Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Du Jour - Talks, Upgrades, Salaries
Jeff writes: "CNN is reporting 'In a dramatic move, the new judge in the Microsoft case Friday ordered the government and the software maker into five weeks of intensive settlement talks, until Nov. 2.'" Other MS submissions coming in today: USAToday discovers the new upgrade scheme, designed to milk every last cent out of those who've locked themselves into Windows; tech-report.com goes a bit more in depth on the same subject; ZDNet hoists the black flag; MS discusses its plans to control how you compute (by the way, the license agreement for Windows Media Player now allows Microsoft to disable any software on your computer - you do read those license agreements, don't you?); Gates got $666,000 last year but won't have to apply for welfare just yet.
$666,000.
Isn't that a little ironic?
I like fire ants. They are very spicy!
Bill Gates earned $666,000 last year?
Devil: Ok, Bill, you did a great job this year. We are going to give you a raise to the standard 'Evil' salary of $666K.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
666k is fair enough... but he load billions on the price of company stock.... so its not been a good year for him
Cruise TT
Regular people are starting to see that this whole monolpoly thing really isn't a good idea. Duh, now that they have you locked down they are gonna give you the whole broomstick, no reach around, no kiss. Oh well people let it happen to themselves.
I just saw a brief report on TV, stating that Bill is still on top of the list. With s.t. like 46B-DM (roughly half of it in US$), though he lost 9Bs during the markets recession.
So 666K seems reasonable
0 001 11 1
660
Approximate number of the Beast
666.0000
Number of the High Precision Beast
/666
Beast Common Denominator
(-666) ^ (1/2)
Imaginary number of the Beast
6.66 e3
Floating point Beast
1010011010
Binary of the Beast
1/666
Reciprocal of the Beast.
Best Slashdot Co
(*shakes from fear realizing that probably a large number of people out there are eating this garbage up as if it were as natural as poop.*)
Go Lakers!
I work at Microsoft and I know: Thats just the money for Bill's beer and TV dinner habits. He also sold 50 million shares of Microsoft stock, reportedly to pay for Melinda Gates sickly eBay entwined Beanie Baby fixation.
"We have no tangible plans for a Mac version,"
Thank god. You assholes can do what ever you want to you messed up little OS, but if anything like this reader gets released for Mac OS I will be mighty pissed.
I think it's about time that someone puts M$ in their place, 'cause this is just one more step to absolute control.
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
Don't like the licensing terms? Don't like the product. Don't f!@#ing buy it! You whiners make it sound like Msft is forcing you to buy and eat a shit sandwich.
Although you may have trouble convincing your friends and family not to buy it.
Here's our opportunity....guys...if Linux is ever to be a viable operating system (at least to Corporate America) - it needs to take advantage of this....
CFO's do listen with their wallets...make Linux EASY to use, even at the expense of some of the more configurable options...and secure, and you'll see it become a viable file/web server in the market...I laugh when I hear people griping about MS service packs and a kernel has to be recompiled every week.
Follow the cue of Linux embedded devices...easy for users and admins.
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
Heck no.
Psarianos kicks all of your asses anyway.
Anybody want to post contact info for those of us who whould like to help H4H migrate? (You know, it could count for my community service hours...)
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
668
Neighbor of the Beast
I've seen that one as a sig here.
I like fire ants. They are very spicy!
My favorite part was the Gateway
"Get Windows XP" banner on the
ZDNet article.
"the license agreement for Windows Media Player now allows Microsoft to disable any software on your computer "
Make sure you're not running Windows Media Player on the same computer that handles granny's life support.
Though if that computer is running windows, she's in trouble anyway.
-J5K
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
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Cruise TT
Over six hundred million shares??!(after multiple splits IIRC) Crikey, no wonder they have to resort to fancy accounting tricks to prove they make profits.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Meanwhile the WinXP is already released in late Aug (from the announcement, at least) and go into the market by the end of October. Is it to late to settle at Nov 2? By the time, M$ has gotten a fresh new cash from the sales. Correct me if I'm wrong. I hope DoJ is aware of this...
Meanwhile, there is another article here.
--
Error 500: Internal sig error
I am almost finished with my plan to escape evil Bill's clutches forever. I recently bought an Apple ibook (No Microsoft tax!), and will be installing Mandrake 8.0 PPC on it this weekend to get away from IE. Last night I downloaded Mandrake 8.1 to replace Windows on my last surviving Windows box (I kept it for EverQuest in hopes that they would eventually abandon MS- oh well.). Tonight I will be burning the ISOs that will free me from the grip of evil! Linux is my escape, into the free world from which I will run my anti-SSSCA task force and wait for the day someone makes a really good knockoff of the natural keyboards I so enjoy!
http://www.habitat.org/getinv/
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Did anybody else get this? This is like that shopaholic girlfriend/significant other/wife that explains how she saved money by spending hundreds of dollars at a sale. Sheesh!
I've been trying to "Windows Update" a couple of new computers all day, and it seems the Microsoft home page isn't responding. Period.
Does that mean that Redmond is a smoking pile of debris too? God forbid. No, really.
Since all the penguins are native to the Southern Hemisphere, I can only imagine that those particular birds are following you, perhaps listening in on your phone calls and reading your mail. I'd suggest a fresh foil wrap for your head.
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
The ZDNet article makes a reference to 'Uncle Billy'. Remindes me of Uncle Sam....
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
now is an "optimal time" to settle the case out of court and that they could strike a deal "if everybody is reasonable and acting in good faith."
Good faith? Microsoft? US Government? I wonder what colour the Blue Screen of Death is in her world?
--
E_NOSIG
This may be off-topic, but....
I keep seeing references to MS license agreements, but I can't figure out how to see them online. Do I have to buy the product before I can see the licenses???
One might think that an online version would be an easy way to let people read them before slitting the shrinkwrap.
Oh, but then they might not buy it?? I think I begin to see... .
-John Van Voorhis
Rant warning...
People, this is no longer news. This just proves that everybody trusts Big Brother because Big Brother is always Watching Us and Caring For Us. To prove my point: How many people use the phrase Big Brother who have never read 1984 by George Orwell?
How many people know that George Orwell was just his pen name?
Democracy sounds like a good idea: the will of the majority has to be the right thing. Even though the majority is wrong it's still right.
Microsoft is right. Open Source is unamerican. The American Way is to make as much money as possible by screwing as many people as possible. Ignorance is now a virtue.
C'mon America! Microsoft is tarnishing your reputation! Stand up, show us that you care about something other than yourselves.
Heck, I should talk, I come from South Africa. At least we only pretend to be leaders in stupidity.
But his real compensation is in mortal souls and the eternal suffering of mankind, not salary. People put too much emphasis on paychecks, but often things like job satisfaction, such as that derived from torturing and humiliating the offspring of Yahweh, and perks, such as being legion and hanging with Elizabeth Hurley, are more important than the money.
There are also other ways to make money on the side. I mean, the South Park guest appearances alone... The Exxon and Republican endorsement deals... Plus, $666K is better than 35 pieces of silver. (adjusted for inflation)
I swear, as soon as my employer stops paying for my software I'm going to take a stand. Golldurnit.
It's unbelievable to think that somebody would try to sell something by arguing it's similar to Pandora's box
Is it possible that the microsofties are so far removed from reality that good and evil have swapped meanings for them?
Plus, you could acquire this nifty URL, in order to build your own ?user base?.
well, God bless, & good luck to all of US anyway. &, just in case you haven't heard, fud IS dead.
Where do you people come up with this tripe?
1) Intensive settlement talks:
A) The government doesn't want to lose face by ripping into the economy via tearing MSFT apart. "Let's find some way to coexist peacefully," is what they are saying. This is all going to blow over when Microsoft pays a couple billion in fines and loses its ability to make vendor-exclusive deals.
2) Upgrade Scheme
A) Any company that has the money to upgrade every time Microsoft comes out with a new OS is one I'd like to be an executive of. There are many many companies who are still running Windows 3.11 and doing fine. The upgrade treadmill isn't one that you need to be on all the time. Stop complaining every time your company feels the urge to splurge on the latest and greatest.
3) ZD commentary on XP system upgrading
A) Hasn't this horse been beaten to death? Readers of ZDnet should be fully aware of the XP system change restrictions. Hell, the talkback articles all bitch about it all day long. This is not news to anyone.
4) Control computing...
A) Uh, this article was about the Microsoft e-Reader and its increased usage and benefits. Can someone explain how "MS discusses its plans to control how you computer" was interpreted into this?
5) $666,000
A) Heh heh heh. Now that's funny.
6) Welfare?
A) I hope Michael isn't implying that anyone not in the top 15 richest people are somehow in need of welfare.
Jeez...
When the DoJ get released from their five weeks of captivity with the MS brain washing crew they'll all have C# tattoos! We can't let this happen!
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
assface. Anyway....WE aren't buying it, and I'm sure that many business don't want to, but they HAVE TO, now that not only are they locked into it but many of their customers will be also, and those propietary (?) formats that MS spews forth will CONTINUE to be a necessary evil. Think it through fuckwad.
When the action against Microsoft first started, my thought was that it was typical -- the government was taking action after the time when it was most needed.
It was my opinion then, and is still my opinion, that the market would take care of Microsoft, just like it had with IBM (the previous 800-lb gorilla of the computing world). The government could try to stop Microsoft, but the market would ultimately do a better job.
Now we see statements like:
Q.E.D.
In time (no, I have no idea how long), Microsoft will be just a player in a new computing world. I don't know what the new world will be, or who its biggest player will be. If I did, I'd be buying stock like crazy.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
That depends upon if your running a browser with multiple language support. Its really easy to add if your computer is setup for such language, only problem is not all computers can view it.
Yeah, yeah, Apple is as much a business and corporate entity as Microsoft, and as such cannot be trusted any more than Microsoft...
:)
Yet if you evaluate the Mac platform, here's what it offers:
Good (not great) compatibility with the Windows universe, without succumbing to Microsoft
Great UI, Install, and useability
Great hardware, if a bit expensive for said hardware
Good (not great) with the GNU universe. It's BSD, first and foremost, so some allowances have to be made
About the only market it isn't able to compete strongly in is games, which Linux has issues with, if for different reasons. Macs + OS X can work with the server space, desktop workstations, development, scientific computing, graphics, office work, and web work.
Caveat, though, is that there is still a very strong reliance on the Classic environment, hopefully to go away very soon as more apps are developed and ported into the Carbon and Cocoa environments.
Still, all the Linux people can probably drop right into a Mac and OS X fairly easily
GPL Deconstructed
"Linux must be this..." "Linux must be that..."
The reason most of us are drawn to this particular OS is because of all the different flavors to choose from. Let Corel or Red Hat make their "standard" Corporate Distro, and the rest of us will use Slackware to learn and play, and Debian for our personal projects. The PPC geek will run yellowdog, &c, &c.
Standardizing Linux will make it the new Windows. This is the most frustrating thing about Linux zealotry: Linux should NOT replace Windows! It should compete with it -- be different from it.
Screwdrivers and wrenches are separate tools for a reason.
ms
"No fingers. Just thumbs."
$666,000? Anyone notice the irony?
why 666k? shouldn't 640k be enough for anybody?
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
The proof is in the pudding: eventually, a giant becomes its own worst enemy, disconnected from the customers it wishes to profit from. My predictions on MS losing its dominance in the next 10 years seems to get more and more likely, because as MS gets richer, others get poorer, until they can't afford /anything/ but a free solution, or cracking what they can't afford.
How do you keep customers if you seem inclined to keep them poor, disempowered, and bitter?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Please... for the love of God. Document your OS programs as if you were speaking to retards. Make little pretty diagrams. Make installation instructions for the layman. If GUI, then have tooltips. Make a tutorial. Even a flash demo with instructions....
Just document. Any documentation is better than none, but unfortunatly, in OSS none is often what is to be found.
-Kraft
Live and let live
Habitat for Humanity is considering the free Linux operating system. But because Microsoft is so dominant, it will be difficult for firms to switch. Windows runs 92% of PCs. Its Office software has better than a 90% market share, Gartner says.
What do you all think about that? I'm not extremely familiar with Linux, I haven't had the time to get really deep into it like I would prefer because here at work we're forced into using MS2000 and I hardly use my computer at home. From what I've heard, it shouldn't be difficult to switch, and once they do, life will be much easier, not to mention less expensive. With the economy the way it is, I wouldn't be surprised if MS did itself in on this one, we may see a fundamental switch in the way OS is viewed if some big time executives get the hint that by using LInux instead of MS, you can save 1.5 million per year and maybe hire back some of the people you layed off...
~ now you know
away from Microsoft. What exactly is the "reasoning" behind not breaking up MS? My work PC I don't care about. I have a SPARC too. I have MSW2K and Linux on the kids' PCs at home but Linux is on mine and I'm going to teach the kids ( and wife ) how to use both. Moving forward MS is not welcome at my place. I will do everything I can to to avoid it. I may fail and wind up with one MSWin PC in the future.
I went to check out the ZD article on standing up to Microsoft. What was planted right in the middle of text using phrases like "Arrogance XP"? That's right, a big "Explore in this space"-style Windows XP AD!
Nice.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
The problem with this, is that everyone's soapboxing about Linux this and Linux that, saying that Linux needs this and Linux needs that, and few are getting it done.
Linux, FreeBSD, etc do not have these shadow corporations of coders available doing all the work. If you think _____ needs _____, learn how to f'in program and start writing it.
