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WordPress To Accept Bitcoins
angry tapir writes "WordPress has said it will accept payment in bitcoins, opening up the blogging platform to payments from users in countries not supported by PayPal or credit card companies. WordPress is free, open-source software, but the company Automattic offers paid-for features such as blog designs, custom domains, hosting partnerships and anti-spam measures."
Yeah :-)
Is Paypal feeling threatened yet?
It's accepting Bitcoin "now" ;)
nothing.
Leads to desperate measures !!
Go T'wana !!
Yes, as you do while using your dollar cash.
So, are they petty, or large scale? Make up your mind, then post, otherwise the FUD doesn't work so well.
As if other currencies don't attract crooks and idiots..
Should we stop using all kinds of money or what?
The US dollar cannot succeed due to the violently idiotic community that has built itself around it.
From common con artists (Goldman Sachs, Enron) to large scale scale money laundering (Bank of America) the community is full of petty criminals.
Accepting USD is a mistake.
The people paying in dollars are all fucking crooks.
I read it as: "Wordpress directors can now buy drugs anonymously..."
There is a whole underground economy that could really take advantage of bitcoins. Now it might start with pot although it ends with people buying computers, electronics, hosting, and all sorts of legitimate merchandise. That drug money has to go somewhere. Eventually it ends up getting used for sanctioned purposes. If we start accepting bitcoins it'll get reported to the IRS. Taxes will be collected, and so on (I don't run an illegitimate business).
It's not a currency. It's a collectible.
Yeah, but a collectible with individually numbered items.
They are petty on a large scale. :-)
(Not the same AC, in case you wondered)
It's not a ponzi scheme.
Silk Road works just fine (I know several people who have bought drugs successfully using SR but I suppose the FBI is "just waiting to make a big bust" or whatever excuse you've got).
Why bitcoins? Why not donations?
Bitcoin will never be mainstream until we can buy a hotdog from a street vendor with it.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
They're using BitPay. Assuming BitPay's charges are reasonable, it seems like a bit of a no-brainer.
Wordpress makes some simple API calls to BitPay. If someone pays in BitCoin, BitPay converts it to dollars, takes a processing fee, and adds it to Wordpress's balance. Wordpress can treat it as dollars from that point on, so tricky tax/accounting issues.
On that basis, why would you *not* accept BitCoin, if you think there are customers keen to spend them?
BitPay has to deal with tax/accounting/legality issues, but that's their business.
Money laundering now seems to mean not paying the bank their 6%. I shift a lot of money around the world through some very questionable countries but as long as I pay the bank, no one minds. If I take a lot of cash onto a plane to avoid the bank fees I am a money launderer. It is BS and I no longer take it seriously, to me it is a challenge. I am not a criminal but I will do all I can to avoid paying stupid banks in other countries money that they do not deserve.
Does anyone understand how real money laundering works? It is easy and it does not have to move countries. Just get a shop and sell stuff. If you want to clean some money you sell more on paper than you really sold. It is that easy. You do not need to go to another country with a suitcase of cash, that is stupid.
I really want Bitcoin to become a reality because then I can save 6%. Now the people I work with all want Swift payments or Moneygram. I try to avoid Paypal and Western Union as they charge way too much.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Presumably all the early adopters in this Ponzi scheme have now cashed in
Probably not. About 65% of BTCs in use are owned by only 10,000 users. Why is it a Ponzi scheme?
"Why is it a Ponzi scheme?"
Because when the users realise that its never going to be taken seriously and try and offload their now worthless trinkets the value will start to collapse. The original speculators however will have already made their killing and be long gone.
I will pay you five billion bigsexyjoe nickels to stop running bitcoin stories.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
Is HSBC present in the countries you're operating? If you set up an HSBC Premier account in any of the countries it operates, you're automatically eligible to open HSBC Premier accounts in any of the countries it operates - without paying any fees. Then you can use GlobalView to log in in all the accounts at the same time and shift money without paying any fees.
You'll see, Bitcoin is gonna be mainstream before ya know it. And a big finger up into the air to all the naysayers and cynics here.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
arguing that the current regulated monetary system which regulated and supervised is the same as the bitcoin network is like comparing the criminal far west of 2 centuries ago with a moderately corrupt country today.
