"Otaku" is a Japanese word that can mean "house", but has coloquially come to mean an obsessive nerdish person who never leaves their house, and has been given to certain types of military, music, game, and comics fanatics. Here in the US it is used (in inner anime circles) to refer lovingly to the anime obsessed. One of the larger US anime conventions, which I always attend because of my healthy Otaku status, is Otakon, "Convention of Otaku Generation".
A native speaker could probably give a clearer definition.
I apologize; I thought he was referrring to the JDK. Yes, I have looked at IBM in the last year;-) and I'm looking forward even more to what they'll be doing *this* year. Eventually they will be the people to go to, not Sun, for the basic Java tools. Especially with their interest in Linux.
Whoever thought that IBM, of all companies, would be not only supporting, but developing for, open source? I'll bet Gates is just *fuming*.
"It's an exciting time to be alive!" - Tank, The Matrix
I want to sincerely thank you for responding in that mature manner. I am very willing to accept Java's weaknesses, but I currently have a real problem with the trolling ACs that bash Java for no reason.
I can see by this post that you do indeed know what you are talking about. I only with that you had said all of this in your original post. I would have even moderated you up, becase even though I disagree, you put some good reasoning behind your arguments.
And about your responses to my insults... I'm not insulting the intelligence of |deity|, the person who wrote that very intelligent post just now. I *will* however insult the intelligence of the AC who screams in CAPS that Java "sucks" and "blows". You say "I'm sorry if I offended you with my opinion". I was not at all offended by your opinion, I was merely offended by your method of delivering it.
Perhaps I was a bit to quick to flame. But please, in the future, avoid that AC style that you can see the moderators were quick to shove down to (Score: -1, Troll). If you had posted in your later manner in the first place, you probably would have gotten a (Score: 3, Insightful), at least.
Since you have, as requested, backed up your arguments, I hereby recant my previous flames and apologize for my quickness to respond that way. But I will stand by my criticism of the manner in which you first posted. That is what I look down upon.
Now that we have that out of the way , I will respons to your arguments.
I agree that Java is slow as hell compared to native languages and even many interpretive languages, I do not think that Java will ever have a place in standalone application programming. And for text processing, Perl is still the way to go. But Java has what I think to be the perfect mix of power, speed, and functionality for its current use in small WWW applets. Servlets still need a while to ripen.
I myself code in C, and I too first thought that Java was *extremely* verbose when I first saw the code. I've gotten used to it, but I get the feeling that its designers weren't planning on it being used as much as it is for applets. Too much code is required to do simple things for most WWW applets, IMHO.
I must disagree that Java is "dead". You say yourself later in the post that it is in widespread use. Java support is getting better all the time. Look at how much better the Java stuff for Linux has gotten. Java is anything but dead.
Servlets may very well change the way that WWW server-side code is thought of, if they haven't already. However this will require broad Java support for the underlying OS. Solaris, to no surprise, handles this best right now. Linux is getting there. *BSD is a long way off. NT... well, NT is crap anyway.
Java is still a very new technology. I'd give it a few more years before you write it off completely. Especially when you see how it can work so nicely with the next Technology of the Week, XML.
You mention that you're reading some books about Java currently. I'd recommend O'Reilly's servlet book, and most of the Wrox stuff.
You say that you saw my info and noticed that I'm a BSD person. That is very true. However I am even more of a Java person, and so I will probably be dumping BSD in the next month if I don't hear any good news about that Java 2 SDK. There was been far too little Java FreeBSD development for me to be optimistic. I'm going to go back to Linux (yes, I confess. I used Linux and loved it until FreeBSD rocked my world), at least until I see Solaris 8. The time has come to return to the Penguin. Linux is being supported by IBM now, IBM loves Java on Linux; and there's even an official Sun JDK for it. Linux supports my SMP workstation better, and has better support for more filesystems. I was a hardcore BSDer, but even I am being turned around. Linux is the way of the future. I look at the feature list for the next kernel, and I'm amazed. Sure, BSD has 25-year old code, but Linux's code is being developed NOW. Also, I can attest to the fact that many BSD people are those snooty University types. The Linux scene is more my style anyway. I've been on both sides of the fence. As much as I love the kernel, I can feel in my bones that Linux is growing and changing and becoming better everyday, while BSD is getting stale, and no-one supports it, and being a developer I can't stay there for much longer. I'm coming back, Tux, I'm coming back...
Java cannot replace C or C++. But as it finds its niche as a *web* technology, it will become better optimized, faster, and more stable. Sun has hopefully realized that no-one really does a lot of stand-alone app dev in Java. They need to get Java running on servers, and improve how applets, databases, and servlets talk to each other.
