CableCARD doesn't provide any interface for the device it's installed in to get guide data - that's a totally separate function. You might be able to get channel information via PSIP data streams, but the normal guide data channels are via some proprietary means (digital cable boxes, TiVo's guide data downloads, etc.).
If you mean so-called "impulse PPV," i.e., order with your remote, then yes; this requires two-way communication, and CableLabs will currently *only* license OCAP devices for two-way CableCARD functionality. If you don't like that, call the FCC, call your congressman, do something - try to get the FCC to step in and force CableLabs to open up two-way CableCARD licensing.
CableCARD is two-way - even the S-Cards had support for two-way communication. The limiting factor is not the cards, but the licensing - CableLabs requires that anyone who wants to implement bidirectional CableCARD devices implement OCAP. OCAP is, unfortunately, an evil, evil system, preventing any company making a box (like, say, TiVo) from running their own software directly on their own hardware - they'd have to get it CableLabs licensed, get it distributed to all the major cable MSOs, and get them to make it available at a reasonable (additional monthly) cost to the people using their boxes. Read this for more about what's wrong with OCAP.
And yes, PCI cards (referred to as OCUR, or OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver) cards, are available that can accept a CableCARD - unfortunately (a) they are only available as part of a specially licensed OEM system, and (b) so far, they don't seem to actually *work*. Awesome.
If people who don't have sex are smarter, how are we going to keep the earth populated with people to be smarter than ?
I don't think we are. Except for a few lucky outliers whose genes happen to be "just right", the majority are going to be "average". But wasn't it proven that even if a child has two parents of above average intelligence, that doesn't mean that they're going to be of above average intelligence themselves? So the meme that smart people should breed, if I'm remembering correctly, would be pointless?
No, actually there was a POSIX subsystem prior to the Interix acquisition. It wasn't very good, and was rarely used, but it was there since NT 3.1. The given reason (government contracts requiring POSIX compliance) makes sense, given the quality of it. Interix offers the POSIX API layer, but also a good breadth of UNIX tools - the old POSIX layer was just an API shim on top of the NT internals allowing code written to the POSIX APIs to run on NT.
No, the cableco DVRs are the unreliable jalopies - no features, unreliable, leaving you stranded when you really want to be somewhere else. TiVo is more expensive, but it's *reliable* - the cableco DVRs are anything but, and the cable companies know it. They don't care.
Get an eSATA drive - it's well documented how to marry the drive to a Series3 TiVo, and it sounds like the same procedure works on the new TiVo HD as well. I got an eSATA 500 GB drive for mine, and it's wonderful.
Re:Three quick easy ways for TIVO to Dominate...
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The Trouble With TiVo
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· Score: 1
I'm sure TiVo would love it (although Amazon's Unbox division wouldn't). But CableLabs has been dragging its feet on it (so there's no standard approved yet) and it will be a long time after the standard is complete before you see cable companies actually making cards available. And even then it may not be possible for TiVo to use them, given CableLabs' licensing terms.
Actually, CableCARD already supports two way communication - but CableLabs won't certify anything for it unless it implements OCAP. OCAP is pure evil, totally gutting the purpose of CableCARD, making any third party box just another host for their crappy software - the box vendor can't run their own software directly on their own box. This explains better than I can about the evil, nasty, insidious twisting of the DVB standard that is OCAP - and why no consumer-electronics vendor worth a crap wants anything to do with it.
Except anything in HD (or SD digital cable) where 5C encryption's applied - unfortunately until ATI, or Microsoft, or whoever fixes that problem, your Windows Media Center DVR box can't use a CableCARD, so those programs are off the menu.
Yes, Yahoo shows ads with their listings. Are they making $10-$15 per month per person viewing those ads? Not so likely. $3-$5 per month ought to easily cover TiVo's listing fees.
And Yahoo doesn't need to maintain banks of dial-in modems for the people who are still not using Ethernet (as gawd intended) to connect their TiVo to get its listings. TiVo's service also includes the suggestions stuff - amassing and analyzing viewership to generate recording suggestions for your TiVo based on your preferences. I don't feel bad paying TiVo $14 a month - better than paying the cableco for their craptastic box every month that you have to give back.
