If you like Slackware, and want a distro for PowerPC systems, try Debian. I have it running nicely on a FireWire iBook right now (I'm typing this on it, in Mozilla 0.9.5, running 2.4.12 on a sid install).
Also, if you can understand what's CAUSING the headache, you can find ways to avoid suffering from them in the first place - as, with computer software, if you can understand how the exploits work, you can have some forearming of how to deal with them next time, and maybe even an idea how to stop them dead in their tracks BEFORE they jump up and bite you.
Been tried. Doesn't work. Microsoft and other companies, at best, will tell you they're "working on it", and then go back to whatever they were doing before. Fact is, unless you can make it an IMMEDIATE concern, it will get shrugged off and ignored. Just telling them they have a problem just isn't enough to make them care.
People have tried. L0pht, for example, tried reporting vulnerabilities to Microsoft, who told them in one instance that the vulnerability they were reporting was "only theoretical". What's the use in wasting your time reporting issues to a company that really doesn't want to hear about it? That's the main problem with the whole concept of reporting vulnerabilities in software - if the company won't listen, you have to make the customer base aware of it, and there's no faster way to do that than exploiting it.
I somehow doubt that, unless they're going to do their own OS-independent binary format just for their plugins, there's going to be Winamp plugins being used for Winamp on Linux - there has to be a lot of API wrapping done to make it work (plus an LE/PE loader). They'd either have to spend a lot of time on it on their own, or they'd have to snag code from Wine to do it - and I don't know enough about Wine's license terms to know if they allow for closed-source packages to use Wine code.
Yes, and it then only works on Linux/x86. Oh, hooray. Let me notify the press.
I have found Linux on PPC to be rather nice - the problem with it is the closed-source Linux stuff is (generally) only available for Linux on Intel systems. Thee IA32 architecture kinda sucks overall - not that I don't have Intel-based systems running Linux, but architectures like PowerPC do have their advantages.
And therein lies one of the advantages of open source on a multiplatform OS - software can be rebuilt (or tweaked to add necessary code if it uses arch-specific stuff), and you don't have to beg a corporate entity (who probably doesn't give a damn) to release binaries for the arrchitecture you're using.
If you don't like the default interface, there are interface-replacement plugins that give a KJofol-esque level of skinning. And you say you'r having stability problems with XMMS on Mandrake? It's pretty stable on Debian/PPC on the iBook I'm using right now - tell Mandrake to update their stuff.
Too many clueless people using it as a term to describe the Internet, as they desperately try to sound clueful (failing miserably, of course). As a CS major, as well as a sysadmin, cluebies trying to show people how smart they are (and only proving how little they know about computers and the Internet) just grate on my nerves terribly.
I understand that production equipment and services can be obtained pretty cheaply there, as opposed to acquiring those services here in the States (pretty expensive here - is anyone really surprised?)... it's all about the Benjamins, as the saying goes. They're probably saving a lot of money down under, so I can't blame them for doing so (can't imagine any other good reason).
"Cyberspace" - kill me. I hate that word. It's so... so... stupid. I can't think of a word to sufficiently describe my distaste for that word. I don't even remember who came up with that word, but please, please, let them be appropriately beaten for it...
Like it makes a difference. Microsoft ships the _same_ binaries, whether it's the Home edition, Professional edition, or Server edition - the only difference is a few registry entries and some extra utilities. IMHO that's just a ridiculous excuse - if its performance is poor, it's poor. Not that pipes (named or unnamed) are any sort of general performance indication, but that doesn't change the fact that if they're using the same binaries, they're using the same binaries. The label on the box doesn't matter.
Because Samuel hasn't gotten that handled yet. There's nothing that strictly prevents it, however. It's doable, just requires a bit more work (probably a slightly more complete OpenFirmware implementation will be required, but ask Samuel to be sure).
how does the speed compare to Classic under OS X?
Pretty similar. They both run Classic MacOS in a similar fashion - using the PowerPC's designed-in virtualization capabilities to run a full OS in a process context. (Something that takes a lot of dirty trickery on e.g. IA32)
can you drag+drop between desktops like w/ Virtual PC?
Well, Mac-on-Linux doesn't have any QuickDraw acceleration, so I don't think that this would actually work. I have run VPCv3 on MacOS running inside Mac-on-Linux (on a G3 blue/white tower running Debian and BenH's 2.4 kernel), so it is doable, but keep in mind that Mac-on-Linux only runs on a PPC anyway. Plus, the lack of QuickDraw acceleration isn't going to help. So, I don't think this is a solution, no.
