This just in! Swarms of hackers are going to small claims court to eliminate copyright law, American Pie and Motherhood. Microsoft is calling on all active NOT NET developers to activly defend SCO in a small claims court near you! Give us your time, effort, code and blood to match the money we collect from you! Rise and crush the Anarchist-AntiChrists who would librate you from our lockins and other Restrictions. We can't fund SCO forever!
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by inviting suits to be brought against them, they are bringing the targets for countersuits out into the light.
Free software copyright holders don't have to be rooted out. They put their names in the souce code that SCO is distributing and everyone who bothers to read knows who they are.
They proably hope that there will be a class action, and can countersue the whole class for using their proprietary code.
Well that would be icing on the cake. After suing business partners, big users and treatening everyone who has ever used "Linux", they would turn around and sue the very authors of the code they wish to steal. Fat chance, there bub.
SCO has nothing. They arethe only company in world that can tell what their own code is and if it's ever landed in free software. So far their public proof has brought them nothing but embarasment - claiming BSD code as their own.
Willfully violating the GPL puts SCO in the same class as movie and music "pirates" who wholesale violate copyright law for proftit. Their reasoning is wholy circular and worthless. Individual free software authors have done nothing wrong to SCO and have no relationship with them other than the GPL that alows SCO to distribute their code. Each and every one of them can remove their piece from SCO's ability to distribute. It's simple copyright law, they never granted SCO the explicit permission needed to publish their works and can stop SCO at any time.
Under US law all sorts of stupid and contradictory things are possible. Cable operators are forced to air local broadcast TV "competition" but do not have to allow access to ISP competitors to the same wires. The bill of rights is quite clear about free press but I can't tell you anything about DeCSS. I really hope that my country is not dumb enough to "invalidate" the GPL, one of the least restrictive of all copyright dependent licenses, while upholding more and less restrictive ones. The only thing that the above have in common is that they put money in someone's pocket at the expense of others. It's more than a scandal or discgrace it's economically harmful.
Surely the contradiction would be large enough for people to notice in the GPL case. If M$'s odius EULA's continue to be enforced by BSA raids while the GPL is openly violated would that not be enough to show that laws are bought and paid for? I'm not sure how anyone could violate BSD style license terms.
Things comming to that point would kill the tremendous IT momentum that's been building in the US and elswhere. I can't be alone in thinking that I'd be better off not coding at all than writing stuff that any old greed head is free to close up, pervert and promote over my own work. Free software is doing more than opening the floodgates of programming for everyone, it establishes a community of trust and a base of code that won't be abused to the detriment of all. Independent contractors, large and small, can use free software without having to asnwer questions about when the big M$ junk will come out and not work with it. This is largely responsible for the tremendous variety of quality code we see on Linux today - the GPL works and works for everyone but tools like M$ and $CO.
Anti-competitive laws lead to nothing but stagnation.
You don't need eyes to see where they are going.
on
Microsoft's new CLI
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· Score: 5, Interesting
Well, errr, you can't really tell where they are going at all. They have derided scripting with their idiotic GUI bet which they claim is incompatible with scripting. Well it was on their platform because they spagetti coded everything into the GUI. A brief look back shows where they have been with CLI. It also shows that Microsft really can't compete and those who stick with them are in for a bad ride.
Gates said the release of XP "marked the end of an era, the end of DOS and also the end of Windows 95."... Gates informing the crowd that he agreed with Apple's Jobs that Windows 3.1 was a "crummy operating system," and assuring the crowd that he'd soon say that about Windows 95.
Of course, we remember they used the phrase "end of dos" for the launch of windows 95. Funny how they are now saying the same things about XP they said about 3.1, 95, 98 and ME. That's consistency!
Now, do they have consistancy in shells? They have derided their primary shell, DOS. But what of their other scripting efforts? Remember their "Unix Killer" "New Technology (NT)" and their ksh? Korn does!
Ah yes, so portable it was. While NT is dead, csh and ksh trive themselves and in their free counterparts. No new training is required for bash or pdksh.
Java is our latest programming tool, and we've got a Java compiler with the highest benchmark feeds, great debugging. Java's -as you know, is a wonderful language, and everybody should have that in their portfolio. (1996)
He tried to make the crowd laugh at Sun in the same speach because he wanted to kill Unix with NT. Where is M$ "java" today?
