Sounds like somebody's been tampering with your BIND.:-)
--
Re:Computers don't do squat for education.
on
Kids and Computers
·
· Score: 1
1) Arithmetic - I will agree that people should be able to determine "what is reasonable" (How? I don't know, I'm just playing devil's advocate here), but those don't necessarily have to involve memorization of multiplication tables, for example.
2) Spelling - I disagree that spelling is, "in and of itself, a beneficial activity" (but it bugs the heck out of me, and I can hardly stand to read CmdrTaco's posts). I would assert that the only reason we have to spell is to communicate ideas to each other in the most unambiguous way possible. If you can communicate without correct spelling (or without any words, grammar, etc., just concepts), spelling becomes completely unnecessary. --
Re:Computers don't do squat for education.
on
Kids and Computers
·
· Score: 1
While I agree with your statement that it is the content that matters, I have to ask (and I'm not trying to be a troll)...
How many people are dependent on spell-check, grammar check and synonyms/thesaurus for their writing?! How many are dependent on MS Excel to do the most basic arithmetic calculations for them?!
IF these tools are always going to be available (and with the increases in technology, yadda, yadda, don't tell me they won't) why does it matter?
Let me let you in on something - I don't know how to make my own ink. I rely on the fact that stores will carry pens with ink in them, so I don't have to know how to make my own. Now, let me give you a quote from the 1928 Rural Association of Teachers:
Students of today depend upon store bought ink. They don't know how to make their own. When they run out of ink they will be unable to write words or ciphers until their next trip to the settlement. This is a sad commentary on modern education.
Although I can probably find someone (I live in a small rural town) that knows how to make ink in case the stores fail continue to supply pens, I don't worry about this, and so far I've lived a fairly normal life. So then, why should everyone learn to spell, hand calculate, etc., when it won't be necessary (voice recognition to text and brain-computer interfaces) in the future?
Heck, somebody here commented that books are so much better because you can take them for a walk in a park. I downloaded Underground and have been reading it on my Palm. Much more convenient than a traditional book, IMHO.
--
Re:What about calculators and math? etc.
on
Kids and Computers
·
· Score: 1
About Reading, Writing, and Grammar.
Hmmm...must not have worked - that was an incomplete sentence.
What's the use... on the computer.
And shouldn't there be a question mark here?
Or Spelling... all MSFT product!
There we go again with disagreement in number (should be 'products').
...not to mention the gratuitous capitalizations.
Never mind me, I just couldn't help the grammar flame considering your subject matter.
--
Honestly: most of those computers grew a nice layer of dust after the kids played the computer games and got fed up with it....down the drain the investment.
Perhaps, but you can be dang sure my kids are going to have access. Perhaps I can even teach them a thing or two beyond the games.
... are plainly used to surf, chat and email
Precisely! That's how people are communicating now. Those are skills that students in my (I'm the "Director of Technology") school district are going to have, and are going to be able to use in a productive work environment.
When I started my Comper Science study, I was driven by passion for computers. Nowadays, people don't enroll because of passion they do IT because "you'll earn big-bucks"
1) Same here, but I do enjoy the monetary benefits of having learned.
2) Ideally, people getting into the computer industry would do it because of passion, but in the "real world" money talks. I'm going to make sure my kids are at least computer literate, even if they don't develop the passion that I did.
As for those who wonder: my dad never bought a computer for me
Mine did: a used Vic 20 with a whopping 3K of RAM in 1984 for $40 - even a 'toy' back then... and it had to last me until I bought my own as a sophomore in college in 1991. (*shudder* - remembering cassette tape storage) --
Don't have a fax? Maybe the local copy shop downtown will allow you to receive faxes for a fee. I've known drug stores where I received faxes regularly.
Better yet, get an EFax account. It's free (for receiving) and delivers your faxes through e-mail.
--
Try buying a billing system for $100K. You don't get a CD ROM in an envelope with a EULA stuck on the outside.
Actually, if you're paying $100K for some software, your legal team better make sure you put up the extra $500 or so to put a copy of the source code in escrow in case the software company goes belly-up
(Isn't this the point in the debate where someone claims that a billing system can be written in 10 lines of Perl?)
