Oh, sure. But I've known enough lawyers who scoff at all sorts of contracts. Like rules, they seem made to be broken.
You're probably right, though. Perhaps my overzealousness to get an early post and mod points blinded me to the apparent simplicity of my contribution.
I'm sorry, but as a person whose business it is to know money, this is repeatedly the main factor. If you are in a well-to-do family, you have more opportunities than others, you know how to act around rich people, and you have the contacts.
I've also met people who have pulled themselves up from poverty to success, however they are very few and far between, especially compared to the many people I've met who are lucky enough to be born into money and opportunity.
I am guilty of this to an extent. My family is on the cusp of the middle/lower middle class, as my dad's been very sick for about 15 years. However, he's really smart and has a financial planning business he's cobbled together despite all his illnesses. If it weren't for my being brought up in that environment and having the opportunity to be mentored by him, I would probably be working a crappy tech job that I don't like, or worse.
It IS about hard work. It is also about recognizing opportunities and capitalizing on them. However, in order to be motivated to work hard, in order to know how to work SMART and not just HARD, in order to have the knowledge to capitalize on opportunities, having money is key.
I'm sorry to say it, but I see it all the time and it's made me a bit cynical. On the other hand, it does make me want to work harder to make a better life for someone if I should decide to have kids.
Money doesn't make you happy, but it sure smooths out the road to that goal.
Each year I go to one of the most popular riffing festivals: B-Fest! It's held at Northwestern University near Chicago, and it's a BLAST! 24 hours of a whole theater FULL of people riffing on stuff. There's the annual Plan 9 showing, and all sorts of shenanigans.
Riffing is alive and well, and not just being done by the MST3K crew. Rifftrax is even offering people their own chance to riff through iRiffs.
I feel compelled to come on and say that sounds like a really good answer. I've been known to be a bit of a class warrior, but that does help put it in perspective and empathize. If I could mod you up (since I've already posted) I would. Thanks.
I am my own boss (or, we are our own bosses) Financial Planning.
There's no ceiling, but there's CERTAINLY a lot of overhead!:)
I went to school for comp sci, but determined I wanted something that could make more of a difference in peoples' lives. It sure is tough, but it's rewarding.
I read that as "China Defends Internet Addiction". I hear they also have a problem with youth in asia, but I've been assured that the government has the problem well in hand.
Not to get too far off topic, but I am in a similar position with debt.
Although my dad and I own a business, between all the debts they and I have racked up (medical, educational mainly) we are strapped to the max. One day I'll get out form under it (one month at time), and once I do I'll be living alright, but you're right: debt is an industry, and it really is terrifying.
those linemen, plumbers, and construction workers will probably not ever make any more (adjusted for inflation)than they're making now. The difference between having a college degree and going straight to work is that there is often a ceiling to jobs that require no degree.
Maybe it does make sense for some people to do manual sorts of jobs, but for those just looking to make money right away they can be sorely disappointed in the long run. Wouldn't it be better to get a higher education to open at least a few occupational doors?
You say you were lucky, being able to funciton on very little sleep, for instance. You're saying your situation is the exception to the rule. I'm just trying to point out that many people simply cannot perform these sorts of things. I literally go nuts after about a month of 5-6 hours sleep and stop being able to physically function, for instance.
In defense of college: For most of us, we've spent our entire lives in school, so the next step is college. It's simply expected of all the people that went to my high school.
To piss off the non-collegiates: I know a fair number of people who never went to college. Many of them are snobby about how they didn't get "taken in by it" or that they're "just not college material". Incidentally, many of them could contribute A LOT to an academic setting. I also hear many parents and grandparents say their kids aren't college material. This trend bothers me. How else can people get a solid grounding in a wide range of the basics that underpin our ability to both learn and critically reason? High school helps a little, but falls short imo.
Although I am saddled with a fair amount of debt,about 20K, my college experience was useful. No, I didn't learn a bunch of real world skills (was in Comp Sci, and looking back it would ahve helped a lot to learn real world skills, though I took a lot of different other types of classes). I did, however, learn a lot about interacting with people(this email certainly shows!), understanding HOW to learn LOTS of different types of information, and most importantly I learned many different points of view.