C#.NET and all look to me like a combination of all the second rate junk they've thrown together in their attempt to emulate and eradicate first rate competitors. "Linux is a Cancer", they say, use our shared source instead. Yeah right.
Oh wait, I see the patterns. EEE, Embrace, Extend, Extinguish followed by "that sucks, buy the new one." You have to be blind to miss it. If you follow the M$ way, you will be constantly sucked for money and time learning their new tweaks.
It's only going to get worse because free software is impossible for them to eat up or beat. Their efforts to stick to their previous marketing plans are wrecked by actually having to compete on merrits and price. This is making them less and less stable. The closed source model can not compete with the free software development model.
The real reason why the development of quantum computers is going so slow is pretty simple: everytime they check on their progress they lose the damned thing!
I thought it was because they can't know both when and what it will be.
Have you ever actually met the man and heard him rant? Most of his printed work is far from rant material. It's factual, positive and forward looking. Generally they are more positive than telling people in a Debian thread that you personally won't use Debian anymore.
Why am I labelled a troll for speaking up?
I don't know why. I would have moderated your post as flame bait. Wading into someone else's conversation about a social contract to tell them they are a bunch of elitists for thinking of pine as different from mutt due to likensing issues, crapping on a well respected member of their community and all that is simply infamatory.
You don't need to back down about elitism, you need to save it for the proper place. You might think long and hard about it first though. Consider what those supposed elitists are advocating, software freedom. Is that something you want to thwart? Very few actual linux users actually act the way you presume they do. I get tired of Bible thumpers on Burbon Street, but I always smile for them and pay some respect. They are out there doing things and might do some good. What good does it do to call them names?
You're kidding, right? I own a Linux company. I'm the active leader of a Linux Users Group. I write free software.
So, what are you doing posting drivel about people hating software? Change my view to see pounded posts, oh yes there it is:
Honestly, though, I'm tired of all this "we hate software if it's not free", and "GNU/"-everything cr4p. To each his own, I guess, but it gets kinda old after a while.
Joe, baby, this is a thread about the Debian Social Contract. If you don't want to listen to people talk about putting their resources towards free software instead of promoting non free software, what are you doing in this thread? Did you want to piss people off and call them "elitists" for worrying about such issues? You logged onto a Debian thread and told people to stay away from Debian? What exactly are you trying to contribute to this conversation besides insults?
Have you been drinking? Why the rants about mutt and pine?
It's perfect quality software. I want it in my DVD, my camera and my nuclear core monitoring hardware. Make it run submarines and life support systems. Can you f**k me harder? Please?
That's [Ogg on M$] about as likely as it running a Linux kernel.
Both things are what any reasonable company would use. They are cheaper and technically superior. If Microsoft does not use superior and cheaper technology, they are the stupid kind of Zealots they like to lable other people as.
I'm tired of all this "we hate software if it's not free"
You have it backwards. It's not that anyone hates software, it's that there's so much free software there's no reason to use things with restrictions. Why waste your time fooling around with something that's got strings attached when there are 5 or 6 free packages that do exaclty the same thing? How exactly do you hate software anyway?
What I'm tired of is all they hype of commercial software. I hate hearing loud mouths promise me an email client will make me feel like superman. Someone trying to sell me shit that does not work well and that I don't need, that's something to hate.
Now, Mr. Fart, feel free to pay for the above mentioned sleaze bags all you want. Take it and your stale nonsense back to Mr. Gates where it comes from and belongs.
Are you for free trade or against free trade? You can't divide market into two and advocate free trade for one part (goods) but not the other (labor.)
The world can be devided in two; free and non-free. Vietnam is clearly in the non-free camp and trade with Vietnam should be limited. Every penny given to Vietnam helps keep their people down. Every penny "saved" by you at the grocery store is a penny your free, catfish farming neighbor will not have. Make your choice and vote.
Compiling? Why? Why not just log into the box and do your compiling there?
I'd considered the problem from the perspective of grouping up many small hard drives in various boxes to get more and more secure storage for archiving, not something active like compiling your kernel.