High Tech Heretic is high on my "need to read soon" list, but I haven't yet, therefore I cannot critique his book.
But still, doing research on the Net is next to useless.
Really? Maybe you should look at some WebQuests. The well-developed ones give opposing viewpoints, and let the student decide where his/her own opinions lie. Let's not let the kiddies think anything outside what the mainstream textbooks tell us!
The accuracy and validity of anything on the Web must be questioned...
Absolutely. Questioning (a.k.a. skepticism) is something we should be teaching our students, don't you think?
In a time when schools are removing libraries to make room for computer labs,...
Source? Certainly some oversized libraries have had sections rearranged to make room for a computer lab, but I know of nowhere where any books have been made inaccessible by "making rooms for computer labs", much less of a school "removing a library".
What would you trust more, the Oxford English Dictionary, or Encarta.com?
I'd rather see a better approach in the sence of voluntary ratings for sites, and mandating that public institution must enable such features on a browser to conform with that ratings system. Then make it a civil offense to misrate your site after being notified that the site is improperly rated....
Although it's not a bad idea, it's completely unenforceable. One of the strengths of the internet is that it's an international community. Do you really think goatse.cx cares if a U.S. lawyer wants to sue them for violating their ratings code? I think not.
--
I usually use Netscape (4.7x), but am occasionally "forced" to use IE 4.x or 5.x
I personally like Netscape better for one very simple reason - searching for text within a page on IE sucks rocks. I like being able to hit F3 to repeat my search (especially from a previous page) and not have Windoze bring up its STUPID "find file" box.
Couple of points I've gotta make (though I agree with you in general):
Do you really believe that Bill Gates set up his foundation to avoid taxes?
No. He set up his foundation because he got married. If it weren't for Melinda, he'd still be grabbing it all.
it is the teachers' unions (who bring us a public school system that consumes more money per pupil than almost any country in the world, and delivers far less educational results than every first world country and most second world countries)
As a techie for a public school, I've got to say something here. First off, I can't stand the teachers unions - they seem to be defeating the very goals they claim to uphold. But the reason the U.S. spends so much per child is because the U.S. chooses to educate everyone - from the genius to the moron. Other (civilized, even) countries at best do not even attempt to educate the less intelligent. As a matter of fact, when my mother was living in Germany, she was pregnant and was given a test for Downs Syndrome - she was told that if the test came back positive, they would FORCE her to have an abortion (something she would never even consider in the U.S.) So on the surface, this policy may sound OK, but if it's YOUR child? I think you'd have a different opinion
And while I've got the floor... Did anybody else hear Gore last night say "Under my plan, if a school is failing, we work with the states to give them the authority and the resources to close down that school and reopen it right away with a new principal, a new faculty, a turnaround team of specialists who know what they're doing,"
Now there's a great plan - just throw everyone out, bring in a bunch of strangers, and let's see how the students react to that. I bet their scores go WAY up. Sure. I wonder what his plan is when the scores don't come up after his "turnaround team of specialists" are in place?
True, but most parents are more worried about that second income than educating their own kids. You should have heard the complaints at the school board meeting here a couple of months ago when the administration suggested a "planning day" for the elementary schools without one for the Jr./Sr. High. What shall we do with our elementary age kids when our high-schooler has to be at school and can't babysit?
The big question is: Teachers or Computers, which are more important to teach our children? Should be an easy question to answer, right...... right?
Are these my only two choices? If so, you win for now.
Looking into the future, wouldn't you agree that it will be possible to customize an educational program to an individual? Find out how a student learns best (using the Multiple Intelligences or whatever revisions/replacements come about). Tailor the facts they need to know and methods they need to learn into their profile. Extensively use the internet and a fairly large team of effective teachers to determine what has been done what needs to be done.
Don't think it's possible? Wait about 10 years (on the outside, 5 on the inside), and I'll see if you've changed your mind.
