There is a Windows interface design manual that outlines the ways applications should do things. If Winamp comes along and decides to make Ctrl-P be 'Preferences', then shame on Winamp, but that's their prerogative. I know that in just about every application that's worth it's salt, I'll be able to use Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, and Ctrl-V to do my Copy, Cut, and Paste operations. Or Ctrl-Ins, Shift-Del, and Shift-Ins. Or Alt-E, C; Alt-E, T; or Alt-E, P. Or Shift-F10, C; Shift-F10, T; or Shift-F10, P. The alt's and Shift-F10's aren't really shortcuts, but a shortcut way to navigate through the menus.
Yes, there is more than one way to do it, and on most applications they implement all ways. But Rarely (have I ever?) come upon an app that uses something completely and totally non-standard.
What everyone SHOULD be worried about is that this new Linux Desktop further fragments the market. You say things are inconsistent on Windows, what happens when you now have more desktops than desktop productivity apps? In addition to each app for Linux having been written by someone that doesn't believe in following the norm (you think just because someone thinks they are too leet for a particular OS will think that his app should use the same shortcuts as everyone else?:) but each desktop is different from the next. If you go to Win9x, Win2000, or WinCE you are presented with the same interface, same shortcuts, same interface paradigm. Go between KDE, GNOME, E, Nautilis, FWM, etc and you are presented with different interfaces, even different between the same desktop program. You have a trade-off: the more customaization you allow, the more fragmentation you end up with.
Just freaking make up your minds already and pick an interface that use Microsoft users can bash equally.:)
Disclaimer: These opinions are my own, not those of my employer. Deal with it.
I think a lot of these posts here are missing the point, they are confusing UI with GUI - the article is about open source UI's in general, not necessarily WM's or The X System That Does Windowing (or whatever the official term is for it), it's about the UI's on any open source app, from Gimp to xEmacs to xBill.
Yes, Linux has some eye-candy WM's, but they are (from my experience) a pain to customize yourself. Then you go on to actual tools and utilities, compare configuring NNTPD with configuring the Windows new server, in a recent example I installed and configured the news server on Windows 2000 in a matter of minutes (having never installed or configured it before), while my Linux counterpart on IRC spent nearly 2 hours fighting with it and reading HOWTO's and man pages. I'm sure there are are people that will say things like "it may have only taken you 3 minutes, but it's probably not as secure as the linux nntpd." That may be so, but that still doens't mean that the linux admin should have to go through hell and back to get it working, there's room for a ui there to simplify things. Granted that's a sysadmin example (and many people will say if a sysadmin is too dumb to figure that how he shouldn't be sysadmining...but what law says that a sysadmin is forced to use dark ages tools to prove his worth?).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't get stuck on the "our GUI is prettier" trip, yes, you have some pretty WM's, but bitchx is still a pain to use, pretty or not.
Oh, yeah, I used to sysadmin Linux 3-4 years or so ago. Now I'm almost strictly a Windows guy.
Just want to point out that the Microsoft.com story is working fine. Now the question is posed: Can Microsoft.com really handle the Slashdot effect, or do people just not care about MS?:)
No warranty? What do you call X amount of Free Tech Support, unlimited free patches and fixes, and occaisonally free updates? There aren't many software companies out there that don't do this (your $10 bargain bin banner maker probably doesn't, but your $4000 unix OS sure does).
Wow! This didn't make it into the infamous "Your rights online" bundle?! What's up with that!?
I guess Spammers don't have rights. I mean regardless of whether or not people hate Spam, and whether or not there are existing laws against it, and whether or not there are utils and programs to filter said spam, wouldn't this count as a type of "Free Speech?"
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Spam is annoying, but so long as they just send me text (no pictures, no macros, etc) I'm content with just deleting it (I actually have an e-mail account that I only use on websites that I'm pretty sure will send me spam). With my extensive set of inbox rules everything important is filtered to it's appropriate folder, everything else is thrown in to be read or deleted at my leisure.
And by that VERY same reasoning ask.com or my.netscape.com or linuxportal.com or any other portal or search site can do the exact same thing. Except instead of 60,000 you have millions. But that's a non-issue, right? Because search engines aren't in bed with porn sites.
In order for your above scenario to work the cursor web site would have to have access to another website where they get your personal information.
Not to mention it sounds like a big old conspiracy theory.
I just think you are going after the wrong people. Sure this comet place can theoretically take the information it's gathering off of the web and use it to steal your privacy away from you...but if they did then they would have the class action from hell on their hands.
No company is going to break the law on purpose to get private information on you. The government will, but the private sector WON'T because the private sector is not above the law. If they get caught (and they will get caught, what with the watchful eye of the leet opensourcer always on alert) it's not pretty. And THAT'S the thing that most people don't get.
