Sometimes I wonder if people who say how better VS is are really just people who have failed to climb the learning curve.
I don't think "it has a steep learning curve" is necessarily a good thing. If we want more mainstream developers (i.e. game developers) to start supporting Linux, then it's definitely a bad thing.
Yes, there is some value in a steep learning curve - if you're more familiar with a tool, you'll be better able to make it do what you want - but that doesn't mean we should force everyone to climb it.
Replying to myself, but I read more of IntelliJ's website. IntelliJ appears to support non-Java languages to some degree, but the lack of C/C++ support is sort of a dealbreaker in my case. Obviously, IntelliJ is not better at C++ than Visual Studio, because IntelliJ doesn't do C++;)
I'm not in any way saying IntelliJ is a bad thing or whatever. It just won't work for me.
Does IntelliJ support languages besides Java (their website, at first glance, gives no indication that it does)? If so, how do its other features compare with Visual Studio's (integrated debugging, intellisense, etc) for C or C++ development? If not, how do those features compare with competing Java IDEs?
I'm not saying IntelliJ isn't better for Java development, but personally I don't believe any particular IDE can be unilaterally better than every other. I think you should pick your IDE by comparing its strengths with your needs for the project.
I don't know about your parent post, but in my case I never got Eclipse's CDT package to cooperate with me long enough to start a C++ project. NetBeans at least let me get as far as compiling and running a C++ project (but debugging was something I never got to work right).
Visual Studio's C++ Intellisense gets better with every release (try out the 2010 Express Edition). 2008 in particular made Intellisense faster and more reliable and more user-friendly. It tends to not play nicely with anonymous namespaces, though, so if you use those a lot that could be a problem.
In any case, I've found Visual Studio's Intellisense to be better than (e.g.) NetBeans' equivalent. Purely anecdotal, of course, YMMV.
The debugger is what keeps bringing me back to Visual Studio, at least when it comes to C++ development. I never did get NetBeans' gdb integration to work. Eclipse CDT is... clunky, and I never got debugging to work with it either. ddd is not exactly friendly, and its integration with source code doesn't always work right (or: I can't figure out how to get it to work right). gdb *works*, but it's even less friendly, and doesn't have user-friendly source code integration in the same way that Visual Studio does. I've tried a few programs which claim to be alternatives, and I've been unable to get them to work as advertised.
No, Visual Studio is not perfect, and maybe I'm just too dumb to make the other alternatives work properly. But shouldn't an IDE just work? TBH that's what I think Linux needs before more "mainstream" companies will write Linux software - an IDE for C and C++ development that just works.
(Yes, I know C and C++ aren't the only options for application development. Responses like "companies should use $LANGUAGE instead" are not relevant to my comments.)
While I agree that shouting "I'm going to blow up this airport in 7 days" in the middle of an airport security line would be a stupid thing to do, and while I also agree that this guy's joke wasn't actually funny, I think it's important to realize that he clearly didn't intend to make a threat, and that it was a comment made on a communication medium made specifically to communicate spur-of-the-moment snippets of thought, and as such we shouldn't be arresting him for it.
I don't really think it matters whether his joke was actually funny; it was clearly intended as a joke, and people should be free to make stupid jokes as much as they want without fear of getting hunted down by the thought police.
for example, a Nursing Student got one of those because she was drunk and misbehaving
(Emphasis mine.) Just playing devil's advocate for a moment... don't you think any part of that was her fault? I mean, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure "I was drunk" is not a valid legal defense for any crime...
... and maybe next time she'll think twice before getting drunk, because she might do something stupid again.
To be honest, I'm not really seeing a downside to your example situation;)
TFA says he was suspended from work and banned from the airport in question, so apparently, at least two "they"s thought there was something to it.
Furthermore, he was only let out on bail, rather than set free, so clearly the police are pursuing an investigation. They have given no indication whatsoever that they have realized there's "nothing to it".
Are their figures based on the highest available consumer broadband speeds available, the average advertised speeds of real customers, or the average obtained speeds of real customers?
I read TFA, which doesn't link to the actual report, and saw no indication of what their data is based on.
