While I am in favor of "early adopter" people buying digital cameras because it's good for the economy, a digital camera cost more to operate over the long run, if you make even a few paper prints.
I paid 2.63 to develop and print 24exp of 35mm at Sams Club. 12 rolls of 24exp 35mm film (fuji) cost about $4 after the $8 fuji rebate.
So I pay, what, 18c a picture, printed 4"x6"
A sheet of high quality paper for an inkjet costs about a dollar. How much is the ink to print it - 25c? And the cost of the inkjet printer itself?
Then add the cost of losing or damaging (sitting on) one of the tiny memory sticks. Then there is the cost of batteries for the digital camera.. It uses a lot more than a manual SLR. The batteries are rechargable, you say.. Ok, how many people have rechargable stuff that won't hold a charge anymore? (no pushing now, you'll all get counted;^) and getting new ones isn't cheap.
And the kicker.. You need a computer to even see the pictures you took last month. What? your system ate itself and you had no backup? Yes, I know you meant to burn them to CD but never had time since the baby came. And your baby pictures are now gone forever? Bummer!
Since the usual rules of military manufacture did not apply, like for example
.
No off-the shelf parts
Enclosure machined from a solid block of 7075 Aluminium instead of a premade sheetmetal box for $12.
Bobbin cores for magnetics are machined out of rod stock in one piece.
Etc.
All I can think of is the cost of the truck is included, or they included the costs of the trial versions before they hit upon the best combination. The generator might be expensive in france, too... Here in the usa, gensets are cheap used, as people are de-Y2-kay-ing themselves. I would think a tesla coil with an antenna on it, for example, whould jam everything for cheap, but maybe it's so obvious you could not hide it for long..
You can get realtime (not delayed) streaming stock quotes for free from DATEK. It's kind of cool to see the stocks move around during the day. The javascript pops up another window that shows the bid, ask, last, etc price, and you can just leave it running, it keeps updating the prices.
Sorry this is so long, but a full discussion fills many books...
removing the intake valve entirely
You might want to take another look. Unless your engine is a 2 stroke (and it isn't) you need an intake valve to get fresh combustion air into the cylinder.
Now, there is a whole line of 2 cycle diesel engine (the GM Detroit Diesel series 71 V) which has an inlet port for fresh air at the base of the cylinder wall, and 4 exhaust valves in the head. This engine uses a roots type supercharger to pressurize the air in the intake manifold. There are 6, 8, 12, and 16 cylinder versions. I think there is a 3 cyl version for city buses.
Perhaps you mean that there is no throttle body valve (or no throttle body) but this is true on all diesel engines.
The better overall fuel-air ratio is what makes it more efficient.
The much higher compression ratio, lower parasitic pumping losses, and higher thermodynamic efficiency make the diesel more efficient. The air intake of a diesel engine is uncontrolled (thus the lower parasitic pumping loss), and the fuel/air ratio is uncontrolled. The absolute amount of fuel (not the ratio) injected (at very high pressure directly into the cylinder, thru the injector in the cylinder head) at the top of the compression stroke determines the power output of that stroke. The very high compression ratio of the engine, and the self-ignition properties of diesel fuel (low octane number, i.e. high cetane number) causes the fuel to ignite as it is injected.
The use of a turbocharger is a great bonus for fuel efficiency, because it uses waste heat energy from the exhaust gas stream to reduce intake pumping losses even further, or even make the losses negative (i.e., helps push the engine forward on the intake stroke, if the intake manifold pressure is high enough) Of course, in a gasoline engine high compression and high intake manifold pressures lead to knock problems, but this isn't an issue for a diesel.
the fuel wouldn't ignite if it was evenly distributed
That's true if you were trying to ignite gasoline vapor with a spark, but diesel fuel self-ignites (detonates) due to the high pressure/temperature in the cylinder at the top of the compression stroke. The glo plugs (they are not spark plugs) contain small electric heaters to help preheat the cylinder when the engine is cold so that starting is easier. The glo plugs are not in use when the engine is running.
A detailed book you might find interesting is
The internal combustion engine in theory and practice- by Charles Fayette Taylor, MIT press. isbn 0262700166
I have never seen a more polite, considerate, and carefull bunch of people than the ones at a gun show.
No, I'm not kidding here.. everone will say "excuse me" if they bump into you, no matter how slightly. People will say "excuse me" when they step in front of you. No one will crowd against you, or be rude in any way.
