expressions?
Heres why i'm hardcore:
-The only time I stop playing my game is when not doing so would be to the permanent detriment to my gaming environment. This means times when Its absolutley necessary for me to go pay rent, to go get food, to go to sleep. Things that, if not taken care of, would stop me from playing.
-When i'm sleeping, i'm dreaming about my game. Often I post suggestions I dreamed up in the game's forums the next morning.
-I'm obsessed. When I physically cant play the game, I research the game, and do the math to figure out what would work better how.
All in all this means I play my game about 18 hours a day. Thats right, 18 goddamn hours. I sleep for the other 6.
I'm really, really starting to think that theres something wrong with me. But this is what I am- hardcore- theres no denying that. By the way, I play anarchy online, the heroin of mmos.
Back before I got my job, I was playing World of Warcraft, the biggest time-killer of them all. I was still at school but only finishing my thesis. I knew something is wrong when I saw 70 hours pop up in the "past 7 days" column on my Xfire gaming counter for WoW. So I cancelled my subscription.
I spent 10 hours/day on a game that wasn't even enjoyable for me anymore! That's crazy!
I don't mean to one up you, but I feel I should share a story from the top 1%.
I'm a former world first raider from EverQuest 1, and have been a top north american FPS competitor since back in the Quake 3 days until about 2 years ago in Counter-Strike:Source and 1.6. I've run 8-9 hour raids in EQ 1, and farmed things (ie. ToV key, stuipd fucking rare skeleton) for over 60 hours before straight. If 40 hours qualifies the top 4%, I'd consider myself formerly in the top 1%. Some years back (2006?) I quit EQ1 for WoW because I couldn't do it anymore. I'd gone to rehab for EQ1 and, the first day after getting out I walked nearly 2 hours in the middle of the night to a friends place (didnt have a car at the time) who was up all night to borrow his EQ 1 cds, walked home and was playing again before dawn.
It probably sounds odd to think of someone saying Molten Core and BWL (never did Naxxramas though) were "casual" for me, but that's exactly what it was. I was in the 2nd place guild on my server in Vanilla, the first on alliance in early TBC, second on server (horde) in late TBC, first (horde) in early WotLK, and now first (alliance) in late WotLK. I raid 3-5 nights a week as you say, for 4 hours of pure raid time per night, I have 5 80 alts - 4 of them ICC geared, 2 of them 2k+ rated in pvp on all 3 teams. I know this is abnormal, "extreme" but looking back on my EQ1 life I still feel casual by comparison. That shit was crazy.
Probably my favorite EQ 1 story of addiction (favorite as in the most telling, imo) was 2 wizards (husband and wife) in my guild, who were hooked on meth - started playing EverQuest 1 - and just one day completely forgot to score more meth because they couldn't leave EQ - and quit cold turkey, having completely forgotten about Meth.
The thing is - as human beings we are attracted to certain things more than anything else. When you get really into a game and start thinking about the bonding experiences of difficult situations in raids or pvp - and how you couldn't have accomplished that without them, or would be dead were it not for another gamer - that to me is comparable to a blood brother borne in a foxhole in a war. The foxhole might be a dragon raid, and the blood brother might be a virtual priest avatar - but the bond can be identical I think. At the same time, the surreal worlds where we are all so much more than mere men working 9-5 is impossible to deny the simple attraction of. Any sense of hopelessnes, weakness, loss that you might experience in the real world is caused by a tangible entity in a game world - and is usually solved by severing the head of some dragon or god - would that it be so easy in real life - perhaps games would not hold the bond that they do.
Dad? Where have you been? I've been worried.
I have a few friends that play games this much. On consoles. The thing is, however, that it doesnt make them good. Console players IME tend to have a lot less 'skill'; ie- twitch reflexes and battlefield awareness.
I think that has little to do with who plays what and more to do with the environment they choose to play in. A PC gaming rig is much more likely, historically speaking, to have a higher fidelity in display, audio, and input devices.
I don't need a whole hand to count the number of console games that support multiple displays, and I'd wager more people use stereo instead of positional audio with their TV. A console is more likely to be played at a lower resolution on a bigger display, sitting back on a couch in a living room with the dog or other family distractions. Some console games I don't mind playing while lying down, which certainly isn't conducive to alertness, and I'm fine with falling asleep controller-in-hand. It's entertainment.