Re:so far, all commenters seem to be confused...
on
The Trouble With TiVo
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· Score: 1
5. you can use Tivo with Satellite or Cable or off-air.
They're focusing on the new generation of TiVos - the Series3 and the TiVo HD *do not* work with satellite, as they don't have any video inputs like the Series2 units did. You can still get the Series2s, but with HDTV becoming the "it" thing, that's definitely where the future is going.
Just wait awhile, till it starts forgetting to record shows, or recording random crap you don't want. Or it records something, and won't let you watch it. Or just starts crashing. Or you get more than a few recordings on it, and the GUI becomes unusably slow. I've heard of so many failure modes - and the solution is always "well, we'll give you another box, and see what happens". Guess what - that never solves it, the new one starts doing the same thing before much longer. The GUI is by all accounts wretched, and pretty much universally loathed.
See this, or this, or this, or this, or this for some reviews of the steaming pile that SA calls a DVR. And in two months, let me know how that 8300HD is working for you.
Re:Of course we rent! You can't buy the unit...
on
The Trouble With TiVo
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· Score: 1
What cable or satellite company sells their HD DVR units? None. They all rent them out.
Guess you're not familiar with cable in Canada - you either buy a set top box/DVR (for full price - no subsidies for you) or you lease them for $40-$50/mo (a lot more than here).
And thank goodness for that! All the HD DVRs I've rented turned to shit in a few months. Shows stopped recording reliably. Units had to be swapped out. And by leaning on the sales staff, there's not up-front cost for the box--that's the joy of competition.
Yes, the cableco DVRs all suck. Have you ever used a TiVo? I have a Series3 HD unit, and I've not run into the problem where the unit slowly goes apeshit after a couple months. I've heard of this happening with the cableco DVRs many times. Poor bastards using them...
I like the DVRs from cable or satellite because it's seamless plug and play. No messing around trying to fit a Tivo to the set-top box. So, what does Tivo add to the HD equation?
The Series3 HD (and the newly-released TiVo HD) don't have the video input cables, and the IR blaster, and all the other bits that the Series2 units and earlier had - you plug it into the cable line (with CableCARDs, or one MCard now with the TiVo HD - supposedly coming to Series3s everywhere RSN I hope I hope) and watch TV. It's like the cable company's set top, but better - and it looks nicer to boot.
One improvement I'd request of the DVR makers--can't you shut the box off? That thing runs continually, unless you pull the plug. There is no excuse for spinning the disk all damn day--the box should have enough smarts to wake itself up to record a show, then shut back down.
Stopping and starting the disk unnecessarily generates more wear, and the stopping and starting takes more power, in many cases, than just leaving it spinning. Besides, with the TiVo, it's almost always recording a suggestion, or streaming something over my cable internet connection, or something - what's the point? It has no "power off" button, and there's no need. I'm good with that.
Yes, the integration ban did start as of July 1st - all new deployed boxes (cablecos may continue to reuse already-deployed boxes) *must* use CableCARD (or some form of separable access control - DCAS is supposedly coming, but it's nowhere near deployable yet). However, CableCARD most certainly supports bidirectional communications - it's CableLabs that won't license a device for bidirectional communication, at least not unless it runs OCAP. Read this to find out why OCAP is evil.
I have a Series3 HD, with a 500 GB eSATA drive plugged into it. It's loaded to the max with all kinds of HD content. Is this just my imagination? It says I have 98 hours of HD capacity... dunno, I suppose it's possible.
and allow multiroom
Okay, that's not out there yet... I've heard rumblings that the next software release may finally include MRV and TTG.
oh and when multistream cable cards are actually available.
Most cable companies have already moved to MCards - since the integration ban took effect at the start of the month, they're now required by the FCC to use CableCARD set-tops for new deploys, and they're not going to dick around with two SCards for those. Also, the two major cable infrastructure vendors, Motorola and Scientific-Atlanta, killed their SCard lines and are now only making MCards. If your cableco is holding out on you, if you buy a TiVo, call up TiVo - they'll bring down a little FCC hellfire on them to get 'em up to speed.
Until then this (like all other tivo products) are useless to digital cabletv subscribers.