We've got plenty of idea makers, now we just need some makers. The next time you feel the urge to open your mouth like this person, consider not opening it and instead, opening a book on C programming.
Wow. So they can automatically put stuff on your computer that will disable software they don't like, and potentially take away your ability to play "Secure Content."
This is pretty intrusive, as things go. I, for one, would prefer in general that nothing gets installed on my computer that I don't specifically authorize.
Note that there seems to be a corrolary effect here. If they are sending stuff to your computer, your computer is really reaching out to their systems, and potentially is providing identifying or other information to them. Scary.
But of course the scariest bit is the "use other software" clause. It's not even qualified! By this reading, they can disable any other piece of software on your computer! Fear.
Of course, it is in the digital rights section of the agreement, but I'm not sure if that forces the "any other software" clause to be software relating in some way to digital rights.
- target
I have to say, I have never seen anything like this, ever.
.NET makes it even more evident.
I honestly think that over the next 20 years, we will see Microsoft's control rise to such a level that not even the US government can oppose them on any level. I mean, they are able to manipulate entire markets. With the flick of a switch, they alone can bring things to a complete halt. With the deprecation or removal of an API, they can put people out of business, or send companies into bankruptcy.
The introduction of
Microsoft... this company... in 20 years will control everything important. They already control 95% of the desktops. They will control almost all messaging. They will control almost all authentication. They will control almost all digital rights management.
Taking down Microsoft after they have such a level of control and we have such a level of dependence would be like us dropping our cars and going back to horses and wagons -- not going to happen.
Honestly, its time for people to wake up before its too late. Do not support this behemoth anymore. Its not about a simple anti-trust case.
This is about one company controlling the most fundamental mechanisms upon which the entire world depends.
And THAT is extremely dangerous.
I have a sneaking suspicion this article is going to have quite a few posts under it.
It looks like this may be the time push Linux earnestly in business, starting by outlining what the collective Microsoft hubris has brought about. Report what linux lacks and perhaps some clever individuals will form companies to resolve these issues. I've been a major proponent for moving to open source at my company for years, and things like this, which hit the bank balance hard, will get the bosses attention.
A different kind of animal
While open source is laudable, the problem is that it confuses "free beer" with "freedom", i.e., "gratis" with "free". This is unfortunate. IMHO, we need to think hard about a system that provides "freedom", but does not restrict a programmer from earning a fair wage.
One possible solution, which I've encountered resistance talking to Congress people on the hill is to add an "optional" expiration date on a copyright, and allow the source code to be submitted via electronic media.. Thus, when you submit your copyright you can optionally choose to limit your copyright to N years. Further, the copyright office could "hold" the source code and make it public on the date that the copyright expires.
Americans *love* stats. What would happen if "copyright term" ended up as one of those columns? And "open source at end of copyright term" was another column? In this way we could compete not only on features and price, but also *when* our software becomes public domain. This is a simple solution, backward compatible, and can be implemented by the copyright office without legislation. It just requires the media to notice that copyright doesn't have to last forever and that making one's code open source can be part of the license agreement.
Maybe we can turn the tables on the "capitalists" by creating a new form of competition... competition for the change in software, competition for when software becomes public property.
Best Wishes! Clark
P.S. For an alternative idea, which is much larger in scale (but may not work as well), you may want to read Distributed Copyright and my letter to Judge Jackson on May 23, 2000. It may not be perfect, but it has some ideas that you and others may want to build upon.
Heck no.
This is illogical. You are contractually bound by all license agreements you agree to. If you do not review them, the consequences could be dire.
Please be more vigilant.
I DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"After two program crashed and relaunched, Ramos moved to a laptop PC and attempted to show Reader 2.0's new ability to provide external links, as to dictionaries other than Microsoft's own Encarta. However, the program chose that moment to crash again."
I work for a software company. Now, my employer (and many other companies such as Veritas, 3COM, and others) has two different revenue streams. The first is from license sales. The second (bigger, dependable, easily forecasted) chunk of our revenue comes from yearly renewable support contracts, which happen to include access to the latest version of our software. This is fairly common practice.
Microsoft has found itself in a position enviable to most software companies. The biggest competition it faces is from older versions of its own software. So they're doing the obvious thing and removing themselves from the competition.
The advantages to Microsoft are obvious. Immediate cash gain, better sustainable revenue, faster phase-out of old product.
Do I like it? In the short term, no. It's expensive as hell and my budget as a partially microsoft shop has taken a huge hit. But in the long term, it removes one of my great annoyances.
It's a complete pain in the ass to have to check the license trail on a typical windows system. Say a computer shipped with Windows '95. I took that '95 license, applied it against another computer when I replaced the windows '95 box (assume non-OEM license), then appied an NT4 upgrade license, followed by a Win2k upgrade license.
That leaves me with 3 different pieces of paper to be accountable for on a moment's notice. Under the new system, I simply need to have the original operating system license, and a software assurance certificate. The advantage to me from a clerical standpoint is obvious.
This doesn't make it all better in the short term, but as a shop that frequently upgrades to the latest and greatest, it will save me lots of time in the long haul.
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
- Isn't opening a Pandora's Box supposed to be a bad thing?
- Who the hell would buy a book that they could only read on Tuesdays?
It seems they're thinking too much about what they can do, and not enough about what they should do.-sk
It's easy to standardize what a corporate PC looks like--just install the same distro on all of them. The only thing then remaining is standardized communication between them and any non-Linux machines. If only we had some kind of RFC process to standardize network communications and if only Linux software followed those standards....
324006
How many people know that George Orwell was just his pen name?
Who cares? No serious who cares? I know two things: Someone publishing under the name George Orwell wrote two absolutely brilliant books - 1984 and Animal Farm. Here in Canada at least when I was in Grade 9 it was required reading (and rightly so). However the real life of the person who wrote it, and whether their name was Kooky Deedooky or they ate monkey butter on their bagles means absolutely, positively nothing to me. A parallel is people who read People magazine to know whether Brad Pitt and Scooby Doobie are back together, etc: Who gives a shit? Either they can act or they can't, and beyond that I don't care. I'm not looking for a cult of personality.
Well all I read is "I Accept".
Karma whorin' since 1999
Two nice quotes...
..it will hunt its users to extinction before it notices anything wrong.
and
But time is running out.
I say we should stop wasting our valuable time and energy trying to tell people how bad Microsoft is (whether they are evil or not). Microsoft makes a drug, and lots of people are addicted. Microsoft wants to suck as much out of it's addictees as it can. Eventually, they will try something that will make a useful number of people say "Okay, I've had it! No more Mr. Niceguy!!" and go looking for alternatives. It's already happening in small numbers.
I'd predict that the popularity of opensource/free software will go something like that of the internet. First, the internet was only for academics. Then, for a VERY small number of "regular" people (hah, they had to have a computer and modem, which weren't that prevelant at the time). Now, getting online can be grunt-and-drool easy. I say that free software is somewhere between being for "regular" people and "grunt-and-drool easy" (closer to "regular people"). In, maybe 20 years (okay, maybe less, we'll see) it could be REALLY popular.
That is, unless Microsoft or it's monopolistic successor gets in there and decides to try that "playing nice and fair" thing.
(Ironic... that I would waste my time saying that HERE.)
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
Can someone please explain how regulating an abusive monopoloy like Microsoft hurts the economy?
Can someone please explain the linkage that this Judge sees between the WTC attack and allowing Microsoft to continue its crime spree?
Microsoft and the Microsoft Tax is, in fact, a drag on the economy. Microsoft was fairly successful at making millions of dollars for a few of their share holders and employees. Other than that, they pay no taxes and only leach money from the economy and corporations that they have enslaved on the upgrade treadmill.
What products does Microsoft make that aren't commoditized and couldn't easily be replaced? None.
The only hope that we have now, once this Judge and the DOJ have capitulated is that the States will seek redress of this case. Perhaps companies like AOL will take it upon themselves to file legal action following this settlement debacle. Also, the US legal system will be looking rather pathetic after the EU and places like Korea crack down while Microsoft skates in the States.
THE ENTIRE LIABILITY OF MICROSOFT [...] SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE OS COMPONENTS OR U.S.$5.00.
what is that, a joke?
hey, how did that post get around the lamness filter? or should i call it the lame-ass filter?
Did you know that in 1998, in Texas, a women cleaning the house of a 71 year old man unplugged his life support to plug the vacuum cleaner. The man died.
t ml
http://www.hawkmoon.dircon.co.uk/archive/1998.h
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
How about IE6 under w2k? I don't find the right buttons %-) Maybe I'm just too tired today... I'll try tomorrow. But tnx anyway!
funny +5
Most everything else in the IT world is standardized: ethernet, for example. Usually the format wars settle down and one clear winner emerges. This need not happen completely with linux, but significant economies of scale would emerge if it did somewhat, because it would be one hell of a lot easier to support. Easy techsupport == corporate adoption.
sulli
RTFJ.
I just double checked my windows update today and saw there was a new patch available. I applied it to all my Windows 2000 machines and I have a (temporarily) secure server platform with one of the best GUI's out there and unmatched hardware & software support. Not to mention a built in web browser that never crashes, and didn't require any lengthy downloads. And I don't have to worry about losing precious support, since Microsoft is in no danger of going out of business anytime soon.
Frankly, I like windows 2000, and until something better comes along, I'm going to stick with it.
(Before you mod this as flamebait reread the parent message. Then mod both messages as flamebait)
"But there is another option. Companies, like individuals, have the power to disobey. An embargo of Microsoft products, of buying them, licensing them, paying fees due or any other action that puts money in Microsoft's bank account, would do the trick."
Which I do. I use Linux. The problem is, I also use Windows on an equal basis, and there is simply no reason in my mind why I shouldn't. If I want to run the plethora of programs coded into binaries for Win32, I use Windows. If I'm just browsing the internet, or listening to music, I use Linux. It's just the way things stand.
This all or nothing attitude is what kills the Open Source movement. I for one want a "get my cake and eat it too" mandate. I will use Linux, but the zealots are ignored at this point.
How many of you remember when Scully left Apple and Micheal Spindler was large and in charge?
He stood in front of the assembled masses and said "We are committed to maintaining high shareholder value."
Microsoft is now doing exactly what Apple did. Microsoft is working to maximize its cash flow, and that means taking as much as they can from the pockets of its customers. Doing anything BUT this might subject them to shareholder lawsuits.
Just like IBM once did. And Apple once did. Both companies had a crash and burn phase, and have had a rebuilding phase. Microsoft is now heading to the crash and burn phase. They will eventually rebuild, as they are a cash rich company.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
where did the author see the note about the Win Media Player being able to shutoff other software? Looked through the eWeek article, didnt see it.
/. Book Review when I get done. The last chapter is titled 'MS Loses Even If It Wins' Book is about 400 pages, and I'm about 250 through it. Should be interesting...)
Even still, such a thing as arbitary software shutoff would of course be illegal.
Analogy: I own a Ford F1 pickup and a Saturn. Let's say I use the Ford to go to the furniture store to pickup my new couch. GM can't shutoff my Ford because I didnt use the Saturn. Such an act would be anti-competitive. Doesnt matter to GM that the couch wont fit in the Saturn.
Translation: I have a RealVideo clip I wish to view. If MS were to have WMP arbitrarily shutoff RealPlayer, it would be anticompetitive because people wont be able to use RP over WMP. Doesnt matter to MS that WMP doesnt support RealVideo.
Of course, this is MS, who's already been found an illegal monopoly etc etc (twice!). Lastly, IANAL.
(ot: I am reading a book right now on the whole antitrust case. I'm planning on a
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
The whole phrase "digital rights management" is a BS term if I ever heard one. It's all about use restrictions. They only call them "rights" because it's a nice feel-good term, even though it doesn't describe the technology at all. Just replace "rights" with "restrictions" and the quotes read much more easily and honestly:
This will open a Pandora's box," he said, promoting the idea of "elaborate restrictions." These, he said, could move the concept of buy-once restrictions to time-based restrictions -- "you can make it so the user can, say, only read this book on Tuesday" -- or location-based restrictions.
From Webster's dictionary (www.m-w.com):
"Main Entry: Pandora's box
Function: noun
Etymology: from the box, sent by the gods to Pandora, which she was forbidden to open and which loosed a swarm of evils upon mankind when she opened it out of curiosity
Date: 1579
: a prolific source of troubles"
And this is how their own "Director of worldwide marketing" describes it.
No Media Player for me!
sulli
RTFJ.
it's nice to think the market will do to MS what it did to IBM, but you must remember that with IBM viable alternatives which functioned *identically* to IBM's product were available.
with MS there is no 'windows clone' to switch to, the only way that the market could take care of MS is by switching to another product, and right now there is nothing. linux is not what most people need. i doubt it ever will be.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
Well, I admit that I DO skim them to ensure that the product does not contain any "features" that I don't want.
Other than that, I doubt that these agreements would stand up in court. They are not signed. The company does not get a copy. What agreement?
ZDNet sure is being tough here. They sure are making a *bold* stand here. When I followed the link the Microsoft Ad for Office XP in the *middle* of the page took up more space than the damn article.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
The truth is, the new upgrading scheme might become a boon for other "movements", including Open Source. IT directors will see the new scheme and make one of two choices:
1.) Follow it, and receive the "discounts" incurred with every 2-year upgrade.
2.) Not purchase anything.