That some may profit at the expense of others doesn't make anything into a Ponzi. But don't take my word for it, here's what the European Central Bank's analysts have to say on why Bitcoin isn't a Ponzi scheme:
http://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf
"On the one hand, the Bitcoin scheme is a decentralised system where – at least in theory – there is no central organiser that can undermine the system and disappear with its funds. Bitcoin users buy and sell the currency among themselves without any kind of intermediation and therefore, it seems that nobody benefits from the system, apart from those who benefit from the exchange rate evolution (just as in any other currency trade) or those who are hard-working “miners” and are therefore rewarded for their contribution to the security and confidence in the system as a whole."
"Moreover, the scheme does not promise high returns to anybody. Although some Bitcoin users may try to profit from exchange rate fluctuations, Bitcoins are not intended to be an investment vehicle, just a medium of exchange. On the contrary, Gavin Andresen, Lead Developer of the Bitcoin virtual currency project, does not hesitate to say that “Bitcoin is an experiment. Treat it like you would treat a promising internet start-up company: maybe it will change the world, but realise that investing your money or time in new ideas is always risky”. In addition, Bitcoin supporters claim that it is an open-source system whose code is available to any interested party."
Can you lose your shirt if you invest heavily in Bitcoin? Yes. Can you get scammed by other users? Yes. Is the whole thing a Ponzi scheme? No.
You clearly don't understand how a Ponzi scheme works. Like, at all.
you do realize that bitcoin is mostly used by criminals for illegal transactions and by people who want to avoid income tax
And you know this.. how?
It is certainly used by criminals - like any other currency - but "mostly" is just baseless speculation.
Dilbert RSS feed
Denying that there are huge organisations doing money laundering with dollars, euros and other currencies is simply burying his head in the sand. I'm sick of hearing ppl dismissing Bitcoin because "it helps money laundering". Bitcoin exists because conventional money is now far too regulated. And of course because in the 21th century we need digital gold... let the fools play with paper money you can print at will...
The people paying in dollars are all fucking crooks.
What am I supposed to pay in, chickens?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Sorry to burst your bias against Bitcoin, but you are simply spreading FUD. The volume of trade does not exist to launder significant amounts of money. Aside from some drug sales (which still pale in comparison the sales made in UNTRACEABLE fiat on the street) I don't think what actually happens on the network is quite like what you think happens.Your highly regulated and supervised system is still the monetary system of choice to launder money. The Internationale crime syndicate really doesn't need the Bitcoin network, they are doing quite well as is.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/06/29/u-s-banks-still-very-involved-in-money-laundering/
Holy fuck Slashdot becomes the twilight zone before 8 AM EST. 80% of these posts are grade A crazy.
Gotta say, the FBI sells some damn good drugs if that's who is selling.
Two things need to happen first:
Abundant free energy, and energy-matter conversion on an industrial scale. That way everyone can have anything they want.
Yup. We pretty much need to live in Star Trek.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
here is one link that took me 3 seconds to google. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/fbi-fears-bitcoin/ it doesn't take an einstein to understand that criminals would rush to using unregulated and uncontrolled methods of payment/money etc. despite the fact that i'm moderated as troll, it's all of you who really are.
Note: I am not the GP.
It's possible that In some countries, alternative 'currency' systems like Bitcoin could be illegal and therefore using them within their borders would be criminal. Perhaps our friend lives in one of these countries?
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
straw man. I never denied that criminal activities happen with the current regulated currency. What i properly explained but you carefully avoided is that an unregulated and uncontrolled method of money is to the criminals just like honey for the bears. printing money is wrong, while on the other hand it's perfectly logical to create money out of thin air simply by gpu calculations ? and having one institution print money is wrong, having everyone do that with their gpus is right and it so much helps inflation. right.
The number of bitcoins is capped. That part of the scam is to give the early adopters a huge advantage if there are a large number of people that join in the pyramid.
Ok, I see you don't know the first thing about Bitcoin, too bad. Bitcoins can't be mined more than what has been defined on day one, no matter how many CPUs, GPUSs, FPAs, and (soon) ASICs you put at work. Nobody can do a heck about inflation in Bitcoin, no matter how large his resources. The (matematical) rules can be changed only id the majority of the network agrees to a new set. And guess what? Bitcoin is succesful *because* of that rules. Government money will always be scarce for someone (the majority of the people) and will always be printed at will by some other (a minimum minority). Bragging about criminal activities using Bitcoin is exactly the same as bragging about free speech. He who does not understand the importance of the latter can't understand the importance of the former.
