Yes. Always. Not only does it nail down your timing, it also is a measurement of your progress (if building your chops, you need a way to quantify, for example, how many single strokes you can play in one minute)
I've played in a band that was sequenced so heavily, the only real instrumentalists were me on drums and the lead guitarist (who would drink beer up until the guitar solo every song).
The only reason most bands use a click track is if your drummer can't hold a tempo.
ABSOLUTELY not true. The main reason bands use a click track depends on the situation, but all session drummers can play to a click. In a live environment lots of stuff is sequenced. You HAVE to be playing to a click (and the rest of the band hears the same click) to be in sequence with the sequencer (duh), otherwise the band doesn't play the right notes when the computer plays its part. I'm not a studio guy, but if an engineer demands it, and somebody is paying you, you should probably use the click track. If you are being paid as a session musician, then I seriously doubt you have a tempo problem requiring a click in the first place.
More telling is the drummer who CAN'T play to a click track is the guy who has tempo problems.
You can blame a specific genre of every era for that, but on the other hand, I can pretty much name excellent music from any era just as easily. The main problem is that back in the 70s and early 80s, great music also made the charts. We still have great music now, it just doesn't make the charts as frequently as it did back in the day. While the 70s and 80s had their one hit gimmicks, hair bands and disco, there were still a lot of good tunes (that are still good today) in Simon, Taylor, the Cars, Petty, AC/DC, etc. etc. I highly doubt there will be any longevity with the current crop of hip-hop and generic rock (as compared to the 70s, 80s and early 90s).
But it is a business. Music is as designed, packaged and sold as cosmetics are.
I couldn't disagree more. For every plastic-wrapped Britney Spears or generic Nashville pretty-girl-country star there are 100 unknown, unsigned musicians out there playing venues every night of the week. They are doing it partly as a 'business', but not THE Nashville/LA-based business we are all condemning here. Then for every guy slugging it out every night in small bars, there are millions more like me who play for beer at our local blues bar.
Wait, I thought the industry didn't lose any money on p2p, because people who steal...err, borrow songs wouldn't have purchased them in the first place?
Actually, I can say the opposite. After about 4 clicks you don't even really hear the click anymore. If you are playing well, your playing will drown out the click anyways. If your playing is bad, you'll hear he click a lot, because you are not on tempo. If you aren't hearing the song, then you need to practice playing with a click more.
I shudder every time non-drummers name Keith Moon as one of the best drummers...man that guy was pure slop. I've been playings drums for 25 years now, and I've yet to hear another drummer praise Keith Moon.
If you are playing with competent musicians (and you are a competent drummer) then they'll know to adjust to the drums, since they are locked to the click. I played for three years to a click/sequencer, and the only "disaster" we ever experienced is when my ear piece fell out (sweaty) and my floor monitor wasn't loud enough for me to hear what was going on.
Hey, finally, a conversation that I can feel truly involved in (other that the occasional arguments over tech in education).
I am a drummer and I've made TONS of money playing live gigs. I was in a band for three years that played to a click track, but not just for tempo--we played with a sequencer too. The click is practically required to ensure the entire band kicks off together.
The sterile argument is BS. Sterile drumming comes from sterile drummers--click or no. The click doesn't keep you constrained to playing right to the click--you can play slightly ahead or behind, or dead in the pocket--whatever the music requires. More importantly to how not sterile your drumming sounds is your raport with the bassist anyway.
I take a shower every day. I've never had a problem with lint in my belly button. I have a hairy belly button. I am not fat. Thus, the story should read "fat traps lint", or "people who don't shower accumulate crap in their body creases."
If I understand the intent of your comment, you are completely off base. I assume you are inferring that I'm espousing an out-dated/old-fashioned ideology? Well, 'technology' has been a mythical education panacea since the 1950s and it hasn't proven its worth yet. Far too many studies to cite here...No number of random slashdot guy posts will change this fact. Not very many teachers are on slashdot, or even into technology, because, surprise, they might have OTHER interests and don't have a lot of time to devote to technology. There is nothing "lazy" about being a teacher, having a family, and NOT having time to learn the latest Linux commands.
Where our schools suffer (in the US) is that we have a curriculum that panders to to the low end at the expense of the high end, or vice-versa. What we end up with is a very large 50th percentile with very few in the 90th and above (bell-curve against "standards-based education"). A tiered-education system would fix this, where all the top kids would not be distracted by less-than-challenging schoolwork. It would also put the at-risk kids in a better position to succeed, since the curriculum could be tailored to their level. This way ALL scores would improve, not just the bottom-tier like we get now with NCLB.