Best I can do in a quick google is some city council minutes from 2008 where a few city residents voiced support for Utopia and wanted to know why Sandy City didn't participate.
According to Qwest.com, the fastest connection they offer anywhere is 20Mbps, so that can't be raising the average as high as they say it is... and they only offer up to 12Mbps at my parents' house.
One would assume someone going by "ThreeGigs" would want a faster connection;)
When I buy a new game on Steam, for example, I don't want to wait for the 7GB download on a 1Mbps connection. (15.93 hours assuming I can saturate the connection.) If I have a 12Mbps connection instead, I only have to wait 1.33 hours instead.
But even if you reject that use-case (and anything vaguely similar), try having a family with two adults and three kids, all using computers and TV-over-IP and VoIP, on a single 1Mbps connection, and tell me if 1Mbps is still acceptable.
I'm trying to figure out what part of Sandy has an average connection speed of 33.5 Mbps, as the article says. Sandy declined to join up with Utopia, and nobody else offers fiber optic that I'm aware of. Comcast's average subscription is most certainly not their 30Mbps nor 50Mbps offering (and even if it is, nobody actually gets that rated speed), Qwest's DSL doesn't go that fast, and... who else even *offers* internet service there?
What am I missing?
Maybe it's a typo for 3.35Mbps?
(I used to live in Sandy, my parents live there, and several of my friends live there. None of my friends know where this 33.5Mbps number came from either.)
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Sometimes I wonder if people who say how better VS is are really just people who have failed to climb the learning curve.
I don't think "it has a steep learning curve" is necessarily a good thing. If we want more mainstream developers (i.e. game developers) to start supporting Linux, then it's definitely a bad thing.
Yes, there is some value in a steep learning curve - if you're more familiar with a tool, you'll be better able to make it do what you want - but that doesn't mean we should force everyone to climb it.
Replying to myself, but I read more of IntelliJ's website. IntelliJ appears to support non-Java languages to some degree, but the lack of C/C++ support is sort of a dealbreaker in my case. Obviously, IntelliJ is not better at C++ than Visual Studio, because IntelliJ doesn't do C++ ;)
I'm not in any way saying IntelliJ is a bad thing or whatever. It just won't work for me.
Does IntelliJ support languages besides Java (their website, at first glance, gives no indication that it does)? If so, how do its other features compare with Visual Studio's (integrated debugging, intellisense, etc) for C or C++ development? If not, how do those features compare with competing Java IDEs?
I'm not saying IntelliJ isn't better for Java development, but personally I don't believe any particular IDE can be unilaterally better than every other. I think you should pick your IDE by comparing its strengths with your needs for the project.
I don't know about your parent post, but in my case I never got Eclipse's CDT package to cooperate with me long enough to start a C++ project. NetBeans at least let me get as far as compiling and running a C++ project (but debugging was something I never got to work right).
Visual Studio's C++ Intellisense gets better with every release (try out the 2010 Express Edition). 2008 in particular made Intellisense faster and more reliable and more user-friendly. It tends to not play nicely with anonymous namespaces, though, so if you use those a lot that could be a problem.
In any case, I've found Visual Studio's Intellisense to be better than (e.g.) NetBeans' equivalent. Purely anecdotal, of course, YMMV.
The debugger is what keeps bringing me back to Visual Studio, at least when it comes to C++ development. I never did get NetBeans' gdb integration to work. Eclipse CDT is... clunky, and I never got debugging to work with it either. ddd is not exactly friendly, and its integration with source code doesn't always work right (or: I can't figure out how to get it to work right). gdb *works*, but it's even less friendly, and doesn't have user-friendly source code integration in the same way that Visual Studio does. I've tried a few programs which claim to be alternatives, and I've been unable to get them to work as advertised.
No, Visual Studio is not perfect, and maybe I'm just too dumb to make the other alternatives work properly. But shouldn't an IDE just work? TBH that's what I think Linux needs before more "mainstream" companies will write Linux software - an IDE for C and C++ development that just works.
(Yes, I know C and C++ aren't the only options for application development. Responses like "companies should use $LANGUAGE instead" are not relevant to my comments.)