There is no right to restrict a non official method of exchange. You seem to be demanding that we must go through channels to make a purchase of goods and services.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
oh so i don't understand the importance of free speech now? lol ? and how exactly is free speech related to bitcoins ? are you - in your paroxysm - insinuating that they are somehow relative ? trying to add value where there isn't any ?
So, we are supposed to take government propaganda as fact? Why should we let them have all the fun? What's good for the goose...
We have a right not to be tracked, regardless of your hysteria about 'criminals'.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
There is nothing special about the US dollar that the companies you mentioned couldn't do with bitcoin.
Now, I could agree with you if you wanted to talk about the dangers of a global economy tied to the monetary policy of a single country. We're starting to see the effect of a bit-player country (Greece) having on the Euro and the European Union.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
so by default whatever the governments say is propaganda and whatever the "revolutionaries" say is true. Sure, you want to remain anonymous, use cash. Would you use money printed by me instead of officially printed money (government) ? Do you know who benefits the most from anonymous money ? yeap you guessed right, the criminals, not normal citizens who fear that the government cares if they buy a 5'' dildo from a sex shop
Very possible, but omitting such an explanation is misleading at best.
Your link doesn't even attempt to assert that Bitcoin is used "mostly" by criminals.
"Moreover, the scheme does not promise high returns to anybody."
This is bullshit: the number of coins is limited systematically, so any extra dollar/euro/yenn, whatever put into the system will result in deflation: a higher exchange rate of bitcoin vs. the rest.
This makes it a deflationary currency, which are really bad for liquidity since in times of growth, the best investment is to get as much coins as you can since the exchange rate is guaranteed to go up. So how does it not promise high returns to anybody? I think there was some research shown that a very large percentage of the owners is saving the coins and not spending them.
I have no words except these: fare ye well.
Americans are guilty of this all the time.
I don't know if you can call it a scam when they cover that in their FAQ. Even if you disagree, they are transparent about it:
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Im a crook?
Seriously, how did this get modded insightful?
Wow, dude, you've really dominated this discussion so far with baseless accusation after baseless accusation. I'd call you a troll, but wow, you have too serious a hard-on over spewing your lies to count as merely a troll - You really seem to hate Bitcoin for some reason.
That said, your sincerity doesn't make you right. You should leave this topic alone until you learn the difference between "what I want something to be" and "what it is".
Far more criminals use cash than Bitcoin. It is stupid to suggest otherwise regardless of how many links you can provide.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
See what it's in response to.
Bitcoin has been hacked a lot I do not know if I would trust it to be legit just yet.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
I agree with you, except that they can't just "will" more of it into creation and give it to their friends.
Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
You still did not back up the statement that it is "MOSTLY used by Criminals".
You just gave us a link to a site that the FBI is "concerned", and provides little actual proof that it is being used.
In fact, the only "proof" was reported nerd-on-nerd crime of malware stealing bitcoins.
Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
You don't know what you are talking about.
Coins cant be made out of thin air. There is actuall limit on how many can be produced, it kills inflation idea in it straight away. This, what makes this idea so valuable.
I don't care who benefits most.. That's your issue, not mine. I simply wish to protect my right to use alternative methods of exchange. I couldn't care less if you approve. You're either trolling (and I grant you were successful in drawing me into your net), or being hysterical, and we shouldn't let your type dictate how we can live our lives. Don't try to play the 'nothing to hide' card on me.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
very simple correlation.
The more financially independent you are - the more free you are. Conventional money are plagued by inflation. Not quite the same with bitcoins.
With current inflation you are getting poorer than what you were in matter of years.
Things like pensions and saving money for later time - makes no sense. You are a bum? No one cares about what you have to say anymore.
Well, all scams claim to not a be a scam in their FAQ.
A brief analysis:
1. This question mentions only a "ponzi scheme" and makes no claim against being any other sort of scam.
2. The claimed benefit is for a "stable, fast, inexpensive, and widely accepted", currency. Bit coin is in fact none of those things. This indicates either ignorance or deceit on the part of the writer.
3. It completely fails to address the fact that bitcoin is designed to be deflationary, and that the well understood consequences of a deflationary currency lead to the situation that makes bitcoin look like a scam (the cheaply mined early coins will tend to increase in value even with minimal growth of the "economy").
Bitcoin has not been hacked. Not to my knowledge.
Bitcoin trade sites is not same thing as bitcoin. If all of them collapse suddenly in one go - there will be no harm to people who don't have any coins in them.