What I find with non college-goers sometimes is a certain ignorance or narrow-mindedness. Their way, much of the time, seems to be the only way and all others be damned. Some of these people have had success with their jobs, though many I know are still working at Kinko's or Jimmy John's ten years later. Would the non-college achievers be better off if they had gone to college? I don't know.
I know I've written something that in itself is a bit narrow and probably sounds ignorant (I'm really fishing for other viewpoints, in a hamfisted, non-college kind of way), so I have a creeping feeling that I've shot this part of the discussion in the foot.
I may have wasted a LOT of time in college, yes. Was it a worthwhile transition between school and life instead of just being thrown to the wolves in the real world? Did it teach me MANY ideas that I've used to further my career and relations with others that I NEVER would have learned without college? Did it teach me an appreciation for all the different types of people who make the world function? Yes, yes, and yes.
Encouraging people not to go to college because it has nothing to offer seems like telling people not to get their driver's license because they're 16 and where do they need to go at this age anyway? It's very shortsighted in most instances, I feel. There's your car analogy!
Oh, and when I went in there they played the most god-awful music I'd heard in years. It seems obvious that since the store is closing, the employees, disgruntled after months of hard labor in an electronics chain, put together the most heinous soundtrack available, repleat with Whitney Houston, Will Smith, and other mega-cheese.
I got a little laugh out of it, but the whole situation was still mildly nauseating.
Even after a 10 or 20% discount, I can *still* get stuff cheaper online, even after shipping! They were never that great on prices, and their selection seemed lacking. The shelves are always disorganized in the software and music sections so I can't find much there, either.
I know a metallurgist who has developed a cheap method of growing diamond onto ferrous surfaces. Is this a possible method for growing diamond on non-ferrous surfaces?
I know there are a lot of jokes floating around here, but could the applications be useful? Can we grow diamond ball-bearings or something? Ideas?
Come on, this is Slashdot. We joke around, but SOMEBODY must know some uses for this idea.
Anyway, from what I've seen of Mr. Joy, I would count him as one of the LAST people I'd consider for a National CTO.
Who I would choose? I don't know, but not him.
When it comes to rules demanding people remain absolutely calm and cool, I find that people in a power position tend to find ways of justifying their own opinions and ways of treating people, and when others truly take offense at something they should be offended at the peron(s) in power simply lock them out by justifying that their own moral superiority because they remained calm.
Being nice can be one thing, but to extirpate human emotion seems like a dangerous thing (can you say corporate america?) abused by those who wish to remain in power. That's been my real-world experience, less so on the internet. Just an opinion with the usual holes in it.
Well I agree. I just played this clip for my girlfriend the other day to express to her what I think needs to happen.
I think people need to get angry. What other way is there? Stay warm, fat, and complacent? We need reason and debate, but first the people in power need to get scared that they can't hold on to that power unless they fly straight.
Yeah, my name is David. I'm mad as hell about a lot of stuff. I offer reasonable respect to people and don't put up with moronic crap, and I don't so much care whether people think it's wrong or insensitive. I'm a human being, dammit, and I refuse to take inhumane, degrading bullshit from people. I took enough of that from my girlfriend in college to last me the rest of my life, so no more.
I listened to Chicaog Public Radio the other night. They had on Frank Shafer (sp?), who together with his dad Francis make up about 10% of the reason Bush is in office (neo cons, religion, etc etc) He apologized on national radio. He also explained, as someone who is an evangelist, that Palin, along with Bushie Boy, really ARE bent on apocalypse. Palin's Assembly of God? Yeah, Frank and his dad just shook their heads when this splinter group of a splinter group of a splinter group went to Alaska, claiming it would be a haven when the End Times come. These people want to defend the Jews so Christ can come down from heaven, kill all the Jews, and allow Christians into heaven.