Although the points raised here (essentially that old computers can teach computer skills as effectively as new ones) have merit. I have to disagree. It's our culture that says you've got to have the latest and greatest. If you give a student an Apple ][ (which, BTW, was my first introduction to computers as well), he's going to get the impression (possibly true!) that they're only getting this because it didn't cost anything. Translation: I'm not worth anything. I'm not into any of this tree-hugging social promotion or anything, but in today's society perception is reality, like it or not.
...not to mention I've not yet been able to access my e-mail on an Apple ][ (see my earlier post).
Slashdot Mirror
Sounds like somebody's been tampering with your BIND. :-)
--
2) Spelling - I disagree that spelling is, "in and of itself, a beneficial activity" (but it bugs the heck out of me, and I can hardly stand to read CmdrTaco's posts). I would assert that the only reason we have to spell is to communicate ideas to each other in the most unambiguous way possible. If you can communicate without correct spelling (or without any words, grammar, etc., just concepts), spelling becomes completely unnecessary.
--
How many people are dependent on spell-check, grammar check and synonyms/thesaurus for their writing?! How many are dependent on MS Excel to do the most basic arithmetic calculations for them?!
IF these tools are always going to be available (and with the increases in technology, yadda, yadda, don't tell me they won't) why does it matter?
Let me let you in on something - I don't know how to make my own ink. I rely on the fact that stores will carry pens with ink in them, so I don't have to know how to make my own. Now, let me give you a quote from the 1928 Rural Association of Teachers:
Although I can probably find someone (I live in a small rural town) that knows how to make ink in case the stores fail continue to supply pens, I don't worry about this, and so far I've lived a fairly normal life. So then, why should everyone learn to spell, hand calculate, etc., when it won't be necessary (voice recognition to text and brain-computer interfaces) in the future?Heck, somebody here commented that books are so much better because you can take them for a walk in a park. I downloaded Underground and have been reading it on my Palm. Much more convenient than a traditional book, IMHO.
--
Hmmm...must not have worked - that was an incomplete sentence.
What's the use ... on the computer.
And shouldn't there be a question mark here?
Or Spelling ... all MSFT product!
There we go again with disagreement in number (should be 'products').
Never mind me, I just couldn't help the grammar flame considering your subject matter.
--
Perhaps, but you can be dang sure my kids are going to have access. Perhaps I can even teach them a thing or two beyond the games.
Precisely! That's how people are communicating now. Those are skills that students in my (I'm the "Director of Technology") school district are going to have, and are going to be able to use in a productive work environment.
When I started my Comper Science study, I was driven by passion for computers. Nowadays, people don't enroll because of passion they do IT because "you'll earn big-bucks"
1) Same here, but I do enjoy the monetary benefits of having learned.
2) Ideally, people getting into the computer industry would do it because of passion, but in the "real world" money talks. I'm going to make sure my kids are at least computer literate, even if they don't develop the passion that I did.
As for those who wonder: my dad never bought a computer for me
Mine did: a used Vic 20 with a whopping 3K of RAM in 1984 for $40 - even a 'toy' back then ... and it had to last me until I bought my own as a sophomore in college in 1991. (*shudder* - remembering cassette tape storage)
--
Better yet, get an EFax account. It's free (for receiving) and delivers your faxes through e-mail.
--
Actually, if you're paying $100K for some software, your legal team better make sure you put up the extra $500 or so to put a copy of the source code in escrow in case the software company goes belly-up
(Isn't this the point in the debate where someone claims that a billing system can be written in 10 lines of Perl?)
Dang - I could only get it down to 12. ;-)
--
But still, doing research on the Net is next to useless.
Really? Maybe you should look at some WebQuests. The well-developed ones give opposing viewpoints, and let the student decide where his/her own opinions lie. Let's not let the kiddies think anything outside what the mainstream textbooks tell us!
The accuracy and validity of anything on the Web must be questioned...
Absolutely. Questioning (a.k.a. skepticism) is something we should be teaching our students, don't you think?
In a time when schools are removing libraries to make room for computer labs,...
Source? Certainly some oversized libraries have had sections rearranged to make room for a computer lab, but I know of nowhere where any books have been made inaccessible by "making rooms for computer labs", much less of a school "removing a library".