As a controller junkie I will choose developer sanctioned auto-aim assist rather than the grubby sandbox of PC aimbot mods. So game developers are the biggest influence in what skills are required by the player. I played flight sims in the days when, if you didn't own a Thrustmaster flight stick with its own dedicated controller card, you weren't serious. Then Freelancer came out and suddenly you could pilot with a mouse and frakking beat the game. That was unsettling. Flight sims haven't been the same since, because developers went mainstream and accessible. I think the RTS is still the only genre that truly benefits from a keyboard and mouse, because they haven't perfected radial menus yet, and even MMOs are getting menu accessible.
Moral of the story, play PC games if you want to have a challenge. Consoles are fun if you like games with stories.
Uhh.. Activision, PopCap and LucasArts would like to have a word with you...
I was worried that I was playing too much at around 10 hours per week. Thanks, hardcore people! I salute your lack of personal hygiene
I seriously don't get where you get all the content to raid 4-5 nights a week if you really were playing in a top guild.
The current pattern seems to be that hard mode progression takes about 4-5 days of intense raiding, and after that the schedule shrinks to one day of farming for a few hours. This has been the case with all the instances so far in the current expansion.
For those "rather good" guilds the situation is probably entirely different, but I can't remember the last time I've had to play for more than 8 hours a week after the first week of any new instance launch.
Speaking as someone who has both spent many years of my life as as an isolated gamer type (and a couple of times had to go on anti-depressants), and also some periods of my life actually going out and doing things.. I have to say that if you put as much effort into real life as you do into gaming, you would get far greater rewards.
I'm not saying you can't also play games and chat online as these things are fun and definitely still have an element of sociability, but if you joined some kind of real life club or spent some time doing exercise to level up your real body instead of your avatar, you'd be feeling a lot better both mentally and physically (the two are very linked anyway.. simply being more fit really helps your mood and concentration levels), and more able to cope with the "real world" you seem to be so scared of.
which is totally what she said
It sure is. My epiphany came one day when I realized it had been 2 years since I last picked up my guitar, something I was quite serious about before I started playing WoW. I quit cold turkey too. I've been back now and then since then to chat and fool around but I'm also one of those who wants to play at the so called top or not at all. Since the top is something I know I can't do anymore, I've hardly felt the pull at all. It's quite a nice thing that getting back on that hardcore raiding horse with WoW is not that easy. You can't just call your dealer in one second if you get the urge on a tuesday night. You have to put time in to catch up gearwise from where you where when you left off. Even if you manage that on your own (they've made it easier but having to grind heroics for badges with random idiots is an experience that can cure any addict) you have to find and apply to and convince a proper raid guild to take you in. So once you manage to quit for long enough, it's not something you can pick up again on an impulse since it's not just up to you. You'll still have quite a bit of time to consider what you're doing.
The technical gap you talk about is closing. Most consoles today (at least in the hardcore segment) ARE hooked up with surround sound, which every game nowadays utilizes and are played an a screen with 1920x1080 or at least 720p. The texture resolution is still a problem, though. Still: while console games DO have stuttering and inconsistent framerates, the problem is still bigger on PC (for the most part).
I play PC and Consoles, and yes i TRY to get comfy on the couch when playing PS or XBOX, but as alertness rises, i always find myself sitting on the edge of the couch :)
I completely agree with the point of developers controlling the skillrequirements. Back in the days when gaming was not THAT mainstream, games were made challenging to be a benchmark, todays games need to cater to a wider audience and its "Accessibility, accessibility, accessibility!"
http://www.hiwiller.com/2010/04/29/if-mario-was-designed-in-2010/
RL is just AFK brah, you know it.
I find that extremely hard to believe. The population of the US is about 300 million, and 174 million is more than half that. However, the average US family size is just over 3, two parents and a single child in the most common case. There is no way that over half the members of most US families play computer games, and that's before we factor in all the millions that live in poverty.
IMO that would improve drastically quality of games and the game community.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I think them nasty Gold miners, MMO - botters and WoW boxers skew that statistic.