It was indeed a pleasure talking with you, |deity|. I really do hope that you post this way in the future. Please do, because it's a pity to be written off as a troll because of that fanatical AC posting style where you yell like a 12 year-old. It was a pleasure to be proven wrong, and I will give all troll ACs a second thought now.;-)
I want to sincerely thank you for responding in that mature manner. I am very willing to accept Java's weaknesses, but I currently have a real problem with the trolling ACs that bash Java for no reason.
I can see by this post that you do indeed know what you are talking about. I only with that you had said all of this in your original post. I would have even moderated you up, becase even though I disagree, you put some good reasoning behind your arguments.
And about your responses to my insults... I'm not insulting the intelligence of |deity|, the person who wrote that very intelligent post just now. I *will* however insult the intelligence of the AC who screams in CAPS that Java "sucks" and "blows". You say "I'm sorry if I offended you with my opinion". I was not at all offended by your opinion, I was merely offended by your method of delivering it.
Perhaps I was a bit to quick to flame. But please, in the future, avoid that AC style that you can see the moderators were quick to shove down to (Score: -1, Troll). If you had posted in your later manner in the first place, you probably would have gotten a (Score: 3, Insightful), at least.
Since you have, as requested, backed up your arguments, I hereby recant my previous flames and apologize for my quickness to respond that way. But I will stand by my criticism of the manner in which you first posted. That is what I look down upon.
Now that we have that out of the way , I will respons to your arguments.
I agree that Java is slow as hell compared to native languages and even many interpretive languages, I do not think that Java will ever have a place in standalone application programming. And for text processing, Perl is still the way to go. But Java has what I think to be the perfect mix of power, speed, and functionality for its current use in small WWW applets. Servlets still need a while to ripen.
I myself code in C, and I too first thought that Java was *extremely* verbose when I first saw the code. I've gotten used to it, but I get the feeling that its designers weren't planning on it being used as much as it is for applets. Too much code is required to do simple things for most WWW applets, IMHO.
I must disagree that Java is "dead". You say yourself later in the post that it is in widespread use. Java support is getting better all the time. Look at how much better the Java stuff for Linux has gotten. Java is anything but dead.
Servlets may very well change the way that WWW server-side code is thought of, if they haven't already. However this will require broad Java support for the underlying OS. Solaris, to no surprise, handles this best right now. Linux is getting there. *BSD is a long way off. NT... well, NT is crap anyway.
Java is still a very new technology. I'd give it a few more years before you write it off completely. Especially when you see how it can work so nicely with the next Technology of the Week, XML.
You mention that you're reading some books about Java currently. I'd recommend O'Reilly's servlet book, and most of the Wrox stuff.
You say that you saw my info and noticed that I'm a BSD person. That is very true. However I am even more of a Java person, and so I will probably be dumping BSD in the next month if I don't hear any good news about that Java 2 SDK. There was been far too little Java FreeBSD development for me to be optimistic. I'm going to go back to Linux (yes, I confess. I used Linux and loved it until FreeBSD rocked my world), at least until I see Solaris 8. The time has come to return to the Penguin. Linux is being supported by IBM now, IBM loves Java on Linux; and there's even an official Sun JDK for it. Linux supports my SMP workstation better, and has better support for more filesystems. I was a hardcore BSDer, but even I am being turned around. Linux is the way of the future. I look at the feature list for the next kernel, and I'm amazed. Sure, BSD has 25-year old code, but Linux's code is being developed NOW. Also, I can attest to the fact that many BSD people are those snooty University types. The Linux scene is more my style anyway. I've been on both sides of the fence. As much as I love the kernel, I can feel in my bones that Linux is growing and changing and becoming better everyday, while BSD is getting stale, and no-one supports it, and being a developer I can't stay there for much longer. I'm coming back, Tux, I'm coming back...
Java cannot replace C or C++. But as it finds its niche as a *web* technology, it will become better optimized, faster, and more stable. Sun has hopefully realized that no-one really does a lot of stand-alone app dev in Java. They need to get Java running on servers, and improve how applets, databases, and servlets talk to each other.
It was indeed a pleasure talking with you, |deity|. I really do hope that you post this way in the future. Please do, because it's a pity to be written off as a troll because of that fanatical AC posting style where you yell like a 12 year-old. It was a pleasure to be proven wrong, and I will give all troll ACs a second thought now.;-)
The last paragraph asks people to mail me, if interested in working on an unofficial port. Yet another AC troll has reading problems? Tragic. Remember, 1-800-ABCDEFG... get help, please.
But it works. And don't whine about it crashing Netscape on your Linux box. It works for everyone else.
Please, tell me: exactly how is it bloated/overly verbose/dead? I'm not saying it's perfect, but can you be more specific? I should've guessed by your LOVE OF CAPS that you didn't know what you were talking about. Just because you couldn't learn it is no reason to whine. Or rather, YELL.