As for the floppy example, you should note how good the performance was. He moved a 3.6MB file to it in 32 seconds, that might sound slow to you and me, but 112KB/s, close to the USB maximum throughput. The RAID software used the interface. If I'vr decided I want to archive something via my network, I've already decided that the delay is worth it. If a net RAID sucks down my data as fast as I can send it, but also gives me error correction, I've done myself a favor by using it. This might not work so well for kernel compiling, but it would be just fine for tar files of images.
Bunk. If you can do raid over USB, you can do it over 10/100 ethernet. As long as it's just used for data storage, the loss in speed should be no big deal. Windows, at least, would not notice.
While I'd like to see it that way, I don't have a legal team to challenge big dumb companies that would like to claim my stuff as their "IP" so that they don't have to compete with me. So long as DMCA exists, long and tedious court battles will be the only way to defend your rights. That in itself is a major victory for big dumb companies who would love to legislate their competition away. Some partial victory might be anounced if Lexmark is made to carry all of the costs they inflicted, but that would only do those with deep enough pockets any good.
I've got more than my share of data, enough to discard the 800MB or so that AOL likes to mail me. 800MB/person is not shocking when I think of all the CDs I've stumbled across in the field - literally grass fields in the midle of nowhere.
What bullshit. The dude took a picture of a loading dock and the back of a truck and said it was at the print building. Nothing else was identifiable. Tell me, what big building have you seen on a "campus" that did not have a loading dock?
I hope this employee makes and posts drawings of the campus, and all the floorplans he can remember. He might as well because he's been and will be treated as if he did.
Get your facts straight, M$ justified it as a "security violation". It gave terrorists valuable information about a section of loading dock and the back of the truck that look like any other truck and loading dock. No, that makes no sense but we are talking M$ here. Sensless and dishonest are par for the course.
1. MS copy shop operations are in the same building as shipping and receiving.
No, not even that. All we know is that the print building has a loading dock. What large building does not have a loading dock?
"Security violation" my ass. Would that be like selling your source code to China or the former KGB after swearing on a bible in court that a source code leak would be a national security risk?
XP cost $110 minimum retail and it does nothing for you but run screen savers and solitair. Office cost about $400. When you build a custom computer, $500 makes the difference between getting a junky Celeron and a spiffy P4 with all the trimmings like dual channel 400 DDR memory and an 800MHz FSB. It could also mean the difference between the cost of a Duron or an Athlon XP or Athlon 64 systems. How many people really need M$ Office so bad they would make THAT choice?
Debian / Open Office and nice hardware for me, thank you. Hell, I'll take the same on cheap hardware too. M$ is just not woth the price and heartache of worms, popups and other junk. If they can't deal with the internet, what is it really worth?
To the casual person who doesn't know what a horrible piece of legislation the DMCA is, this could look like some kind of compromise possibly giving the law more credibility
Amen, brother. "You see," they can say, "we have experts like the Librarian of Congress making sure this law is reasonable every three years." The lie was built into the law when it was written.
The average man has no idea how bad this law is. They generally have not even heard of the DMCA or know what it stands for, much less what it actually does. When they find out, they will be angry.
They are finding out. As people realize that they can't make printer cartiges and competition for common household item dissapears, they will know. When they find out it's as simple as, "This law prevents you from telling other people how things work." they will realy be angry and this law will be chucked out for the unAmerican piece of shit that it is.
It's hard to think of so unAmerican a law. The purpose, as interpreted, is to set up and protect exclusive franchises by limiting free speech. Both of these things are abhorent and go against everything this country is supposed to stand for. Even the means of administering it are unAmerican. Really, where else has the US governemt set up such sweeping restrictions on commerce through censoring speech and then had a single desk jockey issue "exceptions"? If I can't get the good librarian to say what I want to do is OK, I go to jail. That's really outrageous. Legitimate study and commerce has been criminalized, but these idiots would throw someone like Ben Franklin under the jail.
There's no limit to the application of this stupid law. We've already seen a company try to "protect" themselves from competition in publication formats, movie formats, priter tonners, and wood cutting jigs. The same kind of "protection" will be applied to all computerized gadgets to protect their coding and computerized kill switches will be stuck everywhere needed or not.. If a printer company can keep people from reprogramming their discarded printer cartidges, can't video card makers keep me from making drivers and automobile companies keep me from programming other people's cars for them? Can't they keep me from reseting the annoying little "check engine" red light?
