Actually, now that I think about it, read all of Deuteronomy (then Leviticus, then Exodus.. just read the whole old testament.) I think the rule is if you don't follow everything in there, exactly as it states, you are no better than the poor girl that got raped by a stranger or the woman who feared for her own life during a complicated pregnancy, and decided to have an abortion. That is all sins being equal. Which of course if you believe in that book they are. Also, no society as a whole will ever have to move in one direction, nor should they. Believe it or not everything has multiple view points.
'If your brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife tries to secretly entice you, telling you to go and worship other gods, gods of people living near you, or far from you, or anywhere on earth, do not listen to him. You must kill them. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow. 'Then the hands of all the people. You shall stone them to death.' -Deuteronomy 13:6-8
Tell me again what schizophrenic behavior is like?
I don't suggest anyone take things literally. I mean how many verses in the bible does it mention abortion and how many times does it mention taking care of the poor. (Abortion maybe once, taking care of the poor 3000-5000 roughly). Why haven't I heard any preachers talking about the hurricanes, terrorist attacks, etc. being caused by Americans not taking care of the poor people in the world. Why is it always about homosexuals and abortion?
When did this become a discussion about killing babies? Why do you suppose you know my stance on that? Oh I know because I'm atheist I must be into all kinds of immoral godless things. You got me pegged.. and every atheist reading this. The jig is up guys put down your slaughtered babies wipe the blood from your chin and get back to work...
I really don't see a point in reply to this ridiculous post. But I will suggest you read Deuteronomy 21:18-21. It's in there.
"Jesus changed everything in the old testament which includes "stoning""
Seems convenient that when society's moral code changes with time, reasons can be found to denounce or at least change God's words. (Maybe that is why the Bible was changed so much over the years). Or, maybe it's because our moral code never has and never will come from the Bible but from us deciding in our brains what is right and wrong.
I live what I consider a moral life not because somebody is watching. Again, I don't need to have the presence of another person, or God watching me to make me decide if I'm going to do something immoral or not. I have just figured out how much better my life is when I stick with positive actions. You might call that selfishness, since I'm doing something to make me feel good (or not bad) but how much less selfish is living a life in a way that will provide you with everlasting life in paradise.
If you want to find words to call things, you can call it Karma or whatever.. Call it Heightseiz, or Bleenjor if you want, whatever works for you... and the reason I don't kick an old lady in the neck (to unfortunately have to use my previous example) is because 1) It benefits nobody and 2) It actually harms someone. 3) It would make me feel extremely bad.. It doesn't take a Bible for me to realize I don't want to do that... and it has nothing to do with people or Gods watching.
Give me an example of an action you have done that doesn't involve selfishness on some level. I'm not saying you haven't.. I'm just saying that the only selfless act that can be done is one you were not aware that you did.
If you have been able to live a good moral life filled with happiness and joy, then I congratulate you. If you were only able to do so with religion then that is wonderful, whatever works for you. I'm just saying, please as a representative of the Christian faith especially, don't keep telling us that without God we can't live a moral life. I'm tired of hearing it. Just be happy that someone has found the way there, not what path they took to get there.
"science is basically defined to not be in conflict with faith."
Would this have anything to do with twisting, changing, or completely refusing to believe scientific evidence that would otherwise make faith hard to hold onto?
I think the argument can be made that religion has absolutely nothing to do with our morality. People have used the bible as a reason to justify many things our society today considers immoral.. bigotry, war, murder, and pretty much anything else immoral you can think of. If your moral code was taken literally from the bible how would you think we should treat my mother who has been married 3 times, or how should I be treated for being an atheist (when I was once a Christian), or what should happen to the all the slashdotters that have masturbated... Luckily for all of us our moral code does come from the bible because we would all justifiably be stoned to death in the town square for that one. If my father stoned me to death for straying from my faith how many people in his church would congratulate him for doing what God demanded in the Bible? (Maybe I don't want to know that answer)
I'm a moral person. In fact a couple of people that I have met in my life had assumed I was a religious person based on the way I treat people. Which is odd because some of the most immoral people I know consider themselves Christian. Religion didn't give me my moral code. My belief that life is better when you treat others and the world around me with respect gave me that.
For example, I'm am no more likely to go kick an old woman in the neck as any religious person. But how many religious people say it's because of their religion that they don't go kicking old women in the neck?
Maybe morality doesn't exist in the first place. Only selfishness. How many things do we do so we will feel good (for pleasing ourselves or our Gods)? How many things do we do so we won't feel bad? Is it morality or our desire to prefer feeling good over bad? Maybe our morality is embedded in our genetic material because living such a life is so beneficial to our social species' survival.
You do not have a monopoly on moral behavior. Some people grow out of the need to have the fear of an authority figure punishing us to keep us in line.
Does any of this matter really? Population, distance, size, etc. The point is, the United States use to be on top and now they are not. Why? What has changed? Why do we seem to be sucking it in every area imaginable, except in maybe military strength, bible thumping, reality TV, and infant deaths?