Go read a few books on modern WWW architecture, maybe a few copies of Dr. Dobbs, take some classes, then come back here and argue. And don't post AC -- in your own words, it "blows, sucks ass, and is gay".
Interestingly enough, that could actually work. Slashdot is owned by Andover.net, and financed by advertisers. If Andover sees the traffic drop, they'll want to know why. Maybe it'd put some heat on Rob.
That being said, I am personally not interested in Rob's Perl scripts. I think that the whole idea of releasing Slash's code sorta bad. You just know that within a week there'll be a few thousand Slashdot code-alikes on the Net.
Oh well, maybe it'll thin out the crowd of trollers here a bit. I can see it now -- "SlashPortman". News for Trolls, Stuff about Natalie.;-)
I have my copy of free Solaris 7. I had it installed and running on x86 in under a half-hour, and with the included JDKs (including Java 2 SDKs), I could write and run Java apps perfectly, and also, immediately. Heck, I even loved the cool little icons that CDE put on my Java source files. I was so amused to run applets with HotJava, which is of course a Java app itself.
But... free Solaris 7 didn't even come with a C compiler. It came with *nothing*. I even had to install Netscape separately. It was disgraceful. FreeBSD comes with all of the cool GNU apps I need, plus I have the source.
Only my love for a real UNIX is keeping me from switching to Linux. Ever since I found the Linux port of Java 2 SDK, a day has not passed that I do not think of converting to Penguinism. I hate it. But it's true...
Alas, if free Solaris 8 is everything it's cracked up to be, FreeBSD may have to go. If Solaris 8 is loaded with apps like Linux and FreeBSD, and if it's "free", then I have no logical reason not to switch. It is a real UNIX, after all. (Of course, I still prefer the "feel" of FreeBSD, but what good is feel without functionality?) It will sadden me greatly, but you may be right, Mr. AC.:(
[wakes up] What? No! Never! FreeBSD will never die! We must have Java 2 SDK on FreeBSD! I will not succomb to the temptations of Slowaris!
Java should be a standard, not just something anybody can change to suit them . . . Hopefully this ruling will teach Microsoft about Standards.
This is exactly why we're all so pissed that Sun yanked Java from the standards process. If Sun wants to help show the judges that the Java "standard" should be enforced, they should resubmit Java and actually create a standard.
This is a repost from today's other Java discussion. Please read and go vote!
While there has been an official Linux port, there is no native Java 2 SDK for FreeBSD. Please, all members of JDC, go here and cast your votes to have Sun release this software. We are up to 2703 votes so far. It took 4551 votes before Sun released the Linux version, so we're almost there, right?;-)
(However, I am well aware that the release of the Linux port was due in large part to the excellent folks from Blackdown.)
Here are a few of the tons of comments on the "bug report" page where you can vote for this RFE (request for enhancement).
"FreeBSD is one of the favorite OS to run servers, and Java is becoming the favorite language to write server applications."
"Daemon News supports this project. DN will also issue a certification if it runs well on BSD."
"Due to the stability we use either Solaris or FreeBSD. It is very tiresome not being able to develop on FreeBSD for deployment on Solaris. Using solely Linux is not an option for me."
"It's a pity that we can't develop on a OS that is very popular among small ISPs."
"As has been said, not having Java ports for these platforms helps only Microsoft, and hurts the people Sun really seems interested in helping: the Open Source community."
"With official support of Java2 on FreeBSD from SUN, I would be able to finally abandon NT platform and use my prefferd FreeBSD OS for most of my projects."
You must be registered in the JDC (Java Developer Connection) to vote. Registration is free and quick, so if you're a Java developer or just have a general interest on FreeBSD or Java, please go sign up and vote!
Anyone interested in doing an unofficial port please mail me at javadrew@spammerslovehotmail.com (obviously remove the "spammerslove":-).
Yes, I agree that it's rather funny. But I still like the Sun JDKs. And they did a Linux port, after all...
Perhaps if *BSD had the publicity that Linux did?
A few of my arguments to Sun for why they should do this:
FreeBSD is a widely-used as a server OS, and an official port would encourage the use of servlets
A FreeBSD port could be used on NetBSD and OpenBSD with only mininal, if any, modidications. Killing three Daemons (four if you count that BSDi thinger, but I don't).
FreeBSD is popular in Japan. I don't know if Java is as well, but this couldn't hurt!
Here are a few of the tons of comments on the "bug report" page where you can vote for this RFE (request for enhancement).
"FreeBSD is one of the favorite OS to run servers, and Java is becoming the favorite language to write server applications."
"Daemon News supports this project. DN will also issue a certification if it runs well on BSD."
"Due to the stability we use either Solaris or FreeBSD. It is very tiresome not being able to develop on FreeBSD for deployment on Solaris. Using solely Linux is not an option for me."