Frank Shafer is part of the fundamentalist elite, and he went on and explained in explicit (though being as nice as he could) terms that these people are out of their minds. Nuts. He siad he doesn't think bringing about the apocalypse is something that most Americans think is in the general U.S. population's interest.
I really think that if people heard this right from some of the people who got this right-wing religous BS started back in the 60s that they would hurriedly change their votes and their attitudes to realize the kinds of nutjobs we've put into office (religous as well as corporate).
There tend to be a LOT of people responsible. If people know that their ass is on the line if they run the company into the ground (this includes executive compensation laws that could have mandated bankruptcy clauses) then people would be a lot more vigilant. One person does not run a company into the ground, it takes a lot of people to do that.
While I agree that there are people who are hurt, it's the same as voting: No system works for everyone all the time. However, doing the most good for the majority is the hope. It is each person's responsibility to know the company they are working for. Also, pensions used to help guarantee that even if things went under people had something to show for their hard work.
Also, any news laws ought to (in my view) extend to Unions, which have also been a major burden on industry and are helping to break the remaining corporations. I realize this may sound like blasphemy, but they have made the system wasteful and woefully inefficient that unbalances the need to protect workers' rights. If there were bankruptcy laws built into Union contracts as well, Union workers would have a personal incentive to make the company efficient and productive so that they continue to receive benefits.
I'm no economist, but I do see how these things effect people every day, from janitors all the way up to executives at Fortune 500 companies. The warning klaxons have been SCREAMING red alert for decades, but not enough people seem to want to take on the task of building something better. That would come from a big intellectual, cultural, and social shift in America that is not likely to happen soon (though we can hope).
I was with you in some respects until the "rich persons make themselves" statement. As a person whose job it is to know and manage wealth, I can say that statement is complete bullshit. Maybe that could be said of the last generation, but out of the maybe 50 or so people I know who I consider to be "wealthy" (net worth in excess of about probably 5 million), only one of them is self-made. The rest were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
Wealth begets wealth. When people see one is rich, when one is brought up around money, one inherently knows (or should know) how keep and grow that. Also, there are many more opportunities and connections.
Frankly? It makes me sick. America is the land of opportunity, but only if you're willing to sell your soul a dozen times over and screw people over more than the next guy without getting caught and while getting others to smile about it. This comes from a bit of a class warrior, so please take it with a grain of salt.
So you're saying that you're ok with the way things are?
My father pays $20K a year for health benefits, and that's a cheap plan he kept from years ago he got to take with him from a job.
So you'd be ok with the entire world economy grinding to a screeching halt when the largest banking and insurance instituions fail?
All I see are republicans proposing legislation, letting democrats be sensible in realizing it's necessary, then turning the tables by opposing it so they can place blame. It's like the little kid next door who goes and convinces his friend to break windows in the neighborhood, then when the the kid does break the windows, the first kid turns around and denies the whole thing.
It was a conservative talking point designed to shoot down the guy. Al Gore never claimed he invented the internet. Get over it. It's dead. Yes, someone licked all the red off my candy last night, so I apologize for any troll-ness.
However, there CAN NOT be a double standard. If the gov. is going to be hands off on the market, they can't come in and save things when they crash.
The government should set the rules, then let the games begin. If the corps don't play well by those rules and they fail and take a bunch of people with them then it ought to happen. People will learn to be more cautious and take more personal responsibility. As I've said before, I *am* a financial guy, and personal responsibility seems in short supply these days.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, sure. But I've known enough lawyers who scoff at all sorts of contracts. Like rules, they seem made to be broken.
You're probably right, though. Perhaps my overzealousness to get an early post and mod points blinded me to the apparent simplicity of my contribution.
What's to stop them from turning around and blackmailing these huge companies once they've amassed all these patents?
They must be getting a really nice chunk of change.
THIS.
I'm sorry, but as a person whose business it is to know money, this is repeatedly the main factor. If you are in a well-to-do family, you have more opportunities than others, you know how to act around rich people, and you have the contacts.