If only we could find technologies like this to spend 450 billion dollars on... then again maybe your right it's a pipe dream. Let's just use the money for a war in Iraq instead.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, now that I think about it, read all of Deuteronomy (then Leviticus, then Exodus.. just read the whole old testament.) I think the rule is if you don't follow everything in there, exactly as it states, you are no better than the poor girl that got raped by a stranger or the woman who feared for her own life during a complicated pregnancy, and decided to have an abortion. That is all sins being equal. Which of course if you believe in that book they are. Also, no society as a whole will ever have to move in one direction, nor should they. Believe it or not everything has multiple view points.
'If your brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife tries to secretly entice you, telling you to go and worship other gods, gods of people living near you, or far from you, or anywhere on earth, do not listen to him. You must kill them. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow. 'Then the hands of all the people. You shall stone them to death.'
-Deuteronomy 13:6-8
Tell me again what schizophrenic behavior is like?
I don't suggest anyone take things literally. I mean how many verses in the bible does it mention abortion and how many times does it mention taking care of the poor. (Abortion maybe once, taking care of the poor 3000-5000 roughly). Why haven't I heard any preachers talking about the hurricanes, terrorist attacks, etc. being caused by Americans not taking care of the poor people in the world. Why is it always about homosexuals and abortion?
So maybe microbial life on Mars? That's cool.
When did this become a discussion about killing babies? Why do you suppose you know my stance on that? Oh I know because I'm atheist I must be into all kinds of immoral godless things. You got me pegged.. and every atheist reading this. The jig is up guys put down your slaughtered babies wipe the blood from your chin and get back to work... I really don't see a point in reply to this ridiculous post. But I will suggest you read Deuteronomy 21:18-21. It's in there.
When exactly did I say that would imply that my moral code is based around what other people thought of me?
Seems convenient that when society's moral code changes with time, reasons can be found to denounce or at least change God's words. (Maybe that is why the Bible was changed so much over the years). Or, maybe it's because our moral code never has and never will come from the Bible but from us deciding in our brains what is right and wrong.
I live what I consider a moral life not because somebody is watching. Again, I don't need to have the presence of another person, or God watching me to make me decide if I'm going to do something immoral or not. I have just figured out how much better my life is when I stick with positive actions. You might call that selfishness, since I'm doing something to make me feel good (or not bad) but how much less selfish is living a life in a way that will provide you with everlasting life in paradise.
If you want to find words to call things, you can call it Karma or whatever.. Call it Heightseiz, or Bleenjor if you want, whatever works for you... and the reason I don't kick an old lady in the neck (to unfortunately have to use my previous example) is because 1) It benefits nobody and 2) It actually harms someone. 3) It would make me feel extremely bad.. It doesn't take a Bible for me to realize I don't want to do that... and it has nothing to do with people or Gods watching.
Give me an example of an action you have done that doesn't involve selfishness on some level. I'm not saying you haven't.. I'm just saying that the only selfless act that can be done is one you were not aware that you did.
If you have been able to live a good moral life filled with happiness and joy, then I congratulate you. If you were only able to do so with religion then that is wonderful, whatever works for you. I'm just saying, please as a representative of the Christian faith especially, don't keep telling us that without God we can't live a moral life. I'm tired of hearing it. Just be happy that someone has found the way there, not what path they took to get there.
"science is basically defined to not be in conflict with faith."
Would this have anything to do with twisting, changing, or completely refusing to believe scientific evidence that would otherwise make faith hard to hold onto?
I think the argument can be made that religion has absolutely nothing to do with our morality. People have used the bible as a reason to justify many things our society today considers immoral.. bigotry, war, murder, and pretty much anything else immoral you can think of. If your moral code was taken literally from the bible how would you think we should treat my mother who has been married 3 times, or how should I be treated for being an atheist (when I was once a Christian), or what should happen to the all the slashdotters that have masturbated... Luckily for all of us our moral code does come from the bible because we would all justifiably be stoned to death in the town square for that one. If my father stoned me to death for straying from my faith how many people in his church would congratulate him for doing what God demanded in the Bible? (Maybe I don't want to know that answer) I'm a moral person. In fact a couple of people that I have met in my life had assumed I was a religious person based on the way I treat people. Which is odd because some of the most immoral people I know consider themselves Christian. Religion didn't give me my moral code. My belief that life is better when you treat others and the world around me with respect gave me that. For example, I'm am no more likely to go kick an old woman in the neck as any religious person. But how many religious people say it's because of their religion that they don't go kicking old women in the neck? Maybe morality doesn't exist in the first place. Only selfishness. How many things do we do so we will feel good (for pleasing ourselves or our Gods)? How many things do we do so we won't feel bad? Is it morality or our desire to prefer feeling good over bad? Maybe our morality is embedded in our genetic material because living such a life is so beneficial to our social species' survival. You do not have a monopoly on moral behavior. Some people grow out of the need to have the fear of an authority figure punishing us to keep us in line.
Does any of this matter really? Population, distance, size, etc. The point is, the United States use to be on top and now they are not. Why? What has changed? Why do we seem to be sucking it in every area imaginable, except in maybe military strength, bible thumping, reality TV, and infant deaths?
If only we could find technologies like this to spend 450 billion dollars on... then again maybe your right it's a pipe dream. Let's just use the money for a war in Iraq instead.