I know you're trying to be funny, but Mac-on-Linux just runs MacOS directly on top of Linux, no emulating Mac toolbox calls or anything else of the sort - so that wouldn't be an issue anyway.:)
You talk like that's a simple thing. It isn't hardly. And you don't sound like you understand what Wine is either - Wine incorporates an (ever-improving) implementation of the Win32 API/ABI and a Win32 LE/PE binary loader for running Windows apps on a non-Windows system.
Wine's progress has been hindered more than anything by undocumented API calls - and there are a lot of them. You really think starting from scratch and writing a work-alike OS is really going to be any easier? I doubt it. You still have to duplicate either the whole Win32 API/ABI, or a large enough subset of it to run the apps you want (many of which, especially if they're Microsoft's, make liberal use of those undocumented entry points - plus it's already a moving target). You'd have to either write your own driver layer and drivers, or write a driver compatibility layer to use Windows native drivers on your new Win-clone OS. And there's other work that'd have to be done too - it'd be a long, arduous, time-consuming, nerve-shattering experience.
If you really want to know the amount of work involved in this sort of project, the Wine crew would know - or the PetrOS project's author, Peter Tattam (of Trumpet Software fame), if you want another look.
Just don't go underestimating the scale of what you're proposing - it's a BIG job. Especially when a company like Microsoft has been writing the code you're trying to clone, playing its usual shell games at low levels for some years... it'd be a serious mess.
I happily run 2.4.x kernels on my Debian installs (both on x86 and PPC systems). If you want cutting edge, use Sid. (aka unstable - but IMO it's more stable than most other shipping distributions)
No, seriously. Try it. It doesn't try to say "look at me! I'm not like UNIX at all! I want to be like Windows!" - it's honest about its roots. It's a bit harder to get started with, I admit, but once you learn it, you won't want to use any RedHat-derived distro again.
Go get the floppy images and net-install, or download an ISO and do a base install, then update yourself to Woody (or Sid, if you're daring - I run Woody on servers, Sid on workstations). Then use 'tasksel' to install tasks of your choice. GNOME and KDE are available if you want them.
By the way, where can I get an ACTUAL Mandrake 8.1 ISO? I don't want it - but we have a student aide who wants to install it, and the 8.0 release is hanging up after loading the driver module for his Adaptec SCSI card. (You'll note I've never had a problem like THAT with Debian!)
I don't know if there is a way with anything RedHat-derived. I've laways heard it advised with anything RedHat based to more or less start from scratch. Bleh, yucky nasty.
Of course, I'm a Debian user who's used to 'apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade' for upgrading to the newest distro.:)
MIPS is still used by SGI - they've not gone Intel for most of their workstation product line. The RS6000 systems are driven by IBM's POWER-series processors, which are closely related to the PowerPC processor line. And of course, IA64 as an architecture is totally unproven, and may yet be a major failure. We'll see. And of course, AMD's Sledgehammer hasn't made its appearance yet - we'll have to see how big a dent (pun intended) it makes in the market for higher-end CPU designs.
Re:How does this affect ALPHA?
on
HP Buys Compaq
·
· Score: 1
Well, seeing as Compaq was, last I'd heard, basically burying the Alpha architecture because buddy-buddy Intel wants to push their new IA64 architecture. And considering HP was a codeveloper on the IA64 design, I'm sure they will be interested in pimping it as well. I think we'd all better bid our fond farewells to the Alpha - I doubt anything can save it now.
Uh. You mean "Messiah"? I OWN a copy of Messiah - it doesn't support OpenGL at ALL. It uses either Direct3D or Glide (the API of choice for the now-defunct 3Dfx). It never did and does not use OpenGL. (Not that its use of D3D made it more stable - I've found the Glide version to both render better and be more stable.)
Please, try to sound like you actually know what you're talking about - your post above does not.
Well, he probably was of the opinion that "I've got nothing to hide, I've done nothing wrong, I'm just trying to do something helpful here." And who can blame him? He wasn't doing anything wrong, and he was trying to be helpful. I really don't think he can be faulted in what he did - he was trying to do the right thing. (If only more people did that...)
Slashdot Mirror
If you like Slackware, and want a distro for PowerPC systems, try Debian. I have it running nicely on a FireWire iBook right now (I'm typing this on it, in Mozilla 0.9.5, running 2.4.12 on a sid install).
