Bull. Blackberrys require installing a program off of sourceforge called barry-utils. G15s require a different program. G9s require yet a third to fully access all the buttons. Many wifi cards historically required downloading the firmware. ATI graphics are notorious for not "just works"-ing. Even Intel NICs had huge issues (I believe kernel?) in Ubuntu 2 years ago (but if it was kernel as I recall, it would be all distros that shipped with that kernel before it was fixed).
Youre calling the wrong guy a "redmond hack"-- I love linux in many ways, but Ive used it too much to have any of these naieve "its perfect and has no flaws" assessments of it.
Given a brand new, totally blank PC, how long does it take for you to install Windows, and set it up how you want
Just did this on my laptop back in june-- dont remember why. Took all of about 1-3 hours to get completely in my zone, and it WASNT for things like "trying to get sound working"; it was mostly for installing the programs I want which takes about as long on either OS. Cant recall any major customizations I did other than SSD opts, moving the taskbar to the right and switching to mini-icons, changing the power policy, and changing what stuff is always visible in sys tray.
Again-- I actually like the Win7 interface, thats the reason I went for the upgrade from XP.
You should change your Windows Updates settings to not force a reboot, and to download but do not install--only notify. That way you could have the updates apply when you are done, do a reboot, they will finish installing, and you can shut down.
My understanding is that if you pause the updates ctrl z, and then reboot, you will possibly break the update system. Certainly dpkg doesnt like it, and I assume yum doesnt either.
But I applaud trying something "different" Face it, the UI design for Windows hasn't changed much since the 3.1 day
I dont totally disagree, but that doesnt mean they can do no wrong simply because theyre "trying". Ive spent years getting familiar with a certain interface, and now ive got to learn something new which, after about 10 minutes trying it, seems designed to infuriate me and frustrate my expectations. I fancy myself as being fairly technically inclined but I couldnt for the life of me figure out how to do a number of basic things, like adjust the power policy or IP addresses without going thru the control panel.
Im sure I will adjust, but that doesnt mean Im going to like it, and it may well mean that I just take my ball and go to Linux for a few years till sanity once more reigns in Windows UIs. And thats saying something, because as a student I get Windows 8 and Server 2012 for free thru dreamspark; theres literally no financial incentive one way or the other.
As an IT person looking at a client, yes, that would be something I would consider. As someone not wanting to have two jobs (one at home and one at work), I dont really care what the issue is, I care that installing Windows made my life easier.
For this same reason I am entertaining trying Linux rather than Windows 8 on my new build.
Just a follow up: it occurs to me that it would be kind of nice to run Linux on my home computer for a few days until I decide to install Win 8, and for the moment at least my only "killer app"-- VMWare Workstation-- runs natively on Linux.
What distro do you recommend? Im no dummy with Linux, I just dont want to spend hours trying to get things to a sane place.
Interesting, so you don't have the time to work efficiently any more?
I find the Windows 7 GUI to be quite efficient, along with its multi-monitor keyboard shortcuts, thanks. I had a bit of fun with Compiz and the cool multi-desktop things you could pull off, until I realized how much time I was spending trying to get things right.
At this point, Id rather have sane defaults than spend chunks of time trying to fix sound. Its great that others like Linux-on-the-desktop, and I am a fan of *nix on the server, I just dont want to deal with trying to get my favorite program or device to cooperate any more. Between hacks to get Logitech devices (G15, G9) working, hacks to get Ventrilo working, hacks to get my wonky Motherboard wifi working, hacks to get sound working, hacks to get Blackberry working, I kind of had enough. It would be great to live in a world where Linux had all the drivers for all these devices because the vendors played nice; tell me when we get there (and when they stop breaking the sound system every 6 months).
I did that, and most everything worked except for wireless. After several hacks, that started working.
Upgraded to 7.04; whoops, X is broken. Several hacks later, its working again.
Upgraded to 7.10; whoops Wine is broken, your G15 keyboard is broken. Several hacks later, its working again.
