Where is 33N77W. I don't see it marked on the ground anywhere. This map is DEFECTIVE!
I guess you've never seen one of those human figures with the lines and points marked that are used to teach acupuncture.
I understand that even after shaving a person's head, the neurosurgeon doesn't see the parts of the brain drawn on the scalp either. I don't know about you, but I don't typically see air. It's only recently that we could even vaguely image atoms. However, predictable effects premised on the existence of atoms were quite enough to convince us they existed long before.
Acupuncturists maintain that they can locate meridian points and that those have some effect beyond a random point on the body. The research put that to the test and found that at least for that one point, it's true. It's just one more thing we can't image but that apparently can be found and manipulated for a predictable effect.
If you told me it's inconvenient to address the As someone who drives on the interstate, I frequently see cars on the side long enough to be tagged for impound with no evidence of being hit.
I don't even know what that was supposed to mean. Wanna try again?
Or if the metal in the needles reacted with the interstitial fluids in the body and generated a small current. If you don't think that can happen, chew on some aluminum foil.
The people I was more or less chastising are the ones who were dismissing the study out of hand and steadfastly denying that there is any evidence at all for acupuncture.
Suppose a patient comes in for a routine checkup and the doctor finds an advanced cancer and the patient dies.
Then he is no longer in for a routine checkup. He was, in fact, circling the drain even if he didn't know it. Of course, if he made it in and knew nothing of the cancer, he won't likely die during that visit. By the time he does, his checkup will have been completed and he will have a referral to an oncologist.
Yes. Failure to take the patient's condition into account makes the grading useless. A doctor who loses a patient who was circling the drain on presentation should not be faulted. OTOH, losing a patient who was just in for a check-up should count HUGE.
Sure, but what of the top cardiac surgeon who loses half of his patients but the other half go on to a high quality of life lasting years longer? Sometimes aggressive treatment does offer a fair chance for meaningful recovery.
OTOH, an expensive cancer treatment that buys an extra month of agonized delirium and never results in remission is an example of excess aggression.
The study needs to be expanded upon, but it showed an effect. It was an effect that current models of physiology would call extremely unlikely (stimulate the shin, block stress hormones) but is predicted in the study of acupuncture.
It doesn't go far enough, but it does provide evidence. The people I was talking about here can plug their ears and dribble about how this or that are not perfect, but nevertheless, it does provide evidence. That is, it contributes to proof.
This is not skepticism. Skeptics accept evidence when it is provided.
So, 1.8% of an unlikely thing involves stalled cars on the side of the road. But he wasn't on the side of the road.
As someone who drives on the interstate, I frequently see cars on the side long enough to be tagged for impound with no evidence of being hit. I have never seen a car that was hit on the side of the road though I have heard of it.
There are dumb things you can do on the side of the road that can lead to fatalities like changing a tire with your butt sticking out into traffic, but that wasn't an issue here.
The police routinely pull people over to the side of the interstate.
I decided to spot check those and you failed on the first one, "Cherkin DC, Sherman KJ, Avins AL, Erro JH, Ichikawa L, Barlow WE, Delaney K, Hawkes R, Hamilton L, Pressman A, Khalsa PS, Deyo RA. A randomized trial comparing acupuncture, simulated acupuncture, and usual care for chronic low back pain. Arch Intern Med. 2009;169:858–66"
From that reference:
Symptoms improved by 1.6 to 1.9 points in the treatment groups compared with 0.7 points in the usual care group (P.05).
So, pretty weak results, but a hint of a suggestion that acupuncture was better than usual care.
Would you say it's dangerous to have your car stall on the highway? The answer is yes.
Quit trying to stuff words in my mouth. The answer is "not really".
So why would you intentionally put yourself or someone else in that position of danger?
Ask the author of TFA, he wasn't a random victim, he knew what they could do and that they would do it during his drive. He freely chose to drive the car for a demo. That includes washing the windshield and putting the transmission in neutral.
You call ME a moron? You think something keeps my mower from leaving my property (other than me holding it)? I wish you'd share the secret of that one so I could leave it outside without it getting stolen! Do tell, what's the trick?
That specific individual fired a handgun (with a limited range) safely into a hillside away from the public. That would be why the police don't believe he violated the law. We wouldn't even be hearing about it if he was holding it in his hand at the time. We wouldn't be hearing about it if it was clamped in a vice and he fired it using the same mechanism.
Do give a call when he flies that thing in a more public setting. No need to say there outta be a law in that case, there already is.
Yes, at a point that "just happens" to be what that ancient practice declared to be just the right point. Much like earlier FMRI studies showed that the visual cortex was affected by needles into the foot, but only at a point that "just happened" to be exactly the point the acupuncturists said was related to vision.
So how many "just happens" will it take for you? Will you continue to heap derision on each study that moves closer to proof?
So, the demand is show proof or go home. Proof shown and people fall all over themselves to ignore it. Still wonder why nobody bothers to look for proof?
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And you base that on what evidence?
This is one of many studies of acupuncture with positive results. Sorry if the evidence conflicts with your worldview.
Where is 33N77W. I don't see it marked on the ground anywhere. This map is DEFECTIVE!
I guess you've never seen one of those human figures with the lines and points marked that are used to teach acupuncture.
I understand that even after shaving a person's head, the neurosurgeon doesn't see the parts of the brain drawn on the scalp either. I don't know about you, but I don't typically see air. It's only recently that we could even vaguely image atoms. However, predictable effects premised on the existence of atoms were quite enough to convince us they existed long before.