"It's a pity that we can't develop on a OS that is very popular among small ISPs."
"As has been said, not having Java ports for these platforms helps only Microsoft, and hurts the people Sun really seems interested in helping: the Open Source community."
"With official support of Java2 on FreeBSD from SUN, I would be able to finally abandon NT platform and use my prefferd FreeBSD OS for most of my projects."
Come on, people. Sun will have to pay attention if we Slashdot their server. Not even SMP Solaris can survive the wrath of Maldastein's Monster.;-)
Does anyone actually know how to report JDK bugs to IBM?
JDKs (Java Development Kits) are from Sun, not IBM. You are probably referring to the "Jikes" compiler. Jikes is included with a few Freenices; it's part of FreeBSD's ports collection, I know.
I agree that the name "Java 2" is misleading; there were hardly enough changes to jump from 1.1 to 2, right? Java 2 (which is really JDK 1.2) does have many advantages over "the 'old' version", like bug fixes, added functionality, more classes, et cetera, but code written with JDK 1.1.x is by no means obsolete.
See, Sun decided to be really clever and drop the standard practices used for software versioning It goes like this:
Solaris 7 is really Solaris 2.7, and came after Solaris 2.6
Java 2 SDK is really JDK 1.2, and came after JDK 1.1.x
Get it? By dropping the number before the decimal point, they can fool you into thinking it's a whole new version! After all, there's no way we can convince our employers to pay for a software upgrade from 1.1 to 1.2, but 1.1 to 2 must be something big. (But JDK is free, so...? Nevermind.)
Eventually Solaris and Java will have to start using Apple's roman numeral software versioning, because you can't have Java 10. Because Java 10 would be JDK 1.10, which is technology from the Dark Ages (1997!!). My hunch is that they'll start using the "Street Fighter" versioning system, so by 2002 we'll have Java 2 Turbo Alpha Hyper. Capcom managed to survive for five years like that.
This is all well and good, but I prefer to use Sun's official tools. And while there has been an official Linux port, there is no native Java 2 SDK for FreeBSD.
Please, all members of JDC, go here and cast your votes to have Sun release this software. We are up to 2703 votes so far. It took 4551 votes before Sun released the Linux version, so we're almost there, right?;-)
(However, I am well aware that the release of the Linux port was due in large part to the excellent folks from Blackdown.)
You must be registered in the JDC (Java Developer Connection) to vote. Registration is free and quick, so if you're a Java developer or just have a general interest on FreeBSD or Java, please go sign up and vote!
Torvalds is the last person I'd think to use strong-arm "corporate" tactics to protect his trademark. I'd like to know exactly what his - or his lawyer's - beef with the auctioning was. Doesn't this kind of thing go on all the time? Was the problem that it was a Linux-specific auction? Torvalds can't tell the company to give the name "back to the community" - they're already paid for. Please, enlighten me.
This stuff fits on a floppy or two. We should hand out free copies on the steps of the courthouse.
Yes!! Dude, that rocks! Finally, a use for my collection of free AOL diskettes!
In my local Tower Records, there's usually a bin of free AOL CDs and diskettes by the door. I suggest that you go to your local Tower Records or similar DVD-reseller, and request permission to leave a box of your "free DVD-player for non-Windows users" by the door. Tell them the truth - that 99% of DVD players are for Windows, and Linux users (maybe they've heard of Linux while restocking the magazine racks?) are out of luck unless they get these disks. It's all true, right?
How pathetic. In America, not even the Feds pretend they really control the Internet... and big business thinks they can scare us into doing their bidding? Fuck 'em. Post anywhere and everywhere. Make your own mirror site. Post the URL all over USENET. Put the URL on fliers and drop off handfuls at your local book and computer stores. Go to your offices and schools and spread the word, the source, and the binaries.;) And tell your geek friends to fo the same thing. It's time for a good old fashioned grassroots nonviolent protest.
(For those of you interested in violence, put the binaries on CD-ROM and throw the CDs at people like sharp frisbees.)
There's a part of everyone that loves protest. The key is finding a just cause. For movie lovers and geeks alike, this is our Quest, at least until Slashdot posts something else to rile the public.
"Hell no! We won't go!
DVDs ain't just for Windows! You can't beat this noble crack With your legal Spam attack!"
Yes!! Dude, that rocks! Finally, a use for my collection of free AOL diskettes!
In my local Tower Records, there's usually a bin of free AOL CDs and diskettes by the door. I suggest that you go to your local Tower Records or similar DVD-reseller, and request permission to leave a box of your "free DVD-player for non-Windows users" by the door. Tell them the truth - that 99% of DVD players are for Windows, and Linux users (maybe they've heard of Linux while restocking the magazine racks?) are out of luck unless they get these disks. It's all true, right?