Console players are not gamers! they are couch potatos!
They are also some of the most immature, loudmouthed, assholes on the planet.
Fuck fake computer consoles. Fuck console gamers.
Why play with others when you can play with yourself. That's what I do all the time!
I don't mean to one up you, but I feel I should share a story from the top 1%.
Speaking as someone who has both spent many years of my life as as an isolated gamer type (and a couple of times had to go on anti-depressants), and also some periods of my life actually going out and doing things.. I have to say that if you put as much effort into real life as you do into gaming, you would get far greater rewards.
Interesting, that the two replies to this post of mine take up such a small circle of people.
You haven't 1'up'ed me. Our guild was in the top 1% of guilds and has consistently been there. Server firsts, few world firsts, but at the same time, I have spent time on mood stabilizers (I have bipolar disorder - check the sig). At the same time, I have been someone who has been into online gaming since the days of Ultima Online, and have worked for Epic Games with the development of Unreal Tournament, so I have been "in as much as can be" in games and games development - but having said that, I can't help but totally agree with the second poster's comment which I have quoted below this:
I'm not saying you can't also play games and chat online as these things are fun and definitely still have an element of sociability, but if you joined some kind of real life club or spent some time doing exercise to level up your real body instead of your avatar, you'd be feeling a lot better both mentally and physically (the two are very linked anyway.. simply being more fit really helps your mood and concentration levels), and more able to cope with the "real world" you seem to be so scared of.
While I have been pouring my efforts into both online gaming and my RL work (which is currently a Senior Performance Analyst for a multinational retailer) I have noticed that for every hour I spend honing my e-toon, I can spend the same effort at work and increase my salary. You know all the stuff you do in your guild/clan? That works in RL too. Get a job in an office. They appreciate that common sense just as much and they pay you a lot more than your guild can offer - and in dollars, not in gold.
As someone who has been through both sides of the spectrum, I can just say, games are meant for entertainment. Play them, have fun, but don't confuse entertainment with real life.
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
Dad? Where have you been? I've been worried.
Good god, I wish I could mod and post int he same thread. That's the funniest thing I have read in weeks :)
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
I seriously don't get where you get all the content to raid 4-5 nights a week if you really were playing in a top guild.
The current pattern seems to be that hard mode progression takes about 4-5 days of intense raiding, and after that the schedule shrinks to one day of farming for a few hours. This has been the case with all the instances so far in the current expansion.
You don't get 25 people all the items they want in 4-5 days of intense raiding. it's not about getting your 1-2 items. Not to dis you here, but if you really were in a top raiding guild, you would have 25 people who knew each and every item they wanted, and they probably wanted 20 items - each working differently in a "set" as such - "i need items x,y,z, to work in such a set, but then when I get items - r,s,t,u I can get "xxx" benefit over my other set which is better overall" and so on.
Hard mode progression isn't just about getting a kill down once, it's about getting EVERYONE all the items that they want from each encounter.
So, not to be rude anon coward, but please fuck off with your 8 hours a week nonsense. Do yourself a favour and stop pugging your progression raiding. Get yourself some server or world firsts, and then understand all the effort that goes into them.
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
I "technically" play far more than 48 hours a week, but most of that is farming bots and autoplayers responding to attacks while I auto farm.
I did have a Xbox360 playing UTIII automatically once. I used a video capture card to detect basic elements like notice when a game was done and join a new one or was in game.. and it basically ran around randomly (gotta love bluetooth to make it easy to have linux-> xbox360 controls. Basically a python script.. not hard to do if you know python and look up the xbox360 hacking resources.
It kept joining games and playing for 4 days straight. My "rep" shot up like crazy as people added me to their Like list.
Honestly, games that require farming are not fun during the farming stages and automating that aspect makes the game fun again.
So if you looked at me "in game" I'm way WAY over what these guys are.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Yes and no. Gaming CAN be highly social and rewarding... I'm taking 4 player gaming at home or in a lanparty setup. Alone home in your underwear covered in cheetos dust surrounded by Bawls bottles... that is not as rewarding...