Would you use money printed by me instead of officially printed money (government) ?
It's not printed by you, it's printed by a decentralized Byzantine fault tolerant network of computers, where nobody can unilaterally decide how much to print at any time.
And you'd use it for many reasons: extremely cheap transfers, protection from inflation, security and others.
Do you know who benefits the most from anonymous money ?
Bitcoin is not anonymous, all transactions are publicly logged.
Dilbert RSS feed
A scam involves deceit. The early adopters didn't deceive anyone. If they benefit from speculators, good for them.
Dilbert RSS feed
Because a bunch of /.ers have a vested interest in seeing bitcoins succeed (read: they hoarded early bitcoins).
So, the guys at WordPress sell drugs now? Good to know.
Just another ignorant American.
Well yes, I could also get a hot teenage girl every night with the investment of a few bottles of vodka each week and hanging around drinking establishments looking for the girls that won't be let in because they are too young, but I choose not to do that either, because you can really fuck up the lives of other people doing things like that. The morality of getting in early in a pyramid scheme is about the same (and it's nowhere near early anyway, you are just treating me as a mark to inflate to value of your own ponzis).
Money laundering means the same thing it always has: hiding the origin of income.
In small quantities, it happens all the time, and nobody cares. This morning I found a coin on the street. It could have once been a part of a hitman's fee, or an investment fraud, or the purchase of an underage sex slave. I don't know, and that information's irretrievable now. It's just a coin.
It's the larger quantities that matter. A few hundred or thousand dollars a week can be easily lost in the noise of any business doing cash transactions, but it takes a pretty big shop to sell enough stuff to hide a multi-million-dollar drug deal. That's where the multiple countries and briefcases full of money comes in. The details of the money's origin still exists, but by being transferred through five countries, five different police organizations must be involved to investigate the connection.
Carrying cash in person to another country effectively ends the trail, because there's no indication whether the cash was spent locally on shell companies to launder it, or handed off to another courier to another country. By the time one country's gotten enough diplomacy worked out to continue the investigation wherever a plane lands, the suspect passenger has already landed and is likely long-gone.
Transferring money through a bank preserves the trail, and they'll often play nice with (and give records to) any law enforcement authorities. That's why no one minds if you transfer through them. It has nothing to do with paying a 6% fee to a global banking overlord. It's just that you seem to be going out of your way to be avoiding leaving a trail law enforcement could follow, and that raises suspicion.
When I traveled to Africa, I transferred money through a Barclay's account. They had a branch in the area I has going to, and I don't recall any significant fees.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Because it never promises that the price won't crash, or that the currency won't become worthless (I.E: $0) next month.
The developers have specifically warned users that this is an experiment that could go nowhere and that all money invested into it could be lost, so don't invest more than you are willing to lose. How is that "promising high returns"?
Your minions ran out of mod points?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Wao, didn't know I am a criminal.
Should i make love/hate tatoos on my knucles?
1. A Ponzi scheme is a specific type of pyramid scheme, and the only one that makes sense in this context. I was answering a claim that it is a pyramid scheme. It could be some other kind of scam, I suppose, but the grandparent did not make such a claim.
2. It is clear that they are expanding upon the "possible win-win outcomes", not making concrete predictions about the future.
3. If Bitcoin proves to be deflationary, it will fail. People do not part with things that increase in value. 10 years ago people were treating Beanie Babies like they were gold - a few months ago, my neighbor gave my kids a black yard bag full of them in mint condition - still had their tags! If people treat Bitcoins like Beanie Babies, they will fail as a currency.
I think Bitcoin could find a niche as a universal electronic exchange currency, if regulators allow it. My risk will be low because I won't hold on to it very long - just exchange dollars for Bitcoins, make my purchase, and hold little or no balance. I do this currently with a prepaid credit card... if Bitcoin can be made as easy to use as a prepaid credit card, it will do fine. If regulators decide to make it illegal to buy Bitcoins at Walgreens, it will fail.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Money is only worth something if you can spend it freely. I may be a bitcoin billionaire, but it's not gonna do be a bit of good unless my bank accepts them or I can get a reasonable exchange rate for actual currency.
I got here through a series of tubes
By default facts are true and everything else is suspect.
The You stated that Bitcoins (the untraceable currency) are used mostly by criminals.
It was pointed our to you that you have no facts to assert and are just making an unsupported statement.
You responded by linking to an article about what the FBI fears will/might happen.
