You seem to be under the assumption that the factory workers were living large and can afford to take a big cut.
Then find another job. I dont think ending the jobs of all hostess employees really helps the job market tho, seems to me it would just make it harder to get a good wage.
It really does seem like theyve gone a bit crazy.... heres a snippet from a bug report on the issue:
[dev gives reasons why it is impossible to probe for drivers to load prior to loading some pieces of firmware]
All that doesn't matter; do whatever you need to do, but load the firmware async, and continue to do the rest of the job when the firmware arrives, and do not block modprobe.
Unless Im misreading that, Kay is saying "i dont care that the thing Im asking you to do is impossible, just do i t anyways, because its more correct".
Im not a software dev, so maybe Im misreading this, but everyone seems to agree that what the udev folks are mandating is simply impossible in many instances.
From everything Ive heard, Windows 8 IS better, they just slapped an inexplicably horrendous UI on it. I havent heard any complaints from a technical perspective.
ExpertsExchhange is a wonderful source of free information. And the great thing is, due to their shenanigans-- wanting to be relevant in google search results-- they HAVE to keep the answer visible when you are referred from Google. If they display different results for the google spider and for your browser, theyll be delisted.
Its even better once you figure out that their entire site is indexed, and you can view any result for free: just google the exact question, and theyll be the first result.
But theyre not COUNTING the "capacity", theyre couting usage, and thus would want to count whats coming in to the DSLAM from your computer. Its not about where the scarcity is, but about the most accurate way to measure traffic-- which is at the first hop.
Depends on your ISP. When I call comcast (or cox?) telling them about packet loss, they arent too bad-- they generally get someone out to work on the cable pretty quick, and it usually helps.
Verizon-- even with business class t1-- will always immediately claim that it is your equipment, and generally be as obnoxious and unhelpful as they possibly can. My theory is that they hate their customers and genuinely want to be rid of them.
So lets say i have 0 technical knowledge, except I know that one character=1 byte. Is it OK for calculating the size of a word document, if I count the number of letters and assume thats the number of bytes? I mean, that might be what my mother would assume.
Reality doesnt have to conform to what the layman thinks. If it turns out AT&T is including TCPIP headers (almost CERTAINLY a reality), thats nothing to complain about. Layer 2 headers you MIGHT have a leg to stand on, since the size of those headers is up to AT&T and the encapsulation they use.
Margin on WHAT? The costs are minimal, it makes them no money since they dont charge per GB, and it opens them up to a massive fraud class action. Where are you thinking they get money from by overcalculating usage?
Hes not defending it, hes bringing perspective in. There is almost certainly some rationale for how they arrive at the numbers they do, and frankly "lets tack on 20% extra usage" sounds like a really stupid business decision.
That doesnt mean we're happy about the situation, though I dont get the feeling that caps are going away any time soon.
As has been pointed out, "how you measure data" is not as cut and dry as you make it. Do they include just the payload? Do they include the various encapsulations, retransmissions, and any dropped traffic (ie port 25) that might be coming from their house?
One person, say without much networking knowledge, might suppose that it is most reasonable to only measure the application-layer stuff: I download a 4096-byte file, thats 4KB towards my cap. A network engineer might have a completely different answer-- what about the TCPIP headers? What about the PPPoE encapsulation? Were there retransmissions between your router and the website, because the traffic was got lost on the second hop, and whose fault is that?
I agree that 20% sounds like an awful lot of overhead (especially in 2012)-- but Ive also seen a lot of posts like these where it turns out the person complaining is mistaken due to their ignorance of how the traffic flows. Parent is right to want more clarity on the issue, but Im not sure that will happen unless he can win a legal case. Its not surprising that AT&T isnt giving out info, ISPs tend to be pretty unhelpful when you call about anything more than "my internet is broken", and unless you have a business class line they are likely to fall back on a bunch of fine print you signed allowing them to classify internet. ISPs get away with DPI and blocking ports to stop spam, after all, and I dont think anyone has been successful in getting them to stop-- though with enough outcry over this they could well change their practices.
TL;DR: you want to change things, start a boycot. It worked with Comcast / SandVine, it worked with several ISPs and their data caps (verizon?), it will work here.
Er, if they measure the entire amount of data transmitted-- including L2 stuff that your router wouldnt use-- that would be an "absolute measurement", and it has been posited that that is what they are doing.
Having misread the post as being about cellular data, I take back the statement about monopoly (and thus most of my sentiment)-- but theres nothing to say that they arent technically measuring the exact amount of data transmitted from their house to the local DSLAM.