Also, if you can understand what's CAUSING the headache, you can find ways to avoid suffering from them in the first place - as, with computer software, if you can understand how the exploits work, you can have some forearming of how to deal with them next time, and maybe even an idea how to stop them dead in their tracks BEFORE they jump up and bite you.
Been tried. Doesn't work. Microsoft and other companies, at best, will tell you they're "working on it", and then go back to whatever they were doing before. Fact is, unless you can make it an IMMEDIATE concern, it will get shrugged off and ignored. Just telling them they have a problem just isn't enough to make them care.
People have tried. L0pht, for example, tried reporting vulnerabilities to Microsoft, who told them in one instance that the vulnerability they were reporting was "only theoretical". What's the use in wasting your time reporting issues to a company that really doesn't want to hear about it? That's the main problem with the whole concept of reporting vulnerabilities in software - if the company won't listen, you have to make the customer base aware of it, and there's no faster way to do that than exploiting it.
I somehow doubt that, unless they're going to do their own OS-independent binary format just for their plugins, there's going to be Winamp plugins being used for Winamp on Linux - there has to be a lot of API wrapping done to make it work (plus an LE/PE loader). They'd either have to spend a lot of time on it on their own, or they'd have to snag code from Wine to do it - and I don't know enough about Wine's license terms to know if they allow for closed-source packages to use Wine code.
Yes, and it then only works on Linux/x86. Oh, hooray. Let me notify the press.
I have found Linux on PPC to be rather nice - the problem with it is the closed-source Linux stuff is (generally) only available for Linux on Intel systems. Thee IA32 architecture kinda sucks overall - not that I don't have Intel-based systems running Linux, but architectures like PowerPC do have their advantages.
And therein lies one of the advantages of open source on a multiplatform OS - software can be rebuilt (or tweaked to add necessary code if it uses arch-specific stuff), and you don't have to beg a corporate entity (who probably doesn't give a damn) to release binaries for the arrchitecture you're using.
If you don't like the default interface, there are interface-replacement plugins that give a KJofol-esque level of skinning. And you say you'r having stability problems with XMMS on Mandrake? It's pretty stable on Debian/PPC on the iBook I'm using right now - tell Mandrake to update their stuff.
Too many clueless people using it as a term to describe the Internet, as they desperately try to sound clueful (failing miserably, of course). As a CS major, as well as a sysadmin, cluebies trying to show people how smart they are (and only proving how little they know about computers and the Internet) just grate on my nerves terribly.
At least it appears a few people agree with me.
I understand that production equipment and services can be obtained pretty cheaply there, as opposed to acquiring those services here in the States (pretty expensive here - is anyone really surprised?)... it's all about the Benjamins, as the saying goes. They're probably saving a lot of money down under, so I can't blame them for doing so (can't imagine any other good reason).
"Cyberspace" - kill me. I hate that word. It's so... so... stupid. I can't think of a word to sufficiently describe my distaste for that word. I don't even remember who came up with that word, but please, please, let them be appropriately beaten for it...
Like it makes a difference. Microsoft ships the _same_ binaries, whether it's the Home edition, Professional edition, or Server edition - the only difference is a few registry entries and some extra utilities. IMHO that's just a ridiculous excuse - if its performance is poor, it's poor. Not that pipes (named or unnamed) are any sort of general performance indication, but that doesn't change the fact that if they're using the same binaries, they're using the same binaries. The label on the box doesn't matter.
why won't it run OS X?
Because Samuel hasn't gotten that handled yet. There's nothing that strictly prevents it, however. It's doable, just requires a bit more work (probably a slightly more complete OpenFirmware implementation will be required, but ask Samuel to be sure).
how does the speed compare to Classic under OS X?
Pretty similar. They both run Classic MacOS in a similar fashion - using the PowerPC's designed-in virtualization capabilities to run a full OS in a process context. (Something that takes a lot of dirty trickery on e.g. IA32)
can you drag+drop between desktops like w/ Virtual PC?
No.
Considering Mac-on-Linux doesn't run on OS X (it runs on Linux), I doubt you're going to be running it on OS X anytime soon.
Well, Mac-on-Linux doesn't have any QuickDraw acceleration, so I don't think that this would actually work. I have run VPCv3 on MacOS running inside Mac-on-Linux (on a G3 blue/white tower running Debian and BenH's 2.4 kernel), so it is doable, but keep in mind that Mac-on-Linux only runs on a PPC anyway. Plus, the lack of QuickDraw acceleration isn't going to help. So, I don't think this is a solution, no.