My racing group get's together to do gaming nights. we have 4 xbox 360s hooked to 4 55" plasmas and have a ball playing MWII and other games. when you can trash talk your buddy next to you, or throw things at the friend that is constantly lobbing grenades at your location and killing you 20 seconds after a spawn..... It's worth it.
It builds community within the group.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
you worked on UT?
You realize how much of my life you have sucked away with that game???
Too bad the franchize fell apart.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
until you've bought your first pack of adult diapers
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Yeah one of the most fun times of gaming I ever had was when they let us set up like 40 PCs to play some LAN games in the last week of term.. these days people tend to forego the local aspect because our connections are so much faster, but I definitely agree that if you can get a bunch of people over then it's more fun. Rock Band/Guitar Hero is really good for that if you only have one TV :P
which is totally what she said
Last I checked many console games are in the home theater setup. which always has far better speakers, properly set up surround sound, and at least a 900X better amplifier than any PC setup.
5.1 or 7.1 surround on a pc always balffled me. unless you set up a dedicated room, you cent set up the speakers right.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
And Sierra On-Line.
The old one who made the quests games, anyway.
I use a 5.1 surround headset, specifically the Razer Barracuda HP-1.
Hardly any console games are actually rendered at 720p... (claim to support != rendered at)
says the n00b who hasn't thrown out his back yet, or required knee/ankle surgery, etc.
exercise is more beneficial than not, but it certainly takes a toll on your body.
Hardly any is a bit harsh. Just because there are a few black sheep on out there (Halo, CoD) does not make them the majority.
I did this for about two years with an MMORPG (not WoW) and had completely rationalized it. Had to get away from it and go back to school.
"I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
It is times like this when I wish they would simply mention that they mean video gamers in the title. Because I know that between the various types of 'games' (card/board/video) I probably spend more than 40 hours a week doing it. Though it really depends on the particular week.
Why play with others when you can play with yourself.
Too many plugins required? ;)
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
I'm pretty sure it was a joke... ;-)
Good for both of you. I tried quitting WoW myself a number of times, and finally succeeded about 4 months ago. Along with that, I've stayed away from video games in general as much as possible. It's amazing how much better you feel about yourself when you realize that it IS possible to have a life outside of video games as a geek, no matter what the mockers tell you.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Back in the day me and my friends would all get together, get stoned, and play Quake or Mario Kart or whatever we had available. Now that we're older we all have separate tastes...one person is big into FPS, another is into RPG's, another is into RTS. We also have wives and families and don't have the space for 4+ networked systems in the living room anymore.
I'm not big into online gaming myself, but I can totally understand how games like WoW can bring people together who are in the same kind of situation.
The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
As someone who has been through both sides of the spectrum, I can just say, games are meant for entertainment. Play them, have fun, but don't confuse entertainment with real life.
For people who can't succeed at real life or don't think they can, the game world provides more sensation and reward than real life. You can be awesome, beautiful, an important person. In real life you are nobody but on the game server you are Sheldor the Conqueror. Pure escapism. MMO's are just a new twist on the whole thing but it's been a very old problem for quite some time. When I was a kid my escape was books, the local BBS scene, and many other solitary activities. People were difficult, confusing, and complicated.
I'm happy I'm not working on a gaming jones as described above but real life remains difficult, confusing, and complicated. I think the only difference between guild politics and office politics is... well, there isn't any. Human beings are awful creatures no matter what environment they're acting in.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Yes, it certainly takes a toll if you're Doing It Wrong, but you don't have to be so doom and gloom about everything. There are people in their 70/80s who run marathons for crying out loud. If you look after yourself properly then you don't have to destroy your body completely.
I've spent the last 6 months doing weights at the gym and haven't injured myself at all because I do proper stretches before and after, and don't push myself beyond what I know I'm capable of.
I've also been doing Parkour for the last month and yes I have had minor injuries each week, but that is no reason to not make use of my body.