Upgraded to 8.04. Whoops, sound, flash, G15, and Ventrilo are all broken. X customizations ignored. Several hours (days?) later, we're back in business.
Upgraded to 8.10. Whoops, sound is broken. Several hours later we're back in business.
Upgraded to 9.10. Whoops, I got fed up and stuck my Windows 7 install disk. Hey look its working again.
Also, IIRC, with Windows it only interrupts the process (cleanly) if you do a reboot as its downloading / applying updates. As I remember, doing so on Linux tends to mess things up. (dont you have to run dpkg-clean or some such after interrupting the apt process?)
I love seeing posts like these where someone explains how great, easy, and trouble free their custom config of Linux is, but not where said distro can be downloaded on ISO.
Yes, I know Linux is wonderful if you spend 50 hours getting everything just right (I had to do it many times in the course of upgrading through the Ubuntu line), I just dont have that kind of time anymore.
I actually kind of like having the Office preview preinstalled, since with about 3 clicks you have a functional ad-supported version, or with 3 clicks can remove it, or 3 clicks can activate it with the product code that everyone generally has.
You see, the MAJORITY of people who get new computers actually WANT office on it, seeing as its one of the most popular computer programs out there. Would it be "easier" on the user if they had to go download the whole 500MB package?
Because Symantec and McAfee are businesses whose goal is to make money, regardless of how relevant they are. Theyre actually quite good at what they do, your mistake is thinking that "what they do" is to provide solutions.
Except third party ROMs arent available for all Android phones, so this is a poor response.
Quick, find me a ROM for the fairly recent (2011) Motorola Admiral. Oh wait, you cant, because there isnt one, and its still a terrible phone with terrible crapware on it.
What are you talking about? On single socket server boards, I can get about 10 different E3 CPUs. On 1155 socket, there are about 2-3 different SB i3s, 2-3 i5s, and 2-3 i7s, and the same number of IB processors. A single motherboard could hold them all, and a number of them are under $150.
Whats a terrible waste is throwing caution to the wind and profitizing capital punishment. You really want to live in a world where people wait in eager anticipation of the day they can get their hands on the organs in a convict's body?
More to the point, do you really want a pricetag stuck on someone's forehead as soon as the jury passes judgement?
What happens when all of the up-and-coming computer enthusiasts-- who tend to end up in computer fields-- all go AMD because Intel once again is a retarded enthusiast choice? You dont honestly think its a good idea to piss off the people who have the most say in what gets ordered for the office, do you?
If you get a current AMD motherboard, your choice of CPUs spans some 30-40 different options. If you get a current gen Intel one, it spans some 20-30 options.
Even on the server side, I could opt for a high core count on a socket, or budget, or low power draw, all on the same motherboard.
How many SATA III vs Sata II ports do you want? eSATA?
Do you want USB 3, how many?
Do you want Thunderbolt support?
How many PCIe lanes, and in what configuration? Any PCI?
How many memory slots, how many channels, and what speed?
What form factor?
Does it have onboard GPU? Support SLI, Crossover?
3-jack audio, or 7.1? Optical out?
PS2 keyboard, or USB only?
I could go on, but I think you get the point. I just finished building my new rig last week, and went for a $100 motherboard that has a number of USB3 ports, 1394, 2 eSATA, and a large number of SATA III ports, as well as a decent "BIOS" (technically uefi), and its by a reputable manufacturer. I could have cut the cost to $50 if I needed fewer options, or gotten a better one if I needed more.
I kind of like that choice, thanks. Not to mention, all the choice drives prices down-- limiting options is doubly bad for consumers, and I hope Intel pays for this attempt with lost sales.
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Bull. Blackberrys require installing a program off of sourceforge called barry-utils. G15s require a different program. G9s require yet a third to fully access all the buttons. Many wifi cards historically required downloading the firmware. ATI graphics are notorious for not "just works"-ing. Even Intel NICs had huge issues (I believe kernel?) in Ubuntu 2 years ago (but if it was kernel as I recall, it would be all distros that shipped with that kernel before it was fixed).