I said 'such as TRUSTe.' I am by no means up on the list of privacy watchdog agencies, nor do I necessarily care to be educated right now. And quite frankly I don't pay much attention to current events past what scrolls by on my MSN stock ticker. I read Slashdot purely for amusement, I leave my comment ticker at 3 or above (I let the moderators weed out the chaffe like your post). If TRUSTe sucks then I'm sure there are other agencies out there that can do the task better, and they can be used. I'll let a working group decide that. BTW, a lesson for the Slashdot comment posting crowd. You will get a much better reaction if you say something along the lines of: "TRUSTe? I am not sure if you are up on the latest news but according to several news articles TRUSTe is not the best privacy watchdog agency out there. I would suggest some other agency such as . Your post was otherwise exemplery and I believe it will get moderated up highly." This attacking the other posters just doesn't appeal to me.
I'm not a lawyer (or solicitor) nor do I live in the UK, nor do I have any knowledge of the above laws beyond what you have described. That being said: 1) DPA - I would assume this database has to actually be able to point directly at a person, either by name, governemt assigned number (SSN, etc), e-mail address, residence, or any other such PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING item. I would assume that server logs (being essentially flat file databases, unless actually stored in a database) would count under this law, but I doubt anyone would press charges for such. This cursor software company may store your private serial number, it might not (it may only store the URL's you go to), however while this number is (as I understand) unique to your computer, at no point is that actually matched up to you. You can easily remove the serial number and get a new one without registering. Things seem pretty grey as to whether this falls under that law. And if it does, then the law is probably to far reaching and restrictive and will be difficult to uphold.
2) CMA - As I remember correctly, I had to click a button to accept installation of said Cursor program to my computer. That is essentially giving permission for this program to run on my computer (that takes care of run sw and cause sw to run). The 'do anything with a computer' bit is kind of grey to me as well. Does that mean beyond what I expect the software to do? I can understand where this clause would be applicable to Trojan Horses, but not knowing the exact law, it might simply be that I can't go muddle with your computer unless you say I can (outside of software).
3) EUDoHR - I think this would be a non-issue again for the same reason #1 is a non-issue. This really isn't private information. I would guess that this declaration specifically outlines the type of information that is considered private.
Class action lawsuit? No thanks. I'm going to relax and wait for the bigger issue.
However, please feel free to look up these laws, post links to the parts of the law that you feel apply, and let me know. I'd be interested in seeing this fly.
And don't forget to classaction id Software. And Netscape (remember the 'similar links' thing in their software?). And...........
They do use it. They just don't use it to track people. From what I gather from the article, the Comet people use this serial number to charge it's customers (some of the people that use the software on their site). It's one of their methods for efficiently and accurately tracking this particular stream of revenue.
In addition they imght use some of it to do marketing research (although it is neither mentioned nor implied which means they might or they might not). The same things all those banner ads do. You want to worry about privacy? There's the motherlode of your personal viewing habits being sent across the internet - all corresponding nicely to your machine (IP), your e-mail (if your browser sends it - unlikely but possible), uniquely identifying your machine (via cookies unless you delete/disable them), and much more.
However most of this doesn't bother me. Quake 3 sending my GL_RENDERER string? *shrug* Mr Comet Cursor thingy senging a list of websites I visit that use the cursor (considering I've seen that cursor maybe once - EVER)? *shrug* All of this is benign information. Do I care that Carmack knows that someone out there (at IP # blah - if he even stores that data) is running version 1.09 and has a TNT2 Ultra? Or that Sir Cursor Changer knows someone (again, possible from my IP if they bother to store it) visited some web site?
Now: Send my SSN or CCN or Home Phone across the web without my permission?! Thats in the interest of 'My Rights Online.'
Here's what SHOULD be done: Any app or web site that sends data back to its creators should register with a security watchdog organization such as TRUSTe. They should document their procedures and what they store and what could potentially be stored with out a change on the client end (i.e. modifying the server to collect IP addresses). People can then get full disclosure on issues. Random and directed (in case of dispute) audits can be performed at the watchdog ageny's discretion. If you think that Carmack is privately planning world domination based on the distribution of 3dfx chips in the world, you can complain to the appropriate agency.
Most of the 'Your Rights Online' articles have been, IMO, non-issues, this one included. People say "If we let them do this then they will keep going until they send our entire lives back!" No. If someone starts sending back e-mail addresses without permission or other very private information THEN we start boycotting and raising hell. Until then just relax, vote with your dollar, send polite e-mails if you don't agree with something and just deal with the larger issues.
