And don't forget the studies that have shown the hazards of injecting aluminum into your blood. A single vaccine in an adult may not be very much aluminum, but when it's a 2 or 3 month old infant and they want to stick 6 or more vaccines into them at once, all with their own dose of aluminum, it adds up. The studies to see what level of aluminum is safe for an infant have not been done. Then you also see stories like that cheerleader that got all messed up.
You are ignoring the fact that vaccines are spread our and children only get certain vaccines at certain points in life to prevent the very thing you bring up. Skipping vaccines and forcing us providers to attempt to adjust a "catch up" schedule for you actually places your child at more risk for what you have mentioned here. Why because we as providers cant keep track of all the ingredients involved and adjust the timing in our heads in your 20 minute appointment. The charts that 'recommend' when you should get vaccines are published by the FDA and updated when vaccine recipes are changed, or new vaccines added... again because of the very concern you have just listed here.
Does your cost benefit analysis then also include the cost in time to drive to and from the Hospital or the deductible for the week or longer stay if you child does get sick? Does it also include that since you chose not to vaccinate, something covered by your insurance they CAN deny coverage and reimbursement for said sickness because it WAS preventable (something still legal under Obama's reform)?
I'm quite sure those costs in time and money are more than the ones you have mentioned. So I guess it comes back to your risk analysis... are they more likely to get it or not. Then you have to balance that chance vs, the cost of of care if they do become ill.
I don't vaccinate my kid. Not because I'm afraid of autism (as noted before, the autism link is flat out not there). But because the risks on either side are so minimal that I don't see the point.
The odds of my kid being exposed to, say, pertussis are about 10%. The odds of her contracting the disease (ie the bacteria taking hold and causing symptoms) is about 0.5%. The odds of her having a serious case of the disease (involving hospitalization) is about 0.01%. The odds of her having any sort of permanent disability/harm are about 0.005%. And the odds of death are about 0.0001%.
In contrast, the odds of having a mild reaction (mild fever, cold/flu symptoms, localized swelling) to a pertussis vaccine are about 1%. The odds of having a major reaction (lengthy illness, actually getting pertussis, etc) are about.01%. The odds of having a major allergic reaction to the vaccine are about.008%. The odds of having brain swelling, fever that causes brain damage, or other severe outcomes is about 0.005%. And the odds of death are about 0.00005%. And even with the vaccine, the odds of her still contracting the disease are about 2%--with all the odds of the above multiplied by a factor of.02.
In short, the risk involved in either course of action is ridiculously small--similar odds with winning the Lotto. BUT getting the vaccine costs me money, time (a trip to the doctor), possible fear of the doctor (something I don't want her to be afraid of) and discomfort/pain to my child.
I've weighed the risks. I've done a cost/benefit analysis for both courses of action. And I (and my wife) choose not to vaccinate. And yes, we have done similar comparisons for each and every vaccine that is offered, from the Diptheria, Pertussis, Tetanus (DTaP) vaccine to the HPV vaccine to the Chicken Pox/Varicella vaccine. And none of them make a definitive case that vaccination is orders-of-magnitude better than non-vaccination.
I have not ruled out the possibility that I will reevaluate that cost/benefit and risk analysis at some later stage in her life (say, when she goes to pre-school) and come to a different conclusion.
So again, I ask, what in all these odds and risks and everything, makes me evil for not vaccinating my child?
Just to share the "thought" between most of the Medical providers I work with is: When it comes to statistics everything is really remote in Medicine, but while you might be the.01% to the rest of the world, it's 100% to you.
So for you the risk may be.02% but if your child does get it and is horribly ill or dies... from there point of view it's 100% and YOU could have prevented them from experiencing it.
"Very little" for whom? A 3 week old infant? And who says it is "very little"? The corporation selling the drugs? Give me a break, there is a reason they no longer make vaccines with mercury. They got caught and called out on it and now they use a different process.
You are missing his entire point that true risk involved here is based on a comparisons between daily environmental exposures and those specific to the vaccine. Not on the vaccine compared to the size and mass of the child.
Whether the kid is 3 wks or 3 yrs doesn't change how much it is exposed to in the daily environment (unless of course the kid is in a NICU or PICU, but that's a different beast).