How pathetic. In America, not even the Feds pretend they control the Internet... and big business thinks they can scare us into doing their bidding? Fuck 'em. Post anywhere and everywhere. Make your own mirror site. Post the URL all over USENET. Put the URL on fliers and drop off handfuls at your local book and computer stores. Go to your offices and schools and spread the word, the source, and the binaries.;) And tell your geek friends to fo the same thing. It's time for a good old fashioned grassroots nonviolent protest.
(For those of you interested in violence, put the binaries on CD-ROM and throw the CDs at people like sharp frisbees.)
There's a part of everyone that loves protest. The key is finding a just cause. For movie lovers and geeks alike, this is our Quest, at least until Slashdot posts something else to rile the public.
"Hell no! We won't go!
DVDs ain't just for Windows! You can't beat this noble crack With your legal Spam attack!"
I've heard quite a few people say that Netscape works fine under Linux if you turn off Java. Whatever happened to the Sun-Netscape Alliance? How can Sun be partnered with a company whose product crashes when in encounters Java? And yes, Netscape fscks itself in Solaris too.
Netscape 5... wow. I still use Netscape instead of IE in Windows, but it's very painful at times... when Netscape crashes under Linux, well, it crashes, and we rm the lock, and it's all good again. But because of Windows' poor memory management, when when Netscape crashes, half the time it takes the OS with it! Please, Netscape: don't release version 5 until it actually works! Windows won't cover your ass if get careless with the memory!
My Netscape 5 Wish List:
**Allow us to run mutiple windows in separate processes! Hopefully, this will keep Netscape from closing all ten of my open broswer windows if one fscks itself. IE5 allows this option. Yes, this can require more memory, but it's worth it.
**Consider a more customizable UI. I don't mean RAM-hog skins, but take a look at Opera. You can move the menus, the status bar, et cetera.
**Get rid of that damn "Shop" button! Come on! What next, the Netscape/Pepsi/Pizza Hut broswer? We knows you're strapped for cash, but really...
Slashdot Mirror
Um, they don't.
A native speaker could probably give a clearer definition.
Cheers,
The_Messenger
I apologize; I thought he was referrring to the JDK. Yes, I have looked at IBM in the last year ;-) and I'm looking forward even more to what they'll be doing *this* year. Eventually they will be the people to go to, not Sun, for the basic Java tools. Especially with their interest in Linux.
Whoever thought that IBM, of all companies, would be not only supporting, but developing for, open source? I'll bet Gates is just *fuming*.
"It's an exciting time to be alive!" - Tank, The Matrix
I can see by this post that you do indeed know what you are talking about. I only with that you had said all of this in your original post. I would have even moderated you up, becase even though I disagree, you put some good reasoning behind your arguments.
And about your responses to my insults... I'm not insulting the intelligence of |deity|, the person who wrote that very intelligent post just now. I *will* however insult the intelligence of the AC who screams in CAPS that Java "sucks" and "blows". You say "I'm sorry if I offended you with my opinion". I was not at all offended by your opinion, I was merely offended by your method of delivering it.
Perhaps I was a bit to quick to flame. But please, in the future, avoid that AC style that you can see the moderators were quick to shove down to (Score: -1, Troll). If you had posted in your later manner in the first place, you probably would have gotten a (Score: 3, Insightful), at least.
Since you have, as requested, backed up your arguments, I hereby recant my previous flames and apologize for my quickness to respond that way. But I will stand by my criticism of the manner in which you first posted. That is what I look down upon.
Now that we have that out of the way , I will respons to your arguments.
I agree that Java is slow as hell compared to native languages and even many interpretive languages, I do not think that Java will ever have a place in standalone application programming. And for text processing, Perl is still the way to go. But Java has what I think to be the perfect mix of power, speed, and functionality for its current use in small WWW applets. Servlets still need a while to ripen.
I myself code in C, and I too first thought that Java was *extremely* verbose when I first saw the code. I've gotten used to it, but I get the feeling that its designers weren't planning on it being used as much as it is for applets. Too much code is required to do simple things for most WWW applets, IMHO.
I must disagree that Java is "dead". You say yourself later in the post that it is in widespread use. Java support is getting better all the time. Look at how much better the Java stuff for Linux has gotten. Java is anything but dead.
Servlets may very well change the way that WWW server-side code is thought of, if they haven't already. However this will require broad Java support for the underlying OS. Solaris, to no surprise, handles this best right now. Linux is getting there. *BSD is a long way off. NT... well, NT is crap anyway.
Java is still a very new technology. I'd give it a few more years before you write it off completely. Especially when you see how it can work so nicely with the next Technology of the Week, XML.
You mention that you're reading some books about Java currently. I'd recommend O'Reilly's servlet book, and most of the Wrox stuff.
