On the other hand NJ is not a small market and if Citizenre puts NJ ahead of the game, other states will get rid of their caps as well.
The real limit comes from the intermittency of renewable energy which has to be compensated for with on demand generation. Solar tends
to match peak demand pretty well so it can fill in pretty well, but most people pick a figure of 20% before things have to be done differently.
I'm quite interested in the post 20% situation. Energy storage seems like what is needed. Plugin hybrids, if they become a big part of
the transportation sector might act as storage when idle. Will every parking spot have a grid connection and car owners get paid a fee
if they allow their batteries to be drawn down a bit on a hot cloudy day? Does industry start to schedule power use according the weather?
What would this do to the traditional idea of a production line? Low energy use work in some periods and high energy use work in others?
If every substation stored three days of power, could the whole grid be based on renewables?
So, I'm hopeful Citizenre will get us into this interesting territory quickly. I'd like to know what happens.
You can read the division of liability in the contract which is available through any of the links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html. Basically, if the system causes
damage then the company is responsible. If the system is damaged then the home owner is responsible. If the
home owner's insurance won't cover this there will be an option to get additional insurance. We're getting
a variety of responses from insurance companies on what they will cover. Mine in Maryland says it covers only
fire, explosion and theft while the same company in Illinois covers everything but flood and nuclear incident.
More work is needed on this issue.
Citizenre offers service where there is annual net metering. If you feel that there has been an error and it is offering service under
other conditions, please let me know. I often have to tell potential customers that the company can not help them because what their
utility calls net metering is not the annual kind where service is offered. It is true that some of the caps on net metering capacity are
very low. New Jersey has no cap and there are other states as well.
Well, I think Citizenre represents available capital stepping in. The cut on where the systems are offered is when the utility charges
less than 7 cents per kWh. The offer is to rent at the same rate that the local utility charges. This offer is good for sales and thus
good for profitability on the volume side. I would expect that other companies will try to undercut Citizenre in it's most profitable
markets. Having fixed duration contracts helps with that aspect since a customer has to see at least a security deposit's worth of advantage
to switch and also has to overcome a reluctance to break a deal. These are all pretty good questions. It just seems to me that
this particular company has chosen this particular stratagy and others may work as well.
Actually, system capacities are adjusted according to the renter's use patterns. As a part of this, the degradation with time is easily
managed.
There are a number of market issues but is seems to me that going from less than 1% to 20% of the electric power market can happen without
reengineering the grid. If you think about it, residential solar is a good method of postponing grid capacity upgrades since it comes in
at peak demand at the the point of delivery. You can see some discussion of the post 20% issues at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/why-renewables -displace-nukes-first.html
Getting low cost long term purchase agreements for soalr grade silicon is tough for the next couple of years. Getting metalurgical
grade silicon is easy and cheap, but it then as to be refined, as I said.
Actually, Citizenre only does business in states that have net metering. This is a kWh for kWh trade sustained over a year. The company
wants to be sure you don't over produce (over a year) so that you do not have to pay retail and get paid what ever the utility thinks it can
get away with. Some utilites actually confiscate the extra power. This is explained in more detail at any of the links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html though there is system maintainance going on just now so waith just a bit.
Because the systems are monitored for billing, this is a wrinkle that is not off-the-shelf. Thus there will be some beta systems
to help debug the billing code before regular installs get going. But, if you want fully mass produced stuff, you'll need to wait
for mass production.
The way I've costed out a system, I don't think I could make that kind of profit if I included the batteries. My estimate has me
breaking even with 3% credit, no inflation or incentives and no batteries. Considering how bad I am at turning in rebates on electronics, I'd have to
be very disciplined to make something of the renewable energy credits.
To me, the question boils down to how do I get off fossil fuels sooner. If I'm not borrowing for solar, that frees up credit for geothermal and a plugin hybrid. The latter may address the battery issue
while serving a different primary purpose.
No, this is actually a rental. If you break the contract, you lose your security deposit and that is it. The company can still make money
with the system sitting on another roof. The contact does have a lot to it though. You can read it by clicking on any of the links at
http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html and clicking "Reserve your System."