Maybe not the best example to back your claim up, since when buying parts "a gigabyte" is most certainly not "a gigabyte"-- hence the disclaimers on HDD boxes about sizes.
Because its their network. You cant even cry monopoly, there is competition.
Dont stroll into their network, accept their terms, and then start up about how you want their service to comply with your vision; the world doesnt work that way.
Im getting a piledriver. Just bought 32GB of RAM-- the goal is to have a box that can do some intense virtualization, like simulating an ESXi 5.1 cluster in Workstation.
Thats gonna need a lot of cores and some advanced AMD-V features, which I dont think that APU stuff provides.
Oh I see, because IQ is now the absolute measure of intelligence? Thats super interesting, especially when Wikipedia notes... The average IQ scores for many populations have been rising at an average rate of three points per decade since the early 20th century, a phenomenon called the Flynn effect. It is disputed whether these changes in scores reflect real changes in intellectual abilities.
The idea that you can assign a number to "intelligence" always made me laugh. How do you define it? Would the so called "rain man" be considered intelligent or not? What about people like Einstein, indisputably brilliant in their field but also with quite significant impairments when it comes to personal maintenance and relationships?
They will never beat Intel because intel is a generation ahead and has their own foundry, which means they have better parts, better economies, and better sales, which allow them to maintain their own foundry and stay a generation ahead.
They have their own chipsets, and every time Ive used one Ive regretted it. Im about to make another attempt in a week or so, but I have a feeling its going to come back to bite me.
AMD wasnt "doing well independently", why do you suppose they spun off GlobalFoundries? Theyve been getting stomped since ~2006 when the core2 came out and dominated AMD's lineup.
8 core processor on my desktop for $120? Yes please. "Not enough oomph"-- except on my desktop, where I have the ability to massively multitask while simultaneously nesting ESXi instances, all in a box that will cost under $500....
Seriously, what on earth does the average desktop user (those of us still alive) need with an Ivy Bridge processor? Lower power usage-- who cares? Faster single threaded performance-- except its already fast enough for 90% of desktop apps.
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You seem to be under the assumption that the factory workers were living large and can afford to take a big cut.
Then find another job. I dont think ending the jobs of all hostess employees really helps the job market tho, seems to me it would just make it harder to get a good wage.
It really does seem like theyve gone a bit crazy.... heres a snippet from a bug report on the issue:
[dev gives reasons why it is impossible to probe for drivers to load prior to loading some pieces of firmware]
All that doesn't matter; do whatever you need to do, but load the firmware
async, and continue to do the rest of the job when the firmware arrives, and
do not block modprobe.
Unless Im misreading that, Kay is saying "i dont care that the thing Im asking you to do is impossible, just do i t anyways, because its more correct".
Im not a software dev, so maybe Im misreading this, but everyone seems to agree that what the udev folks are mandating is simply impossible in many instances.
From everything Ive heard, Windows 8 IS better, they just slapped an inexplicably horrendous UI on it. I havent heard any complaints from a technical perspective.
Im a crook?
Seriously, how did this get modded insightful?
ExpertsExchhange is a wonderful source of free information. And the great thing is, due to their shenanigans-- wanting to be relevant in google search results-- they HAVE to keep the answer visible when you are referred from Google. If they display different results for the google spider and for your browser, theyll be delisted.
Its even better once you figure out that their entire site is indexed, and you can view any result for free: just google the exact question, and theyll be the first result.
But theyre not COUNTING the "capacity", theyre couting usage, and thus would want to count whats coming in to the DSLAM from your computer. Its not about where the scarcity is, but about the most accurate way to measure traffic-- which is at the first hop.
Depends on your ISP. When I call comcast (or cox?) telling them about packet loss, they arent too bad-- they generally get someone out to work on the cable pretty quick, and it usually helps.
Verizon-- even with business class t1-- will always immediately claim that it is your equipment, and generally be as obnoxious and unhelpful as they possibly can. My theory is that they hate their customers and genuinely want to be rid of them.
So lets say i have 0 technical knowledge, except I know that one character=1 byte. Is it OK for calculating the size of a word document, if I count the number of letters and assume thats the number of bytes? I mean, that might be what my mother would assume.
Reality doesnt have to conform to what the layman thinks. If it turns out AT&T is including TCPIP headers (almost CERTAINLY a reality), thats nothing to complain about. Layer 2 headers you MIGHT have a leg to stand on, since the size of those headers is up to AT&T and the encapsulation they use.
Margin on WHAT? The costs are minimal, it makes them no money since they dont charge per GB, and it opens them up to a massive fraud class action. Where are you thinking they get money from by overcalculating usage?