I've broken bones in the past and injured myself plenty of times doing various things, but I'd rather do all those things again than limit myself to living vicariously through games, movies and books (as much as I enjoy all of those). I'm going to enjoy my body while I can. Perhaps I'll end up seriously hurting myself, perhaps I won't - but at least I'm enjoying life :)
which is totally what she said
haha.. no kidding.. I'm a 200lb buck-toothed, coke-bottle glasses wearing 39yr old. My avatar is from a set of pics from a local photography meetup group (including a variation on the model's name). When you Google my screen name pictures of this model shows up instead of my fat ass. I get emails every few hours from guys telling me that I'm not like other girls they know (wow, is that ever true).
i'm not all doom and gloom, but your 'exercise cures all' mentality is as ridiculous as when Tom Cruise recommended multi-vitamins to Brooke Shields to get over her postpartum depression.
if the guy is seriously depressed, exercise won't do shit.
By this I gather you mean it's not fun unless you're one of the better players. I find it very annoying a casual gamer like myself can't have a good match because the people online are simply too good. I can see why they feel compelled to play and play for hours per day. I am playing Forza 3 on XBox 360 and the only way to have a good game is to arrange a private match with fellow casual gamers (which is hard). Why isn't there a ladder system!? My brother just sold his copy of Modern Warfare for the same reason - even playing for ~4 hrs / week wasn't cutting it. So, most of my playing is splitscreen Star Wars Battlefront with my son on the PS2.
Hasn't the Nintendo proven that there's a big market for casual gamers? The online matchmaking services need to better support us instead of just catering to the vocal hardcore gamers this article is about. I pay the same for XBox Live as anybody else; and on an hour-to-hour basis, far more.
I never said exercise cures all, but from experience I can safely say that it will definitely assist even those who are "seriously depressed", but only if they are at the stage where they are wanting to help themselves rather than being so far gone that they don't even want to move ever again kind of thing. I'm not trying to be patronising, I'm saying what has proven to be helpful to me and enabled me to actually enjoy life again for the first time in probably 12 years.
As I said, body and mind are clearly linked. Just getting fit obviously won't sort all your mental problems, but it certainly creates a better environment for positive thinking by improving your self confidence, concentration and performance and just generally having your body work the way it's meant to.
Multivitamins - not exactly a cure for depression no, but if your diet is lacking in vitamins then sure your body will stop working as well as it could. If you feel like shit for long enough you can end up with co-morbid depression.
A sedentary lifestyle pretty much only has negative effects on the human body. You don't have to be working out so hard that you're wrecking your body to be fit btw. I got relatively fit (compared to your average person) just by going for regular walks every couple of days. I then decided that I wanted to go further, but that's just me. I don't want to be one of those old people you see shuffling around, barely able to support their own weight. I'd much rather be one of the ones who is still physically and mentally active enough to go out running if they wanted to.
which is totally what she said
8-9 hour raids.
Surely you've forgotten the cleric epics in sky fire and Fear.
We raided Fear 39 hours straight over memorial day weekend in 2003 (4?). Every 14 hours. We could predict the order the mobs would spawn in. It was a brutal, brutal break.
I left work twice and woke up sometime in the early AM once for cleric epics in Skyfire. Then there were the little casual things like the 20+ hours spent getting jboots and similar insane quests with drop rates over 12 hours. No quest step in EQ should have taken over 2 hours. Sure- make it a 96 hour quest, but make it 48 2 hour chunks. Not five 12-20 hour chunks.
I regularly played over 60 hours a week while working a full time job. I kept playing when my hands went numb and my forearms were killing me from tendonitis.
I finally went uber at the end, saw everything in the game, and then quit as my right thumb blew out with bursitis.
I learned things from the experience that benefited my career.
I was in a "casual guild." We raided 3 days a week, 6 hours a day then probably played another 18 hours a week. It drove the true uber players crazy for the lack of serious play. The play schedule drove truly casual players insane too. They just couldn't keep up but they wanted the uber rewards.
I also learned that if I get in an activity like this again- go uber from the start. It's actually less effort, less betrayal, less "we'll always be buds", etc.
It's often much easier there on the leading edge of the game. Heck, we had the dev's go back after 24 months and make a specific encounter in Uqua impossible to beat for about 3 months. It just about killed the guild. Several people gave up.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Now i've got something MUCH more challenging to worry about: Girlfriend. :)
There, fixed that for you.
Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
[...] I have to say that if you put as much effort into real life as you do into gaming, you would get far greater rewards.