Yup, West Virginia just got with the program, nine more to go. Some states have increadibly low caps on net metering capacity (0.2% of 1998
peak for Maryland).
I remember looking at your blog a while back. The trouble is that you are assuming the price owing to scarcity is the cost. The estimated
cost per peak watt for Citizenre is $1.53. This makes the model profitable above 7 cents per kWh as your calculation shows. I think you
had breakeven at $2. If you think about this in the context of the industry world wide, especially new plants in China, this makes a lot of
sense. The suppliers of machinery for those plants are also suppliers for Citizenre. Also, take a look at this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/m oney/2007/02/19/ccview19.xml. Crossover at
wholesale may not be too far off either.
http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ is a nonprofit that is making it quite worthwhile to buy solar. But, scarcity is making panels expensive,
so to work at the price point of Citizenre, you need to control your own supply, which takes more money than a slow build out can manage.
The sales approach of Citizenre ensures that the factory production will be presold. This is important because an idle factory increases
costs.
You can access the contract by clicking "Reserve Your System" on my home page. You'll see that you are responsible for paying for all the power
the system produces. This works out because the systems are only rented where there are net metering laws. This makes the transaction with the utility in kWhs not cash. I think you are thinking of a dual meter arrangement.
I've signed up for a system, so yes I'll be paying the company money. But, my rate is 9.8 cents per kWh and I avoid a 2.1 cents per kWh
distribution charge so I actually start out save about 17% from what I'd pay the utility.
In my sales activity, I have not been asked to pay anything. I have advertized a little, but this has payed for itself in terms of sales.
It is true, that those who work longer at this will make more money than those who work for a shorter period. In the bible story, all the laborers are payed the same if they came early or late, but this is to make a point. It is more usual to make more if you work more. I've also put some effort into training other people and I think I may profit from this if I've been any good at it. You can see the compensation at http://www.powur.com/mdsolar.
The $3-4 cost per peak watt with present panels is driven now by scarcity of solar grade silicon and smaller scale less efficient production.
The company expect a cost near $1.53 per peak watt and an energy return on energy in in about one year. This comes from scale and producing
their own silicon. You can see that this is pretty much on the trend identified here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/m oney/2007/02/19/ccview19.xml.
The ownership of the systems stays with the company, so recievers would be collecting them, or the bill in the worst case.
The roof, shading factors, past electric usage all go into the system design. Under the 25 year contacts, there is one free deinstall-reinstall in case you need to move or reroof.
Installs are performed by franchises. These are brick and mortar. The network marketing is for sales. It is working as well.
These systems are only available where there is net metering. You use up kWh credits when the weather is cloudy that you build up
when the weather is fair.
The amount of roof the system needs depends on how much electricity you use. The panel configuration is still not set but they will
be 15% efficient. So, you can take 340 W/m^2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation day night average mutiply by 0.15
and get about 50 W/m^2 out. For a 1000 kWh/mo bill you can work out that you use 1.4 kW on average so you need about 28 m^2 of panels,
about 5 meters square. The tilt and orientation of your roof is also important and the amount of annual cloud cover. Ground mounted systems are also offered.
You can find out more following links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html
This works really well in North Carolina where http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ pays a very high premium for solar power. You could
probably realize a 10% return. Elsewhere, it is an inflation tracking investment.
You are responsible for buying all the power the system produces but you can fix the per kWh rate for up to 25 years. The rate is
what you pay now to your utility. Look at the map on one of the sales sights linked at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html to check the rate against your bill. If you are a Baltimore
Gas and Electric customer, you'll see that you'll save about 30%, but that is only through Feb. 28. All the rates move to 2006 rates
on March 1. BGE has just been rasing its rates quickly so you're seeing the lag as the company tries to track those changes.
This works under net metering, so it is not really a matter of running out of electricity. There is no storage in these systems except
that provided by the grid and its responsiveness to changing loads. Net metering runs over a year, so an unusually cloudy year could
affect revenues, but there are 40 states with net metering laws, so it would have to be cloudy all year everywhere for this to be a
problem.
Slashdot Mirror
Accelerated depreciation is suppose to have some tax advantages I think. That stuff is beyond me. Ask Olero.