Acupuncturists maintain that they can locate meridian points and that those have some effect beyond a random point on the body. The research put that to the test and found that at least for that one point, it's true. It's just one more thing we can't image but that apparently can be found and manipulated for a predictable effect.
If you told me it's inconvenient to address the As someone who drives on the interstate, I frequently see cars on the side long enough to be tagged for impound with no evidence of being hit.
I don't even know what that was supposed to mean. Wanna try again?
That's a tough question and I have no bright line test to answer it.
One telling point is surveys of oncologists. In those, most say they would not want the aggressive treatment themselves.
And yet, that one did. Perhaps the rats didn't read the same books you did?
It's the back surgery that has the trail of crippled bodies and lack of evidence behind it.
Or if the metal in the needles reacted with the interstitial fluids in the body and generated a small current. If you don't think that can happen, chew on some aluminum foil.
The people I was more or less chastising are the ones who were dismissing the study out of hand and steadfastly denying that there is any evidence at all for acupuncture.
Suppose a patient comes in for a routine checkup and the doctor finds an advanced cancer and the patient dies.
Then he is no longer in for a routine checkup. He was, in fact, circling the drain even if he didn't know it. Of course, if he made it in and knew nothing of the cancer, he won't likely die during that visit. By the time he does, his checkup will have been completed and he will have a referral to an oncologist.
Yes. Failure to take the patient's condition into account makes the grading useless. A doctor who loses a patient who was circling the drain on presentation should not be faulted. OTOH, losing a patient who was just in for a check-up should count HUGE.
Sure, but what of the top cardiac surgeon who loses half of his patients but the other half go on to a high quality of life lasting years longer? Sometimes aggressive treatment does offer a fair chance for meaningful recovery.
OTOH, an expensive cancer treatment that buys an extra month of agonized delirium and never results in remission is an example of excess aggression.
It's not a matter of can or cannot be tested, it's a matter of is or is not tested. How many pounds do you want the test booklet to weigh?
The study needs to be expanded upon, but it showed an effect. It was an effect that current models of physiology would call extremely unlikely (stimulate the shin, block stress hormones) but is predicted in the study of acupuncture.
It doesn't go far enough, but it does provide evidence. The people I was talking about here can plug their ears and dribble about how this or that are not perfect, but nevertheless, it does provide evidence. That is, it contributes to proof.
This is not skepticism. Skeptics accept evidence when it is provided.
So, 1.8% of an unlikely thing involves stalled cars on the side of the road. But he wasn't on the side of the road.
As someone who drives on the interstate, I frequently see cars on the side long enough to be tagged for impound with no evidence of being hit. I have never seen a car that was hit on the side of the road though I have heard of it.
There are dumb things you can do on the side of the road that can lead to fatalities like changing a tire with your butt sticking out into traffic, but that wasn't an issue here.
The police routinely pull people over to the side of the interstate.
True, but she seems to be able to find employment, just not at Google. Perhaps she doesn't get along with Google interviewers.
I decided to spot check those and you failed on the first one, "Cherkin DC, Sherman KJ, Avins AL, Erro JH, Ichikawa L, Barlow WE, Delaney K, Hawkes R, Hamilton L, Pressman A, Khalsa PS, Deyo RA. A randomized trial comparing acupuncture, simulated acupuncture, and usual care for chronic low back pain. Arch Intern Med. 2009;169:858–66"
From that reference:
Symptoms improved by 1.6 to 1.9 points in the treatment groups compared with 0.7 points in the usual care group (P .05).
So, pretty weak results, but a hint of a suggestion that acupuncture was better than usual care.
Right. Read TFA! I suppose we'll find out eventually as the wheels of justice grind on.
Would you say it's dangerous to have your car stall on the highway? The answer is yes.
Quit trying to stuff words in my mouth. The answer is "not really".
So why would you intentionally put yourself or someone else in that position of danger?
Ask the author of TFA, he wasn't a random victim, he knew what they could do and that they would do it during his drive. He freely chose to drive the car for a demo. That includes washing the windshield and putting the transmission in neutral.
You call ME a moron? You think something keeps my mower from leaving my property (other than me holding it)? I wish you'd share the secret of that one so I could leave it outside without it getting stolen! Do tell, what's the trick?
That specific individual fired a handgun (with a limited range) safely into a hillside away from the public. That would be why the police don't believe he violated the law. We wouldn't even be hearing about it if he was holding it in his hand at the time. We wouldn't be hearing about it if it was clamped in a vice and he fired it using the same mechanism.
Do give a call when he flies that thing in a more public setting. No need to say there outta be a law in that case, there already is.
Sure, this is what is known as a preliminary study to see if a larger and more expensive study is warranted. Apparently, it is.
What it is not is a good time for people to fall over themselves to deny that it shows anything at all. That's not skepticism.
Yes, at a point that "just happens" to be what that ancient practice declared to be just the right point. Much like earlier FMRI studies showed that the visual cortex was affected by needles into the foot, but only at a point that "just happened" to be exactly the point the acupuncturists said was related to vision.
So how many "just happens" will it take for you? Will you continue to heap derision on each study that moves closer to proof?
The appropriate comparison is with laproscopic (minimally invasive) surgery performed without the robot.
So, the demand is show proof or go home. Proof shown and people fall all over themselves to ignore it. Still wonder why nobody bothers to look for proof?
This isn't even the first evidence found.
And acupuncturists didn't have rubber gloves back then, they touched the needle with bare fingers.
I have a lawnmower. If I run you down with it, it will surely cause you grievous bodily harm. It can easoly go off of my property.
Fortunately I, like practically every owner of a lawnmower, only use it to mow my lawn.