Up until I moved, I'd had two CableCARDs in my Series3, watching and recording material from HDnet, HDnet Movies, DiscoveryHD, and the HD locals. It was anything but useless to me.
I don't need to worry about what they'd like to replace it with - there's an FCC mandate requiring the cable companies to supply firewire access.
Well, there's also an FCC mandate that they provide CableCARDs to customers for CableLabs certified devices - I'm discovering first hand how well that's working out. (The TiVo rep I got on the phone last week said she deals with calls about cablecos holding out on providing customers with CableCARDs about 4-5 times *a day*.) Cable MSOs have internal policies which often are totally counter to FCC regs, and they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern ways.
And trust me, you'll need that automatic replacement with the cableco boxes, when they fail on you every month or two, for no apparent reason. Then just to spite you, you lose all your recorded shows when you have to get that new box. Kinda obviates the need for a DVR, when your recordings are probably going to go away on a regular basis.
Decrypting channels is the entire purpose of CableCARD (that and managing channel mappings). If CableCARD 1.0 (aka SCard) were so useless, there wouldn't be much point in making hardware to support it...
CableCARDs themselves have always supported bidirectional communication - it's just that CableLabs won't license any device for bidirectional communication that doesn't implement OCAP. Read this to learn why OCAP is evil.
CableCARDs have always been capable of bidirectional communication. The problem is that CableLabs won't allow anything that doesn't implement OCAP to do bidirectional communication. See this for more information about the pure, unadulterated evil that is OCAP - then please call your representative, and/or the FCC, and tell them why you think OCAP is bad, and CableLabs and the cable industry at large should be forced (yes, forced) to open up bidirectional comm via DOCSIS (what they're using now anyway) for all consumer electronics vendors, not just those who will suck the big OCAP dick.
I've seen DHG-HDD250s for under US$300 on eBay; you should be able to get one for that kind of price on there without too much trouble. They're not $100, no, but that's about as cheap as you're going to get an all in one box that can record HD for (that you own - I exclude cableco HD DVRs because they pretty universally suck). The Sony even supports CableCARD - though only SCards, as it's a single tuner rig.
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CableCARD doesn't provide any interface for the device it's installed in to get guide data - that's a totally separate function. You might be able to get channel information via PSIP data streams, but the normal guide data channels are via some proprietary means (digital cable boxes, TiVo's guide data downloads, etc.).
That's the same code that's on my luggage!
If you mean so-called "impulse PPV," i.e., order with your remote, then yes; this requires two-way communication, and CableLabs will currently *only* license OCAP devices for two-way CableCARD functionality. If you don't like that, call the FCC, call your congressman, do something - try to get the FCC to step in and force CableLabs to open up two-way CableCARD licensing.
CableCARD is two-way - even the S-Cards had support for two-way communication. The limiting factor is not the cards, but the licensing - CableLabs requires that anyone who wants to implement bidirectional CableCARD devices implement OCAP. OCAP is, unfortunately, an evil, evil system, preventing any company making a box (like, say, TiVo) from running their own software directly on their own hardware - they'd have to get it CableLabs licensed, get it distributed to all the major cable MSOs, and get them to make it available at a reasonable (additional monthly) cost to the people using their boxes. Read this for more about what's wrong with OCAP.
And yes, PCI cards (referred to as OCUR, or OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver) cards, are available that can accept a CableCARD - unfortunately (a) they are only available as part of a specially licensed OEM system, and (b) so far, they don't seem to actually *work*. Awesome.
If people who don't have sex are smarter, how are we going to keep the earth populated with people to be smarter than ?
I don't think we are. Except for a few lucky outliers whose genes happen to be "just right", the majority are going to be "average". But wasn't it proven that even if a child has two parents of above average intelligence, that doesn't mean that they're going to be of above average intelligence themselves? So the meme that smart people should breed, if I'm remembering correctly, would be pointless?
No, actually there was a POSIX subsystem prior to the Interix acquisition. It wasn't very good, and was rarely used, but it was there since NT 3.1. The given reason (government contracts requiring POSIX compliance) makes sense, given the quality of it. Interix offers the POSIX API layer, but also a good breadth of UNIX tools - the old POSIX layer was just an API shim on top of the NT internals allowing code written to the POSIX APIs to run on NT.