I can tell you from a month of retail experience in the hood that everyone knows that internet music sharing kicks radio's ass. People with gold teeth and their 12 year old girls are not just using P2P, they are making their own music and sharing it. A 4MB mp3 file gets through dialup just fine and the services with automated downloads let you get everything you want while you sleep. I've seen Kazaa in Doctor's offices for crying out loud. That was a windoze hell hole - all adwared and virused up - that's a different story. I can easily imagine that dentists in Hokkaido are downloading enough music files to make their radios look like the 100 year old antiques they are. It's taken 8 years or so but it's everywhere and that's great. Radio is dead.
You think this is a bad idea. I have to agree, but for different reasons.
There's nothing wrong with trying to clean up your own network. These boxes would be a great idea on a corporate network. When some new M$ transmitted disease comes springing out of LookOut of Internet Exploder, a central box could fix the problem.
For all that, I still think projects like this are a waste of time. Why should prople spend their time fixing Windoze? The best you can hope for is the RAV fate, a buyout. Microsoft more than likely, will give you the shaft some other way. Look how they treat the SAMBA people who have done fantastic work fixing M$ flaws and omisions. People who use Windoze should just be left to their fate. The Fanboys who still want to use Windoze are simply going to blame this service when things go wrong. Midrosoft is shit, all you get when you fool with it is dirty.
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Bill Gates has used poor code to enrich himself from the first time he touched a keyboard. In high school, he broke the first system he got to use, then charged them to fix it.. Are you surprised to see the same thing over and over again? His typical answer, "Blame the user" and "blame anyone but me" is the ultimate cop-out.
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Free software copyright holders don't have to be rooted out. They put their names in the souce code that SCO is distributing and everyone who bothers to read knows who they are.
They proably hope that there will be a class action, and can countersue the whole class for using their proprietary code.
Well that would be icing on the cake. After suing business partners, big users and treatening everyone who has ever used "Linux", they would turn around and sue the very authors of the code they wish to steal. Fat chance, there bub.
SCO has nothing. They arethe only company in world that can tell what their own code is and if it's ever landed in free software. So far their public proof has brought them nothing but embarasment - claiming BSD code as their own.
Willfully violating the GPL puts SCO in the same class as movie and music "pirates" who wholesale violate copyright law for proftit. Their reasoning is wholy circular and worthless. Individual free software authors have done nothing wrong to SCO and have no relationship with them other than the GPL that alows SCO to distribute their code. Each and every one of them can remove their piece from SCO's ability to distribute. It's simple copyright law, they never granted SCO the explicit permission needed to publish their works and can stop SCO at any time.
Surely the contradiction would be large enough for people to notice in the GPL case. If M$'s odius EULA's continue to be enforced by BSA raids while the GPL is openly violated would that not be enough to show that laws are bought and paid for? I'm not sure how anyone could violate BSD style license terms.
Things comming to that point would kill the tremendous IT momentum that's been building in the US and elswhere. I can't be alone in thinking that I'd be better off not coding at all than writing stuff that any old greed head is free to close up, pervert and promote over my own work. Free software is doing more than opening the floodgates of programming for everyone, it establishes a community of trust and a base of code that won't be abused to the detriment of all. Independent contractors, large and small, can use free software without having to asnwer questions about when the big M$ junk will come out and not work with it. This is largely responsible for the tremendous variety of quality code we see on Linux today - the GPL works and works for everyone but tools like M$ and $CO.
Anti-competitive laws lead to nothing but stagnation.
Bill Gates, on the launch of XP:
Gates said the release of XP "marked the end of an era, the end of DOS and also the end of Windows 95." ... Gates informing the crowd that he agreed with Apple's Jobs that Windows 3.1 was a "crummy operating system," and assuring the crowd that he'd soon say that about Windows 95.
Of course, we remember they used the phrase "end of dos" for the launch of windows 95. Funny how they are now saying the same things about XP they said about 3.1, 95, 98 and ME. That's consistency!
Now, do they have consistancy in shells? They have derided their primary shell, DOS. But what of their other scripting efforts? Remember their "Unix Killer" "New Technology (NT)" and their ksh? Korn does!