We also have a reality check problem in thinking that ALL our kids can go to college, which only sets a bunch of kids up for failure.
You don't teach writing by showing how to use Office, you teach it by making students write and correct them.
That's right Falcon! There's a growing movement for I2 (Integrated Inter-disciplinary) Curriculum. I have one published for German. The basic concept is kids get two grades for one project. In mine, students use Apple's iLife software (free if your school is Mac-based) to create a German Exchange Program. They post information about themselves (in German) on a website, take a head/shoulder portrait for their profile, fire up a chat window, etc. etc. Each task requires German skill AND technology skill. If the student can properly write in German, they have to also demonstrate the capability to word process, upload to web server, insert.html, etc. etc. They aren't left in the dark, as they take a technology class to teach the technology bits too. At the end of the project they get a German grade (based on the quality of the German components) and a Technology grade. That way they are accurately graded in the respective discipline and they also start making the cognitive connection of using technology to accomplish something, instead of just learning technology for technology's sake.
That's the right answer! Unfortunately, you'd be putting the teachers on the spot. They have to understand "why" before they can teach students the "why". When you don't know "why", you just teach the steps in the book and call it "education".
which is critical in the workplace since 99% of workplaces uses Windows extensively.
Teaching a kid how to employ technology to solve a problem or to improve learning has nothing to do with what OS they are using. What you are advocating is teaching kids to learn Windows so they can make money using Windows, which is why we are in such a conundrum of 90% MS OSes in the first place. Save windows-specific education for kids studying computer science.
That's because you don't know how to use a spell-checker. "Cirriculum" is a word. "Curriculum" is a word, but a different word entirely. Your Mac Mini has no way of knowing which word you meant to use, so therefore it isn't really that funny after all.
Employers don't care (and probably won't even know) if you went to 2 years of community college before transferring to a state college. Employer's probably don't even care WHERE you went to college (yes, I know, unpopular belief on/.), only that you finished (and how you finished in some cases, but even that is rare).
Here in Austin, Texas, kids on the college track are taking classes at Austin Community College during regular school hours and getting credit towards a bachelors degree. My wife, for example, had two years of undergrad credits finished by the time she graduated high school. She then finished her BS degree in two years, followed by her masters a year and a half later, followed by unemployment, because nobody wants to hire a 21-year old masters holder. She's now in her 30s and making masters degree salary, and nobody even knows or cares how she got there.
If you want to put a different spin on it, you could argue that it is actually smarter to go to a Community College for two years, because you pay much less for the pretty-much-useless low-level classes you HAVE to take. Your class schedule will be far more flexible, allowing you to work and help cover the costs of living. You'll also be more "grown up" and responsible by the time you hit the meat of your degree plan and have a lower risk of dropping out than had you entered right into the local State (Party) School.
Why do people always include room and board for college costs? A kid has to have a place to sleep and food to eat even if they AREN'T going to college!
So you spent an entire post trying to disagree with the previous post because his figure was $247 higher than yours? I think I missed the entire point of your post then.
Being able to use a computer, and being able to develop a strong curriculum and motivate children to learn are not related (unless you are a computer science teacher).
...doesn't have any business instructing the future leaders of tomorrow.
That's the REAL problem with the US system--we think every kid is a future leader. Instead of a pragmatic Education system like Germany, we tell all our little princes and princesses that they are super-special. So when our bell-curve comes out just like the rest of bell-curves throughout the history of mankind, we are somehow surprised?
While it is true that computers CAN help the learning process, there is far more evidence that show our schools aren't implementing the right curriculum to take advantage of that. Most studies I've read for my MA Ed/Computer Instruction show that there is basically no difference between learning with, or without technology aids. This isn't to say technology is bad--it is more an indictment of the skills our teachers and administrators don't have.
Hello, this is 1995. I want my Desktop Publishing, Graphic Design, and Web Design industries back. I was ok with a few talented artsy types who were devoted to their craft, but since AOL and Win95, any dweeb with a keyboard can churn out crap for the sake of ad-clicks.
I guess it's Sony's call on this one. Let anyone develop and you get what you deserve. Make it hard for talented developers to develop, you get what you deserve. There's gotta be a happy medium in there somewhere.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes. Always. Not only does it nail down your timing, it also is a measurement of your progress (if building your chops, you need a way to quantify, for example, how many single strokes you can play in one minute)
I've played in a band that was sequenced so heavily, the only real instrumentalists were me on drums and the lead guitarist (who would drink beer up until the guitar solo every song).