I've also met people who have pulled themselves up from poverty to success, however they are very few and far between, especially compared to the many people I've met who are lucky enough to be born into money and opportunity.
I am guilty of this to an extent. My family is on the cusp of the middle/lower middle class, as my dad's been very sick for about 15 years. However, he's really smart and has a financial planning business he's cobbled together despite all his illnesses. If it weren't for my being brought up in that environment and having the opportunity to be mentored by him, I would probably be working a crappy tech job that I don't like, or worse.
It IS about hard work. It is also about recognizing opportunities and capitalizing on them. However, in order to be motivated to work hard, in order to know how to work SMART and not just HARD, in order to have the knowledge to capitalize on opportunities, having money is key.
I'm sorry to say it, but I see it all the time and it's made me a bit cynical. On the other hand, it does make me want to work harder to make a better life for someone if I should decide to have kids.
Money doesn't make you happy, but it sure smooths out the road to that goal.
Just to chime in:
Each year I go to one of the most popular riffing festivals: B-Fest! It's held at Northwestern University near Chicago, and it's a BLAST! 24 hours of a whole theater FULL of people riffing on stuff. There's the annual Plan 9 showing, and all sorts of shenanigans.
Riffing is alive and well, and not just being done by the MST3K crew. Rifftrax is even offering people their own chance to riff through iRiffs.
I feel compelled to come on and say that sounds like a really good answer. I've been known to be a bit of a class warrior, but that does help put it in perspective and empathize. If I could mod you up (since I've already posted) I would. Thanks.
I am my own boss (or, we are our own bosses) Financial Planning.
There's no ceiling, but there's CERTAINLY a lot of overhead! :)
I went to school for comp sci, but determined I wanted something that could make more of a difference in peoples' lives. It sure is tough, but it's rewarding.
I read that as "China Defends Internet Addiction".
I hear they also have a problem with youth in asia, but I've been assured that the government has the problem well in hand.
Not to get too far off topic, but I am in a similar position with debt.
Although my dad and I own a business, between all the debts they and I have racked up (medical, educational mainly) we are strapped to the max. One day I'll get out form under it (one month at time), and once I do I'll be living alright, but you're right: debt is an industry, and it really is terrifying.
those linemen, plumbers, and construction workers will probably not ever make any more (adjusted for inflation)than they're making now. The difference between having a college degree and going straight to work is that there is often a ceiling to jobs that require no degree.
Maybe it does make sense for some people to do manual sorts of jobs, but for those just looking to make money right away they can be sorely disappointed in the long run. Wouldn't it be better to get a higher education to open at least a few occupational doors?
You say you were lucky, being able to funciton on very little sleep, for instance. You're saying your situation is the exception to the rule. I'm just trying to point out that many people simply cannot perform these sorts of things. I literally go nuts after about a month of 5-6 hours sleep and stop being able to physically function, for instance.
In defense of college: For most of us, we've spent our entire lives in school, so the next step is college. It's simply expected of all the people that went to my high school.
To piss off the non-collegiates: I know a fair number of people who never went to college. Many of them are snobby about how they didn't get "taken in by it" or that they're "just not college material". Incidentally, many of them could contribute A LOT to an academic setting.
I also hear many parents and grandparents say their kids aren't college material. This trend bothers me. How else can people get a solid grounding in a wide range of the basics that underpin our ability to both learn and critically reason? High school helps a little, but falls short imo.
Although I am saddled with a fair amount of debt,about 20K, my college experience was useful. No, I didn't learn a bunch of real world skills (was in Comp Sci, and looking back it would ahve helped a lot to learn real world skills, though I took a lot of different other types of classes). I did, however, learn a lot about interacting with people(this email certainly shows!), understanding HOW to learn LOTS of different types of information, and most importantly I learned many different points of view.
What I find with non college-goers sometimes is a certain ignorance or narrow-mindedness. Their way, much of the time, seems to be the only way and all others be damned. Some of these people have had success with their jobs, though many I know are still working at Kinko's or Jimmy John's ten years later. Would the non-college achievers be better off if they had gone to college? I don't know.