We do this already. Most states do not allow non-vaccinated children to attend public schools. Thus they are quarantined form the population.
The proposed bill above would allow the state to continue to quarantine those people choosing not to get vaccinated, by no longer waiving the bar to accessing public education for those with Philosophical reasons. (i.e. People say is philo reason for not getting, they are waived and allowed into school w/o vaccination).
This bill does not FORCE or Regulate anyone into getting vaccinated. Parents still have a choice. The choice is a) Vaccinate attend Public school b) Do Not vaccinate attend home-school or private school who will accept. **Notice no where is it required for them to be vaccinated or is the a fine, tax, or legal recourse for choosing not to.
Because your lack of exercise and overweight situation while pregnant with your precious snowflake had nothing to do with them developing the autism. Nor did your crumb inbreed genes, or the fact that you waited till your 30's or 40's to have a child because your "can't promote sex by giving education" school district never taught sex-ed and just quickly and severely eggs start to go down in quality beginning in their 30s. heck by the time you 45 you have a 1 in 8 chance of having Trisomy 21 alone. (Not to include numerous other Trisomys or Autism)./trolling & sacasm off
It's sad and ironic that considering the prevalence of overweight Americans, and just much later in life they weight to have children, these people "protecting their kids" from Autism by not vaccinating are more likely to have a child with autism just do t their life choices or poor genes.
Thanks for the flood of responses.
Hulu and Netflixs so my wife can watch her shows, I'd use it mostly for silly DRM based games, Steam purchases, and Anime torrents. So bandwidth could be an issue, I don't want to step on someones donated bandwidth, nor do I wish to be cut of by the service.
As for the safe, it was a question of gross data security (I should have specified) more of specifics. I had found some reviews suggesting some services were sifting data over their devices for CC data and other financial data (i.e. Steam Purchase or direct download of software).
The Torrent Freak article was a very helpful link should I decide to do that vs a hosting service and OpenVpn.
Again, Thanks everyone.
Slashdot Mirror
And don't forget the studies that have shown the hazards of injecting aluminum into your blood. A single vaccine in an adult may not be very much aluminum, but when it's a 2 or 3 month old infant and they want to stick 6 or more vaccines into them at once, all with their own dose of aluminum, it adds up. The studies to see what level of aluminum is safe for an infant have not been done. Then you also see stories like that cheerleader that got all messed up.
You are ignoring the fact that vaccines are spread our and children only get certain vaccines at certain points in life to prevent the very thing you bring up. Skipping vaccines and forcing us providers to attempt to adjust a "catch up" schedule for you actually places your child at more risk for what you have mentioned here. Why because we as providers cant keep track of all the ingredients involved and adjust the timing in our heads in your 20 minute appointment. The charts that 'recommend' when you should get vaccines are published by the FDA and updated when vaccine recipes are changed, or new vaccines added... again because of the very concern you have just listed here.
Does your cost benefit analysis then also include the cost in time to drive to and from the Hospital or the deductible for the week or longer stay if you child does get sick? Does it also include that since you chose not to vaccinate, something covered by your insurance they CAN deny coverage and reimbursement for said sickness because it WAS preventable (something still legal under Obama's reform)?
I'm quite sure those costs in time and money are more than the ones you have mentioned. So I guess it comes back to your risk analysis... are they more likely to get it or not. Then you have to balance that chance vs, the cost of of care if they do become ill.
I don't vaccinate my kid. Not because I'm afraid of autism (as noted before, the autism link is flat out not there). But because the risks on either side are so minimal that I don't see the point.
The odds of my kid being exposed to, say, pertussis are about 10%. The odds of her contracting the disease (ie the bacteria taking hold and causing symptoms) is about 0.5%. The odds of her having a serious case of the disease (involving hospitalization) is about 0.01%. The odds of her having any sort of permanent disability/harm are about 0.005%. And the odds of death are about 0.0001%.