And just think how much information CmdrTaco has collected from you.:) No one is safe.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, shows how damn confusing it all is. :)
There is a Windows interface design manual that outlines the ways applications should do things. If Winamp comes along and decides to make Ctrl-P be 'Preferences', then shame on Winamp, but that's their prerogative. I know that in just about every application that's worth it's salt, I'll be able to use Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, and Ctrl-V to do my Copy, Cut, and Paste operations. Or Ctrl-Ins, Shift-Del, and Shift-Ins. Or Alt-E, C; Alt-E, T; or Alt-E, P. Or Shift-F10, C; Shift-F10, T; or Shift-F10, P. The alt's and Shift-F10's aren't really shortcuts, but a shortcut way to navigate through the menus.
:) but each desktop is different from the next. If you go to Win9x, Win2000, or WinCE you are presented with the same interface, same shortcuts, same interface paradigm. Go between KDE, GNOME, E, Nautilis, FWM, etc and you are presented with different interfaces, even different between the same desktop program. You have a trade-off: the more customaization you allow, the more fragmentation you end up with.
:)
Yes, there is more than one way to do it, and on most applications they implement all ways. But Rarely (have I ever?) come upon an app that uses something completely and totally non-standard.
What everyone SHOULD be worried about is that this new Linux Desktop further fragments the market. You say things are inconsistent on Windows, what happens when you now have more desktops than desktop productivity apps? In addition to each app for Linux having been written by someone that doesn't believe in following the norm (you think just because someone thinks they are too leet for a particular OS will think that his app should use the same shortcuts as everyone else?
Just freaking make up your minds already and pick an interface that use Microsoft users can bash equally.
Disclaimer: These opinions are my own, not those of my employer. Deal with it.
I think a lot of these posts here are missing the point, they are confusing UI with GUI - the article is about open source UI's in general, not necessarily WM's or The X System That Does Windowing (or whatever the official term is for it), it's about the UI's on any open source app, from Gimp to xEmacs to xBill.
Yes, Linux has some eye-candy WM's, but they are (from my experience) a pain to customize yourself. Then you go on to actual tools and utilities, compare configuring NNTPD with configuring the Windows new server, in a recent example I installed and configured the news server on Windows 2000 in a matter of minutes (having never installed or configured it before), while my Linux counterpart on IRC spent nearly 2 hours fighting with it and reading HOWTO's and man pages. I'm sure there are are people that will say things like "it may have only taken you 3 minutes, but it's probably not as secure as the linux nntpd." That may be so, but that still doens't mean that the linux admin should have to go through hell and back to get it working, there's room for a ui there to simplify things. Granted that's a sysadmin example (and many people will say if a sysadmin is too dumb to figure that how he shouldn't be sysadmining...but what law says that a sysadmin is forced to use dark ages tools to prove his worth?).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't get stuck on the "our GUI is prettier" trip, yes, you have some pretty WM's, but bitchx is still a pain to use, pretty or not.
Oh, yeah, I used to sysadmin Linux 3-4 years or so ago. Now I'm almost strictly a Windows guy.
SYDNEY TV GUIDE
for 10.00 am Saturday 1 January 1999
Interesting that the Y2K Special's Schedule was hit by the Y2K bug.
I double checked, they've indeed got an issue (not necessarily Y2K, but definately date related) with the scheduling page.
Just want to point out that the Microsoft.com story is working fine. Now the question is posed: Can Microsoft.com really handle the Slashdot effect, or do people just not care about MS? :)
:)
Wait...don't answer that.
No warranty? What do you call X amount of Free Tech Support, unlimited free patches and fixes, and occaisonally free updates? There aren't many software companies out there that don't do this (your $10 bargain bin banner maker probably doesn't, but your $4000 unix OS sure does).
Wow! This didn't make it into the infamous "Your rights online" bundle?! What's up with that!?
I guess Spammers don't have rights. I mean regardless of whether or not people hate Spam, and whether or not there are existing laws against it, and whether or not there are utils and programs to filter said spam, wouldn't this count as a type of "Free Speech?"
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Spam is annoying, but so long as they just send me text (no pictures, no macros, etc) I'm content with just deleting it (I actually have an e-mail account that I only use on websites that I'm pretty sure will send me spam). With my extensive set of inbox rules everything important is filtered to it's appropriate folder, everything else is thrown in to be read or deleted at my leisure.
And by that VERY same reasoning ask.com or my.netscape.com or linuxportal.com or any other portal or search site can do the exact same thing. Except instead of 60,000 you have millions. But that's a non-issue, right? Because search engines aren't in bed with porn sites.
In order for your above scenario to work the cursor web site would have to have access to another website where they get your personal information.
Not to mention it sounds like a big old conspiracy theory.
I just think you are going after the wrong people. Sure this comet place can theoretically take the information it's gathering off of the web and use it to steal your privacy away from you...but if they did then they would have the class action from hell on their hands.