This is different than previous licenses, where "not purchase anything" meant skipping an upgrade cycle. If Microsoft penalizes IT directors for skipping a cycle by charging more for the next cycle, IT directors will simply skip that one too. They aren't stupid. They will wait until they have enough money to purchase the latest and greatest upgrade, and move everyone at that point (at a much longer base than every 2-3 years).
"Locked in" means absolutely nothing. In fact, if this plays out logicially, the opposite will come true.
Does anyone else get tired of the constant MS bashing on here? I realize I'm going to get modded down for this, but the constant barrage just reeks of some sort of jealousy / geek insecurity.
Stop it.
jack's bicycle is music to my ears
Windows 98 works just fine. Okay, it crashes a bit, but it's not worth the hassle.
"Nobody needs more than $640K"
Particularly since resolution to this trial has been delayed for how long now??
I guess the "good" side of this is that by then, .NOT will make it clear exactly how deep into everyone's computers microsoft aims to be.
My boss used to say that the best way to fight silly rules is to follow them to the letter.
I hope Microsoft continues to piss people off. The more absurd and draconian the licenses are, the better. It will convince people to look elsewhere.
The reason people stick with Microsoft is because its easy. The more difficult Microsoft makes things for their customers, the better it is for the alternatives. This is the downfall of monopolies.
This trial crap is just a rear-guard action. I say let Microsoft go completely. Given all the shit they try to pull, they'll hang themselves. The court system is just drawing all this out. If the public gets smacked, they'll smack back hard.
The only thing I wish the government would do is force Microsoft to reveal all its agreements with venders. The public hates the perception of a conspiracy against them.
They need to suffer blowback!
(Adding to the discussion of how to make Linux better)
RPM is great (unless you're trying to compile version 4), but Linux really really really needs (in addition to Office compatibility, a great browser and a great desktop) a standard setup program that will work on most, if not all, versions.
I'm aware of Debian and apt-get, etc. (and those are great) But there should also be a "double-click setup.exe" process of installing programs on Linux, and a similarly easy way of uninstalling them, with NO ERROR MESSAGES ABOUT MISSING VERSIONS OF SOME OBSCURE 9k LIBRARY FILE OR HAVING VERSION 1.07 OF A PROGRAM WHEN THE NEW PROGRAM WANTS VERSION 1.08!!
ALL required libraries should be included with every setup archive. Period. Sending people (even developers) out on the Internet in search of some library is the fastest way to make using Linux very irritating.
Then, perhaps we could have Installshield for Linux, which would be awesome, especially if it worked with apt and apt-get. ^^
Just another $0.02
"I wonder what colour the Blue Screen of Death is in her world?"
I think brown is the color of blue viewed through rose-colored glasses.
"We can't come up with anything new or innovating that would entice you to upgrade, so we'll just *force* you to upgrade instead."
-brain
All Microsoft has to to in a future mandatory "upgrade" is introduce new file formats that contain a trivial form of encryption, in the name of security, and then Microsoft doesn't only own the tools that you use to work.... they own the work that you do with those tools. It would be illegal for any software but Microsoft's to read your work. Don't pay, they disable the software, and your work is worthless. How's that for a scenario?
What's the advantage of 30-50% more anyway? We got slammed with the microsoft tax to the tune of over 50k this year. We are a small manufacturing outfit, and that was over 1/4 of my budget. Now we have to pay that much more for product we will never upgrade to? Hell, I purchase office 2000 and win 2k server licenses, and install office 97 and nt 4. 50% percent more for the right to install products that suck less seems more than a little exhorbitant to me.
I'd really like to put linux on people's desktops, but unfortunatly, I can't see the people- some of whom can barely use a mouse, using linux.
Ackk, the CFO is gonna have a fit!
I wonder what would happen if hundres or thousands of people were to buy copies of Windows XP, and then refuse to click "I ACCEPT" on the click thru license.
Obviously you should go back to the store and demand a refund, since you did not have a full copy of the license on the outside of the box.
The cost to the retailers will make them start protesting to microsoft.
Are you paranoid if you know that they just want to know everything you say and do?
I, for one, would prefer in general that nothing gets installed on my computer that I don't specifically authorize.
That's one great reason to use Linux, or another Open Source OS.
I dual boot, but I haven't booted over to windows in months. I think it's time to wipe that partition....
You see, in the universe I am from, we too have organizations called ZDNET and Microsoft. However, in my universe, ZDNET has always been anxious to please Microsoft any way they could, to the point of fawning over any MS release.
Reading the link from the article, I see things are different in this universe - I cannot imagine stronger commentary against Microsoft. If anybody can give me pointers on how to get back home....
On second thought, my credit cards work, my Slashdot account works, and this universe seems to be just a bit better. Maybe I'll stay.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Not if you're fundamentally evil.
That said, Microsoft seems to be simply protecting its file format. They can only affect software that can read protected WMA files (which, at this point, only includes Media Player). It would be silly to assume, especially in a lawsuit-driven atmosphere like copyright infringement, that Microsoft would allow other software to visibly change/take over rights management from the OS. Just think if record companies started getting into a lawsuit war with Microsoft!
Bottom line: it's their file format, not an open one, people. They are free to control it however they wish. If you don't like it, don't use it.
Orwell quote: "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face. Forever".
Not well known is that the details of "1984" come primarily from Blair's job at the British Ministry of Information during WWII, translating scripts into the 1000-word vocabulary of Basic English for transmission to British colonies.
Look.. I'm not exactly a big supporter of Microsoft, but this brand a blatantly inflammatory rhetoric is just childish.
USAToday discovers the new upgrade scheme, designed to milk every last cent out of those who've locked themselves into Windows.
Translation: Microsoft will be charging for significant upgrades.
And why shouldn't they? They spend time and money creating the upgrades...aren't they justified in trying to recoup some or all of that cost, so they can continue to offer product upgrades in the future? Micosoft is a business, same as any other. They stay in business by making money. That doesn't make them evil. If you happen not to like how they go about doing things, then you use Linux, which many of us do..myself included. Its as simple as that. Theres no point in demonizing a company for doing the exact same thing YOU would be doing in their shoes.
MS discusses its plans to control how you compute (by the way, the license agreement for Windows Media Player now allows Microsoft to disable any software on your computer - you do read those license agreements, don't you?)
Translation: Microsoft wants users to have a solid, consistant computing platform, rather than a disorganized assembly of argumentative standards that disrupt, aggrevate and annoy most users.
Ugh..More fear-mongering. You'll notice it says "disable" and not "uninstall", by the way. Disabling other products is a common practice. RealPlayer, Netscape, IE, all engadge in this. So, of course they're trying to "control how you compute".. So are we. Thats the whole purpose of an operating system. Again, don't demonize another party for something you engadge in as well. Now, the next topic -- Windows Media Player. Windows Media Player is a Microsoft product, designed to work with other Microsoft products. That includes the underlying OS. If something gets in the way of its task, it has a right to remove that "thing" so it can perform correctly. After all, by choosing installing WMP, you're basically inferring that you want to use it, are you not? Why else would you want to install it, unless you wanted it to run? This is the whole point of an 'upgrade' in the first place. You are replacing something that either does not work (or doesnt work well enough) with something that does work. So what are you really complaining about here? Sensical, consistant design? Admittedly, its a heavy handed approach, but XP is an OS for beginners that dont want to worry about how things are internally. They just want them to work. Period. And is that so wrong? Isn't that what we all want for Linux, ultimately, as well?
Like I said.. I dont like Microsoft all that much either. But I know an unfair criticism when I see it. Laying that sort of fearmongering onto a captive audience several hundred thousand wide is not only childish but terribly irresponsible, IMHO.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
The problem that the software will silently update your OS regardless of whether the license will stand up in court. You won't know what happened.
The only people I have ever seen told to RTFM, and people who jump into discussion and ask "How do I get XYZ to run?"
If you provide some information regarding your problem, and what you have tried to solve the problem yourself. You will find the Linux people are the most friendly and helpfull people you will ever find.
Ask an unanswerable question, and get a RTFM answer.
Not everyone deserves a 320i
Where do you want to go today?
Better make up your mind quick, your license expires in 10 days.
Hammer of Truth
What's to stop Microsoft from performing random audits of home users for pirated software? And then making an example of them to scare other people into not pirating MS products? They keep doing this to smaller and smaller companies, what's to stop them from going to home users?
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
true dat. whether or not somebody knows this sort of trivial crap has absolutely no bearing on their interpretation or appreciation of the author's message and ideas.
sigs are for suckers
From what I have read this will just be another 6 week delaying action that works in Microsoft's favor.
Why can't the courts decide upon a course of action and take it?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
...But just when are people going to realize they DO NOT have to put up with this BS? (Skip to the end for something that's not redundant.)
I love how the ZD Net article is titled: "Time to stand up to Microsoft" (and right plop in the middle of the article is an advirtisement for "Windows Solutions"). It's utterly absurd.
Linux and other free OS solutions are WITHOUT A DOUBT usable in a business setting. They are proven to be largley inexpensive, relatively easy to deploy, don't have seat/use restrictions, and show better performance records.
Duh.
I'm preaching to the choir here, but I think it's important to proliferate this message to as many people through as many channels as possible. CLEARLY, corporations who feed Microsoft are still uneducated that free software solutions aren't "low quality" just because they don't cost money.
(Original thoughts follow.)
What causes people and businesses to constantly whine about how much Windows sucks? Meanwhile, they constantly shell out the bucks to pay for new/more copies of it, all the while completely ignoring the free software alternatives. Do they think the situation is ever going to improve?
I know it sounds rash, but it is not possible for any largely used, proprietary solution to "improve". Proprietary solutions involve one controlling body. It's a tyrrany, not a democracy (as people are complaining that Microsoft "does not listen"). ONLY free software will get better because it is not driven by greed and profit alone. Greed snowballs and gets bigger and poses more influence on the product. That's the Microsoft case.
The longer they last, the more greedy they will become, the more money they will want to suck up. Unless there's no money there to consume, the beast will only get stronger and bolder.
Why bother.
Which is why I skim the agreement to ensure that they do not update my OS.
All the rest of the restrictions about installation, alterarion, and transfer, I ignore.
Wow. Was this a ZDNet article... or a /. post? =)
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
Ok,I guess it's still not that clear.
ahem, (clears throat)
JUST SAY NO!
I understand that Teresa Pudi is the Director of Information Services at H4H. She has a voice-mail line. Please go easy...
(229) 924-6935, ext. 2110
We all have let them get away with this for too long. Say what you will about IBM 20 years ago, but they actually supported their software products *gasp*! There was no "It's fixed in the next version" or "We don't support that anymore (even tho it's only 3 years old)" garbage.
The gubmint investigating is not going to do anything but waste more money. We have allowed MS to get away with this monopolistic abuse for far too long. We need to rediscover the customer mindset that insists on getting what we pay for, and that includes support. We need to re-think the reasons for making software purchases and no longer accept being treated like second-hand citizens.
The only real solution - outside of a breakup which seems more and more unlikely - is to vote with our feet. Individual and business customers who buy Microshaft products need to make a statement that the old MS way of doing business is no longer acceptable. We need a big company or two to REFUSE to upgrade and INSIST on getting support for products we've already bought. Either that or switch platforms
The last hope may be the continuing states' lawsuits against the evil empire. And other nations' efforts as well. A nice big lawsuit or two by some major players wouldn't hurt. As long as the Fed's findings of fact stand we may yet get some satisfaction.
On a side note, the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans came out yesterday. Billy Boy still ranks #1, although last year he was listed as having $63 billion and this year he's down to $54 billion. That means Emperor Gates lost $9 billion in the last year. Oh, how my heart bleeds for him.
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.
(Nov. 21, 1864 letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
Companies have made huge investments in technology, and if they have standardized on one platform it is difficult to get them to change. But this may be the push that is needed. What Linux and Apple people must do is calculate and show how an initial investment in another system now will ultimately be far cheaper then sticking it out. If they can show that the one-time cost will be negated in a matter of months or years, their market share may increase quickly, as now is a rare time when management is actually considering alternatives. If you think about it, a few months ago many would have laughed at warnings that Microsoft was planning such a money scheme. They aren't laughing now.
One interesting thing mentioned in the USA Today article was at the end.
Its Office software has better than a 90% market share, Gartner says.
One of the biggest things MS has over the corporate market is its productivity software, Office. Over and over again, that is cited as one of the things that has little competition in the minds of CTOs. However, they forget that there is a fully functional, very polished and current version available for Mac OS and soon Mac OSX. Unless they have a specific program they must run on Windows, a switch may be cheaper in the long run. And now is the big chance for StarOffice and other Linux suites. If they can move fast enough, and create a viable alternative that is polished and compatable with MS Office, they may be able to convince companies to make the switch.
we will see Microsoft's control rise to such a level that not even the US government can oppose them on any level
Personally, I'm hoping that the US government grows so small that they won't be able to regulate ANYTHING regarding the "free" market...
Think about it, if you removed all of the regualtions on industry today, it would be FAR easier to start a competing business... If it didn't cost millions in taxes (in addition to the "normal" corporate taxes, I have to match all of my employee's payments to the feds and social [in]security), [gov't] licenses etc., it would be easier to compete with those who are already established...
The way I see it, it's not anti-control / anti-trust, rather, the government is more often than not PROTECTING those with established large market-share, more like anti-competition... Have YOU tried to start a business lately?
That that is is not that that is not. That that is not is not that that is.