On the other hand NJ is not a small market and if Citizenre puts NJ ahead of the game, other states will get rid of their caps as well. The real limit comes from the intermittency of renewable energy which has to be compensated for with on demand generation. Solar tends to match peak demand pretty well so it can fill in pretty well, but most people pick a figure of 20% before things have to be done differently.
I'm quite interested in the post 20% situation. Energy storage seems like what is needed. Plugin hybrids, if they become a big part of the transportation sector might act as storage when idle. Will every parking spot have a grid connection and car owners get paid a fee if they allow their batteries to be drawn down a bit on a hot cloudy day? Does industry start to schedule power use according the weather? What would this do to the traditional idea of a production line? Low energy use work in some periods and high energy use work in others? If every substation stored three days of power, could the whole grid be based on renewables?
So, I'm hopeful Citizenre will get us into this interesting territory quickly. I'd like to know what happens.
You can read the division of liability in the contract which is available through any of the links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html. Basically, if the system causes
damage then the company is responsible. If the system is damaged then the home owner is responsible. If the
home owner's insurance won't cover this there will be an option to get additional insurance. We're getting
a variety of responses from insurance companies on what they will cover. Mine in Maryland says it covers only
fire, explosion and theft while the same company in Illinois covers everything but flood and nuclear incident.
More work is needed on this issue.
Citizenre offers service where there is annual net metering. If you feel that there has been an error and it is offering service under other conditions, please let me know. I often have to tell potential customers that the company can not help them because what their utility calls net metering is not the annual kind where service is offered. It is true that some of the caps on net metering capacity are very low. New Jersey has no cap and there are other states as well.
Well, I think Citizenre represents available capital stepping in. The cut on where the systems are offered is when the utility charges less than 7 cents per kWh. The offer is to rent at the same rate that the local utility charges. This offer is good for sales and thus good for profitability on the volume side. I would expect that other companies will try to undercut Citizenre in it's most profitable markets. Having fixed duration contracts helps with that aspect since a customer has to see at least a security deposit's worth of advantage to switch and also has to overcome a reluctance to break a deal. These are all pretty good questions. It just seems to me that this particular company has chosen this particular stratagy and others may work as well.
Well, it works out for the renter because they save money and it works out for the company because the renter will want to rent.
Actually, system capacities are adjusted according to the renter's use patterns. As a part of this, the degradation with time is easily managed.
s -displace-nukes-first.html
There are a number of market issues but is seems to me that going from less than 1% to 20% of the electric power market can happen without reengineering the grid. If you think about it, residential solar is a good method of postponing grid capacity upgrades since it comes in at peak demand at the the point of delivery. You can see some discussion of the post 20% issues at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/why-renewable
Getting low cost long term purchase agreements for soalr grade silicon is tough for the next couple of years. Getting metalurgical grade silicon is easy and cheap, but it then as to be refined, as I said.
Actually, Citizenre only does business in states that have net metering. This is a kWh for kWh trade sustained over a year. The company wants to be sure you don't over produce (over a year) so that you do not have to pay retail and get paid what ever the utility thinks it can get away with. Some utilites actually confiscate the extra power. This is explained in more detail at any of the links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html though there is system maintainance going on just now so waith just a bit.
Because the systems are monitored for billing, this is a wrinkle that is not off-the-shelf. Thus there will be some beta systems to help debug the billing code before regular installs get going. But, if you want fully mass produced stuff, you'll need to wait for mass production.
The way I've costed out a system, I don't think I could make that kind of profit if I included the batteries. My estimate has me breaking even with 3% credit, no inflation or incentives and no batteries. Considering how bad I am at turning in rebates on electronics, I'd have to be very disciplined to make something of the renewable energy credits.
To me, the question boils down to how do I get off fossil fuels sooner. If I'm not borrowing for solar, that frees up credit for geothermal and a plugin hybrid. The latter may address the battery issue while serving a different primary purpose.
No, this is actually a rental. If you break the contract, you lose your security deposit and that is it. The company can still make money with the system sitting on another roof. The contact does have a lot to it though. You can read it by clicking on any of the links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html and clicking "Reserve your System."