It's amazing.
Obligatory disclaimer: I'm gun neutral- don't own any, find them boring. And gun shows are REEEEAAALLY boring.. I mean, how can people walk past 300 tables which all have slightly different varients of the same thing on them without falling asleep? (not a flame-- I really want to know!)
I have read several of your replies now, and I find it interesting that you are satisfied with giving up all your privacy rights without a fight (or even a whimper).
A persons right to privacy of communication was established long ago in two important areas:
US mail
Wiretapping and hidden recording law
In the US mail case, it is a crime to tamper with other peoples mail. It does not matter if the person used your employers pen, ink, stationary, and scotch tape to construct the letter. You are legally prohibited from tampering with it.
The second point is wiretapping. You may not record the conversations of other people over the telephone without their knowledge and consent. This is true even if you "own" the telephone equipment.
What we clearly need is for the spirit of these privacy laws to be brought up to date with current technological capabilities.
The current behavior by companies violates the spirit and intent of these longstanding laws.
People in Cuba "better off" than the rest of Latin America?
Is that why they are doing their damdest to get off that island on rafts?
If it's such a great place, why doesn't Castro let people leave? Why does his police force swamp the boats with people on board?
Baby AT Motherboards...
on
Intel Roadmap
·
· Score: 1
Asus p5ab. (with onboard sound)
or p5ab-woa (without onboard sound)
I got the soundless version at tccomputers.com, with K6-500.
Only has 2 isa slots though, but I never used the sound card anyway, so I just left it out.
I just can't bear to throw away those huge old gateway full tower cases, like gateway sold when the DX2-66 ruled the earth.
I've heard *rumors* of some issues regarding agp video on some Asus mb, but as I use PCI Millenium II ($79 from the matrox website, refurbished/closeout area) I've no personal data on that.
Keep in mind, though, that this progression seems perfectly reasonable to the members of the Cult of Self-Esteem who run the school systems.
It used to be that only a small percentage of students were violent fuck-ups, and they could be dealt with. Unfortunately, society decided that to was harmfull to discipline these students for spitting at the teacher, hitting other kids with bats, and setting cats on fire.
Parents of VFU's sued the school system, claiming that their precious little VFU was "disabled" and thus protected by the Americans with Disabilites act against *discrimination*! (read - expulsion from school for violent behavior)
The predictable result: More normal students were victims of these few violent fuck-ups, and when abused long enough by the VFU's, normal kids started to have issues of their own. With all the havoc going on, there is little time for actual education in math and physics.
Like someone once said to me: Tap you pet mouse on the head with a pencil long enough and it will go insane and bite you.
I replied: No, thanks, I'll take your word for it.
It takes no aptitude to make "attractive" web pages. All it takes is using MS-Hype-Vcurrent+1, load it up with cheap clipart, obscure with flash, make sure the fonts don't display right on Netscape, and you're there.
And yes, I did visit his web page, and the quotes he has chosen show a sharp mind, on par with New Yorker cartoons.
Now, I understand that some people consider pokemon and a Big Mac to be high art. And I'm not going to diss you for not liking his site.
I do suggest, however, that the point of his site is content.
Perhaps, with time, you will grow to appreciate what he has to say, and why he has said it.
Like cable tv, lawn service, giant SUVs and the delivery of bottled water to your home, cell phones are extremely expensive for the added utility they provide.
You want to do something with your money? Invest it, anywhere. 10 years from now, instead of using that cell phone for a doorstop, you'll have a tidy sum to spend on something of value-- like not HAVING to work.
Do the math, it will open your eyes.
If you feel you MUST have instant connectivity, get a pager or something, the smartbeep ones seem cheap.
several hundred users could use the system at once, and although the VMS system was command line driven, the terminals did support graphics, so you could display graphs, pictures, etc... VMS is a very powerfull and full-featured operating system, which resulted in some of the same "too hard to use" complaints you hear about Linux.
Vaxes were also commonly clustered, and from a user point of view would share load. There was no crashing (ok, maybe once a year, or when the operator tried to crash the system on purpose (ps- Dec fired his ass)), no rebooting, and the system was up and on 24/7.
If you demand a more gui environment, you could cluster vaxstations (small workstations) together with a mainframe over the network- the mainframe stored all user info/files, with the vaxstation providing processing power.