Youre calling the wrong guy a "redmond hack"-- I love linux in many ways, but Ive used it too much to have any of these naieve "its perfect and has no flaws" assessments of it.
Given a brand new, totally blank PC, how long does it take for you to install Windows, and set it up how you want
Just did this on my laptop back in june-- dont remember why. Took all of about 1-3 hours to get completely in my zone, and it WASNT for things like "trying to get sound working"; it was mostly for installing the programs I want which takes about as long on either OS. Cant recall any major customizations I did other than SSD opts, moving the taskbar to the right and switching to mini-icons, changing the power policy, and changing what stuff is always visible in sys tray.
Again-- I actually like the Win7 interface, thats the reason I went for the upgrade from XP.
You should change your Windows Updates settings to not force a reboot, and to download but do not install--only notify. That way you could have the updates apply when you are done, do a reboot, they will finish installing, and you can shut down.
My understanding is that if you pause the updates ctrl z, and then reboot, you will possibly break the update system. Certainly dpkg doesnt like it, and I assume yum doesnt either.
But I applaud trying something "different" Face it, the UI design for Windows hasn't changed much since the 3.1 day
I dont totally disagree, but that doesnt mean they can do no wrong simply because theyre "trying". Ive spent years getting familiar with a certain interface, and now ive got to learn something new which, after about 10 minutes trying it, seems designed to infuriate me and frustrate my expectations. I fancy myself as being fairly technically inclined but I couldnt for the life of me figure out how to do a number of basic things, like adjust the power policy or IP addresses without going thru the control panel.
Im sure I will adjust, but that doesnt mean Im going to like it, and it may well mean that I just take my ball and go to Linux for a few years till sanity once more reigns in Windows UIs. And thats saying something, because as a student I get Windows 8 and Server 2012 for free thru dreamspark; theres literally no financial incentive one way or the other.
As an IT person looking at a client, yes, that would be something I would consider. As someone not wanting to have two jobs (one at home and one at work), I dont really care what the issue is, I care that installing Windows made my life easier.
For this same reason I am entertaining trying Linux rather than Windows 8 on my new build.
Just a follow up: it occurs to me that it would be kind of nice to run Linux on my home computer for a few days until I decide to install Win 8, and for the moment at least my only "killer app"-- VMWare Workstation-- runs natively on Linux.
What distro do you recommend? Im no dummy with Linux, I just dont want to spend hours trying to get things to a sane place.
Interesting, so you don't have the time to work efficiently any more?
I find the Windows 7 GUI to be quite efficient, along with its multi-monitor keyboard shortcuts, thanks. I had a bit of fun with Compiz and the cool multi-desktop things you could pull off, until I realized how much time I was spending trying to get things right.
At this point, Id rather have sane defaults than spend chunks of time trying to fix sound. Its great that others like Linux-on-the-desktop, and I am a fan of *nix on the server, I just dont want to deal with trying to get my favorite program or device to cooperate any more. Between hacks to get Logitech devices (G15, G9) working, hacks to get Ventrilo working, hacks to get my wonky Motherboard wifi working, hacks to get sound working, hacks to get Blackberry working, I kind of had enough. It would be great to live in a world where Linux had all the drivers for all these devices because the vendors played nice; tell me when we get there (and when they stop breaking the sound system every 6 months).
I did that, and most everything worked except for wireless. After several hacks, that started working.
Upgraded to 7.04; whoops, X is broken. Several hacks later, its working again.
Upgraded to 7.10; whoops Wine is broken, your G15 keyboard is broken. Several hacks later, its working again.
Upgraded to 8.04. Whoops, sound, flash, G15, and Ventrilo are all broken. X customizations ignored. Several hours (days?) later, we're back in business.
Upgraded to 8.10. Whoops, sound is broken. Several hours later we're back in business.