In contrast, the odds of having a mild reaction (mild fever, cold/flu symptoms, localized swelling) to a pertussis vaccine are about 1%. The odds of having a major reaction (lengthy illness, actually getting pertussis, etc) are about .01%. The odds of having a major allergic reaction to the vaccine are about .008%. The odds of having brain swelling, fever that causes brain damage, or other severe outcomes is about 0.005%. And the odds of death are about 0.00005%. And even with the vaccine, the odds of her still contracting the disease are about 2%--with all the odds of the above multiplied by a factor of .02.
In short, the risk involved in either course of action is ridiculously small--similar odds with winning the Lotto. BUT getting the vaccine costs me money, time (a trip to the doctor), possible fear of the doctor (something I don't want her to be afraid of) and discomfort/pain to my child.
I've weighed the risks. I've done a cost/benefit analysis for both courses of action. And I (and my wife) choose not to vaccinate. And yes, we have done similar comparisons for each and every vaccine that is offered, from the Diptheria, Pertussis, Tetanus (DTaP) vaccine to the HPV vaccine to the Chicken Pox/Varicella vaccine. And none of them make a definitive case that vaccination is orders-of-magnitude better than non-vaccination.
I have not ruled out the possibility that I will reevaluate that cost/benefit and risk analysis at some later stage in her life (say, when she goes to pre-school) and come to a different conclusion.
So again, I ask, what in all these odds and risks and everything, makes me evil for not vaccinating my child?
Just to share the "thought" between most of the Medical providers I work with is: When it comes to statistics everything is really remote in Medicine, but while you might be the .01% to the rest of the world, it's 100% to you.
So for you the risk may be .02% but if your child does get it and is horribly ill or dies... from there point of view it's 100% and YOU could have prevented them from experiencing it.
Something to think about... we do (providers).
"Very little" for whom? A 3 week old infant? And who says it is "very little"? The corporation selling the drugs? Give me a break, there is a reason they no longer make vaccines with mercury. They got caught and called out on it and now they use a different process.
You are missing his entire point that true risk involved here is based on a comparisons between daily environmental exposures and those specific to the vaccine. Not on the vaccine compared to the size and mass of the child.
Whether the kid is 3 wks or 3 yrs doesn't change how much it is exposed to in the daily environment (unless of course the kid is in a NICU or PICU, but that's a different beast).
You've broken and axle and Mary dies of Typhoid. Do you wish to ford the river or float the river to the next Fort?
We do this already. Most states do not allow non-vaccinated children to attend public schools. Thus they are quarantined form the population.
The proposed bill above would allow the state to continue to quarantine those people choosing not to get vaccinated, by no longer waiving the bar to accessing public education for those with Philosophical reasons. (i.e. People say is philo reason for not getting, they are waived and allowed into school w/o vaccination).
This bill does not FORCE or Regulate anyone into getting vaccinated. Parents still have a choice. The choice is a) Vaccinate attend Public school b) Do Not vaccinate attend home-school or private school who will accept. **Notice no where is it required for them to be vaccinated or is the a fine, tax, or legal recourse for choosing not to.
/trolling & sarcasm on
Because your lack of exercise and overweight situation while pregnant with your precious snowflake had nothing to do with them developing the autism. Nor did your crumb inbreed genes, or the fact that you waited till your 30's or 40's to have a child because your "can't promote sex by giving education" school district never taught sex-ed and just quickly and severely eggs start to go down in quality beginning in their 30s. heck by the time you 45 you have a 1 in 8 chance of having Trisomy 21 alone. (Not to include numerous other Trisomys or Autism). /trolling & sacasm off
It's sad and ironic that considering the prevalence of overweight Americans, and just much later in life they weight to have children, these people "protecting their kids" from Autism by not vaccinating are more likely to have a child with autism just do t their life choices or poor genes.
Thanks for the flood of responses. Hulu and Netflixs so my wife can watch her shows, I'd use it mostly for silly DRM based games, Steam purchases, and Anime torrents. So bandwidth could be an issue, I don't want to step on someones donated bandwidth, nor do I wish to be cut of by the service. As for the safe, it was a question of gross data security (I should have specified) more of specifics. I had found some reviews suggesting some services were sifting data over their devices for CC data and other financial data (i.e. Steam Purchase or direct download of software). The Torrent Freak article was a very helpful link should I decide to do that vs a hosting service and OpenVpn. Again, Thanks everyone.