Hes not defending it, hes bringing perspective in. There is almost certainly some rationale for how they arrive at the numbers they do, and frankly "lets tack on 20% extra usage" sounds like a really stupid business decision.
That doesnt mean we're happy about the situation, though I dont get the feeling that caps are going away any time soon.
Mod parent (me) as having poorly read the OP. Saw it as being about cell service, apologies, etc.
As has been pointed out, "how you measure data" is not as cut and dry as you make it. Do they include just the payload? Do they include the various encapsulations, retransmissions, and any dropped traffic (ie port 25) that might be coming from their house?
One person, say without much networking knowledge, might suppose that it is most reasonable to only measure the application-layer stuff: I download a 4096-byte file, thats 4KB towards my cap. A network engineer might have a completely different answer-- what about the TCPIP headers? What about the PPPoE encapsulation? Were there retransmissions between your router and the website, because the traffic was got lost on the second hop, and whose fault is that?
I agree that 20% sounds like an awful lot of overhead (especially in 2012)-- but Ive also seen a lot of posts like these where it turns out the person complaining is mistaken due to their ignorance of how the traffic flows. Parent is right to want more clarity on the issue, but Im not sure that will happen unless he can win a legal case. Its not surprising that AT&T isnt giving out info, ISPs tend to be pretty unhelpful when you call about anything more than "my internet is broken", and unless you have a business class line they are likely to fall back on a bunch of fine print you signed allowing them to classify internet. ISPs get away with DPI and blocking ports to stop spam, after all, and I dont think anyone has been successful in getting them to stop-- though with enough outcry over this they could well change their practices.
TL;DR: you want to change things, start a boycot. It worked with Comcast / SandVine, it worked with several ISPs and their data caps (verizon?), it will work here.
Er, if they measure the entire amount of data transmitted-- including L2 stuff that your router wouldnt use-- that would be an "absolute measurement", and it has been posited that that is what they are doing.
Having misread the post as being about cellular data, I take back the statement about monopoly (and thus most of my sentiment)-- but theres nothing to say that they arent technically measuring the exact amount of data transmitted from their house to the local DSLAM.
I had misread the post as being about cellular data. With DSL, I can understand his complaint.
and a gigabyte is a gigabyte.
Maybe not the best example to back your claim up, since when buying parts "a gigabyte" is most certainly not "a gigabyte"-- hence the disclaimers on HDD boxes about sizes.
Because its their network. You cant even cry monopoly, there is competition.
Dont stroll into their network, accept their terms, and then start up about how you want their service to comply with your vision; the world doesnt work that way.
Im getting a piledriver. Just bought 32GB of RAM-- the goal is to have a box that can do some intense virtualization, like simulating an ESXi 5.1 cluster in Workstation.
Thats gonna need a lot of cores and some advanced AMD-V features, which I dont think that APU stuff provides.
You know, I just had a great idea for a reality TV show.
Oh I see, because IQ is now the absolute measure of intelligence? Thats super interesting, especially when Wikipedia notes...
The average IQ scores for many populations have been rising at an average rate of three points per decade since the early 20th century, a phenomenon called the Flynn effect. It is disputed whether these changes in scores reflect real changes in intellectual abilities.
The idea that you can assign a number to "intelligence" always made me laugh. How do you define it? Would the so called "rain man" be considered intelligent or not? What about people like Einstein, indisputably brilliant in their field but also with quite significant impairments when it comes to personal maintenance and relationships?
They will never beat Intel because intel is a generation ahead and has their own foundry, which means they have better parts, better economies, and better sales, which allow them to maintain their own foundry and stay a generation ahead.
They have their own chipsets, and every time Ive used one Ive regretted it. Im about to make another attempt in a week or so, but I have a feeling its going to come back to bite me.
AMD wasnt "doing well independently", why do you suppose they spun off GlobalFoundries? Theyve been getting stomped since ~2006 when the core2 came out and dominated AMD's lineup.
8 core processor on my desktop for $120? Yes please. "Not enough oomph"-- except on my desktop, where I have the ability to massively multitask while simultaneously nesting ESXi instances, all in a box that will cost under $500....
Seriously, what on earth does the average desktop user (those of us still alive) need with an Ivy Bridge processor? Lower power usage-- who cares? Faster single threaded performance-- except its already fast enough for 90% of desktop apps.
It's only a long sentence if you approve of the crime of commercial copyright infringement.
Well, youre posting on slashdot, so all bets are off.
This here is a troll thread. See how theyre all ACs? Just back away slowly and dont make eye contact, and you may yet escape with your life.
Also, all posters are the same person.