I'm a little confused. Does the new subscription-type upgrade apply to everyone or just corporate, volume licensing?
Worse than that. Since accessing any non-Microsoft secured operating system is a "breach of security" (Microsoft can't enforce rights management on Linux), that means that SAMBA or any technology that can be used to transfer files to Linux must either be disabled or modified so that it will do what Microsoft wants it to do.
Isn't this just proving that Microsoft can do anything it wants because there is next to nil competition?
One would think that they would be at leat as intelligent to forgo pissing the IT world off further until the neat little monopoly lawsuit was finished... Looks like Linux will be propelled by M$'s horrible business practices even further/faster than before *grin*
"license agreement for Windows Media Player now allows Microsoft to disable any software on your computer"
This cannot be true, in the sense I read your remark.
Any software?
Please, someone, get score 5 and be informative!
I've thought about tinkering w/Linux before, but this latest iteration of MS bullying just might get me going...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
http://itx1001.cybercentral.com/itx1001/web/gues t/ Session.do?action=display&id=201
If any of you are going to the Gartner thing in Florida next week, this seminar will give you way too much info on MS's new licensing.
Better watch out, Microsoft will probably charge each user $49 dollars to open this Pandora's box, since they currently have no software that supports it.
Wow. So they can automatically put stuff on your >computer that will disable software they don't >like, and potentially take away your ability to >play "Secure Content."
I'm no expert on this, however, I believe what they mean is that through this automated process, they may inadvertantly disable other software due to changes (incompatibles) in the codecs in question.
Of course, this would only cause applications that rely on Microsoft's codecs to fail.
Of course, seeing as I haven't read the EULA I could be wrong.
The EULA doesn't mention the WMA format anywhere. All it says is "Secure Content". The XP one specifically refers to third parties, so it's not just thier format. And we all know, from the DMCA, that ANYTHING can be considered "Secure Content" - even, with the right judge, MP3s.
Their license doesn't limit their rights to only protecting the WMA format. That's the problem. They're reserving a wide-open right to disable anything on your system. The fear of lawsuits may limit what they choose to disable, but that limitation may not be enough to protect whatever free software you have installed.
I'm starting to reject software with questionable clauses in their license. I'm even starting to reject software with licenses that are too long and boring to read.
It seems to me that we need some standard commercial licenses that vendors could reference by name the way the GPL is referenced by name. Then vendors who use those standard licenses would not burden us with having to read a new license.
Consider the free "personal edition" of Borland's JBuilder 5. It has a license for personal, non-commercial use. After using their products for years, I was shocked to find a new paragraph in this license. It is section 7, "Audit Rights". It requires the user to maintain "books of account" and to allow Borland to perform an on-site license audit at five days' notice. Clearly this section was intended for businesses and should be deleted from a non-commercial license, but I'm tired of the fact that every license is different and cannot be trusted not to contain nasty surprises. I want to do my own work, not read licenses all the time.
IBM wants to bury the hatchet in MS' collective head over what they did to them over the years. Just because they derive revenue from MS on the desktop doesn't mean that they derive all their revenue from that. In fact, the desktop's not where they get the big cash from- it's servers and solutions. Guess what? When they're selling lots of Linux answers on Z/Series machines, etc. they're going to be on the Linux bandwagon for a while- one source tree for the customer's apps, many platforms to scale to and expect it all to largely work out of the box.
This is a dream for IBM.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
You don't understand, the vast majority of people are clueless when it comes to those issues, they can't make the difference between WMA or RAM files, and they are not only controlling their file format: they are controlling the software on your computer, and they could for example cripple another software that can be used to edit those file.
Imagine this: some other company publish a software competing with Microsoft video editing software. Oops, that software get broken by the silent upgrade.
Or this: compuserve decide to go awry on .gif and get in your computer and cripple all the software you could use to view those gifs. Oh, it's their format, right? According to your logic, it is. Well, if you don't like gifs, then don't use it. It just doesn't works...
give me all your garmonbozia
Up until now, MS tactics have been to act like Vikings . . . ruthlessly plunder and pillage everything in the IT landscape until there's nothing left but Vikings and land. Now that everything has been pillaged, though, MS has to change to an agrarian model. Now instead of pillaging us they're going to herd and farm us for their living. Can you say "Mooo?"
Profs to all the MS sheep out there who've been lapping up every chunk of puke blowing out of Redmond for the last couple of decades. Thanks for the tyranny.
- Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
Hey, I'm alangrimes@starpower.net , I have been designing an OS for years with the dream of destroying Microsoft. I need partners to help me build a computer company that will deliver the world's best computers with the world's best software.
Stop whining and start fighting! I can show you the way. =)
What is the definition of malfeasance? How bad does a license need to be, before agreeing to it causes one to be guilty?
Or is there some reason why this doesn't apply?
The previous licenses were bad, but this one makes me feel as if it would be a criminal offense to agree to it. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know. Would the crime be in deciding to buy it, in placing the purchase order, or in agreeing to the license? If I'm told to install it, and have written documentation of the order, then who would be guilty?
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
There is a large number of clueless people still driving Buicks, which I consider a POS car. Is it my job to go tell them there are alternatives (when, for their purposes, the Buick works fine)? No. Since when are computer mavens "required" to tell others what is "right and wrong"? Another disappointing, and annoying, activist viewpoint.
Microsoft offers the NT 4 Option Pack as a free download. Among other things, this update adds Internet Information Server 4.0, the last version of IIS released for Windows NT. You can find the download page here, but you'll notice that Microsoft couldn't be bothered to package the files into a self-extracting archive. Consequently, you'll have to separately download all 52 files. Or you could always just upgrade to Windows 2000, which has IIS 5.0 built in (nudge, nudge).
I ran in to this thing about a month and a half ago when rebuilding a NT 4.0 server for a client. This was one thing to really piss me off in addition to everything else that day. In my rage I sent an e-mail to bill@microsoft.com with the URL of the offending page and attached a copy of WinZip. Ofcourse all I got was a bot inresponse.
Oh well I tried.
NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF ANY VERSION OR EDITION OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, MICROSOFT WINDOWS MILLENUM EDITION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000 OPERATING SYSTEM OR ANY MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THOSE OPERATING SYSTEMS (EACH AN "OS PRODUCT"), YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.
And look at this fine print. "Still using Windows 95 or NT? Tough luck - you have NO rights, and you can't even use our software anymore." I'd LOVE to see them try and take someone to court on changes of installing the latest version of Windows Media Player on Windows 95. (Although this is probably mostly CYA so nobody comes after them for their $5 in damages if it doesn't work on a "legacy" OS.)
Seen any BadMarketing lately?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"That said, Microsoft seems to be simply protecting its file format. They can only affect software that can read protected WMA files (which, at this point, only includes Media Player)"
But the content does not belong to MS, so why should they have the retroactively remove your right to access content that you put into that format.
Your argument would apply equally well to the MS using their control over the format of MS Word documents to prevent you from accessing the content of documents you create.
Next thing you know Microsoft will start traning a MS militia, amassing nuclear arms and annexing companies (wait, they aready do that). The newly formed MS.I.A. and MS.B.I. will already have a wire tap in houses containg MS os computers that are connected to the internet. Before long we will be the United States of Microsoft and Bill Gates will be the Fuehrer. A box of ashes (what used to be the Constitution and the Bill of Rights) will be delivered to the American public.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
irony:
1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning -- called also Socratic irony
2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance
3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play -- called also dramatic irony, tragic irony
You have to click the link to Balmer. It is damn hilarious. They talk about him going ape-shit on stage(quote from the article "his elbows even sweat"). There's actually a video out there on the net where he basically went crazy on stage. It is so funny. He's running around like a mad man, sweating from about every pore on his body, screaming "Developers!, Developers", jumping up and down.
Ha,
... read to the bottom. Must be running on w2k.
I was reading one of the links in the article above and got this
"
Q and A
After his speech Ramos opened the floor to questions from the sparse audience. The first asked if Reader 2.0 would be released for the Macintosh platform.
"We have no tangible plans for a Mac version," Ramos said. He listed cell phones, PDAs, PCs, digital cameras and other devices as considered targets.
Perhaps most ominously for Microsoft and its plans for securing media rights, one questioner stated that Reader 2.0 had already been hacked, opening up Reader-format e-books for copying to more than the allowed four locations. Ramos denied that Reader had been cracked.
Ironically, by that point most of the audience had left, possibly to attend a panel discussion about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
"
Microsoft's version of sprituality:
"Double-click the lifestone to attune your spirit to the lifestone"
What does this mean for WINE?
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
I thought about upgrading to WMP 7.1 (I dual boot on here) and now reading that, I've decided aganist it. I'm still using WMP 6.4. Hehehe. I want to see Micro$oft try disabling THAT or any other software on my computer. Hehe.
Reality is for those who can't face Science Fiction.
But wait, your iglo costed 66.666 in materials to construct:
...I don't wanna say it.
$23.33 - Combo Spade/IceShovel
$23.33 - LowFlow Toilette bowl
$23.33 - 6lbs of canned Beans, a deck of Matches, 6 pack of Beer
$0.00 - Gnu IceCubes
Total -
But I'm sure you already Gnu that.
so? Media Player won't run under 95/NT4 anyway.
Well, I think I remember someone refering to GPL as a virus. This is funny, because from the tech report article:
An analyst in the aforementioned News.com story hit the nail on the head when he said "Can Microsoft grow much past 92 percent market share on the desktop? There's no new room for growth for new customers on the desktop. In fact, it's a declining market...
It seems that we are really observing a well known pattern.
So who is a virus now ?
Fucking CIO's and CEO's bitching about the cost increase. Told ya so. Ha ha pay up idiots. Pay up for being real stupid morons.
Female Prison Rape in NY
It has been an urban legend since 1996 BUT a similar story happened in 1998.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
Tried it, says you need 98,me,2000..etc... to install this program...
typical
Cruise TT
... maybe help could be too? :)
"Habitat for Humanity is considering the free Linux operating system. But because Microsoft is so dominant, it will be difficult for firms to switch. Windows runs 92% of PCs. Its Office software has better than a 90% market share, Gartner says."
Isn't that an excellent opportunity to promote your favourite OS?
:)
That last part worked right in with the overall theme of "crashing, and then crashing again". :) But just imagine the Microsoft Reader error message:
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
- the first medieval transcriber got confused and left off the "K" (cause it didn't make sense at the time), and
- if the fellow who wrote the book to begin with was
... *cough cough* ... looking prophetically at Slashdot's rendition of Bill Gates as a Borg...
Wasn't there some little verse in the Book of Revelations about the number of the beast???...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
I really do not understand the problem here. If you don't like the product, don't use it. If you don't like the price to upgrade, don't upgrade. Billy boy is not holding a gun to your head! Your world will not end if you are not using the latest MS product. Quit whining about a situation in which you have complete control over what happens to you!
Now, more than ever,
as William Wallace in Brave Heart
and Richard Stallman said,
"Freeeeeeedooomm"
:-)
In addtion to the Windows, Office, and Exchange upgrades that Microsoft is trying to make mandatory, they have instituted a similar scheme covering a product over which they have much more control. By "expiring" MCSE certification for hundreds of thousands of users, they are trying to force people to upgrade to Windows 2000 or Windows XP certification. This provides instant revenue from people paying to take tests and buy test prep books, but it also dovetails nicely with the software upgrade scheme.
Forcing MCSE upgrades creates a pool of people qualified to support the new software that companies are forced to purchase. They actually have the leverage to force IT people to learn new software so companies will have people qualified to install and manage the new stuff, thereby removing one of the biggest roadblocks to constant upgrading.
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
haven't upgraded yet and i don't plan to. wmp 7.0 is such a piece of shit anyway.
Got Freedom?
Thinking?
if i came to apple with a copy of macos 6 and asked them to sell me an upgrade edition for os X cheap, do you think they would bother?
they're not talking about stopping you from using whatever, they're just not supporting it anymore. aren't we all used to using programs that aren't supported anymore? after all, we're linux users. we know all about 0.34 revisions of programs that never get updated.
your bitching is insanely hypocritical.
If you have questions on windows XP, you should check this page or rather you shouldn't because you will read :
Microsoft® Windows XP Professional
Common Questions
This product does not offer Common Questions.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
But if Microsoft doesn't want you to compete with them, they won't let you. So you'd trade the control of a giant, faceless, but ultimately somewhat representationally controlled government for the control of a giant, faceless, and entirely greed-oriented company? I thought most people wanted to move out of the company town...
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
MS is working to market itself and it's format to the Music and Movie industry. They can't very well market themselves as a product that dis-allows "PIRACY" if their product allows other products to circumvent a "secure" format. The use of "secure" in this case is a wide open word that reduces the need to constantly redefine the EULA every time a new format pops up or MS rebrands one of their products. MS is also attempting to fall into the Napster-microscope-in-the-ass-lawsuit-fiasco. Think about if MS allowed for the playing of "secured formats" that someone didn't have a license for despite the fact that they had technology to stop this. The music and movie industry would be all over them trying to sway judges to get 100% compliance or shut the company down. Again this goes right back to the CYOA policy that most companies keep, because there are other companies out there gunning for any chance to take them out (AOL/TW, Oracle, Sun) digging through trash, scouring EULA's, decompiling code hoping to find some little "Sun sux!" or "if(appName.equals("AOL")){BSOD();}".
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
This is my first post, so I'll try to be concise.