I know I've written something that in itself is a bit narrow and probably sounds ignorant (I'm really fishing for other viewpoints, in a hamfisted, non-college kind of way), so I have a creeping feeling that I've shot this part of the discussion in the foot.
I may have wasted a LOT of time in college, yes. Was it a worthwhile transition between school and life instead of just being thrown to the wolves in the real world? Did it teach me MANY ideas that I've used to further my career and relations with others that I NEVER would have learned without college? Did it teach me an appreciation for all the different types of people who make the world function? Yes, yes, and yes.
Encouraging people not to go to college because it has nothing to offer seems like telling people not to get their driver's license because they're 16 and where do they need to go at this age anyway? It's very shortsighted in most instances, I feel. There's your car analogy!
Oh, and when I went in there they played the most god-awful music I'd heard in years. It seems obvious that since the store is closing, the employees, disgruntled after months of hard labor in an electronics chain, put together the most heinous soundtrack available, repleat with Whitney Houston, Will Smith, and other mega-cheese.
I got a little laugh out of it, but the whole situation was still mildly nauseating.
...but they're not sales.
Even after a 10 or 20% discount, I can *still* get stuff cheaper online, even after shipping!
They were never that great on prices, and their selection seemed lacking. The shelves are always disorganized in the software and music sections so I can't find much there, either.
Why would I want to shop at their stores?
What are the applications?
I know a metallurgist who has developed a cheap method of growing diamond onto ferrous surfaces. Is this a possible method for growing diamond on non-ferrous surfaces?
I know there are a lot of jokes floating around here, but could the applications be useful? Can we grow diamond ball-bearings or something? Ideas?
Come on, this is Slashdot. We joke around, but SOMEBODY must know some uses for this idea.
Yes! That's exactly what I thought when I first read that Bill joy might be chosen.
http://seclists.org/politech/2000/Oct/0064.html
I thought of that article from 2000. I remember taping it on my door in college and having some dipshit frat boy eventually rip it off.
Anyway, from what I've seen of Mr. Joy, I would count him as one of the LAST people I'd consider for a National CTO. Who I would choose? I don't know, but not him.
I feel the need to disagree.
When it comes to rules demanding people remain absolutely calm and cool, I find that people in a power position tend to find ways of justifying their own opinions and ways of treating people, and when others truly take offense at something they should be offended at the peron(s) in power simply lock them out by justifying that their own moral superiority because they remained calm.
Being nice can be one thing, but to extirpate human emotion seems like a dangerous thing (can you say corporate america?) abused by those who wish to remain in power. That's been my real-world experience, less so on the internet. Just an opinion with the usual holes in it.
Well I agree. I just played this clip for my girlfriend the other day to express to her what I think needs to happen.
I think people need to get angry. What other way is there? Stay warm, fat, and complacent? We need reason and debate, but first the people in power need to get scared that they can't hold on to that power unless they fly straight.
Yeah, my name is David. I'm mad as hell about a lot of stuff. I offer reasonable respect to people and don't put up with moronic crap, and I don't so much care whether people think it's wrong or insensitive. I'm a human being, dammit, and I refuse to take inhumane, degrading bullshit from people. I took enough of that from my girlfriend in college to last me the rest of my life, so no more.
That's my story, slashdot karma be damned.
I listened to Chicaog Public Radio the other night. They had on Frank Shafer (sp?), who together with his dad Francis make up about 10% of the reason Bush is in office (neo cons, religion, etc etc) He apologized on national radio. He also explained, as someone who is an evangelist, that Palin, along with Bushie Boy, really ARE bent on apocalypse. Palin's Assembly of God? Yeah, Frank and his dad just shook their heads when this splinter group of a splinter group of a splinter group went to Alaska, claiming it would be a haven when the End Times come. These people want to defend the Jews so Christ can come down from heaven, kill all the Jews, and allow Christians into heaven.