Upgraded to 9.10. Whoops, I got fed up and stuck my Windows 7 install disk. Hey look its working again.
Because by and large web developers hate you and see it as their duty to load your CPU as much as they can.
You want someone to blame, blame the folks who see it as their duty to match JS engine improvements with more crap on the webpage.
I take the leap on Weds. I hope youre right, but till then Im saving up a healthy supply of loathing to last me the next several months with Metro.
Endless reboots=youre doing it wrong.
Also, IIRC, with Windows it only interrupts the process (cleanly) if you do a reboot as its downloading / applying updates. As I remember, doing so on Linux tends to mess things up. (dont you have to run dpkg-clean or some such after interrupting the apt process?)
I love seeing posts like these where someone explains how great, easy, and trouble free their custom config of Linux is, but not where said distro can be downloaded on ISO.
Yes, I know Linux is wonderful if you spend 50 hours getting everything just right (I had to do it many times in the course of upgrading through the Ubuntu line), I just dont have that kind of time anymore.
For the last 4 years or so, the viruses have been exploiting browser plugins. That would be the collective faults of Sun, Oracle, and Adobe.
The idea that Windows HAS to have AV and Macs are fine without is an idea I find, frankly, hillarious. Why, do tell, is OSX immune to zero-days?
But Mac comes with its own crapware preinstalled. Mac Mail, iTunes, Safari....
I actually kind of like having the Office preview preinstalled, since with about 3 clicks you have a functional ad-supported version, or with 3 clicks can remove it, or 3 clicks can activate it with the product code that everyone generally has.
You see, the MAJORITY of people who get new computers actually WANT office on it, seeing as its one of the most popular computer programs out there. Would it be "easier" on the user if they had to go download the whole 500MB package?
Youre calling Mac Mail "functional", are you?
Because Symantec and McAfee are businesses whose goal is to make money, regardless of how relevant they are. Theyre actually quite good at what they do, your mistake is thinking that "what they do" is to provide solutions.
Except third party ROMs arent available for all Android phones, so this is a poor response.
Quick, find me a ROM for the fairly recent (2011) Motorola Admiral. Oh wait, you cant, because there isnt one, and its still a terrible phone with terrible crapware on it.
Im pretty sure Windows 8 has that. Im pretty sure thats one of its selling points, actually.
What are you talking about? On single socket server boards, I can get about 10 different E3 CPUs. On 1155 socket, there are about 2-3 different SB i3s, 2-3 i5s, and 2-3 i7s, and the same number of IB processors. A single motherboard could hold them all, and a number of them are under $150.
Whats a terrible waste is throwing caution to the wind and profitizing capital punishment. You really want to live in a world where people wait in eager anticipation of the day they can get their hands on the organs in a convict's body?
More to the point, do you really want a pricetag stuck on someone's forehead as soon as the jury passes judgement?
What happens when all of the up-and-coming computer enthusiasts-- who tend to end up in computer fields-- all go AMD because Intel once again is a retarded enthusiast choice? You dont honestly think its a good idea to piss off the people who have the most say in what gets ordered for the office, do you?
If you get a current AMD motherboard, your choice of CPUs spans some 30-40 different options. If you get a current gen Intel one, it spans some 20-30 options.
Even on the server side, I could opt for a high core count on a socket, or budget, or low power draw, all on the same motherboard.
Absolutely. the amount of difference is huge:
I could go on, but I think you get the point. I just finished building my new rig last week, and went for a $100 motherboard that has a number of USB3 ports, 1394, 2 eSATA, and a large number of SATA III ports, as well as a decent "BIOS" (technically uefi), and its by a reputable manufacturer. I could have cut the cost to $50 if I needed fewer options, or gotten a better one if I needed more.
I kind of like that choice, thanks. Not to mention, all the choice drives prices down-- limiting options is doubly bad for consumers, and I hope Intel pays for this attempt with lost sales.