No company is going to break the law on purpose to get private information on you. The government will, but the private sector WON'T because the private sector is not above the law. If they get caught (and they will get caught, what with the watchful eye of the leet opensourcer always on alert) it's not pretty. And THAT'S the thing that most people don't get.
I said 'such as TRUSTe.' I am by no means up on the list of privacy watchdog agencies, nor do I necessarily care to be educated right now. And quite frankly I don't pay much attention to current events past what scrolls by on my MSN stock ticker. I read Slashdot purely for amusement, I leave my comment ticker at 3 or above (I let the moderators weed out the chaffe like your post). If TRUSTe sucks then I'm sure there are other agencies out there that can do the task better, and they can be used. I'll let a working group decide that. BTW, a lesson for the Slashdot comment posting crowd. You will get a much better reaction if you say something along the lines of: "TRUSTe? I am not sure if you are up on the latest news but according to several news articles TRUSTe is not the best privacy watchdog agency out there. I would suggest some other agency such as . Your post was otherwise exemplery and I believe it will get moderated up highly." This attacking the other posters just doesn't appeal to me.
I'm not a lawyer (or solicitor) nor do I live in the UK, nor do I have any knowledge of the above laws beyond what you have described. That being said:
1) DPA - I would assume this database has to actually be able to point directly at a person, either by name, governemt assigned number (SSN, etc), e-mail address, residence, or any other such PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING item. I would assume that server logs (being essentially flat file databases, unless actually stored in a database) would count under this law, but I doubt anyone would press charges for such. This cursor software company may store your private serial number, it might not (it may only store the URL's you go to), however while this number is (as I understand) unique to your computer, at no point is that actually matched up to you. You can easily remove the serial number and get a new one without registering. Things seem pretty grey as to whether this falls under that law. And if it does, then the law is probably to far reaching and restrictive and will be difficult to uphold.
2) CMA - As I remember correctly, I had to click a button to accept installation of said Cursor program to my computer. That is essentially giving permission for this program to run on my computer (that takes care of run sw and cause sw to run). The 'do anything with a computer' bit is kind of grey to me as well. Does that mean beyond what I expect the software to do? I can understand where this clause would be applicable to Trojan Horses, but not knowing the exact law, it might simply be that I can't go muddle with your computer unless you say I can (outside of software).
3) EUDoHR - I think this would be a non-issue again for the same reason #1 is a non-issue. This really isn't private information. I would guess that this declaration specifically outlines the type of information that is considered private.
Class action lawsuit? No thanks. I'm going to relax and wait for the bigger issue.
However, please feel free to look up these laws, post links to the parts of the law that you feel apply, and let me know. I'd be interested in seeing this fly.
And don't forget to classaction id Software. And Netscape (remember the 'similar links' thing in their software?). And...........
They do use it. They just don't use it to track people. From what I gather from the article, the Comet people use this serial number to charge it's customers (some of the people that use the software on their site). It's one of their methods for efficiently and accurately tracking this particular stream of revenue.
:) No one is safe.
In addition they imght use some of it to do marketing research (although it is neither mentioned nor implied which means they might or they might not). The same things all those banner ads do. You want to worry about privacy? There's the motherlode of your personal viewing habits being sent across the internet - all corresponding nicely to your machine (IP), your e-mail (if your browser sends it - unlikely but possible), uniquely identifying your machine (via cookies unless you delete/disable them), and much more.
However most of this doesn't bother me. Quake 3 sending my GL_RENDERER string? *shrug* Mr Comet Cursor thingy senging a list of websites I visit that use the cursor (considering I've seen that cursor maybe once - EVER)? *shrug* All of this is benign information. Do I care that Carmack knows that someone out there (at IP # blah - if he even stores that data) is running version 1.09 and has a TNT2 Ultra? Or that Sir Cursor Changer knows someone (again, possible from my IP if they
bother to store it) visited some web site?
Now: Send my SSN or CCN or Home Phone across the web without my permission?! Thats in the interest of 'My Rights Online.'
Here's what SHOULD be done: Any app or web site that sends data back to its creators should register with a security watchdog organization such as TRUSTe. They should document their procedures and what they store and what could potentially be stored with out a change on the client end (i.e. modifying the server to collect IP addresses). People can then get full disclosure on issues. Random and directed (in case of dispute) audits can be performed at the watchdog ageny's discretion. If you think that Carmack is privately planning world domination based on the distribution of 3dfx chips in the world, you can complain to the appropriate agency.
Most of the 'Your Rights Online' articles have been, IMO, non-issues, this one included. People say "If we let them do this then they will keep going until they send our entire lives back!" No. If someone starts sending back e-mail addresses without permission or other very private information THEN we start boycotting and raising hell. Until then just relax, vote with your dollar, send polite e-mails if you don't agree with something and just deal with the larger issues.
And just think how much information CmdrTaco has collected from you.