I believe there is a way to at least "prevent" an auto update from M$. All you have to do is run a firewall of some sort (I run zonealarm), and when you install the media player, simply deny the program access to the internet when it tries. If the program is denied access, it can't check for the update, and well... no problem.
IIRC, this should theoretically prevent the auto upgrade from happening yes?
I mean, you won't be able to upgrade from that point on, but at least you'll have a version of media player that lets you do some things.
"Not the Earth!!! That's where I keep all my stuff!!!" - The Tick
Profits are not affected by share price. it's the other way around..
That's guy's sig was bothering me too, so I figured out how to fix it. The solution was to logon as administrator, re-enable some auto-install option in IE, and then go to a page that's in a japanese (or chinese or whatever) character set. Then IE will prompt you to install a language pack which gives you the correct fonts.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
You're an ideological fool if you think only regulations and taxes are significant
...as are you if you think that you can negate "monopolistic practices" with taxes and regulation.... The original poster implied that if the government can't stand up to Microsoft, no one can... If you are going to try and fix the things that you see as wrong with the way a company manipulates the market by manipulating the market with government regulation, you're just going to exacerbate the problem...
My point is that looking to the government to prevent what you see as an unfair condition from occuring is like playing whack a mole - no mater how many problems you "squash", more will always appear. I think you'll also find that more often than not, the new problems will be the result of the "fixes" that were implemented in the past...(ex. Medicare was meant to allow people cheaper access to healthcare, but in the end, the result was that healthcare came to cost much, much more...)
That that is is not that that is not. That that is not is not that that is.
You know, Microsoft's current policys, coming as they do in a time of belt tightening, are the best thing that has ever happened to me -- as an advocate of Macs and UNIX!
You see, there isn't just one useful GUI OS for PCs...there are a couple dozen, of which two of my favorites are Solaris and Mac OS X. Each of these is more reliable and in some ways faster than windows XP, each is more customizable graphically and each has a full suite of applications that run under them. And there's very low upgrade costs -- OS X's new upgrade costs $20 for a CD which can be used on every installation you can find! Combine this with both systems having painless hardware upgrades that don't require reinstalling the OS, and I find that Microsoft's marketeers are doing my pro-Graphical UNIX preaching for me!
Windows XP: How are you going to pay today?
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Anyone who's taken a high school chemistry class knows that Bill Gates earned $667,000 last year.
In other words... not only will the Supreme Court rule on measures to prevent future violations, they'll also rule that Microsoft must go back in time and prevent the past violations as well. Hey, that's what she said: "...prevent not just past violations..."
Most firms will see costs rise 33% to 107%, research firm Gartner says. A company with 5,000 desktops will see its 3-year upgrade cost for Microsoft Office, for instance, jump from about $900,000 to $1.5 million, it says.
In other words, total cost of ownership is less than that of free operating systems such as Linux and *BSD. What a bunch of bull. I believe companies with a large number of computers should put together a dedicated "software team" composed of hackers and admins. (Ones with some real skills.) This team would install and administer free operating systems & software AND contribute to the projects as well. This, I believe, would yield a LOWER cost of ownership than using this Microsoft rubbish. The added advantages would be: enormous reduction in viruses and other compromises; custom features can be implemented; complete control over the system; no more fears of audits; easy and inexpensive compliance with license agreements (companies actually spend big dollars on license management software when using a lot of commercial software); many other benefits.
There are a lot of (angry) chief information officers out there," says Steven Steinbrecher, CIO for California's Contra Costa County.
Good. Maybe now, the damn suits will finally realize that it doesn't pay to spend a lot on buggy, crappy software, no matter how glossy the sales presentation is.
Other companies subscribing to Microsoft's "Open" or "Select" volume-licensing programs also complained about the change in licensing but requested anonymity. Several recounted similar stories about Microsoft pressuring them to upgrade Office versions more frequently. "They kept bringing up the BSA (Business Software Alliance) and insinuating about software audits," said one technology manager. "We got the message, all right: Upgrade to Office XP or else."
Maybe the Supreme Court should rule that Microsoft must change its name to Mafiasoft, to better reflect their business practices.
Unfortunately, Windows XP is starting to show some disturbing trends_namely, adding stuff that doesn't really need to be part of an operating system.
Really?! Gee, I didn't notice that the OS had a bunch of non-OS features! Why, even ITS always had a web browser built into the kernel!
Customer: I have a problem with Windows.
Me: Someday, you will learn that you can't win with Windows. Until then, may God save your soul.
"Ramos then talked more generally about Microsoft's plans for digital rights management.......... .Net plans, would add up to "persistent rights management," Ramos said"
.xls, .ppt) and the outlawing of reverse engineering the same under the DMCA. MS WILL hold your data hostage until you're paid up and I am certainly making my moves NOW to protect my data and my liberties. Linux, BSD are the future. Hang on to your old (non-time limited) W95/98 etc. and an old PC so you don't get screwed out of your own data. I just hope, more people and corporations catch on to that option.
"This will open a Pandora's box," he said, promoting the idea of "elaborate rights." These, he said, could move the concept of buy-once rights to time-based rights -- "you can make it so the user can, say, only read this book on Tuesday" -- or location-based rights.
This, plus Microsoft's
Yes, that is what I really want. Have Microsoft or anyone else for that matter, control WHEN I can read a book. Maybe they can also control when I go to the bathroom (MS Toilet). I'd rather eat some maggots before I buy into that scheme.
Anyhow, since I prefer my books printed on dead trees, I am not so concerned about the eBooks. However, there are many more concerns, such as file formats (.doc,
I believe there is an even more restrictive reader already for the mac, created by Adobe(think dmitry)
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Did anyone else get a M$ ad in the "hoists the black flag" article? Here I was reading about how Microsoft's monopolistic practices were making the world a horrible place and right in the center of the page is an ad touting Office XP's "Features you need, when you need them"
I find it rather humorous that you can't use microsoft software to create a webpage that disparages the company, but you can use their copyrighted promotional material (I am assuming M$ has copyrighted it's advertisments) on a site that does just that.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
a REAL alternative to Microsoft for corporate users would be an open-source NT clone. Quite a few small companies are completely dependent on their vertical-market applications. These companies (such as mine) can't consider Linux without support from their vendors, who often don't have high enough margins to justify development under Linux on the off chance that a market will emerge. An NT clone would allow companies like mine to use their current mission-critical software while telling M$ to kiss their OWN butts for a change. My company (and lots of others) would jump on it with both feet.
How is Microsoft going to prevent me from competing with them? Short of violence, there isn't much they can do - I'll sell my wares to anyone who will buy them. They can't stop me without breaking the (necessary) laws against violence towards person / property.
On the other hand, if you are referring to their practice of producing a product SUPERIOR (in the eyes of the consumer) to the competition's... (and therefore, lessening / eliminating the number of people who will buy my wares...) well, that's the point of a free market, isn't it?
That that is is not that that is not. That that is not is not that that is.
Why should I bother to read all these agreements when:
1) They are printed to be intentionally difficult to read.
2) They are not intelligible to anyone not schooled in the twisted, mangled version of the English language they are written in.
3) I can't afford to pay a lawyer to interpret them for me every time.
4) I would probably still miss the sentence that negates all my rights.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
So lets say they deem MP3 rippers to be software that can copy Secured Media? The record companies already feel this way and we know about their attempts to make copy protected CDs. Well per this News.com article http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-7320279-0.htm l Microsoft is planning to team up with some record lables to have WMA files on copy protected CDs. So they could use the "security" clause to disable the CD ripping software. And they are working with record lables to move the world to use the WMA format.
A BIG TIME SETUP PEOPLE!!!
For desktop OSes? Besides Linux, there's also the Mac platform.
And with the Mac platform, you can keep using Office without the worry or threat of Microsoft dominance on the desktop OS influencing media distribution or gaming, though you may have to consider Apple's Quicktime...
I know, I know, some people don't *want* to switch desktops...
Then there's other Office products too...
GPL Deconstructed
Does anyone really care about Microsoft and their plans to take over the world any longer? I don't. In fact, I hope they succeed. At that time, people will realize that the only way to stop them will be by (para)military force.
We need new software.
no, it would be like los angeles going back to public transportation. not going to happen, you say? you are right, but unlike horses and wagons, public transportation was much better for los angeles than automobiles.
Anyone else see the next Code Red/Nimda here?????
If M$ has left a hole that allows them to install OS components without user consent (presumably even if the user has limited permissions on the box), then there's probably a big gaping security hole there...uh oh, maybe I've said too much...don't want to get a visit from the DMCA police...forget everything I've just said.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
Yeah, I used to consider doing this too, but then I realized, if I'm skimming the article, that I'm just as likely to miss a hugely important clause as I am the definition of "consumer" or whatever legal BS they have in there...
Yes! That guy!
I believe (and I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the MP3 file format supports a 'no copy' BIT. If that bit is set in some of your MP3s, and you have software that can ignore it, that may invoke the DMCA by your having a tool that can bypass the 'protection'.
This is great news. I've had a theory about the inevitable doom of Microsoft for some time now, and it seems to be holding up.
Let's look at the facts:
This creates an interesting dynamic. Microsoft needs to make more money, but they already have really fat margins and a monopoly. Solution? Charge their existing customers more money. Since consumers purchase according to a cost/benefit tally, Microsoft must convince consumers that the benefit of paying more money for upgrades outweighs the costs.
Inevitably, the continually increasing cost will outweigh the benefits. That's what you're seeing now. Windows 2000 is "good enough", and people just don't want to pay any more. Microsoft is trying to force people to upgrade, and people are starting to consider alternatives with a better cost/benefit ratio. End result? Linux and MacOS will thrive because they are more affordable alternatives. The Microsoft monopoly will eventually fade away and Unix will inherit the earth.
This
stealth humor...once it goes over your head, nothing...then it hits you.
Gave me a chuckle, thanks.
Moose
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
If Microsoft crashed and burned, the government could pick up the most significant source code during the bankruptcy sell-off and turn it over to the people.
...)
(... and there'd be free sex and ice cream for everyone
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
I wouldn't think so. WINE is supposed to be a reverse-engineered program that emulates the library calls for Win95/98/whatever, right? So MS should be able to say nothing about WINE as long as reverse engineering remains legal .
Tinted glasses subtract everything but red; they do not add red. Thus, it's more like blue - (everything but red) = black.
This sort of reminds me of the PBS evolution series. Dinosaurs rules the Earth, but there were small mammals at the same time. When conditions changed, the Dinos were no longer able to survive, but the mammals survived and eventually prospered.
If it wasn't clear Dinos==companies that rely too much on microsoft, mammals==companies that use free/open software.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Where I work we lease pc's for two years at a time. Will this make a large difference in the proce of the lease?
Will the initial cost of purchasing rights to use the software go up consierably? If so will the oems eat the cost to keep up sales or will they try to pass it on to customers?
This affects *way* more than just WMA files.
Remember, the an MPEG header has bits for that say whether the file is copyrighted, whether it is protected and whether it is original.
This license agreement would theoretically allow them to install an os component that made copying of mp3 files different than a straight bitwise copy. They could refuese to copy mp3 files with the copyrighted bit turned on. They could flip the bit telling whether the file is original or a copy (thus making a file that is both copyrighted and a copy illegal).
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
I've been trolled? Who's yelling, "Shut the fuck up!" at whom?
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
If you want to stop giving any penny to micro$oft before they take over the internet, take a look at all the companies you can boycott.
Some examples are NCompass, Commerce one, Audible, Corel, LinkExchange, Hitachi, Firefly, Dreamworks, Hotmail, WebTV, Realnames, Verisign, CompUSA, Keen, Radioshack, Expedia, Akamaï, Concentric, WebMD, Nextel, Portugal Telecom, Qwest, Apple, RealNetworks, Comcast, NBC, UUNET.
I also suggest that you read the 12 steps to stop using M$. Very thorough, a MUST.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
I have had it with this greedy arrogant monopoly throwing its weight around all over the place. Someone needs to take these motherfuckers down. It's war, and M$ will be the ones to lose!
LINUX RULES! FUCK MICROSOFT!
Good for you.
There is no media codec that 6.4 won't play that is handled by 7.1 or 8. MS would like you to think so.
Since I refuse to touch wma with a ten foot pole, about the only reason I can think of for even wanting to use MP 7.1 or 8 are 'skins'. Oh, and they have better playlist capabilities. Thank you, but I'll stick with the smaller, faster 6.4, especially since I watch all of my anime fansubs in fullscreen mode anyway.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Apple is *LESS* evil than Microsoft?! Apple attempts to sue people for admitting to using their products. Apple threatens to sue people for making Mac OS X's Mozilla's interface more consistent with the rest of the OS. Microsoft has had plenty of opportunities to do both, but hasn't. Believe me, if Apple had even one tenth the market share of Microsoft, they would be hated ten times as much. Apple is much much MUCH more evil.
They hold a monopoly on hockey games, they use product tying in an horrible way. Haven't you seen those easports.com ads on the boards? They always manage to have some unsatisfied customers and always manage to put a few bugs in the game. EA also removed some features and added unwanted ones. They force us to buy a new version every year and discontinue patch updates for the old version. They even push us to register with EA and use copy protected CD's. They've gone way too far.
If some people can sue MS we sure can sue EA Sports. I mean grow up people, we can always find some dumb things to say about a product. If you don't like Windows, don't use it.
I suppose if you really wanted to, you could combine doublespeak and newspeak together:
Unstrength is strength.
Freedom is unfreedom.