You say that you saw my info and noticed that I'm a BSD person. That is very true. However I am even more of a Java person, and so I will probably be dumping BSD in the next month if I don't hear any good news about that Java 2 SDK. There was been far too little Java FreeBSD development for me to be optimistic. I'm going to go back to Linux (yes, I confess. I used Linux and loved it until FreeBSD rocked my world), at least until I see Solaris 8. The time has come to return to the Penguin. Linux is being supported by IBM now, IBM loves Java on Linux; and there's even an official Sun JDK for it. Linux supports my SMP workstation better, and has better support for more filesystems. I was a hardcore BSDer, but even I am being turned around. Linux is the way of the future. I look at the feature list for the next kernel, and I'm amazed. Sure, BSD has 25-year old code, but Linux's code is being developed NOW. Also, I can attest to the fact that many BSD people are those snooty University types. The Linux scene is more my style anyway. I've been on both sides of the fence. As much as I love the kernel, I can feel in my bones that Linux is growing and changing and becoming better everyday, while BSD is getting stale, and no-one supports it, and being a developer I can't stay there for much longer. I'm coming back, Tux, I'm coming back...
Java cannot replace C or C++. But as it finds its niche as a *web* technology, it will become better optimized, faster, and more stable. Sun has hopefully realized that no-one really does a lot of stand-alone app dev in Java. They need to get Java running on servers, and improve how applets, databases, and servlets talk to each other.
It was indeed a pleasure talking with you, |deity|. I really do hope that you post this way in the future. Please do, because it's a pity to be written off as a troll because of that fanatical AC posting style where you yell like a 12 year-old. It was a pleasure to be proven wrong, and I will give all troll ACs a second thought now. ;-)
Cheers,
The_Messenger
I can see by this post that you do indeed know what you are talking about. I only with that you had said all of this in your original post. I would have even moderated you up, becase even though I disagree, you put some good reasoning behind your arguments.
And about your responses to my insults... I'm not insulting the intelligence of |deity|, the person who wrote that very intelligent post just now. I *will* however insult the intelligence of the AC who screams in CAPS that Java "sucks" and "blows". You say "I'm sorry if I offended you with my opinion". I was not at all offended by your opinion, I was merely offended by your method of delivering it.
Perhaps I was a bit to quick to flame. But please, in the future, avoid that AC style that you can see the moderators were quick to shove down to (Score: -1, Troll). If you had posted in your later manner in the first place, you probably would have gotten a (Score: 3, Insightful), at least.
Since you have, as requested, backed up your arguments, I hereby recant my previous flames and apologize for my quickness to respond that way. But I will stand by my criticism of the manner in which you first posted. That is what I look down upon.
Now that we have that out of the way , I will respons to your arguments.
I agree that Java is slow as hell compared to native languages and even many interpretive languages, I do not think that Java will ever have a place in standalone application programming. And for text processing, Perl is still the way to go. But Java has what I think to be the perfect mix of power, speed, and functionality for its current use in small WWW applets. Servlets still need a while to ripen.
I myself code in C, and I too first thought that Java was *extremely* verbose when I first saw the code. I've gotten used to it, but I get the feeling that its designers weren't planning on it being used as much as it is for applets. Too much code is required to do simple things for most WWW applets, IMHO.
I must disagree that Java is "dead". You say yourself later in the post that it is in widespread use. Java support is getting better all the time. Look at how much better the Java stuff for Linux has gotten. Java is anything but dead.
Servlets may very well change the way that WWW server-side code is thought of, if they haven't already. However this will require broad Java support for the underlying OS. Solaris, to no surprise, handles this best right now. Linux is getting there. *BSD is a long way off. NT... well, NT is crap anyway.
Java is still a very new technology. I'd give it a few more years before you write it off completely. Especially when you see how it can work so nicely with the next Technology of the Week, XML.
You mention that you're reading some books about Java currently. I'd recommend O'Reilly's servlet book, and most of the Wrox stuff.
You say that you saw my info and noticed that I'm a BSD person. That is very true. However I am even more of a Java person, and so I will probably be dumping BSD in the next month if I don't hear any good news about that Java 2 SDK. There was been far too little Java FreeBSD development for me to be optimistic. I'm going to go back to Linux (yes, I confess. I used Linux and loved it until FreeBSD rocked my world), at least until I see Solaris 8. The time has come to return to the Penguin. Linux is being supported by IBM now, IBM loves Java on Linux; and there's even an official Sun JDK for it. Linux supports my SMP workstation better, and has better support for more filesystems. I was a hardcore BSDer, but even I am being turned around. Linux is the way of the future. I look at the feature list for the next kernel, and I'm amazed. Sure, BSD has 25-year old code, but Linux's code is being developed NOW. Also, I can attest to the fact that many BSD people are those snooty University types. The Linux scene is more my style anyway. I've been on both sides of the fence. As much as I love the kernel, I can feel in my bones that Linux is growing and changing and becoming better everyday, while BSD is getting stale, and no-one supports it, and being a developer I can't stay there for much longer. I'm coming back, Tux, I'm coming back...