What would you trust more, the Oxford English Dictionary, or Encarta.com?
No more straw men, please! (And besides, you're comparing a dictionary to an encyclopedia.) Which do you trust more, Any of these textbooks (which purport to be conveyors of fact), or This variety of internet resources?
--
Although it's not a bad idea, it's completely unenforceable. One of the strengths of the internet is that it's an international community. Do you really think goatse.cx cares if a U.S. lawyer wants to sue them for violating their ratings code? I think not.
--
Same here. Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking this way. /dev/null ...or something to that effect.
Lessee... route add 206.251.29.10
--
I personally like Netscape better for one very simple reason - searching for text within a page on IE sucks rocks. I like being able to hit F3 to repeat my search (especially from a previous page) and not have Windoze bring up its STUPID "find file" box.
That alone is worth Netscape's crashes.
Although I may have some reasonable guesses as to 'enculage', it still didn't help much.
Actually my (much younger) brother was born in 1988.
Do you really believe that Bill Gates set up his foundation to avoid taxes?
No. He set up his foundation because he got married. If it weren't for Melinda, he'd still be grabbing it all.
it is the teachers' unions (who bring us a public school system that consumes more money per pupil than almost any country in the world, and delivers far less educational results than every first world country and most second world countries)
As a techie for a public school, I've got to say something here. First off, I can't stand the teachers unions - they seem to be defeating the very goals they claim to uphold. But the reason the U.S. spends so much per child is because the U.S. chooses to educate everyone - from the genius to the moron. Other (civilized, even) countries at best do not even attempt to educate the less intelligent. As a matter of fact, when my mother was living in Germany, she was pregnant and was given a test for Downs Syndrome - she was told that if the test came back positive, they would FORCE her to have an abortion (something she would never even consider in the U.S.) So on the surface, this policy may sound OK, but if it's YOUR child? I think you'd have a different opinion
And while I've got the floor... Did anybody else hear Gore last night say
"Under my plan, if a school is failing, we work with the states to give them the authority and the resources to close down that school and reopen it right away with a new principal, a new faculty, a turnaround team of specialists who know what they're doing,"
Now there's a great plan - just throw everyone out, bring in a bunch of strangers, and let's see how the students react to that. I bet their scores go WAY up. Sure. I wonder what his plan is when the scores don't come up after his "turnaround team of specialists" are in place?
NASA's site has some MUCH larger "fountains of fire" pics at http://www.gsfc.nasa .go v/GSFC/SpaceSci/sunearth/tracecl.htm. As it states: "Extra-Large Image (Suitable For Framing!) (15 MEG TIFF File)"
Delusions of grandeur I can handle. It's the folks that have delusions of adequacy that are harder to tolerate.
Heh... This time with a working link
And to think I hought it was a joke, but The Bug scooped this one last month. Well...almost.
Four years ago? My sister teaches in a school where they still use these now.
True, but most parents are more worried about that second income than educating their own kids. You should have heard the complaints at the school board meeting here a couple of months ago when the administration suggested a "planning day" for the elementary schools without one for the Jr./Sr. High. What shall we do with our elementary age kids when our high-schooler has to be at school and can't babysit?
Who magically got educated on their 18th birthday?
Are these my only two choices? If so, you win for now.
Looking into the future, wouldn't you agree that it will be possible to customize an educational program to an individual? Find out how a student learns best (using the Multiple Intelligences or whatever revisions/replacements come about). Tailor the facts they need to know and methods they need to learn into their profile. Extensively use the internet and a fairly large team of effective teachers to determine what has been done what needs to be done.
Don't think it's possible? Wait about 10 years (on the outside, 5 on the inside), and I'll see if you've changed your mind.
Although the points raised here (essentially that old computers can teach computer skills as effectively as new ones) have merit. I have to disagree. It's our culture that says you've got to have the latest and greatest. If you give a student an Apple ][ (which, BTW, was my first introduction to computers as well), he's going to get the impression (possibly true!) that they're only getting this because it didn't cost anything. Translation: I'm not worth anything. I'm not into any of this tree-hugging social promotion or anything, but in today's society perception is reality, like it or not.