Nice idea tho - if a bit Rube-Goldbergian...
I know you're trying to be funny, but Mac-on-Linux just runs MacOS directly on top of Linux, no emulating Mac toolbox calls or anything else of the sort - so that wouldn't be an issue anyway. :)
You talk like that's a simple thing. It isn't hardly. And you don't sound like you understand what Wine is either - Wine incorporates an (ever-improving) implementation of the Win32 API/ABI and a Win32 LE/PE binary loader for running Windows apps on a non-Windows system.
Wine's progress has been hindered more than anything by undocumented API calls - and there are a lot of them. You really think starting from scratch and writing a work-alike OS is really going to be any easier? I doubt it. You still have to duplicate either the whole Win32 API/ABI, or a large enough subset of it to run the apps you want (many of which, especially if they're Microsoft's, make liberal use of those undocumented entry points - plus it's already a moving target). You'd have to either write your own driver layer and drivers, or write a driver compatibility layer to use Windows native drivers on your new Win-clone OS. And there's other work that'd have to be done too - it'd be a long, arduous, time-consuming, nerve-shattering experience.
If you really want to know the amount of work involved in this sort of project, the Wine crew would know - or the PetrOS project's author, Peter Tattam (of Trumpet Software fame), if you want another look.
Just don't go underestimating the scale of what you're proposing - it's a BIG job. Especially when a company like Microsoft has been writing the code you're trying to clone, playing its usual shell games at low levels for some years... it'd be a serious mess.
I happily run 2.4.x kernels on my Debian installs (both on x86 and PPC systems). If you want cutting edge, use Sid. (aka unstable - but IMO it's more stable than most other shipping distributions)
RUN DEBIAN.
No, seriously. Try it. It doesn't try to say "look at me! I'm not like UNIX at all! I want to be like Windows!" - it's honest about its roots. It's a bit harder to get started with, I admit, but once you learn it, you won't want to use any RedHat-derived distro again.
Go get the floppy images and net-install, or download an ISO and do a base install, then update yourself to Woody (or Sid, if you're daring - I run Woody on servers, Sid on workstations). Then use 'tasksel' to install tasks of your choice. GNOME and KDE are available if you want them.
By the way, where can I get an ACTUAL Mandrake 8.1 ISO? I don't want it - but we have a student aide who wants to install it, and the 8.0 release is hanging up after loading the driver module for his Adaptec SCSI card. (You'll note I've never had a problem like THAT with Debian!)
I don't know if there is a way with anything RedHat-derived. I've laways heard it advised with anything RedHat based to more or less start from scratch. Bleh, yucky nasty.
:)
Of course, I'm a Debian user who's used to 'apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade' for upgrading to the newest distro.
MIPS is still used by SGI - they've not gone Intel for most of their workstation product line. The RS6000 systems are driven by IBM's POWER-series processors, which are closely related to the PowerPC processor line. And of course, IA64 as an architecture is totally unproven, and may yet be a major failure. We'll see. And of course, AMD's Sledgehammer hasn't made its appearance yet - we'll have to see how big a dent (pun intended) it makes in the market for higher-end CPU designs.
Well, seeing as Compaq was, last I'd heard, basically burying the Alpha architecture because buddy-buddy Intel wants to push their new IA64 architecture. And considering HP was a codeveloper on the IA64 design, I'm sure they will be interested in pimping it as well. I think we'd all better bid our fond farewells to the Alpha - I doubt anything can save it now.
Uh. You mean "Messiah"? I OWN a copy of Messiah - it doesn't support OpenGL at ALL. It uses either Direct3D or Glide (the API of choice for the now-defunct 3Dfx). It never did and does not use OpenGL. (Not that its use of D3D made it more stable - I've found the Glide version to both render better and be more stable.)
Please, try to sound like you actually know what you're talking about - your post above does not.
Well, he probably was of the opinion that "I've got nothing to hide, I've done nothing wrong, I'm just trying to do something helpful here." And who can blame him? He wasn't doing anything wrong, and he was trying to be helpful. I really don't think he can be faulted in what he did - he was trying to do the right thing. (If only more people did that...)
Actually, that's the Command key. The Option key is the one marked "Option", or "Alt".
Yes, at all of 2.4 fps. Maybe the Radeon2 8500 could do it faster?