The only reason most bands use a click track is if your drummer can't hold a tempo.
ABSOLUTELY not true. The main reason bands use a click track depends on the situation, but all session drummers can play to a click. In a live environment lots of stuff is sequenced. You HAVE to be playing to a click (and the rest of the band hears the same click) to be in sequence with the sequencer (duh), otherwise the band doesn't play the right notes when the computer plays its part. I'm not a studio guy, but if an engineer demands it, and somebody is paying you, you should probably use the click track. If you are being paid as a session musician, then I seriously doubt you have a tempo problem requiring a click in the first place.
More telling is the drummer who CAN'T play to a click track is the guy who has tempo problems.
You can blame a specific genre of every era for that, but on the other hand, I can pretty much name excellent music from any era just as easily. The main problem is that back in the 70s and early 80s, great music also made the charts. We still have great music now, it just doesn't make the charts as frequently as it did back in the day. While the 70s and 80s had their one hit gimmicks, hair bands and disco, there were still a lot of good tunes (that are still good today) in Simon, Taylor, the Cars, Petty, AC/DC, etc. etc. I highly doubt there will be any longevity with the current crop of hip-hop and generic rock (as compared to the 70s, 80s and early 90s).
But it is a business. Music is as designed, packaged and sold as cosmetics are.
I couldn't disagree more. For every plastic-wrapped Britney Spears or generic Nashville pretty-girl-country star there are 100 unknown, unsigned musicians out there playing venues every night of the week. They are doing it partly as a 'business', but not THE Nashville/LA-based business we are all condemning here. Then for every guy slugging it out every night in small bars, there are millions more like me who play for beer at our local blues bar.
It(music industry) may not survive p2p sharing
Wait, I thought the industry didn't lose any money on p2p, because people who steal...err, borrow songs wouldn't have purchased them in the first place?
Actually, I can say the opposite. After about 4 clicks you don't even really hear the click anymore. If you are playing well, your playing will drown out the click anyways. If your playing is bad, you'll hear he click a lot, because you are not on tempo. If you aren't hearing the song, then you need to practice playing with a click more.
I shudder every time non-drummers name Keith Moon as one of the best drummers...man that guy was pure slop. I've been playings drums for 25 years now, and I've yet to hear another drummer praise Keith Moon.
and if you get out of sync it must be disastrous!
If you are playing with competent musicians (and you are a competent drummer) then they'll know to adjust to the drums, since they are locked to the click. I played for three years to a click/sequencer, and the only "disaster" we ever experienced is when my ear piece fell out (sweaty) and my floor monitor wasn't loud enough for me to hear what was going on.
Hey, finally, a conversation that I can feel truly involved in (other that the occasional arguments over tech in education).
I am a drummer and I've made TONS of money playing live gigs. I was in a band for three years that played to a click track, but not just for tempo--we played with a sequencer too. The click is practically required to ensure the entire band kicks off together.
The sterile argument is BS. Sterile drumming comes from sterile drummers--click or no. The click doesn't keep you constrained to playing right to the click--you can play slightly ahead or behind, or dead in the pocket--whatever the music requires. More importantly to how not sterile your drumming sounds is your raport with the bassist anyway.
Lint in your belly button is a problem--a hygiene one.
I take a shower every day. I've never had a problem with lint in my belly button. I have a hairy belly button. I am not fat. Thus, the story should read "fat traps lint", or "people who don't shower accumulate crap in their body creases."
Welcome to 1985.
If I understand the intent of your comment, you are completely off base. I assume you are inferring that I'm espousing an out-dated/old-fashioned ideology? Well, 'technology' has been a mythical education panacea since the 1950s and it hasn't proven its worth yet. Far too many studies to cite here...No number of random slashdot guy posts will change this fact. Not very many teachers are on slashdot, or even into technology, because, surprise, they might have OTHER interests and don't have a lot of time to devote to technology. There is nothing "lazy" about being a teacher, having a family, and NOT having time to learn the latest Linux commands.
Where our schools suffer (in the US) is that we have a curriculum that panders to to the low end at the expense of the high end, or vice-versa. What we end up with is a very large 50th percentile with very few in the 90th and above (bell-curve against "standards-based education"). A tiered-education system would fix this, where all the top kids would not be distracted by less-than-challenging schoolwork. It would also put the at-risk kids in a better position to succeed, since the curriculum could be tailored to their level. This way ALL scores would improve, not just the bottom-tier like we get now with NCLB.