Unpeace is peace.
\me Dons flame-resistant flash suit
Linux is not ready for the desktop (yet)
Until StarOffice is a viable replacement for Office (which it's not, although I have very high hopes for 6.0), Linux must be relagated to the realm of engineers and backoffice work. Still, that's a pretty good place to *start* if you ask me. But there's a problem: you want to have Linux (or *BSD; I'm no zealot) in the server room and slowly migrate it out to the desktops. But you might wind up breaking some things that people want. Like Exchange and Active Directory.
AFAIK, there is no "one-stop" replacement for Exchange like Apache is for IIS. If you're doing the whole "shared calendar and contacts" thing, I've yet to hear about something that can beat it. I've heard people say "Oh, just hack something together using LDAP" but that's not good enough. Corporate types want a "stable and proven solution", not something their geeks cranked out in the course of a month.
And while Netscape does have a Directory Service it isn't as "User Friendly" as AD is. As companies discover how useful a Directory service can be there will be more of a demand for them, but (again, AFAIK) only MS makes the service available to the Desktop user in a clean and consistent fashion.
So we need to both fix the desktop and the back office in order to beat MS. It's a hard task, and a lot to ask for, but I can't wait to see it done.
-- "I am disrespectful to dirt. Can you not see that I am serious!"
Let Bill push em around, let him play his games. He may have a lot of money and influence, then when all of his cronies start turning off computers and turning everyone in to the Govt... then guess what? They'll stop using it. Little man Gates can turn in all of this, and make everyone liable to the point of regulating everything that moves... you know where that'll get him? Dead. Does anyone know the difference between the Govts power and Micros? Pretty simple. Ask the Afghans. He really f's with the Gov't and makes their computers turn off? Then he is F'd. He plays with their computers? F'd. Gleans and prints any sensitive info? He is never seen again.
Besides. Isn't it unnecessary search and seisure when you mess with a person's private property? This man is attempting to do things that you can't do with a search warrant. Isn't it that ONLY established Gov't entities can seize property with a very specific, very well documented search warrant? Trust me, the DoJ is about to close them down and hose them. Messing with this is unconstitutional. The DoJ is waiting for him to hand over a list to the RIAA, and then they are going to take his company away.
From my reading of the article, Microsoft sales demons were threatening companies with BSA visits if they didn't upgrade to XP. That means choice number 2 may as well not exist because suddenly it is burdened with more costs than choice 1.
This move will effectively cement Windows 95 as the standard client operating system for a large number of fortune 1000 companies. A classic case of VHS vs. Betamax.
Amazing magic tricks
If you're really serious about helping Habitat For Humanity, find the local affiliate closest to you, and call them to offer your help in migrating away from Windows. I'd bet that they need people who'd to come in and do the work, not just talk about it...
Internet Explorer was unable to link to the Web page you requested. The page might use standard HTML or CSS.
Isn't that license for the OS? Does the Media Player have the same license?
I do not see any clause in the EULA that they are not responsible for the damage done to my network bandwith and system, since I did not accept the EULA (some clueless Idiot accepted it whe he installed IIS, but wasnt me, and I did not make nimda).
Shouldnt we all be suing Gate's ass for his badly manufactured insecure product causing harm to my business
Did anyone else notice that his salary began with 666? Is that an omen or what?
bug.gd: error search engine. Humanity working together to solve all errors.
Smell like "The End".
:)
Doesn't smell good!
Well, MS always had a bad smell. Not sure if it's Bill $ocks.
Anyway, market will see how billions can disappear and how good fight evil.
Sorry MS, it smell like the end of your suckess.
Cheers!
God bless Apple!
You know I constantly see how Linux isn't a "viable" alternative, but no one can tell me why.
.doc files.
Most people in businesses use a PC to do very few things:
Read
Write documents.
Read/write email.
Browse the net.
Play music.
Fiddle with a spreadsheet program.
Maybe create a presentation.
Work with some accounting software.
Interface with a database or mainframe.
Etc.
Linux does all of the above just fine.
The only thing Linux doesn't do well is play games and you shouldn't be playing games at work anyway.
Been using Linux at work as a desktop OS for over 3 years. Most business would find they really can switch to Linux on the desktop once they take a good look at the apps they use to run their businesses.
Then once they factor in the costs, the increased stability and security, and the knowledge that no one can ever take Abiword, GnuCash, Gnumeric, etc away from them(they will always be free), Linux suddenly becomes a lot more attractive.
If you can't make Linux work on the desktop what hope do you have of having charities and non-profits use it?
Most of these people can't train their current employees, let alone train future ones. I've volunteered at a non-profit for 4 years doing their web site. Another volunteer hosts the web site on a Linux box, and is a big proponent of using Open Source software. I'm all for it, but nobody has the time or money to learn a new word processor, let alone a new OS and different programs that can't be learned in 5 minutes or through clicking buttons.
I've wanted to enable the organization to be able to update the web site themselves. Telling them they'll need to learn HTML, FTP, (possibly) database maintenence etc is just asking too much. They need something similar to Manila (which of course is not what the Open Source guy wants) - so easy to use you just type away.
I think your best bet is to VOLUNTEER to set up and maintain Linux and other free software solutions. Setting up the boxes and walking away is not a practical solution for most chaities and non-profits.
$600 over the course of 3 years isn't much at all, when compared to a minimum wage salary.
Try $300 or so, which is the real difference. They're already paying $300 anyhow, so though the full cost of the upgrade is $651, the incremental additional cost is only $316 (651-335, if I did the mental math right).
Most commercial programs already do this (with a shell script). The problem comes when you try to use a binary rpm on a system that is different from the one it's designed for. Source rpm's rarely have any problem. Neither do statically linked files.
I think I've also run into an executable that unpacked itself into a directory, and then ran a shell script to install itself. I can't remember whether or not I decided to trust it, so if I did it worked out ok.
Of course, a lot of times somebody makes a stupid assumption about what libraries are available, but do you really think that the equivalent never happens under windows? It's a bit less common, as commercial entities try to test their products, DOS routines tend to be single files, *.jar files are know by everybody to require the jre to be installed, etc. But it happens when you run a non-dos program from a hobbyist that doesn't have some automatic packaging utility installed. You may not notice it if you are running a compatible system. Or he may change the dlls on you, and some totally different program will stop working. It may be months before you notice, and when you do, how do you tell what the problem is?
I think a nice shell script around apt-get would be nice. Or some development of Red-Carpet that doesn't replace the logon files. (Well, more accurately, that doesn't allow a updating program to replace the logon files.) Or some development of Mandrake Updater. Or of Red Hat Up2date. Apt-get may be a better base, but others have been working in the same general area.
For that matter, even Corel Linux had a nice shell to wrap around apt-get. And that's most of what it takes to make it user friendly. That and a better classification scheme, so you can find what routine you need to start with.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
What really needs to happen, is companies need to start thining diffrently.
"A company with 5,000 desktops will see its 3-year upgrade cost for Microsoft Office, for instance, jump from about $900,000 to $1.5 million, it says."
For 1.5million over 3 years this same company could hire 5 developers to hack on one of the Open Source Office suites.
Think of the advantages, not only would there be no future upgrade costs, but they would get a custom piece of software that exactly fits their needs.
I'd love to never deal with Windows ever again. I don't have that option as long as lots of *other* people keep using it, unless I want to shut myself off from the outside world and never work with others.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
thats copy and pasted from the media palyer setup... i am on 95..its not the same licence as i have for that ...
Cruise TT
With the deprecation or removal of an API, they can put people out of business, or send companies into bankruptcy.
MSFT has already done that sort of thing already, at least with 3D rendering APIs, and of course, to Netscape.
Industry analysts acknowledge this sort of thing. Go here, and look for the Dan Kuznetsky quote:
.The old Software Publishers Association knew about it. They issued a white paper on the topic. Read pages 12 to 15 of that document for an older view of the problem.
Indeed, so they pass that law to outlaw encryption that doesn't have a government backdoor written into it. You're running PGP with your email that you installed last year. Windows update automaticatically disables it. Cool.
Windows rocks, eh?
I downloaded MK8.1 and WOW! I'm finnaly outta Bills World! This is a great day. I highly recommend you all try out this new distro. http://www.mandrake.com
I've talked to mechanics (ones whom I felt were reputable), that said they thought Buicks were one of the very best made american cars... FWIW
I use the Zone Alarm personal firewall. Since streaming sucks, I've told Zone Alarm to not allow Media Player access to the network. No auto-updates for me.
"by the way, the license agreement for Windows Media Player now allows Microsoft to disable any software on your computer - you do read those license agreements, don't you?"
OK, I cry bullshit here. I just downloaded Windows Media Player for the express purpose of checking this claim out and I didn't find ANYTHING in any text in the entire installation that corroborates this statement.
If you're going to bitch about Microsoft, at least give references to things that actually exist so you don't come off looking like just as much of an ass as Microsoft.
Morons.
I've been warning friends and customers for a couple of years now to avoid getting caught in the Microsoft trap. I'm happy to say I've managed to save at least a couple of small businesses from this insanity.
I think that ultimately, the market will change somehow, and Microsoft will not be able to dominate the new market.
How would this happen? Microsoft buys up anybody with an idea that could threaten them. The ideas are then either assimilated or squashed. Failing this, they just copy the idea and give it away until the competition is dead.
> Wow. So they can automatically put stuff on your computer that will disable software they don't like
Yeah, it's called "Windows".
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
"addictees"?
"addicts", surely?
[sorry for excessive pedantry, I'm trying to replicate a formkeys bug.]
Microsoft has a near-monopoly on operating systems at this point in time, which means the demand for Windows is *extremely* inelastic. It makes perfect economic sense for microsoft to increase prices and bleed everyone to death, because they are still going to sell roughly the same number of copies and will end up having a huge increase in total revenue in the short run. If you are worried about this, take heart... free markets have a way of dealing with this sort of thing. In time the demand for windows will become more and more elastic as computer users find suplimentary products , and get sick of paying exhorbitant fees. This is almost identical to what happened with OPEC during the gas shortages. They managed to keep prices high in the short-run because they had a near monopoly on petrolium. Of course this did not last, people started finding alternatives (fuel-efficient cars, car-pooling, public transportation, decreasing commuting time, etc..) the same thing will happen to Microsoft in time. In a few years (im guessing about 2), Microsoft will be humbled in to playing fair when they see their market share decreasing at disturbingly fast levels; at that point they will be forced to play fair. The market will naturally develop alternatives to Windows once people get pissed off enough, Microsoft is not immune. -MattyD ..no witty sayings at the moment
Isn't it sad that such an insane license has to be attached not to some joe-blow media player by some stupid company, but instead the best media player available by a well known company?
What get's me is that Microsoft does not have to do these shady things, like bundling and such. They already have the best browser, media player, office suite, etc. They would probably be successful if they LET consumers pick them.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Well then, a challenge!
80% of the computing world could *switch* to Mac OS X then, run Office v 10, maintain compatibility with each other and the 10% that didn't switch, give Microsoft the well earned money for such an excellent product *and* break Microsoft's desktop monopoly!
GPL Deconstructed
That's one great reason to use Linux, or another Open Source OS.
Sure, you can do that. You'll be leaving behind a lot of media and content, though. Or do you know of a better media player (on ANY OS)?
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Every six months you'll get a worthless update in the mail. Your credit card will consequently be billed (six to eight months prior to shipping) for $199.98. If you do not want this month's selection, just return this card to our closed PO Box in Uruguay, by this time last month. You may return any product at any time for a full refund. (according to the EULA, software made of matter is non-returnable)
Shift happens. Fire it up.
Let Microsoft price itself out of business if they want to.
Frankly, as a personal user of Windows, I can care less whether or not corporate users get sweetheart deals by buying in bulk. Hell, maybe if they paid the same price for Windows XX that I did each upgrade, then maybe the price for everyone else would be less. (then again, maybe not)
Sure Habitat for Humanity could take it in the shorts, but under the new pricing scheme (yeah, it's a scheme) they STILL will pay less than I do.
Here's an idea: Maybe I should incorporate in order to get a better deal out of M$...
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
here's an excerpt from the page:
Launch Period Extended
In response to customer requests, the Launch Period for the introduction of Microsoft's new Licensing 6.0 programs and Software Assurance, along with the availability of Upgrade Advantage, have been extended to February 28, 2002. Details include:
Open License 5.0 & 6.0 customers can enroll their non-current licenses in Software Assurance by purchasing the existing Upgrade Advantage (UA) offering before March 1, 2002.
Open License customers can obtain up to 2 years of UA coverage for that license when purchased under a new Open License authorization number.
Select License 5.0 customers can enroll their non-current licenses in Software Assurance by purchasing the existing Upgrade Advantage (UA) offering before March 1, 2002.
Select License customers can obtain up to 2 years of UA coverage for that license by signing a new Select License 5.0 agreement before October 1, 2001.
Open License and Select License customers will be able to enroll their installed base of current licenses, including Windows 2000 Professional, Office XP suites, the Windows 2000 Server family, and the .NET Enterprise Servers, through Software Assurance between October 1, 2001, and February 28, 2002.
Software Assurance and License & Software Assurance (L&SA) will be available beginning October 1, 2001 through the Open License and Select License programs, replacing the Version Upgrade (VUP), Product Upgrade (PUP), Competitive Upgrade (CUP), and Language Upgrade (LUP) license types.