Security was reasonably well implemented, with users being protected from each other, as well as the system being protected from the users!
(un)fortunately, vax hardware was built to withstand the rigors of rocket launch. This turned out to be stupid for several reasons-
Most users did not launch their vaxes and so percieved no benefit from the over-design
Hardware was absurdly expensive to build.
Hardware was absurdly expensive to design and to test (get thru the DEC standard 102 tests)
In addition, VMS licensing fees were high, and DEC seemed to discourage 3ed party apps.
Everyone prefered cheap, cheap, cheap, and so the PC, with MS on it, crept from the primeval ooze to the position it occupies today.
We do not do much with government at the moment, like the Department of Energy or EPA directly. The DOE has quite a bit of money, but frankly, I've known too many small companies that have been too dependent on government contracts. They're not always reliable payers, and they're kind of a tar baby sometimes.
Can anyone explain the meaning of the term "tar baby" in this context? I cannot imagine a racist term was intended, what are the other meanings?
When a newbie sets up Junkbuster, they have to go to preferences- advanced - proxy - and choose local proxy. The default choice is "direct connection to the internet" which I think is pretty self-explanatory. So if someone WANTS *boggle* to go to a busted page, the way of doing it is fairly clear.. set the prefs the way they were before, "direct connection to the internet"
Junkbuster does not go in and mess with the browser settings itself, on the sly.
As a side note, who (seriously) would expect to get a honest answer on what the "fuss" is about from a site which secretly spys on web users, and when caught claims it's no big deal?
I might as well go to the NetNanny site, et. al. (think encrypted block lists) to find out about peacfire. Companies who behave in sneaky ways on the web are unlikely, IMHO, to be truthfull.
What I mean is, do you think the system in use now actually provides value to advertisers? I never clik on banner ads when shopping on line. I base my search on google, for example, go directly to the site I want. If I clik on a link from there it is to go to ups tracking, or to go from pricewatch directly to the vendors site.
Now, I know that marketoids will claim that they have full control over the brains of all humans, but when I see a banner ad, I always jump to the conclusion (possibly incorrect) that the product is either:
Sleazy
A Scam
Desperate
In some way substandard and in need of "marketing" to push it thru the "channel"
and I make a mental note to treat it with suspicion.
Thats great! using your logic, I've decided to let an infestation of termites back into my home, after having exterminated them last week.
'Cause, um, you know, they might be sorry, and retroactively right their wrongs..
In my view, Dblklik is indistinguishable from a parasite.. invades my private property by stealth, and attempts to steal my privacy
Oh, yes, I'm running junkbuster... dead easy to install under Linux, and I can easily modify the block list (just a text file of URL's) to meet exactly MY needs.
Mozilla achieves a goal, and the team deserves praise.
It costs us nothing to give them a pat on the back, or congratulate them on their achievement. It helps no one to diss them, or try to take away their moment of glory.
Working on Linux or OSS projects in general does not require takeing a vow of poverty, or wearing sack-cloth and smearing onself with ashes. People have done good work, and they deserve to be recognized for it.
I, personaly, feel that I owe far more to the creators of Linux, Netscape, Gnome, Staroffice, blender, emacs, Mesa, and the thousands of other packages than I will ever be able to repay. Oh, yes, thanks to Redhat, and whoever did RPM's - they save my ass lots of times.
Netscape 4.72 here, on RH 6.1/Gnome. I have no problems with the url box..
I have RH on all my machines, brand X os as well on some of them. My internet machine has only RH on it, not even a dos partition.
I crash Netscape maybe once every month? (it just dissapears). One time I remember Netscape went into some sort of loop... Not a real problem, I just run Gtop, find the netscape PID (say, 2709), then go to terminal, su (superuser), and kill -9 2709. Quick, clean, easy, no rebooting.
I have never been able to hang X or crash the whole box.
Re:More money = better grade at the end?
on
Laptop Exams?
·
· Score: 1
why is it important to know how to do everything by hand
Because sometimes the machine answer will be wrong. If you have no ability to do at least an approximation by hand, you have no way of checking the machine answer.
Take FEA as an example- It's easy to put in a wrong boundery condition and get a wrong answer. If you don't have a hand calculated approximation, there may be no red flag to alert you of your error.