No, the cableco DVRs are the unreliable jalopies - no features, unreliable, leaving you stranded when you really want to be somewhere else. TiVo is more expensive, but it's *reliable* - the cableco DVRs are anything but, and the cable companies know it. They don't care.
Get an eSATA drive - it's well documented how to marry the drive to a Series3 TiVo, and it sounds like the same procedure works on the new TiVo HD as well. I got an eSATA 500 GB drive for mine, and it's wonderful.
I'm sure TiVo would love it (although Amazon's Unbox division wouldn't). But CableLabs has been dragging its feet on it (so there's no standard approved yet) and it will be a long time after the standard is complete before you see cable companies actually making cards available. And even then it may not be possible for TiVo to use them, given CableLabs' licensing terms.
Actually, CableCARD already supports two way communication - but CableLabs won't certify anything for it unless it implements OCAP. OCAP is pure evil, totally gutting the purpose of CableCARD, making any third party box just another host for their crappy software - the box vendor can't run their own software directly on their own box. This explains better than I can about the evil, nasty, insidious twisting of the DVB standard that is OCAP - and why no consumer-electronics vendor worth a crap wants anything to do with it.
Except anything in HD (or SD digital cable) where 5C encryption's applied - unfortunately until ATI, or Microsoft, or whoever fixes that problem, your Windows Media Center DVR box can't use a CableCARD, so those programs are off the menu.
Yes, Yahoo shows ads with their listings. Are they making $10-$15 per month per person viewing those ads? Not so likely. $3-$5 per month ought to easily cover TiVo's listing fees.
And Yahoo doesn't need to maintain banks of dial-in modems for the people who are still not using Ethernet (as gawd intended) to connect their TiVo to get its listings. TiVo's service also includes the suggestions stuff - amassing and analyzing viewership to generate recording suggestions for your TiVo based on your preferences. I don't feel bad paying TiVo $14 a month - better than paying the cableco for their craptastic box every month that you have to give back.
5. you can use Tivo with Satellite or Cable or off-air.
They're focusing on the new generation of TiVos - the Series3 and the TiVo HD *do not* work with satellite, as they don't have any video inputs like the Series2 units did. You can still get the Series2s, but with HDTV becoming the "it" thing, that's definitely where the future is going.
Just wait awhile, till it starts forgetting to record shows, or recording random crap you don't want. Or it records something, and won't let you watch it. Or just starts crashing. Or you get more than a few recordings on it, and the GUI becomes unusably slow. I've heard of so many failure modes - and the solution is always "well, we'll give you another box, and see what happens". Guess what - that never solves it, the new one starts doing the same thing before much longer. The GUI is by all accounts wretched, and pretty much universally loathed.
See this, or this, or this, or this, or this for some reviews of the steaming pile that SA calls a DVR. And in two months, let me know how that 8300HD is working for you.
What cable or satellite company sells their HD DVR units? None. They all rent them out.
Guess you're not familiar with cable in Canada - you either buy a set top box/DVR (for full price - no subsidies for you) or you lease them for $40-$50/mo (a lot more than here).
And thank goodness for that! All the HD DVRs I've rented turned to shit in a few months. Shows stopped recording reliably. Units had to be swapped out. And by leaning on the sales staff, there's not up-front cost for the box--that's the joy of competition.
Yes, the cableco DVRs all suck. Have you ever used a TiVo? I have a Series3 HD unit, and I've not run into the problem where the unit slowly goes apeshit after a couple months. I've heard of this happening with the cableco DVRs many times. Poor bastards using them...
I like the DVRs from cable or satellite because it's seamless plug and play. No messing around trying to fit a Tivo to the set-top box. So, what does Tivo add to the HD equation?
The Series3 HD (and the newly-released TiVo HD) don't have the video input cables, and the IR blaster, and all the other bits that the Series2 units and earlier had - you plug it into the cable line (with CableCARDs, or one MCard now with the TiVo HD - supposedly coming to Series3s everywhere RSN I hope I hope) and watch TV. It's like the cable company's set top, but better - and it looks nicer to boot.
One improvement I'd request of the DVR makers--can't you shut the box off? That thing runs continually, unless you pull the plug. There is no excuse for spinning the disk all damn day--the box should have enough smarts to wake itself up to record a show, then shut back down.