I knew that Microsoft had licensed a number of tools from MKS so I came to the microphone to tell the speaker that this was not the "real" Korn Shell and that MKS was not even compatible with ksh88. I had no intention of embarrassing him and thought that he would explain the compromises that Microsoft had to make in choosing MKS Korn Shell. Instead, he insisted that I was wrong and that Microsoft had indeed chosen a "real" Korn Shell.
Ah yes, so portable it was. While NT is dead, csh and ksh trive themselves and in their free counterparts. No new training is required for bash or pdksh.
For an instant, Bill liked Java:
Java is our latest programming tool, and we've got a Java compiler with the highest benchmark feeds, great debugging. Java's -as you know, is a wonderful language, and everybody should have that in their portfolio. (1996)
He tried to make the crowd laugh at Sun in the same speach because he wanted to kill Unix with NT. Where is M$ "java" today?
C# .NET and all look to me like a combination of all the second rate junk they've thrown together in their attempt to emulate and eradicate first rate competitors. "Linux is a Cancer", they say, use our shared source instead. Yeah right.
Oh wait, I see the patterns. EEE, Embrace, Extend, Extinguish followed by "that sucks, buy the new one." You have to be blind to miss it. If you follow the M$ way, you will be constantly sucked for money and time learning their new tweaks.
It's only going to get worse because free software is impossible for them to eat up or beat. Their efforts to stick to their previous marketing plans are wrecked by actually having to compete on merrits and price. This is making them less and less stable. The closed source model can not compete with the free software development model.
I thought it was because they can't know both when and what it will be.
Have you ever actually met the man and heard him rant? Most of his printed work is far from rant material. It's factual, positive and forward looking. Generally they are more positive than telling people in a Debian thread that you personally won't use Debian anymore.
Why am I labelled a troll for speaking up?
I don't know why. I would have moderated your post as flame bait. Wading into someone else's conversation about a social contract to tell them they are a bunch of elitists for thinking of pine as different from mutt due to likensing issues, crapping on a well respected member of their community and all that is simply infamatory.
You don't need to back down about elitism, you need to save it for the proper place. You might think long and hard about it first though. Consider what those supposed elitists are advocating, software freedom. Is that something you want to thwart? Very few actual linux users actually act the way you presume they do. I get tired of Bible thumpers on Burbon Street, but I always smile for them and pay some respect. They are out there doing things and might do some good. What good does it do to call them names?
So, what are you doing posting drivel about people hating software? Change my view to see pounded posts, oh yes there it is:
Honestly, though, I'm tired of all this "we hate software if it's not free", and "GNU/"-everything cr4p. To each his own, I guess, but it gets kinda old after a while.
Joe, baby, this is a thread about the Debian Social Contract. If you don't want to listen to people talk about putting their resources towards free software instead of promoting non free software, what are you doing in this thread? Did you want to piss people off and call them "elitists" for worrying about such issues? You logged onto a Debian thread and told people to stay away from Debian? What exactly are you trying to contribute to this conversation besides insults?
Have you been drinking? Why the rants about mutt and pine?
It's perfect quality software. I want it in my DVD, my camera and my nuclear core monitoring hardware. Make it run submarines and life support systems. Can you f**k me harder? Please?
Both things are what any reasonable company would use. They are cheaper and technically superior. If Microsoft does not use superior and cheaper technology, they are the stupid kind of Zealots they like to lable other people as.
Microsoft has proved their collective IQ before.
I'm tired of all this "we hate software if it's not free"
You have it backwards. It's not that anyone hates software, it's that there's so much free software there's no reason to use things with restrictions. Why waste your time fooling around with something that's got strings attached when there are 5 or 6 free packages that do exaclty the same thing? How exactly do you hate software anyway?
What I'm tired of is all they hype of commercial software. I hate hearing loud mouths promise me an email client will make me feel like superman. Someone trying to sell me shit that does not work well and that I don't need, that's something to hate.
Now, Mr. Fart, feel free to pay for the above mentioned sleaze bags all you want. Take it and your stale nonsense back to Mr. Gates where it comes from and belongs.