I still get 20 to 30 spams a day, and will soon change my username to something else just so I can open my e-mail without waiting 10-15 mins. while the SPAM down loads..... huff huff puff puff.... I'm getting angry....must... control... fist... of... death...
Just curious here..
Why not read your mail in the shell account at your ISP, using telnet and pine? No downloading of mail, period. You can just look at the subject header and delete any mail you do not recognize.
I am not trying to be sarcastic here.. I just don't get why you are putting up with your current situation.
Slashdot Mirror
I paid 2.63 to develop and print 24exp of 35mm at Sams Club. 12 rolls of 24exp 35mm film (fuji) cost about $4 after the $8 fuji rebate.
So I pay, what, 18c a picture, printed 4"x6"
A sheet of high quality paper for an inkjet costs about a dollar. How much is the ink to print it - 25c? And the cost of the inkjet printer itself?
Then add the cost of losing or damaging (sitting on) one of the tiny memory sticks. Then there is the cost of batteries for the digital camera.. It uses a lot more than a manual SLR. The batteries are rechargable, you say.. Ok, how many people have rechargable stuff that won't hold a charge anymore? (no pushing now, you'll all get counted ;^) and getting new ones isn't cheap.
And the kicker.. You need a computer to even see the pictures you took last month. What? your system ate itself and you had no backup? Yes, I know you meant to burn them to CD but never had time since the baby came. And your baby pictures are now gone forever? Bummer!
I'm sure your SO will forgive you. [NOT] ;^)
.
No off-the shelf parts
Enclosure machined from a solid block of 7075 Aluminium instead of a premade sheetmetal box for $12.
Bobbin cores for magnetics are machined out of rod stock in one piece.
Etc.
All I can think of is the cost of the truck is included, or they included the costs of the trial versions before they hit upon the best combination. The generator might be expensive in france, too... Here in the usa, gensets are cheap used, as people are de-Y2-kay-ing themselves. I would think a tesla coil with an antenna on it, for example, whould jam everything for cheap, but maybe it's so obvious you could not hide it for long..
You can get realtime (not delayed) streaming stock quotes for free from DATEK. It's kind of cool to see the stocks move around during the day. The javascript pops up another window that shows the bid, ask, last, etc price, and you can just leave it running, it keeps updating the prices.
The rest of us realize that all of the above are just individual, unrelated people. There are good ones, there are bad ones.
It's not rational to judge a person by their job.
Hell, there must be some smart people at MS, right? ;^)
The belt only costs $8.
It takes less then an hour to change it if you've done it before, 2 hours for the first time.
I guess you can tell I don't have other people fix my cars...
removing the intake valve entirely
You might want to take another look. Unless your engine is a 2 stroke (and it isn't) you need an intake valve to get fresh combustion air into the cylinder.
Now, there is a whole line of 2 cycle diesel engine (the GM Detroit Diesel series 71 V) which has an inlet port for fresh air at the base of the cylinder wall, and 4 exhaust valves in the head. This engine uses a roots type supercharger to pressurize the air in the intake manifold. There are 6, 8, 12, and 16 cylinder versions. I think there is a 3 cyl version for city buses.
Perhaps you mean that there is no throttle body valve (or no throttle body) but this is true on all diesel engines.
The better overall fuel-air ratio is what makes it more efficient.
The much higher compression ratio, lower parasitic pumping losses, and higher thermodynamic efficiency make the diesel more efficient. The air intake of a diesel engine is uncontrolled (thus the lower parasitic pumping loss), and the fuel/air ratio is uncontrolled. The absolute amount of fuel (not the ratio) injected (at very high pressure directly into the cylinder, thru the injector in the cylinder head) at the top of the compression stroke determines the power output of that stroke. The very high compression ratio of the engine, and the self-ignition properties of diesel fuel (low octane number, i.e. high cetane number) causes the fuel to ignite as it is injected.
The use of a turbocharger is a great bonus for fuel efficiency, because it uses waste heat energy from the exhaust gas stream to reduce intake pumping losses even further, or even make the losses negative (i.e., helps push the engine forward on the intake stroke, if the intake manifold pressure is high enough) Of course, in a gasoline engine high compression and high intake manifold pressures lead to knock problems, but this isn't an issue for a diesel.
the fuel wouldn't ignite if it was evenly distributed
That's true if you were trying to ignite gasoline vapor with a spark, but diesel fuel self-ignites (detonates) due to the high pressure/temperature in the cylinder at the top of the compression stroke. The glo plugs (they are not spark plugs) contain small electric heaters to help preheat the cylinder when the engine is cold so that starting is easier. The glo plugs are not in use when the engine is running.