You still have no facts. What percentage of Bitcoins are used for money laundering?
What percentage of US dollars are used for the same?
The truth is there are people who can just print US dollars when ever they want. Bitcoins No.
US dollars are easily counterfeited. Bitcoins not so much.
Get some facts. Then get some understanding. After that comment please. We would love to hear you informed comments on the subject.
Otherwise STFU.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Sites and people handling bitcoins have had their compters hacked - exactly the same thing that would happen if banks had the same low lever of security as these victims (and indeed, this has happened to banks as well). If someone breaks into a physical bank, or steals your wallet, would you call paper money "hacked"? This analogy is apt, btw, because bitcoin behaves a lot like paper money in many ways, and if you store your paper money where someone can nick it, it's bound to happen sooner or later.
The actual currency bitcoin has so far not been hacked. So, just like you don't ask any guy on the street to keep your money and keep it safe, you should only store your bitcoins with someone you actually trust - or have good security on your own (equivalent to having good locks on your home).
With a billion bitcoins, you don't really need a reasonable exchange rate, you just need an exchange rate.
<xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
And your point is? A collectible is a collectible. Does that mean my personally signed, limited edition discography with the number #823 / 1000 is any less valuable? If anything that increases the value
Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
"Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme and will NEVER be popular or mainstream, and I will continue to shout this mantra for any story on bitcoins on Slashdot. This includes stories that contradict my position - such as this one. As a tekkie of some sorts, I am still bitter that I never involved myself with bitcoin mining during the early days despite having the resources available at the time - and I will continue spewing this nonsense until this self-fulfilling prophecy becomes true. Either that or I work for a bank / paypal"
Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
Good point, time to start mining for fake money!
I got here through a series of tubes
No no, you've got it all wrong. Bitcoins will become popular as soon as hipsters become aware of it's existence. Right now, most hipsters aren't aware of bitcoins - the news feeds on their latest iGadget doesn't usually run stories on bitcoins. And they don't read "mainstream" techie sites like /. - they prefer to get their news from their local independent free magazines, and from carrier pigeons (which don't run stories on bitcoins).
But eventually one will hear about it, and when they do - they'll start foaming at the mouth and jump on that currency in a heartbeat! "Oh you still use dollar bills to buy things brah? That's so 2011. I only deal with BitCoins now. Yeah you've probably never heard of it - it's a pretty obscure currency - it's like, an only online currency dude. There's only a few places that actually accept them as a valid currency." And as he's telling his hipster friends at the local dive bar, sipping his locally brewed IPA (that his friends had to buy him, because the bar doesn't accept BitCoins yet) - his buddies will jump on the BitCoin bandwagon (but hopefully before it gets too mainstream) and hipsters will cash in on bitcoins like wildfire.
Now of course, retailers will realize this soon enough and realize they're sitting on a gold mine! All these hipsters will have bitcoins with nowhere to spend them, so every independent brewery, vintage clothing store, horn-rimmed eyeglass shop, pipe & tobacco company, scarf retailer and unsigned recording artist will immediately start accepting bit coins as a form of payment. And before we know it, bitcoins are mainstream and will be used everywhere. The only real losers here will be the hipsters after a year or two, who will be eventually disappointed when they realize bitcoins are totally mainstream now.
Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
It's used by speculators, drug users, and child pornographers.
There are a few geek uses, but there's almost no volume through those things.
At some point BitCoin will get a little bit big, and a bunch of people are going to get thrown in jail for breaking banking regulations and they'll use a RICO charge to round up some kiddie porn assholes, and they'll lump it all together.
The chances of BitCoin becoming useful are zero. It will only ever be a highly volatile, structurally broken toy for a certain class of nerd. Companies that accept payment in BitCoin are not doing it because they believe in bit coin: they're doing it because it's now really easy to do instant coin-> cash transactions with a spread. And doing so gets a whole shitload of inbound links.
In terms of usage by "criminals for illegal transactions and people who want to avoid income tax" (which for some reason, is not redundant or doubly so), I think USD tops the list. And I'm haven't even counted the investment banks, who are also doing a whole lot of stealing, just legally.
Seeing as how USD is such a huge vehicle for such nefarious activities, maybe we should avoid using the U.S. dollar too.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
A pretty big shop is called a mall. 10 years ago I walked into a mall at Thapae Gate in Chiang Mai which was owned by the now Prime Minister of Thailand. None of the shops where selling anything but the car park was full of staff cars, escalators working etc. like something out of a horror film. On paper the mall was trading. I also know of holiday resorts on Samui that do not have any guests, same thing. It is easy and it does not involve moving money travelling from one country to another.