Stopping and starting the disk unnecessarily generates more wear, and the stopping and starting takes more power, in many cases, than just leaving it spinning. Besides, with the TiVo, it's almost always recording a suggestion, or streaming something over my cable internet connection, or something - what's the point? It has no "power off" button, and there's no need. I'm good with that.
Lovely - that plus "HD lite" makes me less sad that the Series3 only works with cable.
Yes, the integration ban did start as of July 1st - all new deployed boxes (cablecos may continue to reuse already-deployed boxes) *must* use CableCARD (or some form of separable access control - DCAS is supposedly coming, but it's nowhere near deployable yet). However, CableCARD most certainly supports bidirectional communications - it's CableLabs that won't license a device for bidirectional communication, at least not unless it runs OCAP. Read this to find out why OCAP is evil.
And let me guess, you're one of the poor bastards with an HR20? It's a shame DirecTV thought they could somehow do better than TiVo...
Wake me when they actually enable the esata port
I have a Series3 HD, with a 500 GB eSATA drive plugged into it. It's loaded to the max with all kinds of HD content. Is this just my imagination? It says I have 98 hours of HD capacity... dunno, I suppose it's possible.
and allow multiroom
Okay, that's not out there yet... I've heard rumblings that the next software release may finally include MRV and TTG.
oh and when multistream cable cards are actually available.
Most cable companies have already moved to MCards - since the integration ban took effect at the start of the month, they're now required by the FCC to use CableCARD set-tops for new deploys, and they're not going to dick around with two SCards for those. Also, the two major cable infrastructure vendors, Motorola and Scientific-Atlanta, killed their SCard lines and are now only making MCards. If your cableco is holding out on you, if you buy a TiVo, call up TiVo - they'll bring down a little FCC hellfire on them to get 'em up to speed.
Until then this (like all other tivo products) are useless to digital cabletv subscribers.
Up until I moved, I'd had two CableCARDs in my Series3, watching and recording material from HDnet, HDnet Movies, DiscoveryHD, and the HD locals. It was anything but useless to me.
A myth, is it? My parents have DirecTV HD, and if a decent rain gets going, the MPEG signal starts having visible cutout. If only it were a myth...
I don't need to worry about what they'd like to replace it with - there's an FCC mandate requiring the cable companies to supply firewire access.
Well, there's also an FCC mandate that they provide CableCARDs to customers for CableLabs certified devices - I'm discovering first hand how well that's working out. (The TiVo rep I got on the phone last week said she deals with calls about cablecos holding out on providing customers with CableCARDs about 4-5 times *a day*.) Cable MSOs have internal policies which often are totally counter to FCC regs, and they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern ways.
And trust me, you'll need that automatic replacement with the cableco boxes, when they fail on you every month or two, for no apparent reason. Then just to spite you, you lose all your recorded shows when you have to get that new box. Kinda obviates the need for a DVR, when your recordings are probably going to go away on a regular basis.
Decrypting channels is the entire purpose of CableCARD (that and managing channel mappings). If CableCARD 1.0 (aka SCard) were so useless, there wouldn't be much point in making hardware to support it...
CableCARDs themselves have always supported bidirectional communication - it's just that CableLabs won't license any device for bidirectional communication that doesn't implement OCAP. Read this to learn why OCAP is evil.
CableCARDs have always been capable of bidirectional communication. The problem is that CableLabs won't allow anything that doesn't implement OCAP to do bidirectional communication. See this for more information about the pure, unadulterated evil that is OCAP - then please call your representative, and/or the FCC, and tell them why you think OCAP is bad, and CableLabs and the cable industry at large should be forced (yes, forced) to open up bidirectional comm via DOCSIS (what they're using now anyway) for all consumer electronics vendors, not just those who will suck the big OCAP dick.
I've seen DHG-HDD250s for under US$300 on eBay; you should be able to get one for that kind of price on there without too much trouble. They're not $100, no, but that's about as cheap as you're going to get an all in one box that can record HD for (that you own - I exclude cableco HD DVRs because they pretty universally suck). The Sony even supports CableCARD - though only SCards, as it's a single tuner rig.