You're not "lending" a digital book if you're giving someone a copy of said digital book.
Cygwin comes to the rescue (if you find yourself forced to use Windows)...
Granted, Cygwin isn't perfect, but it's worlds better than Windows' built-in command-line crap.
I know, I'm just pointing out that the given example could have been entirely justified, so it wasn't a good example.
While I agree that shouting "I'm going to blow up this airport in 7 days" in the middle of an airport security line would be a stupid thing to do, and while I also agree that this guy's joke wasn't actually funny, I think it's important to realize that he clearly didn't intend to make a threat, and that it was a comment made on a communication medium made specifically to communicate spur-of-the-moment snippets of thought, and as such we shouldn't be arresting him for it.
I don't really think it matters whether his joke was actually funny; it was clearly intended as a joke, and people should be free to make stupid jokes as much as they want without fear of getting hunted down by the thought police.
for example, a Nursing Student got one of those because she was drunk and misbehaving
(Emphasis mine.) Just playing devil's advocate for a moment... don't you think any part of that was her fault? I mean, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure "I was drunk" is not a valid legal defense for any crime...
. .. and maybe next time she'll think twice before getting drunk, because she might do something stupid again.
To be honest, I'm not really seeing a downside to your example situation ;)
They quickly saw there was nothing to it.
TFA says he was suspended from work and banned from the airport in question, so apparently, at least two "they"s thought there was something to it.
Furthermore, he was only let out on bail, rather than set free, so clearly the police are pursuing an investigation. They have given no indication whatsoever that they have realized there's "nothing to it".
AFAIK there isn't a college or university campus in Sandy... it's basically a huge suburb.
Are their figures based on the highest available consumer broadband speeds available, the average advertised speeds of real customers, or the average obtained speeds of real customers?
I read TFA, which doesn't link to the actual report, and saw no indication of what their data is based on.
Yeah, when I lived in Provo I paid $43/month for 15Mbps symmetric fiber, and I loved it.
I live in Seattle now, and I have to settle for Comcast :(
Nope.
Best I can do in a quick google is some city council minutes from 2008 where a few city residents voiced support for Utopia and wanted to know why Sandy City didn't participate.
If they're including a data center in the consumer average, they're doing something horribly wrong.
From which company? My dad would be interested.
According to Qwest.com, the fastest connection they offer anywhere is 20Mbps, so that can't be raising the average as high as they say it is... and they only offer up to 12Mbps at my parents' house.
Comcast offers 30 and 50 Mbit connections in my parents' neighborhood, but nobody I know actually subscribes to anything higher than 12Mbps or so.
One would assume someone going by "ThreeGigs" would want a faster connection ;)
When I buy a new game on Steam, for example, I don't want to wait for the 7GB download on a 1Mbps connection. (15.93 hours assuming I can saturate the connection.) If I have a 12Mbps connection instead, I only have to wait 1.33 hours instead.
But even if you reject that use-case (and anything vaguely similar), try having a family with two adults and three kids, all using computers and TV-over-IP and VoIP, on a single 1Mbps connection, and tell me if 1Mbps is still acceptable.
I don't have to google Sandy; my parents live there, as well as many of my friends. I can't figure out where the number is coming from either.
What? Last I heard, Sandy soundly rejected Utopia.
Check the list of member cities - Sandy is not listed.
I'm trying to figure out what part of Sandy has an average connection speed of 33.5 Mbps, as the article says. Sandy declined to join up with Utopia, and nobody else offers fiber optic that I'm aware of. Comcast's average subscription is most certainly not their 30Mbps nor 50Mbps offering (and even if it is, nobody actually gets that rated speed), Qwest's DSL doesn't go that fast, and... who else even *offers* internet service there?
What am I missing?
Maybe it's a typo for 3.35Mbps?
(I used to live in Sandy, my parents live there, and several of my friends live there. None of my friends know where this 33.5Mbps number came from either.)
I never attempted to convert, recruit, or otherwise persuade you to join my church.
I was merely showing you that there is, in fact, some archeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon.
If you interpreted that as a recruitment, then I suspect you've never been visited by LDS missionaries, because that's not how we work ;)