Yup, West Virginia just got with the program, nine more to go. Some states have increadibly low caps on net metering capacity (0.2% of 1998 peak for Maryland).
I remember looking at your blog a while back. The trouble is that you are assuming the price owing to scarcity is the cost. The estimated cost per peak watt for Citizenre is $1.53. This makes the model profitable above 7 cents per kWh as your calculation shows. I think you had breakeven at $2. If you think about this in the context of the industry world wide, especially new plants in China, this makes a lot of sense. The suppliers of machinery for those plants are also suppliers for Citizenre. Also, take a look at this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/m oney/2007/02/19/ccview19.xml. Crossover at
wholesale may not be too far off either.
http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ is a nonprofit that is making it quite worthwhile to buy solar. But, scarcity is making panels expensive, so to work at the price point of Citizenre, you need to control your own supply, which takes more money than a slow build out can manage. The sales approach of Citizenre ensures that the factory production will be presold. This is important because an idle factory increases costs.
You can access the contract by clicking "Reserve Your System" on my home page. You'll see that you are responsible for paying for all the power the system produces. This works out because the systems are only rented where there are net metering laws. This makes the transaction with the utility in kWhs not cash. I think you are thinking of a dual meter arrangement.
I've signed up for a system, so yes I'll be paying the company money. But, my rate is 9.8 cents per kWh and I avoid a 2.1 cents per kWh distribution charge so I actually start out save about 17% from what I'd pay the utility.
In my sales activity, I have not been asked to pay anything. I have advertized a little, but this has payed for itself in terms of sales.
It is true, that those who work longer at this will make more money than those who work for a shorter period. In the bible story, all the laborers are payed the same if they came early or late, but this is to make a point. It is more usual to make more if you work more. I've also put some effort into training other people and I think I may profit from this if I've been any good at it. You can see the compensation at http://www.powur.com/mdsolar.
If a Citizenre associate does not get back with you in 24 hours, you are passed to one who will.
That's the one.
The $3-4 cost per peak watt with present panels is driven now by scarcity of solar grade silicon and smaller scale less efficient production. The company expect a cost near $1.53 per peak watt and an energy return on energy in in about one year. This comes from scale and producing their own silicon. You can see that this is pretty much on the trend identified here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/m oney/2007/02/19/ccview19.xml.
Yes. On slashdot, I send to the list of slashdot users who are doing this at my blog http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html
The ownership of the systems stays with the company, so recievers would be collecting them, or the bill in the worst case.s -selling-solar.html
The roof, shading factors, past electric usage all go into the system design. Under the 25 year contacts, there is one free deinstall-reinstall in case you need to move or reroof.
Installs are performed by franchises. These are brick and mortar. The network marketing is for sales. It is working as well.
These systems are only available where there is net metering. You use up kWh credits when the weather is cloudy that you build up when the weather is fair.
The amount of roof the system needs depends on how much electricity you use. The panel configuration is still not set but they will be 15% efficient. So, you can take 340 W/m^2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation day night average mutiply by 0.15 and get about 50 W/m^2 out. For a 1000 kWh/mo bill you can work out that you use 1.4 kW on average so you need about 28 m^2 of panels, about 5 meters square. The tilt and orientation of your roof is also important and the amount of annual cloud cover. Ground mounted systems are also offered.
You can find out more following links at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-user
This works really well in North Carolina where http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ pays a very high premium for solar power. You could probably realize a 10% return. Elsewhere, it is an inflation tracking investment.
You are responsible for buying all the power the system produces but you can fix the per kWh rate for up to 25 years. The rate is what you pay now to your utility. Look at the map on one of the sales sights linked at http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html to check the rate against your bill. If you are a Baltimore
Gas and Electric customer, you'll see that you'll save about 30%, but that is only through Feb. 28. All the rates move to 2006 rates
on March 1. BGE has just been rasing its rates quickly so you're seeing the lag as the company tries to track those changes.
This works under net metering, so it is not really a matter of running out of electricity. There is no storage in these systems except that provided by the grid and its responsiveness to changing loads. Net metering runs over a year, so an unusually cloudy year could affect revenues, but there are 40 states with net metering laws, so it would have to be cloudy all year everywhere for this to be a problem.