The world can be devided in two; free and non-free. Vietnam is clearly in the non-free camp and trade with Vietnam should be limited. Every penny given to Vietnam helps keep their people down. Every penny "saved" by you at the grocery store is a penny your free, catfish farming neighbor will not have. Make your choice and vote.
I'd considered the problem from the perspective of grouping up many small hard drives in various boxes to get more and more secure storage for archiving, not something active like compiling your kernel.
As for the floppy example, you should note how good the performance was. He moved a 3.6MB file to it in 32 seconds, that might sound slow to you and me, but 112KB/s, close to the USB maximum throughput. The RAID software used the interface. If I'vr decided I want to archive something via my network, I've already decided that the delay is worth it. If a net RAID sucks down my data as fast as I can send it, but also gives me error correction, I've done myself a favor by using it. This might not work so well for kernel compiling, but it would be just fine for tar files of images.
The DMCA must go.
It's a joke..
you don't think I actually tried that, do you?
What bullshit. The dude took a picture of a loading dock and the back of a truck and said it was at the print building. Nothing else was identifiable. Tell me, what big building have you seen on a "campus" that did not have a loading dock?
I hope this employee makes and posts drawings of the campus, and all the floorplans he can remember. He might as well because he's been and will be treated as if he did.
I'd be happy if M$ would fire people for lacking discresion, morals, taste and hygine, but alas such things get you promoted.
Get your facts straight, M$ justified it as a "security violation". It gave terrorists valuable information about a section of loading dock and the back of the truck that look like any other truck and loading dock. No, that makes no sense but we are talking M$ here. Sensless and dishonest are par for the course.
No, not even that. All we know is that the print building has a loading dock. What large building does not have a loading dock?
"Security violation" my ass. Would that be like selling your source code to China or the former KGB after swearing on a bible in court that a source code leak would be a national security risk?
Debian / Open Office and nice hardware for me, thank you. Hell, I'll take the same on cheap hardware too. M$ is just not woth the price and heartache of worms, popups and other junk. If they can't deal with the internet, what is it really worth?
Amen, brother. "You see," they can say, "we have experts like the Librarian of Congress making sure this law is reasonable every three years." The lie was built into the law when it was written.
The average man has no idea how bad this law is. They generally have not even heard of the DMCA or know what it stands for, much less what it actually does. When they find out, they will be angry.
They are finding out. As people realize that they can't make printer cartiges and competition for common household item dissapears, they will know. When they find out it's as simple as, "This law prevents you from telling other people how things work." they will realy be angry and this law will be chucked out for the unAmerican piece of shit that it is.
It's hard to think of so unAmerican a law. The purpose, as interpreted, is to set up and protect exclusive franchises by limiting free speech. Both of these things are abhorent and go against everything this country is supposed to stand for. Even the means of administering it are unAmerican. Really, where else has the US governemt set up such sweeping restrictions on commerce through censoring speech and then had a single desk jockey issue "exceptions"? If I can't get the good librarian to say what I want to do is OK, I go to jail. That's really outrageous. Legitimate study and commerce has been criminalized, but these idiots would throw someone like Ben Franklin under the jail.
There's no limit to the application of this stupid law. We've already seen a company try to "protect" themselves from competition in publication formats, movie formats, priter tonners, and wood cutting jigs. The same kind of "protection" will be applied to all computerized gadgets to protect their coding and computerized kill switches will be stuck everywhere needed or not.. If a printer company can keep people from reprogramming their discarded printer cartidges, can't video card makers keep me from making drivers and automobile companies keep me from programming other people's cars for them? Can't they keep me from reseting the annoying little "check engine" red light?
Bill Clinton, you screwed more than your staff!
Get out of your cube and live!
There's nothing wrong with trying to clean up your own network. These boxes would be a great idea on a corporate network. When some new M$ transmitted disease comes springing out of LookOut of Internet Exploder, a central box could fix the problem.
For all that, I still think projects like this are a waste of time. Why should prople spend their time fixing Windoze? The best you can hope for is the RAV fate, a buyout. Microsoft more than likely, will give you the shaft some other way. Look how they treat the SAMBA people who have done fantastic work fixing M$ flaws and omisions. People who use Windoze should just be left to their fate. The Fanboys who still want to use Windoze are simply going to blame this service when things go wrong. Midrosoft is shit, all you get when you fool with it is dirty.