I actually disagree with this point. The reason why certain aspects of MMORPGs are so addictive is because of the link between effort and reward. In WoW if you spend x amount of time performing your profession you WILL get to 450/450. People see the link between how much time they spend doing something and the reward that comes from it: something that is not guaranteed in life.
For example, no matter how much time I try I doubt I'll ever become a professional sports player. I've played soccer for probably 17 years of my life and have won medals on a provincial level. But no matter how hard I will not make it professionally. I have had numerous ankle injuries (breaks and multiple sprains) as well as acute asthma that prevent me from becoming a hardcore sprinter. Here, I could put 5 years of effort into practice and training but I'll bet you $50 that I'll still be in the same place I am now, if not slightly further ahead. Here the link between effort and reward is broken as a simple reality comes into play that some don't find out until their 30's... just because mommy told you that "you can do whatever you want in life" it doesn't make it true.
Playing 40 hours a week of Wolfenstein Enemy Territory was my highlight. Then WoW came and no more pleasant sound of ding ding ding.
That would leave me about 19 hours a week to: interact with my wife and kids, clean, go shopping and work on school!
I guess I should learn to seriously multitask if I want to get everything done!
FWIW -
168 hours in a week
40 hours of work.
5 hours of lunch at work.
6 hours of sleep a night during the week (30 hours).
8 hours of sleep a night on the weekend (16 hours).
10 hours of travel time to and from work during the week.
That's 101 hours.
Add 48 hours of gaming.
That leaves 19 hours for eating, bathing, family, shopping, sex, and school (not in that order).
Sorry, I have a few things better to do than spend 48 hours gaming. Hell, I'm lucky enough to get six hours a week. Now, prior to being married I was easily gaming 50+ hours a week... but, priorities change.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
Agreed. EQ1 was hardcore. I took up WoW on the weekends when I was an EQ1 raider just to have a break. Moreover, WoW lets you get away with soloing, EQ1 didn't really leave that as a viable option. There were very few places (and very few classes even then) that could solo reasonably effectively and get rewarded for it. This led to boxing. Before I finally quit I was running 4 characters at once and raiding with my main character 4-5 nights a week for 5+ hours a night. The weekends were for gaining experience (the AA system is the devil in EQ) and otherwise supporting my main character. I'm glad to have done with all of it. I've been off of EQ for over a year now and free of a WoW addiction for eight months.
WoW is to methadone as EQ is to heroin.
IDK, but I think you were supposed to put some numbers in there, too...
I doubt that many play "computer" games (the summary said "gamer" not "computer gamer"). However, I have no trouble believing that many people play video games at least casually. They might be PC gamers, console gamers, or they might have a portable gaming system like a DS or something. Don't forget that cell phones also include games now too.
Also, don't forget that not everyone lives in a 2 parents and a single child household. What about those that are retired? Those whose kids have moved out? Singles? You mentioned the average family size, but that's not exactly the same thing as the average household size.
The demographics for gamers has changed quite a bit over the last couple decades. The average video gamer is about 30 years old now. Many gamers are old enough to have children (and grandchildren). If the parents still like games, the chances of them accepting video gaming in their kids is probably even greater.
At our current course, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if in another generation that playing video games being close to as being ubiquitous as watching TV is now. It might even surpass TV.
Quit gettin' mad at video games.
an hour if you want to do a random daily and get the extra badgers. Badgers? We don't need no stinkin' badgers!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Actually I agree with the AC more, even in a guild that was only in the top 100~'s of NA guilds once we had an instance clear in an expansion raid times got damn quick. You could clear all the useful content in 1 night of raiding, sometimes a second to pick up a last boss or two you missed. The really good guilds could knock it out in one night. Once people know strats and you can chain pull the trash all the way through clear times dropped dramatically. This is all directed at WoW, but as someone who lead a guild that got all the server firsts other then gruul/magtheridon in TBC, you're wrong in trying to speak for all guilds, The AC is right about most good guilds. Look at EJ or other world first guilds schedules, they do a burst for a week or two tops when new content is released then settle into 1-2 farm nights until the next content patch.