Transferring money around the world is a red herring. It only happens in films. Why would anyone take extra risk to do something the hard way and create a bigger paper trail that is easier to find. If you want to clean more money spread the load and use more sites. More hotels or shops. Do not take the crazy idea of carrying it through customs. That is for fools like me who have hard earnt money that they do not want to pay to transfer.
If you do want to carry money across a border, small gold coins in your jacket do not show up as anything special or diamonds are best for large amounts. Big bundles of cash shows up on the xray machine and lots of foil strips are distinctive. They will see it. They will see the gold coins but they will not know they are gold, they will just see coins. They will not see the diamonds if they are in your pocket and not xrayed. Diamonds and gold do not set off the alarms.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Oh but of course it's not the same, Bitcoin is by far technologically superior. It natively deactivates the standard international trading methods that generate ridiculous amounts of revenue for banks and financial institutions, while providing encryption and ease of use. The only conflict I see is with companies like Western Union, who make quite a business of transferring money between locations and businesses.
I don't know of a single instance where 'bitcoin has been hacked'. If you know of one, please mention it instead of spreading FUD. Some websites that offer bitcoin services have been hacked, but that's the same for all websites on earth.
There's no promise of any kind. That's rather important.
A ponzi scheme would be where an operator enrolls investors by promising high interest rates on their investments, lacking the ability to actually pay everyone in full. Such a scheme typicalyl runs until enough people decide to withdraw their investment that the operator decides they can't afford the payouts and instead defaults and runs off with the money.
Bitcoin has no operator making promises. The protocol itself makes no promise of profits for investors. The developers have quite explicitly stated treating Bitcoin as an investment is risky. Furthermore, while the experiment that is Bitcoin may well fail some time in the future, it is not obvious to an impartial observer that it will. A Ponzi scheme is inherently unsustainable, in a way obvious to anyone willing to ignore their greed. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is an unknown, a risky investment, but openly so.
I get the feeling you have a beef with how early adopters are rewarded more than later users, and that's why you're saying Bitcoin is a Ponzi. Early adopters *are* rewarded, assuming the system doesn't crash and burn. That's no secret. It's part of the design. The idea is that there needs to be an incentive to get people to commit to the system, to make it costly to let it fail. The longer the system runs and grows, the less risky it should get to pump funds into it. Accordingly, the rewards for doing so will diminish as well.
Whether the rewards reaped by old-timers are reasonable or not is a matter of constant debate, and several forks of the system exist largely because of disagreements on this point. Personally, I don't think in the long run it will matter much. If Bitcoin fails for one reason or another, the early adopters will lose their investment. If it doesn't, they'll be rich, but continued operation of the system will be proof it didn't make much of a difference that a few individuals got very wealthy off the backs of later adopters.
Like dollars or gold.
It was in response to a post that rightfully got modded flamebait. The problem is, it was equally flamebait, but because it was anti-corporation and pro-bitcoin, it got modded up.
That depends on what you mean by "hack". A careful review of
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
shows that it is quite possible to attack Bitcoin but I know of no instance of someone moving coins without the corresponding private key.
Now every script kiddie out there will be able to steal your bitcoins in addition to turning your website into a phishing page.
Do you have any idea how many phishing and malware links have wp-admin, wp-content, or wp-includes in the URL?
Take a look for yourself at Phishtank.com!
How can it not be deflationary?
- There is a hard limit on how many bitcoins can be made.
- Once a bitcoin is lost (for example in a hard drive crash), there's no way to replace it.
- Even if no bitcoins are ever lost, just the presence of economic growth (which hopefully won't entirely disappear) will make any currency that has a hard limit deflate. Controlled government-induced inflation of currencies over time is a feature. Seeing it as a bug is arguably the greatest fallacy of the BC supporters.
I don't think a lot of people question bitcoin's deflationary nature. Subject of debate is
- what are the consequence of this deflationary nature?
- should something be done about it?
- what?
- what are the consequences of doing something about it?