Enterprise Agreement 6.0 and EA 6.0 Subscription for customers with at least 250 PCs will also be available starting October 1, 2001, and will automatically include the benefits of Software Assurance.
l ectLicense!!!!
EnterpriseAgreementSoftwareAssuranceOpenLicenseSe
Wow! I'm glade i'm not in charge of understanding this dribble!
-Jon
this is my sig.
Until the DMCA was passed.
.NET as a whole... The courts have ruled before and they're rule again. If you're going to offer something for "lease" you have to be willing to "sell" it too. Allowing "lease" only is exactly the sort of thing that got IBM into trouble in their heyday.
If left unchecked, Open source is set to fatally dismount Microsoft in the next few years. They've already done it in much of the server space, of course Microsoft isn't the fiercest competition there. The desktop is not as far off as you think. In fact, applications aren't the problem. Games aside, I can't think of a single useful application not available on Linux. Hardware support and drivers are the real battle field.
It's new laws like the DMCA, UCITA, and SSSCA that will outlaw reverse engineering and eventually Open Source. These are the real threat. Without the DMCA, everyone wanting to run the newest Windows would be running paid for but cracked versions of WinXP anyways, so the "lease" agreement would have no teeth.
As for
"This will open a Pandora's box," he said, promoting the idea of "elaborate rights." These, he said, could move the concept of buy-once rights to time-based rights -- "you can make it so the user can, say, only read this book on Tuesday"
Well, I'm not OK with that, because I have to pick up my daughter from ballet on Tuesday, OK? So Tuesday's not a good reading day for me.
If Microsoft can't let me read on the weekend, I'm just going to have to shop around.
Microsoft says the changes will make upgrading more simple and that they were made at the request of customers. It claims only 20% of customers will see price increases, 50% will pay the same and 30% will save money. Companies who upgrade a lot will save the most, it says.
The local phone company says the changes will make calling plans more simple and that they were made at the request of customers. It claims only 20% of customers will see price increases, 50% will pay the same and 30% will save money. Companies who call a lot will save the most, it says.
(Historical context: when phone companies originally had started talking about switching customers to a per-call rate from the long-standing block rate.)
It does pay to be effectively the only game around -- it pays the companies.
Go cell phones! Go linux!
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
Yes, Webster!, addicts. :)
Thanks.
(Or maybe I meant "slaves". Ohh! Or "bitches"!)
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
Netscape died because it sucked.
Found this link in a ZDNet TalkBack forum, of all places. A down-and-dirty expose of the real truths (they claim) behind the entire Microsoft history. Includes a long list of everyone who's sued M$, etc. Very enlightening...
Just run ZoneAlarm and don't allow network access to Media Player. Problem Solved.
Something like "... with the exception of the development of a Windows-compatible version of this software or any of its components, use this software is free... "
See there... You all should have gone with LINUX... then you wouldn't have these problems... I don't want to hear the old story about... "Linux doesn't have an office package... or one that will work with MS Office etc... Cause for that kinda money... HAVE SOMEONE WRITE YOU ONE!
Anyone that doubts Microsoft's coding abilities should check out this book.
*hint of sarcasm*
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
no, netscape died because they couldn't afford to give it away.
It's clearly the responsibility of the govt to ensure a healthy marketplace. One way it can do this is with breaking up monopolies when they become abusive.
As for your whack-a-mole analogy it makes no sense. It's inevitable that in a free market economy one company will win. It will dominate and crush all other companies and form a monopoly which will then turn around squeeze the customers who have no choice. This is a natural byproduct of any free enterprise environment. If the govt does not whack that mole the mole will harm the consumer.
To claim that you should not quash monopolies because other ones will re-appear is to claim that you should not put out fires because other beuildings will burn too. Or that you should not arrest criminals because more criminals will pop up.
Everything has consequences. Fixing things have consequences just as not fixing them has consequences. I am sure you are not advocating sitting on your ass and not doing anything because what you do might have unintended consequences are you?
War is necrophilia.
the 'next big thing' would be wonderful, however, we don't even have a a 'next big thing' re: IBM, let alone MS.
i don't know how close or far we are from the home computer and business computer markets drastically changing (visa vie the automobile industry), but i agree that it must come along at some point.
but MS is a horrible, anti-competitive juggernaut which must be dealt with. you shoot a rabid dog, you put a destructive child through therapy and maybe medication. the choice here is, dog or child?
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
They will stop you like they stop all their other competitors.
1) They make their customers agree to not buy anything from you. If their customers buy anything from you they lose the ability to buy MS products.
2) They get patents on stuff you make and sue you thereby bankrupting you.
3) They make whatever you make and give it away for free, not only that but they make everybody who has any MS product take that product as well.
4) They file frivolous suits against you and bankrupt you.
5) They lobby legislature to make what you are doing illegal.
6) They simply kill you (via third parties of course). If none of the above work I am sure you could die in an unfortunate accident of some sort.
War is necrophilia.
boxen oxen boxen oxen boxen oxen boxen oxen boxen oxen... starting to sound a little silly?
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
Move along now.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
You just wait... if their
One day soon after we all get comfortable with this, one malicious little cracker is going to get in the whole F'n system and wipe out all of the useful files in EVERY M$ corporate and Gov't site in the ENTIRE WORLD. This is going to make Code Red look like the Cookie Monster Virus. THIS IS WORLD CLASS IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR, even by Mr. Bill's standards. When the
I personally have the sense to know that if by computer someone could tamper with you, then by human nature alone, they are. Besides, the whole idea of handing over your personal power that you are liable for by some technicality smacks of personal suicide. I will never let something that is a box that is acting for me without my knowledge ever enter my life... EVER. You should stop your friends now.
Next stop, Microsoft birth certificate registration, burned via barcode under your left eye for permanent idenitification.
Linux isn't the only OS that is a candidate for an alternative to windows. Linux will always be hard to use because there are over 180 distros that arent even compatible! What we really need is FreeBSD or Mac OS X.
Anyone here seen 'The Insider'?
Pretty soon M$ will be like Big Tobacco (was) - no matter who you are, if you try to take them to court, they will simply "spend you to death".
Maybe it's already like that... Not even the US Government could tell them what to do.
I cant see any IT department upgrading from windows 2k to windows XP. The differences between office 2k and xp are so small and not worth the 110% increase to upgrade if no one in your company will be using these extra "features". And from my PERSONAL view windows XP isnt even a business related OS, how many companys really need built in multi media software for their corporate infrastructure?
I cant belive from the talks going on that this many people are really going to be upgrading to this new OS.
Ok, so the file format is closed.
In the next version of EULA, I disagree and I wish to stop using this program.
But the data encoded with the closed file format (my data), is lost forever!
Which comes to the conclusion: Closed file formats should not exist without a converter program that can convert the data therein, to another file format with the same quality. And because the file format is closed, only Microsoft can provide those programs.
So *my work* is locked. See the catch.
In the ZDNet article:
along comes a new one that substantially outperforms what went before
What the hell has he been smoking? I want some!
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
Female Prison Rape in NY
Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way. The "saying something is wrong is wrong" argument cannot even be taken seriously because it disappears up its own ass in a puff of contradiction.
Female Prison Rape in NY
old way;
give a way os/software w/'puter, sell upgrade for $49.95, crash 'puter & corrupt files reload os/software+each update repeat until digusted then buy full version for $249.95!
new way;
- use passport on the web for ID,
- use Hailstorm for rights management of content,
- use reader to get EULA rights to disable any software on users 'puter,
- push idea of software as service,
- use Hailstorm/.NET to regulale rights to software,
now everyone has to rent software result constantrevenue stream, automaticaly deducted from your credit card/checking account. It's slowly getting to the point where MS software won't work unless your connected to the net, a lot of features are gone without a net connection in place. Soon MS won't work period without being connected;
I read infrastucture a internet connection to microsoft, the computer is the net after all. how else are you going to start the clock running? This way they will have a constant way of checking for valid licenses all ready they are bullying business users into purchasing MS licenses rather than using existing OEM licenses, performing "software license audits' on premises ect. (what happens when the liceince for a product for which you have a competative upgrad for expires?) OEM licienses are a dead end for them, why should a home user upgrade machines when they are so powerfull that they are basicaly a one-time purchase now? No go after businesses with licienses and use rights management to identify targets. Just like drugs, the price goes up after you are addicted.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
last year she was afraid to even touch a computer.
There really isn't a lot of admisitering that has to be done more than once tha's any harder the in Widows. More and more hardware just jumps in, even stuf I couldn't get running in winows 95A.
In short unless your trying to do something exotic, Linux is just a little different, and a lot of times a lot easier. Ther's no reason to be afraid of being a newby anymore. The ability to realy destroy a Linux machine is alot harder to come by than the ability to destroy a windows machine.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I've said it once before, and I'll say it again. Linux is not the "Alternative". When monopoly's such as Microsoft decide to be non-standard with themselves, they loose their classification as standard. I say that Linux is the standard because it is so consistent, and because about everyone wants to migrate to Linux, not to Microsoft.
Fact is Linux won't get popular until more people think of it as standard instead of "weird" or "new"... (words managers tend to hate). So call it the standard like it is.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
So... go buy a G4/G5 w/ OSX dudes.
Once the G5 is released and kicks ass, and OSX 10.2 is done, WIndows is out the door.
You are absolutely on the money. But don't stop at the OS or desktop. Linux needs an excellent office suite. Not just good,... excellent. Can it be done?
You misinterpreted. I don't think that taxes work at all.
There are two ways to ensure a fair market place. Laws, and enforcement of those laws. You can't have a marketplace without laws. Such is a brute force, anarchist atmosphere that would certainly lead to a monopoly almost always.
To think that a completely free market would function with no regulation is ludicrous. That never has worked, and it never will work. One company will rise above ther rest and crush the others.
The government regulates and oversees the free market to ensure fairness and competition in the marketplace. This is why we have anti-trust laws on the books. These are the regulations which ensure fairness in the marketplace.
My greatest concern, as is evident by this DOJ trial is that Microsoft is not only capable of single-handedly usurping the entire free market, but also capable of overpowering government regulators by applying corporate pressure, paying off lawmakers, or undermining consumer confidence.
Microsoft has a control that I feel is unparalled on any scale to anything since Standard Oil.
It really is truly scaring the hell out of me.
This morning, I realized why Microsoft has been acting this way: They are preparing themselves to neogiate the consent decree. They are acting as outrageously as possible to encourage the Government to act quickly and to give themselves more room to maneuver.
.net, and our new licensing scheme" and they still won't have given up a single thing they need to monopolize any other market they want.
You've heard the expression "give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile". Microsoft has already taken a mile because they know that even if they're pushed half the way back, its unlikely they'll get pushed back as far as if they simply continued to act like a responsible corporate citizen. At this point, they can say, "OK. We'll take back bundling MSN, messenger, WMA,
IT is supposed to support the company's technology needs for achieving the usual goal of making money, right? Although not experienced, I tend to think the job of IT is to support the *users* so they can do their jobs most effectively. Obviously, there are quite a few exceptions and restrictions. If we did whatever our users wanted (I lost my screen floating sheep screen saver, can you send someone to reinstall it for me?), it would get rediculous. On the other hand, if a department finds use in PowerPoint and can justify the cost, who are we to say they can't use it? Again, there are restrictions. Some applications simply don't play nice with existing software, but the point of view that "we tell users what they should be using" just doesn't fly. I think it more appropriate to say "we recommend to the company or individual departments what they should use and support their needs to the best of our abilities."
Actually, Netscape died because nobody bought their "enterprise servers" -- Blame freebies like IIS and Apache -- the browser wasn't supposed to be a revenue stream, only free advertising.
Absolutely. I'm a Windows developer who has been in the process of switching religions for the last six months. My biggest beef with the OSS world is the incredibly poor documentation. Sometimes I get the impression that no one in the OSS world knows how to properly document software.
If you want an example of how to do things right, look at MSDN and learn from them. The biggest problem is the lack of sample code and commands.
Don't tell me in general terms "to do this, you have to do this, this, and this". Provide sample code so I can see exactly what you mean. If I can't just cut and paste the command and do some minor editing for my specific circumstance, you're not finished documenting, friends.
And don't give me any horseshit arguments about how you're so elite you don't need sample code. It's not about dick measuring, it's about wasting time. Maybe your time isn't valuable to you, but mine is, and I don't need to spend half an hour fucking around with various permutations of syntax just because you couldn't spend one minute to add a line of a sample code to your document.
It more like the other way around, trading mules for automobiles. The limits closed source propriatory software place on modification and interoperability make M$ junk difficult to use and expire without offspring.
Everyday, I run into yet another roadblock trying to work with this trash. Today's massive pain is a scheduling program that is not reflected in people's calenders! GRRRR! Massive amounts of work are wasted as each and every member of this company has to manually update their calenders while work schedules change. In a free world, the programs would have been modified to talk to each other. Other pains of NT include drivers that MS refuses to port back, an crippled single screen GUI, inconsistent interface, and complete lack of privacy and security.
The damb is broken, and MS can't do a thing about it. They've had ten years to make things work and failed. Their greed has frustrated users, vendors and developers. Viable and free alternatives are available, it's only a matter of time before the tricle becomes a flood and MS is forced to compete.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
It you think that's frustrating, just try getting a USB device to work under NT. Or try making Outlook interoperate with anything custom and in house. Or try to maintian VB junk. Or, you get the picture. When you don't have source the problem has no solution.