Java cannot replace C or C++. But as it finds its niche as a *web* technology, it will become better optimized, faster, and more stable. Sun has hopefully realized that no-one really does a lot of stand-alone app dev in Java. They need to get Java running on servers, and improve how applets, databases, and servlets talk to each other.
It was indeed a pleasure talking with you, |deity|. I really do hope that you post this way in the future. Please do, because it's a pity to be written off as a troll because of that fanatical AC posting style where you yell like a 12 year-old. It was a pleasure to be proven wrong, and I will give all troll ACs a second thought now. ;-)
Cheers,
The_Messenger
Almost forgot!
The last paragraph asks people to mail me, if interested in working on an unofficial port. Yet another AC troll has reading problems? Tragic. Remember, 1-800-ABCDEFG... get help, please.
But it works. And don't whine about it crashing Netscape on your Linux box. It works for everyone else.
Please, tell me: exactly how is it bloated/overly verbose/dead? I'm not saying it's perfect, but can you be more specific? I should've guessed by your LOVE OF CAPS that you didn't know what you were talking about. Just because you couldn't learn it is no reason to whine. Or rather, YELL.
Go read a few books on modern WWW architecture, maybe a few copies of Dr. Dobbs, take some classes, then come back here and argue. And don't post AC -- in your own words, it "blows, sucks ass, and is gay".
Thanks so much!
You Windows users are all alike!
That being said, I am personally not interested in Rob's Perl scripts. I think that the whole idea of releasing Slash's code sorta bad. You just know that within a week there'll be a few thousand Slashdot code-alikes on the Net.
Oh well, maybe it'll thin out the crowd of trollers here a bit. I can see it now -- "SlashPortman". News for Trolls, Stuff about Natalie. ;-)
But... free Solaris 7 didn't even come with a C compiler. It came with *nothing*. I even had to install Netscape separately. It was disgraceful. FreeBSD comes with all of the cool GNU apps I need, plus I have the source.
Only my love for a real UNIX is keeping me from switching to Linux. Ever since I found the Linux port of Java 2 SDK, a day has not passed that I do not think of converting to Penguinism. I hate it. But it's true...
Alas, if free Solaris 8 is everything it's cracked up to be, FreeBSD may have to go. If Solaris 8 is loaded with apps like Linux and FreeBSD, and if it's "free", then I have no logical reason not to switch. It is a real UNIX, after all. (Of course, I still prefer the "feel" of FreeBSD, but what good is feel without functionality?) It will sadden me greatly, but you may be right, Mr. AC. :(
[wakes up] What? No! Never! FreeBSD will never die! We must have Java 2 SDK on FreeBSD! I will not succomb to the temptations of Slowaris!
(Who said blind loyalty wasn't fun?)
So... the question must be asked: why aren't you moving to servlets, Rob? ;-)
This is exactly why we're all so pissed that Sun yanked Java from the standards process. If Sun wants to help show the judges that the Java "standard" should be enforced, they should resubmit Java and actually create a standard.
This is a repost from today's other Java discussion. Please read and go vote!
While there has been an official Linux port, there is no native Java 2 SDK for FreeBSD. Please, all members of JDC, go here and cast your votes to have Sun release this software. We are up to 2703 votes so far. It took 4551 votes before Sun released the Linux version, so we're almost there, right? ;-)
(However, I am well aware that the release of the Linux port was due in large part to the excellent folks from Blackdown.)
Here are a few of the tons of comments on the "bug report" page where you can vote for this RFE (request for enhancement).
You must be registered in the JDC (Java Developer Connection) to vote. Registration is free and quick, so if you're a Java developer or just have a general interest on FreeBSD or Java, please go sign up and vote!
Anyone interested in doing an unofficial port please mail me at javadrew@spammerslovehotmail.com (obviously remove the "spammerslove" :-).
Perhaps if *BSD had the publicity that Linux did?
A few of my arguments to Sun for why they should do this:
Here are a few of the tons of comments on the "bug report" page where you can vote for this RFE (request for enhancement).
Come on, people. Sun will have to pay attention if we Slashdot their server. Not even SMP Solaris can survive the wrath of Maldastein's Monster. ;-)
Thanks.
"Jave?" Maybe you should have previewed, too. ;-)
JDKs (Java Development Kits) are from Sun, not IBM. You are probably referring to the "Jikes" compiler. Jikes is included with a few Freenices; it's part of FreeBSD's ports collection, I know.
JitterBug is where you want to go to report bugs.