Frank Shafer is part of the fundamentalist elite, and he went on and explained in explicit (though being as nice as he could) terms that these people are out of their minds. Nuts. He siad he doesn't think bringing about the apocalypse is something that most Americans think is in the general U.S. population's interest.
I really think that if people heard this right from some of the people who got this right-wing religous BS started back in the 60s that they would hurriedly change their votes and their attitudes to realize the kinds of nutjobs we've put into office (religous as well as corporate).
Parent:"...more Iraqi civilians will die from secretarian fights than civilians that were killed by US soldiers."
Yeah, those Sunni Elite Administrative Assistants are deadly!
I sure thought that said "IPhone Free Wife" at first and thought,"Oh what a relief! Finally an Apple product for the 21st Century husband!"
There tend to be a LOT of people responsible. If people know that their ass is on the line if they run the company into the ground (this includes executive compensation laws that could have mandated bankruptcy clauses) then people would be a lot more vigilant. One person does not run a company into the ground, it takes a lot of people to do that.
While I agree that there are people who are hurt, it's the same as voting: No system works for everyone all the time. However, doing the most good for the majority is the hope. It is each person's responsibility to know the company they are working for. Also, pensions used to help guarantee that even if things went under people had something to show for their hard work.
Also, any news laws ought to (in my view) extend to Unions, which have also been a major burden on industry and are helping to break the remaining corporations. I realize this may sound like blasphemy, but they have made the system wasteful and woefully inefficient that unbalances the need to protect workers' rights. If there were bankruptcy laws built into Union contracts as well, Union workers would have a personal incentive to make the company efficient and productive so that they continue to receive benefits.
I'm no economist, but I do see how these things effect people every day, from janitors all the way up to executives at Fortune 500 companies. The warning klaxons have been SCREAMING red alert for decades, but not enough people seem to want to take on the task of building something better. That would come from a big intellectual, cultural, and social shift in America that is not likely to happen soon (though we can hope).
Your mileage may vary.
Yeah, I understand, and I'm sure others do too. Call it a case of the Mondays, but on Wednesday.
It was funny, but I was being too much of a fuddy-duddy to laugh.
I was with you in some respects until the "rich persons make themselves" statement. As a person whose job it is to know and manage wealth, I can say that statement is complete bullshit. Maybe that could be said of the last generation, but out of the maybe 50 or so people I know who I consider to be "wealthy" (net worth in excess of about probably 5 million), only one of them is self-made. The rest were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
Wealth begets wealth. When people see one is rich, when one is brought up around money, one inherently knows (or should know) how keep and grow that. Also, there are many more opportunities and connections.
Frankly? It makes me sick. America is the land of opportunity, but only if you're willing to sell your soul a dozen times over and screw people over more than the next guy without getting caught and while getting others to smile about it. This comes from a bit of a class warrior, so please take it with a grain of salt.
So you're saying that you're ok with the way things are?
My father pays $20K a year for health benefits, and that's a cheap plan he kept from years ago he got to take with him from a job.
So you'd be ok with the entire world economy grinding to a screeching halt when the largest banking and insurance instituions fail?
All I see are republicans proposing legislation, letting democrats be sensible in realizing it's necessary, then turning the tables by opposing it so they can place blame. It's like the little kid next door who goes and convinces his friend to break windows in the neighborhood, then when the the kid does break the windows, the first kid turns around and denies the whole thing.
Hey, at least it's not a car analogy.
I'm sorry, I can't stand to see this statement again, joke or not.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
It was a conservative talking point designed to shoot down the guy. Al Gore never claimed he invented the internet. Get over it. It's dead. Yes, someone licked all the red off my candy last night, so I apologize for any troll-ness.
Ok.
However, there CAN NOT be a double standard. If the gov. is going to be hands off on the market, they can't come in and save things when they crash.
The government should set the rules, then let the games begin. If the corps don't play well by those rules and they fail and take a bunch of people with them then it ought to happen. People will learn to be more cautious and take more personal responsibility. As I've said before, I *am* a financial guy, and personal responsibility seems in short supply these days.