A detailed book you might find interesting is
The internal combustion engine in theory and practice- by Charles Fayette Taylor, MIT press. isbn 0262700166
Last time I ordered, the Mill 2 pci /4meg was 79. The mystique and extra memory was also there.
No, I'm not kidding here.. everone will say "excuse me" if they bump into you, no matter how slightly. People will say "excuse me" when they step in front of you. No one will crowd against you, or be rude in any way.
It's amazing.
Obligatory disclaimer: I'm gun neutral- don't own any, find them boring. And gun shows are REEEEAAALLY boring.. I mean, how can people walk past 300 tables which all have slightly different varients of the same thing on them without falling asleep? (not a flame-- I really want to know!)
A persons right to privacy of communication was established long ago in two important areas:
US mail
Wiretapping and hidden recording law
In the US mail case, it is a crime to tamper with other peoples mail. It does not matter if the person used your employers pen, ink, stationary, and scotch tape to construct the letter. You are legally prohibited from tampering with it.
The second point is wiretapping. You may not record the conversations of other people over the telephone without their knowledge and consent. This is true even if you "own" the telephone equipment.
What we clearly need is for the spirit of these privacy laws to be brought up to date with current technological capabilities.
The current behavior by companies violates the spirit and intent of these longstanding laws.
Is that why they are doing their damdest to get off that island on rafts?
If it's such a great place, why doesn't Castro let people leave? Why does his police force swamp the boats with people on board?
or p5ab-woa (without onboard sound)
I got the soundless version at tccomputers.com, with K6-500.
Only has 2 isa slots though, but I never used the sound card anyway, so I just left it out.
I just can't bear to throw away those huge old gateway full tower cases, like gateway sold when the DX2-66 ruled the earth.
I've heard *rumors* of some issues regarding agp video on some Asus mb, but as I use PCI Millenium II ($79 from the matrox website, refurbished/closeout area) I've no personal data on that.
Keep in mind, though, that this progression seems perfectly reasonable to the members of the Cult of Self-Esteem who run the school systems.
It used to be that only a small percentage of students were violent fuck-ups, and they could be dealt with. Unfortunately, society decided that to was harmfull to discipline these students for spitting at the teacher, hitting other kids with bats, and setting cats on fire.
Parents of VFU's sued the school system, claiming that their precious little VFU was "disabled" and thus protected by the Americans with Disabilites act against *discrimination*! (read - expulsion from school for violent behavior)
The predictable result: More normal students were victims of these few violent fuck-ups, and when abused long enough by the VFU's, normal kids started to have issues of their own. With all the havoc going on, there is little time for actual education in math and physics.
Like someone once said to me: Tap you pet mouse on the head with a pencil long enough and it will go insane and bite you.
I replied: No, thanks, I'll take your word for it.
And yes, I did visit his web page, and the quotes he has chosen show a sharp mind, on par with New Yorker cartoons.
Now, I understand that some people consider pokemon and a Big Mac to be high art. And I'm not going to diss you for not liking his site.
I do suggest, however, that the point of his site is content.
Perhaps, with time, you will grow to appreciate what he has to say, and why he has said it.
Like cable tv, lawn service, giant SUVs and the delivery of bottled water to your home, cell phones are extremely expensive for the added utility they provide.
You want to do something with your money? Invest it, anywhere. 10 years from now, instead of using that cell phone for a doorstop, you'll have a tidy sum to spend on something of value-- like not HAVING to work.
Do the math, it will open your eyes.
If you feel you MUST have instant connectivity, get a pager or something, the smartbeep ones seem cheap.
They were called Vax mainframes.
several hundred users could use the system at once, and although the VMS system was command line driven, the terminals did support graphics, so you could display graphs, pictures, etc... VMS is a very powerfull and full-featured operating system, which resulted in some of the same "too hard to use" complaints you hear about Linux.
Vaxes were also commonly clustered, and from a user point of view would share load. There was no crashing (ok, maybe once a year, or when the operator tried to crash the system on purpose (ps- Dec fired his ass)), no rebooting, and the system was up and on 24/7.