You have exadurated Debian problems. I have yet to have any of the kind you refer to, and I've never run into a problem that could not be fixed.
GNORPM is pretty close to point and click. Web find still works great. Debian's dselect seems to work better, however.
It's only going to get better. The more the merrier! I'm looking forward to great patches contributed by "The Cat".
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Hmmm... what if you dual-boot Linux on the same machine and MS decides that you need to be prevented from booting Linux because of potential access to Secure Content?
Installing for Windows is a nightmare compared to apt.
With apt you just tell it to install a given package. If it has been included in the apt pool then it downloads it and away it goes. Should it need new libraries it'll get them as well.
If you knew as much about apt as you claim, then you'd know all this.
Do you have good ideas about what the interface should look like? Well then get in touch with the apt development team and get working. Help, don't complain and wish.
Fortunately I haven't had DLL hell on Windows, yet. But then most of the software I use doesn't require IE's DLLs. ("Not part of the OS", my big toe!)
So you're willing to get spied upon just so your media use will be more convienient?
I couldn't have summed it up better myself. Although I don't know if #6 has actually been verified to have occurred :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
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Notwithstanding the warranty and limitation of liability provided in the EULA, the following shall apply to the Operating System Components:
NO WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL OTHER WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT, WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT, AND THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES. THIS LIMITED WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS. YOU MAY HAVE OTHERS, WHICH VARY FROM STATE/JURISDICTION TO STATE/JURISDICTION. THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT REMAINS WITH YOU.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT OR THE FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES, EVEN IF MICROSOFT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. IN ANY CASE, MICROSOFT'S ENTIRE LIABILITY UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT OR U.S.$5.00; PROVIDED, HOWEVER, IF YOU HAVE ENTERED INTO A MICROSOFT SUPPORT SERVICES AGREEMENT, MICROSOFT'S ENTIRE LIABILITY REGARDING SUPPORT SERVICES SHALL BE GOVERNED BY THE TERMS OF THAT AGREEMENT. BECAUSE SOME STATES/JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.
SUPPLEMENTAL END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE ("Supplemental EULA")
IMPORTANT: READ CAREFULLY - These Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") operating system components, including any "online" or electronic documentation ("OS Components") are subject to the terms and conditions of the agreement under which you have licensed the applicable Microsoft operating system product described below (each an "End User License Agreement" or "EULA") and the terms and conditions of this Supplemental EULA. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THE OS COMPONENTS, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE APPLICABLE OPERATING SYSTEM PRODUCT EULA AND THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE OS COMPONENTS.
NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF ANY VERSION OR EDITION OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, MICROSOFT WINDOWS MILLENUM EDITION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000 OPERATING SYSTEM OR ANY MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THOSE OPERATING SYSTEMS (EACH AN "OS PRODUCT"), YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.
Capitalized terms used in this Supplemental EULA and not otherwise defined herein shall have the meanings assigned to them in the applicable OS Product EULA.
General. The OS Components are provided to you by Microsoft to update, supplement, or replace existing functionality of the applicable OS Product. Microsoft grants you a license to use the OS Components under the terms and conditions of the EULA for the applicable OS Product (which are hereby incorporated by reference, except as set forth below) and the terms and conditions set forth in this Supplemental EULA, provided that you comply with all such terms and conditions. To the extent that any terms in this Supplemental EULA conflict with terms in the applicable OS Product EULA, the terms of this Supplemental EULA control solely with respect to the OS Components.
Additional Rights and Limitations.
* Reproduction. If you have multiple validly licensed copies of the applicable OS Product, you may reproduce, install and use one copy of the OS Components as part of such OS Product on all of your computers running validly licensed copies of the applicable OS Product provided that you use such additional copies of the OS Components in accordance with the terms and conditions above. For each validly licensed copy of the applicable OS Product, you also may reproduce one additional copy of the OS Components solely for archival purposes or reinstallation of the OS Components on the same computer as the OS Components were previously installed. Microsoft retains all right, title and interest in and to the OS Components. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Microsoft.
* Digital Rights Management (Security). You agree that in order to protect the integrity of content and software protected by digital rights management ("Secure Content"), Microsoft may provide security related updates to the OS Components that will be automatically downloaded onto your computer. These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer. If we provide such a security update, we will use reasonable efforts to post notices on a web site explaining the update.
IF THE APPLICABLE OS PRODUCT WAS LICENSED TO YOU BY MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARIES, THE LIMITED WARRANTY (IF ANY) INCLUDED IN THE OS PRODUCT EULA APPLIES TO THE OS COMPONENTS PROVIDED THE OS COMPONENTS HAVE BEEN LICENSED BY YOU WITHIN THE TERM OF THE LIMITED WARRANTY IN THE OS PRODUCT EULA. HOWEVER, THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA DOES NOT EXTEND THE TIME PERIOD FOR WHICH THE LIMITED WARRANTY IS PROVIDED.
IF THE APPLICABLE OS PRODUCT WAS LICENSED TO YOU BY AN ENTITY OTHER THAN MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARIES, MICROSOFT DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH RESPECT TO THE OS COMPONENTS AS FOLLOWS:
DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS PROVIDE TO YOU THE OS COMPONENTS, AND ANY (IF ANY) SUPPORT SERVICES RELATED TO THE OS COMPONENTS ("SUPPORT SERVICES") AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS; AND MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS HEREBY DISCLAIM WITH RESPECT TO THE OS COMPONENTS AND SUPPORT SERVICES ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS, WHETHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY (IF ANY) WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF OR RELATED TO: MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, LACK OF VIRUSES, ACCURACY OR COMPLETENESS OF RESPONSES, RESULTS, WORKMANLIKE EFFORT AND LACK OF NEGLIGENCE. ALSO THERE IS NO WARRANTY, DUTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NONINFRINGEMENT. THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE OS COMPONENTS AND ANY SUPPORT SERVICES REMAINS WITH YOU.
EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR: LOSS OF PROFITS, LOSS OF CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, PERSONAL INJURY, LOSS OF PRIVACY, FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY (INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH OR OF REASONABLE CARE), NEGLIGENCE, AND ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE OS COMPONENTS OR THE SUPPORT SERVICES, OR THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA, EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY DAMAGES THAT YOU MIGHT INCUR FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ALL DAMAGES REFERENCED ABOVE AND ALL DIRECT OR GENERAL DAMAGES), THE ENTIRE LIABILITY OF MICROSOFT AND ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ALL OF THE FOREGOING SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE OS COMPONENTS OR U.S.$5.00. THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE.
Si vous avez acquis votre produit Microsoft au CANADA, le texte suivant vous concerne :
SI LE PRODUIT OS APPLICABLE VOUS A ÉTÉ CONCÉDÉ SOUS LICENCE PAR MICROSOFT OU PAR L'UNE QUELCONQUE DE SES FILIALES À 100%, LA GARANTIE LIMITÉE (SI ELLE EXISTE) APPLICABLE EN VERTU DU CONTRAT DE LICENCE UTILISATEUR FINAL (" CLUF ") RELATIF À CE PRODUIT OS S'APPLIQUE AUX COMPOSANTS SYSTÈME D'EXPLOITATION DE MICROSOFT Y COMPRIS TOUTE DOCUMENTATION " EN LIGNE " OU SOUS FORME ÉLECTRONIQUE (LES " COMPOSANTS OS "), À CONDITION QUE CEUX-CI VOUS AIENT ÉTÉ CONCÉDÉS SOUS LICENCE PENDANT LA DURÉE DE LA GARANTIE LIMITÉE DU CLUF RELATIF AU PRODUIT OS APPLICABLE. LE PRÉSENT CLUF SUPPLÉMENTAIRE N'A PAS POUR EFFET DE PROROGER LA DURÉE DE CETTE GARANTIE LIMITÉE.
SI LE PRODUIT OS VOUS A ÉTÉ CONCÉDÉ SOUS LICENCE PAR UNE ENTITÉ AUTRE QUE MICROSOFT OU QUE L'UNE QUELCONQUE DE SES FILIALES À 100%, MICROSOFT EXCLUT TOUTE GARANTIE RELATIVE AUX COMPOSANTS OS COMME CELA EST STIPULÉ CI-APRÈS :
EXCLUSION DE GARANTIE. DANS TOUTE LA MESURE PERMISE PAR LE DROIT APPLICABLE, MICROSOFT ET SES FOURNISSEURS VOUS FOURNISSENT LES COMPOSANTS OS, AINSI QUE, LE CAS ÉCHÉANT, TOUT SERVICE D'ASSISTANCE RELATIF À CES COMPOSANTS OS (LES "SERVICES D'ASSISTANCE"), " COMME TELS ET AVEC TOUS LEURS DEFAUTS ". EN OUTRE, MICROSOFT ET SES FOURNISSEURS EXCLUENT PAR LES PRÉSENTES TOUTE AUTRE GARANTIE LÉGALE, EXPRESSE OU IMPLICITE, RELATIVE AUX COMPOSANTS OS ET AUX SERVICES D'ASSISTANCE, NOTAMMENT (LE CAS ÉCHÉANT), TOUTE GARANTIE: DE QUALITÉ, D'ADAPTATION À UN USAGE PARTICULIER, D'ABSENCE DE VIRUS, DE PRÉCISION, D'EXHAUSTIVITÉ DES RÉPONSES, DES RÉSULTATS OBTENUS, DE FABRICATION Y D'ABSENCE DE NÉGLIGENCE. EN OUTRE, IL N'Y A PAS DE GARANTIE DE PROPRIÉTÉ, DE JOUISSANCE PAISIBLE, D'ABSENCE DE TROUBLE DE POSSESSION, DE CONFORMITÉ À LA DESCRIPTION OU D'ABSENCE DE CONTREFAÇON. VOUS ASSUMEZ L'ENSEMBLE DES RISQUES DÉCOULANT DE L'UTILISATION OU DU FONCTIONNEMENT DES COMPOSANTS OS ET DES SERVICES D'ASSISTANCE.
EXCLUSION DE RESPONSABILITÉ POUR LES DOMMAGES ACCESSOIRES, INDIRECTS ET CERTAINS AUTRES TYPES DE DOMMAGES. DANS TOUTE LA MESURE PERMISE PAR LE DROIT APPLICABLE, MICROSOFT OU SES FOURNISSEURS NE POURRONT EN AUCUN CAS ÊTRE TENUS RESPONSABLES DE TOUT DOMMAGE SPÉCIAL, ACCESSOIRE, INCIDENT OU INDIRECT DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT (Y COMPRIS, MAIS NON DE FACON LIMITATIVE, LES PERTES DE BÉNÉFICES, PERTES D'INFORMATIONS CONFIDENTIELLES OU AUTRES INFORMATIONS, INTERRUPTIONS D'ACTIVITÉ, PRÉJUDICES CORPORELS, ATTEINTES À LA VIE PRIVÉE, MANQUEMENT À TOUTE OBLIGATION (NOTAMMENT L'OBLIGATION DE BONNE FOI ET DE DILIGENCE), NÉGLIGENCE, ET POUR TOUTE PERTE PÉCUNIAIRE OU AUTRE DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT), RÉSULTANT DE, OU RELATIFS A, L'UTILISATION OU L'IMPOSSIBILITÉ D'UTILISER LES COMPOSANTS OS OU LES SERVICES D'ASSISTANCE, OU LA FOURNITURE OU LE DÉFAUT DE FOURNITURE DES SERVICES D'ASSISTANCE, OU AUTREMENT EN VERTU DE, OU RELATIVEMENT A, TOUTE DISPOSITION DE CE CLUF SUPPLÉMENTAIRE, MÊME SI LA SOCIÉTÉ MICROSOFT OU UN QUELCONQUE FOURNISSEUR A ÉTÉ PRÉVENU DE L'ÉVENTUALITÉ DE TELS DOMMAGES.
LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÉ ET RECOURS. NONOBSTANT TOUT DOMMAGE QUE VOUS POURRIEZ SUBIR POUR QUELQUE MOTIF QUE CE SOIT (NOTAMMENT TOUS LES DOMMAGES ÉNUMÉRÉS CI-DESSUS ET TOUS LES DOMMAGES DIRECTS OU GÉNÉRAUX), L'ENTIÈRE RESPONSABILITÉ DE MICROSOFT ET DE L'UN QUELCONQUE DE SES FOURNISSEURS AU TITRE DE TOUTE STIPULATION DE CE CLUF SUPPLÉMENTAIRE ET VOTRE SEUL RECOURS EN CE QUI CONCERNE TOUS LES DOMMAGES PRÉCITÉS NE SAURAIENT EXCÉDER LE MONTANT QUE VOUS AVEZ EFFECTIVEMENT PAYÉ POUR LES COMPOSANTS OS OU 5 DOLLARS US (US$ 5,00), SELON LE PLUS ÉLEVÉ DES DEUX MONTANTS. LES PRÉSENTES LIMITATIONS ET EXCLUSIONS DEMEURERONT APPLICABLES DANS TOUTE LA MESURE PERMISE PAR LE DROIT APPLICABLE QUAND BIEN MÊME UN QUELCONQUE REMÈDE À UN QUELCONQUE MANQUEMENT NE PRODUIRAIT PAS D'EFFET.
La présente Convention est régie par les lois de la province d'Ontario, Canada. Chacune des parties à la présente reconnaît irrévocablement la compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent à instituer tout litige qui pourrait découler de la présente auprès des tribunaux situés dans le district judiciaire de York, province d'Ontario.
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