<opinion>
Most of the scenarios I see spell doom for BC:
- Nothing changes --> deflation --> doom
- Attempt to inflate it --> not everyone agrees on how --> war of the BC forks --> confidence in decentralized digital currencies devastated --> government-backed schemes like MintChip snatch the price
- Entity X somehow (?) succeeds to induce controlled inflation without triggering fork wars --> people realize just how much power they're putting in the hands of Entity X - decide a large democratically-elected government can be trusted better --> MintChip
- BC somehow becomes a runaway hit --> existing traceability-based economy, system of taxes, law enforcement, option trading,... threatened --> legislative crackdown --> MintChip
</opinion>
A pretty big shop is called a mall. 10 years ago I walked into a mall at Thapae Gate in Chiang Mai which was owned by the now Prime Minister of Thailand. None of the shops where selling anything but the car park was full of staff cars, escalators working etc. like something out of a horror film. On paper the mall was trading. I also know of holiday resorts on Samui that do not have any guests, same thing. It is easy and it does not involve moving money travelling from one country to another.
How is setting up a storefront mall easy? Or more pertinently, how is using BC not orders of magnitude easier?
Here's a more elaborate explanation on why deflation is inevitable
Having set up several businesses, I fail to see your first question. It takes money, and we are talking about a situation where an excess of money is the problem. So of course it is easy.
Your second point is strange because Bitcoins do not in any way clean the money, they only transfer the money which still has to be cleaned in some way. If the IRS arrive at your house asking for an explanation with regard to the $6m that you just bought your new house with, they are not yet asking how it got from one place to another, they first want to know how your earnt it and if you you have paid tax on it. If you follow my advice then you will not have a problem, in fact you will not even get asked as you will have paid the tax but if you use Bitcoin you have not done anything to answer the questions. All you have done is avoided paying the bank the 6% transfer fee.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
It could be argued quite correctly that any scam that does not call the vehicle for the scam a "ponzi" is not actually a ponzi scam. However, the normal usage is that if somebody calls something a "ponzi scam" they mean "similar to a ponzi scam". I hope that has cleared that up and I wish you success at learning English, I'm told it's a difficult language to learn if you are not raised with it. I hope you really are somebody with English as a second language and not just somebody pretending to be incredibly stupid just so that you can pretend you've won some sort of childish debating game.
Yeah, except you can't eat dollars or drive to work on a stack of notes.
A smart guy like yourself should have no problem telling a dumbass like me exactly what kind of scam Bitcoin is, then. I like how, in your country with native English, you don't capitalize proper names.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
How can it not be deflationary?
I'd agree with your sentiment if Bitcoins were liable to replace a nation's currency. IMHO, they will never be more than a convenient exchange medium for niche transactions, and thus won't necessarily need to inflate unless their usage grows. If they get popular, I expect competition to arise, which would further keep their value in check.
- Nothing changes --> deflation --> doom
I agree that if it does continue to rise in value it is doomed as people will simply hoard it, reducing it's utility. Then.... crash! Oddly, it might then become useful if the system survives.
- Attempt to inflate it --> not everyone agrees on how --> war of the BC forks --> confidence in decentralized digital currencies devastated --> government-backed schemes like MintChip snatch the price
I fully expect competition to arise if Bitcoin is successful, and I expect this will help keep the value of Bitcoin in check. People SHOULD have their confidence in any currency devastated - you should not be holding on to a lot of currency, no matter the form. On the other hand, confidence in the short-term stability of a currency is indeed critical, and Bitcoin could very well be doomed to wild swings without a central authority to stabilize it.
- Entity X somehow (?) succeeds to induce controlled inflation without triggering fork wars --> people realize just how much power they're putting in the hands of Entity X - decide a large democratically-elected government can be trusted better --> MintChip
Agreed that doesn't seem likely.
- BC somehow becomes a runaway hit --> existing traceability-based economy, system of taxes, law enforcement, option trading,... threatened --> legislative crackdown --> MintChip
Also a possibility - though I think the fact that Bitcoin is more traceable than cash works in its favor here.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
It's a pity I didn't bookmark a very well written AC's comment that got modded up to 5 in the last bitcoin discussion, but it's main point was about the built in deflation.
I bought my new computer entirely using my bitcoin stash, I also use it to send currency to friends overseas for a 0.05% equivalent fee.
U Mad Bro?
I agree that, if used as the sole currency for a given GROWING economy, it will inherently increase in value.
However, I do not agree that Bitcoin will necessarily represent a growing part of the economy once it matures. In fact, if it is successful I expect competition to actually reduce it's use. If it isn't successful, then it doesn't really matter what happens to it :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
nope.
I got here through a series of tubes