All my characters in Gates of Andaron are female fairies. I don't know what that says about me, except that I plan to turn them over to my daughter when they get to a high enough level. She actually has FUN playing games, rather then being results-oriented like I am. When her imp in WoW told her "Give me a break!" she took him swimming, because "he needed a break." I have however had to ban her from social games like IMVU or Second Life -- she was picking up too many boys. Remember: that "hot chick" avatar might not be an old fat guy, it might actually be a 9 year old girl... you don't want to meet either IRL.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I used to play at least 40 hours, I'd say closer to 60 hours. Now that I don't play I love when a new expansion comes out, I just think of all the time I won't be spending trying to level back up and get new shiny, crappy, stupid pretend items. Once you're out of the grip, you can breathe again (or maybe that has to do with a regular shower schedule due to the 60 now free hours).
if you spend x amount of time performing your profession you WILL get to 450/450
That's a lot of the reason I find these "games" so pointless. A lot of it is simply a time investment and nothing more. Some things in real life are simply a time investment too, but your actual achievements definitely do mean a lot more if they're not guaruanteed. But basic things like strength training or healthy eating are guaranteed to have results where you can get to "450/450" if you want to. Just certain other things like success in business require actual ability, and sometimes an element of luck.
What you say about being a professional athlete is true. But the same applies to gaming. Some people will simply never be able to become professional. games either because they lack the ability. Some people would be capable of working towards it if they put enough effort in. I'm not saying you can definitely rise to the top in anything you do, but I'm saying that a lot of people never even try. You yourself have won medals because you put a lot of effort into soccer, you are probably literally in the top 5% of anyone on earth right now who enjoys playing soccer. To me that's much more of an achievement than doing something as simple and guaranteed as getting to level 80 in WoW.
which is totally what she said
You type that post as if you're *proud* of it. Christ, man.
Comment of the year
Thank you for fixing that, I don't know how I could have missed that. I mean, a big building where I learn interesting things while surrounded by young nubile horny women... vs having my balls squeezed in a garlic press for slips of the mind and tongue? No contest! What the hell WAS I thinking? ;)
...like an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.
:)
Very challenging
Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
http://gamerwidow.com/
Finally, there's hope and healing.
A sedentary lifestyle is not a cause of depression, it is a symptom of depression.
Now, with mild depression, people can sometimes break out of it on their own, using a variety of methods, anything that keeps them from focusing on the fact they are depressed. Although going out with friends or starting a hobby is probably as good as exercise.
And as going to see a movie and going for a run would have the same effect on mild depression, but the latter has the built in excuse of the person being 'tired' so they can come up with an excuse not to do it, it is probably a saner idea to start with a 'getting out and doing things' idea that don't require a lot of work to fight mild depression.
Note my emphasis on 'mild' for all that. A lot of depression is not treatable without, at minimum, therapy, or even drugs.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
So you went from World of WarCraft to Guitar Hero. Isn't that more of a lateral move?
(just kidding)
I wonder what the health status of these gamers is. Especially with the fact that this generation is the first one to have a life expectancy lower than that of their parents. All contributed to by lack of exercise, a diet of refined carbs, high-fructose corn syrup sweetened beverages and fast food, the meat of which is feed an extremely unhealty diet of fattening corn for the last 180 days of it's life.
48hrs of sitting each week in addition to school and/or work makes for an extremely sedentary lifestyle. I'm guessing not one of these 4% gamers cook their own food from scratch and most likely subsist on a diet of fast food and soda.
USA! USA! USA!
"Everyone who has accomplished more than me in a game has no life. Everyone who has accomplished less is a noob."
Wait..the article mentions hardcore gamers playing on consoles and buying 14 games a month at a cost of $1000 or more. You are playing ONE game for 40 hours a week. That's different because you aren't hardcore...you just play a game that is known to be a huge time sink.
No, a sedentary lifestyle is just a result of our modern society, and believe me, when you go get regular exercise it makes you generally less tired and more full of energy. The only times I get tired these days are when I don't get enough sleep. Even after the gym I don't feel "tired", I just feel relaxed. Exercise gets your body producing energy from stored reserves, so as long as you are eating okay it's fine.