If you demand a more gui environment, you could cluster vaxstations (small workstations) together with a mainframe over the network- the mainframe stored all user info/files, with the vaxstation providing processing power.
Security was reasonably well implemented, with users being protected from each other, as well as the system being protected from the users!
(un)fortunately, vax hardware was built to withstand the rigors of rocket launch. This turned out to be stupid for several reasons-
Most users did not launch their vaxes and so percieved no benefit from the over-design
Hardware was absurdly expensive to build.
Hardware was absurdly expensive to design and to test (get thru the DEC standard 102 tests)
In addition, VMS licensing fees were high, and DEC seemed to discourage 3ed party apps.
Everyone prefered cheap, cheap, cheap, and so the PC, with MS on it, crept from the primeval ooze to the position it occupies today.
We do not do much with government at the moment, like the Department of Energy or EPA directly. The DOE has quite a bit of money, but frankly, I've known too many small companies that have been too dependent on government contracts. They're not always reliable payers, and they're kind of a tar baby sometimes.
Can anyone explain the meaning of the term "tar baby" in this context? I cannot imagine a racist term was intended, what are the other meanings?
When a newbie sets up Junkbuster, they have to go to preferences- advanced - proxy - and choose local proxy. The default choice is "direct connection to the internet" which I think is pretty self-explanatory. So if someone WANTS *boggle* to go to a busted page, the way of doing it is fairly clear.. set the prefs the way they were before, "direct connection to the internet"
Junkbuster does not go in and mess with the browser settings itself, on the sly.
As a side note, who (seriously) would expect to get a honest answer on what the "fuss" is about from a site which secretly spys on web users, and when caught claims it's no big deal?
I might as well go to the NetNanny site, et. al. (think encrypted block lists) to find out about peacfire. Companies who behave in sneaky ways on the web are unlikely, IMHO, to be truthfull.
Now, I know that marketoids will claim that they have full control over the brains of all humans, but when I see a banner ad, I always jump to the conclusion (possibly incorrect) that the product is either:
Sleazy
A Scam
Desperate
In some way substandard and in need of "marketing" to push it thru the "channel"
and I make a mental note to treat it with suspicion.
retroactively rights their wrongs.
LOL!
Thats great! using your logic, I've decided to let an infestation of termites back into my home, after having exterminated them last week.
'Cause, um, you know, they might be sorry, and retroactively right their wrongs..
In my view, Dblklik is indistinguishable from a parasite.. invades my private property by stealth, and attempts to steal my privacy
Oh, yes, I'm running junkbuster ... dead easy to install under Linux, and I can easily modify the block list (just a text file of URL's) to meet exactly MY needs.
Thank You!
Mozilla achieves a goal, and the team deserves praise.
It costs us nothing to give them a pat on the back, or congratulate them on their achievement. It helps no one to diss them, or try to take away their moment of glory.
Working on Linux or OSS projects in general does not require takeing a vow of poverty, or wearing sack-cloth and smearing onself with ashes. People have done good work, and they deserve to be recognized for it.
I, personaly, feel that I owe far more to the creators of Linux, Netscape, Gnome, Staroffice, blender, emacs, Mesa, and the thousands of other packages than I will ever be able to repay. Oh, yes, thanks to Redhat, and whoever did RPM's - they save my ass lots of times.
I have RH on all my machines, brand X os as well on some of them. My internet machine has only RH on it, not even a dos partition.
I crash Netscape maybe once every month? (it just dissapears). One time I remember Netscape went into some sort of loop... Not a real problem, I just run Gtop, find the netscape PID (say, 2709), then go to terminal, su (superuser), and kill -9 2709. Quick, clean, easy, no rebooting.
I have never been able to hang X or crash the whole box.
Because sometimes the machine answer will be wrong. If you have no ability to do at least an approximation by hand, you have no way of checking the machine answer.
Take FEA as an example- It's easy to put in a wrong boundery condition and get a wrong answer. If you don't have a hand calculated approximation, there may be no red flag to alert you of your error.
In this case, the governor? of NH showed some balls-
He sent police and had the MA state trooper arrested!
Just curious here..
Why not read your mail in the shell account at your ISP, using telnet and pine? No downloading of mail, period. You can just look at the subject header and delete any mail you do not recognize.
I am not trying to be sarcastic here.. I just don't get why you are putting up with your current situation.