We also have a reality check problem in thinking that ALL our kids can go to college, which only sets a bunch of kids up for failure.
You don't teach writing by showing how to use Office, you teach it by making students write and correct them.
That's right Falcon! There's a growing movement for I2 (Integrated Inter-disciplinary) Curriculum. I have one published for German. The basic concept is kids get two grades for one project. In mine, students use Apple's iLife software (free if your school is Mac-based) to create a German Exchange Program. They post information about themselves (in German) on a website, take a head/shoulder portrait for their profile, fire up a chat window, etc. etc. Each task requires German skill AND technology skill. If the student can properly write in German, they have to also demonstrate the capability to word process, upload to web server, insert .html, etc. etc. They aren't left in the dark, as they take a technology class to teach the technology bits too. At the end of the project they get a German grade (based on the quality of the German components) and a Technology grade. That way they are accurately graded in the respective discipline and they also start making the cognitive connection of using technology to accomplish something, instead of just learning technology for technology's sake.
That's the right answer! Unfortunately, you'd be putting the teachers on the spot. They have to understand "why" before they can teach students the "why". When you don't know "why", you just teach the steps in the book and call it "education".
which is critical in the workplace since 99% of workplaces uses Windows extensively.
Teaching a kid how to employ technology to solve a problem or to improve learning has nothing to do with what OS they are using. What you are advocating is teaching kids to learn Windows so they can make money using Windows, which is why we are in such a conundrum of 90% MS OSes in the first place. Save windows-specific education for kids studying computer science.
That's because you don't know how to use a spell-checker. "Cirriculum" is a word. "Curriculum" is a word, but a different word entirely. Your Mac Mini has no way of knowing which word you meant to use, so therefore it isn't really that funny after all.
Employers don't care (and probably won't even know) if you went to 2 years of community college before transferring to a state college. Employer's probably don't even care WHERE you went to college (yes, I know, unpopular belief on /.), only that you finished (and how you finished in some cases, but even that is rare).
Here in Austin, Texas, kids on the college track are taking classes at Austin Community College during regular school hours and getting credit towards a bachelors degree. My wife, for example, had two years of undergrad credits finished by the time she graduated high school. She then finished her BS degree in two years, followed by her masters a year and a half later, followed by unemployment, because nobody wants to hire a 21-year old masters holder. She's now in her 30s and making masters degree salary, and nobody even knows or cares how she got there.
If you want to put a different spin on it, you could argue that it is actually smarter to go to a Community College for two years, because you pay much less for the pretty-much-useless low-level classes you HAVE to take. Your class schedule will be far more flexible, allowing you to work and help cover the costs of living. You'll also be more "grown up" and responsible by the time you hit the meat of your degree plan and have a lower risk of dropping out than had you entered right into the local State (Party) School.
Why do people always include room and board for college costs? A kid has to have a place to sleep and food to eat even if they AREN'T going to college!
Where did this $32,000 figure come from? According to the American Federation of Teachers, beginning teachers with a bachelor's degree earned an average of $31,753 in the 2004-05 school year.
So you spent an entire post trying to disagree with the previous post because his figure was $247 higher than yours? I think I missed the entire point of your post then.
...doesn't have any business instructing the future leaders of tomorrow.
That's the REAL problem with the US system--we think every kid is a future leader. Instead of a pragmatic Education system like Germany, we tell all our little princes and princesses that they are super-special. So when our bell-curve comes out just like the rest of bell-curves throughout the history of mankind, we are somehow surprised?
While it is true that computers CAN help the learning process, there is far more evidence that show our schools aren't implementing the right curriculum to take advantage of that. Most studies I've read for my MA Ed/Computer Instruction show that there is basically no difference between learning with, or without technology aids. This isn't to say technology is bad--it is more an indictment of the skills our teachers and administrators don't have.
Hello, this is 1995. I want my Desktop Publishing, Graphic Design, and Web Design industries back. I was ok with a few talented artsy types who were devoted to their craft, but since AOL and Win95, any dweeb with a keyboard can churn out crap for the sake of ad-clicks.
I guess it's Sony's call on this one. Let anyone develop and you get what you deserve. Make it hard for talented developers to develop, you get what you deserve. There's gotta be a happy medium in there somewhere.
Sham litigation, eh? They're gonna love the shamwow/slapchop guys nuts.
Hey, if you can't make it with the quality of your product, just make sure you are in the news a lot.