Sure, serious depression is not directly treatable by any of this stuff, but I now firmly believe from my own experience that anyone who makes an effort to get their shit together physically is going to have a lot better chance of keeping it together mentally. It gives you a sense of control, confidence and wellbeing.
which is totally what she said
Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger mushroom mushroom...
O M F G. Something more addictive than a hard core drug, and it's not even a drug. Not even slashdot is that addictive.
That story is awesome. Thanks for sharing it. It only confirms my decision to never, ever play an MMO. An FPS clan is bad enough - being part of one nearly caused me to drop out of college. We competed at a similar level too. With such a situation, not only do you have the draw of the challenge of the online sport, able to be played at a moment's notice, with an intense amount of fun and adrenalin, you've got all your friends clamoring for you to get online with them. I'm guessing that with drugs like meth and heroin, you wouldn't have your friends calling you up as what happens with computer games.
And that's without the draw of an RPG - they endless "one more level" and "one more quest". At least every map on an FPS you have played before. It will still be there the next day. I remember talking to graduated engineers that had lost their jobs because of addiction to Evercrack. No thanks. It was telling that most of the members of another FPS clan we were friends with dropped out of college the next year. And these are people who would probably be at the top of their field and earning good money if they were born say, 10 years earlier.
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
I'm not sure why you think you're disagreeing with me. What you said in the first paragraph has nothing to do with what I said. I at no pointed argued that exercise wasn't a good idea in general for people, or that it actually makes people tied.
Although, as I said, while any sort of activity that requires people going out and interacting with people is a good idea to fight mild depression, exercise is essentially the stupidest suggestion there, considering one of the symptoms of depression is a general sense of tiredness. Ergo, it's much much too easy for the depressed person to come up with a reason not to exercise, when that same excuse wouldn't stop, for example, seeing a movie.
To actually fight depression, it's just as useful for them to go out every day, and sit, alone, eating in a fast food restaurant, and it's a hell of a lot easier for depressed people to make themselves actually do. Same level of interaction, a lot more likely to happen.
Depression is not caused by unhealthiness, and 'having your shit together physically' won't do anything about it.
It is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, and it is a spiral downward that can be fought, for mild cases, by actively focusing on other things. Those other things can be exercise, or, well, anything. Mildly depressed people should figure out something they 'like' to do (Although they're not doing it currently because, duh, depressed.) and 'force' themselves to do it, and it's best if this involves other people. If this is exercise, whatever, but that's a stupid suggestion to someone who's not used to it.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
I guess I'm not disagreeing overall, just on some specifics because my own experience of depression differs from what you are saying. That may be because the constant mood problems I've had throughout my life are to do with blood sugar regulation though, and exercise definitely helps out in this regard.
which is totally what she said
I'm the AC from above, actually I helped farm 2 Water Sprinklers - I definitely remember Skyfire :) I was also a Ranger, so part of the reason I was always helping with water sprinklers was to get Clerics to help me farm my Swirling Sphere of Corruption or w/e it was from Plane of Hate for my Earthguard epic :)
I remember Uqua too :)
Some insane part of me misses Uqua though, because our rival guild at the time had gotten there way faster than we did, but when we finally hit Uqua we a) finished Ikkinz 4 that night around the end of raid time, then decided to go in and check it out with people who all decided to stay on after raid time, we dropped twins that night, and Barxt the next day - and suddenly we had caught right back to their tail.
Actually exercise is something I do very frequently. Originally when I got into EQ1 I was in highschool (a secret most of my guild never knew, they believed I was in college), I was very into martial arts and rowing. The trick is a) not sleeping, and b) not going to class.
When I eventually ended up in university (where I still am after 6.5 years) I dropped my sports activities but incorporated exercise into my gameplay. For example, get on a griffin with a 3 minute flight time? Do 3 minutes of situps, or squats, or pushups. If you are getting on a griffin or waiting for a dungeon queue or have a break in raid-time you can be very fit by playing MMO's.
The other aspect is nutrition , which my mom got me into when I was young and I've carried over.
I do wish I had a higher return interest than video games at times, but I can't think of one I would enjoy more. It's pretty difficult to out-entertain a fantasy world created specifically for your enjoyment du jour. I'm content, if socially dysfunctional: I have no regrets.
Does that make me an extreme TV watcher? Or just a couch potato?