However, if you use Linux, I would instead recommend getting the Sun/Blackdo wn Java 2 SDK.
If you use *BSD, read my other post about Java 2 SDK and go vote!
If you use Solaris... WTF are you doing using Jikes, mate?
If you use Win32, well, bollocks. ;-)
See, Sun decided to be really clever and drop the standard practices used for software versioning It goes like this:
Get it? By dropping the number before the decimal point, they can fool you into thinking it's a whole new version! After all, there's no way we can convince our employers to pay for a software upgrade from 1.1 to 1.2, but 1.1 to 2 must be something big. (But JDK is free, so...? Nevermind.)
Eventually Solaris and Java will have to start using Apple's roman numeral software versioning, because you can't have Java 10. Because Java 10 would be JDK 1.10, which is technology from the Dark Ages (1997!!). My hunch is that they'll start using the "Street Fighter" versioning system, so by 2002 we'll have Java 2 Turbo Alpha Hyper. Capcom managed to survive for five years like that.
Please, all members of JDC, go here and cast your votes to have Sun release this software. We are up to 2703 votes so far. It took 4551 votes before Sun released the Linux version, so we're almost there, right? ;-)
(However, I am well aware that the release of the Linux port was due in large part to the excellent folks from Blackdown.)
You must be registered in the JDC (Java Developer Connection) to vote. Registration is free and quick, so if you're a Java developer or just have a general interest on FreeBSD or Java, please go sign up and vote!
Anyone interested in doing an unofficial port please mail me at javadrew@spammerslovehotmail.com (obviously remove the "spammerslove" :-).
Viva Java 2 en FreeBSD!
Torvalds is the last person I'd think to use strong-arm "corporate" tactics to protect his trademark. I'd like to know exactly what his - or his lawyer's - beef with the auctioning was. Doesn't this kind of thing go on all the time? Was the problem that it was a Linux-specific auction? Torvalds can't tell the company to give the name "back to the community" - they're already paid for. Please, enlighten me.
one word...
AKIHABARA!!!
^_^ for those of you who are confused right now, akihabara is japan's techno-center.
(for the rest of you who are confused, try more ointment.)
Yes!! Dude, that rocks! Finally, a use for my collection of free AOL diskettes!
In my local Tower Records, there's usually a bin of free AOL CDs and diskettes by the door. I suggest that you go to your local Tower Records or similar DVD-reseller, and request permission to leave a box of your "free DVD-player for non-Windows users" by the door. Tell them the truth - that 99% of DVD players are for Windows, and Linux users (maybe they've heard of Linux while restocking the magazine racks?) are out of luck unless they get these disks. It's all true, right?
How pathetic. In America, not even the Feds pretend they really control the Internet... and big business thinks they can scare us into doing their bidding? Fuck 'em. Post anywhere and everywhere. Make your own mirror site. Post the URL all over USENET. Put the URL on fliers and drop off handfuls at your local book and computer stores. Go to your offices and schools and spread the word, the source, and the binaries. ;) And tell your geek friends to fo the same thing. It's time for a good old fashioned grassroots nonviolent protest.
(For those of you interested in violence, put the binaries on CD-ROM and throw the CDs at people like sharp frisbees.)
There's a part of everyone that loves protest. The key is finding a just cause. For movie lovers and geeks alike, this is our Quest, at least until Slashdot posts something else to rile the public.
In my local Tower Records, there's usually a bin of free AOL CDs and diskettes by the door. I suggest that you go to your local Tower Records or similar DVD-reseller, and request permission to leave a box of your "free DVD-player for non-Windows users" by the door. Tell them the truth - that 99% of DVD players are for Windows, and Linux users (maybe they've heard of Linux while restocking the magazine racks?) are out of luck unless they get these disks. It's all true, right?
How pathetic. In America, not even the Feds pretend they control the Internet... and big business thinks they can scare us into doing their bidding? Fuck 'em. Post anywhere and everywhere. Make your own mirror site. Post the URL all over USENET. Put the URL on fliers and drop off handfuls at your local book and computer stores. Go to your offices and schools and spread the word, the source, and the binaries. ;) And tell your geek friends to fo the same thing. It's time for a good old fashioned grassroots nonviolent protest.
(For those of you interested in violence, put the binaries on CD-ROM and throw the CDs at people like sharp frisbees.)
There's a part of everyone that loves protest. The key is finding a just cause. For movie lovers and geeks alike, this is our Quest, at least until Slashdot posts something else to rile the public.
Netscape 5... wow. I still use Netscape instead of IE in Windows, but it's very painful at times... when Netscape crashes under Linux, well, it crashes, and we rm the lock, and it's all good again. But because of Windows' poor memory management, when when Netscape crashes, half the time it takes the OS with it! Please, Netscape: don't release version 5 until it actually works! Windows won't cover your ass if get careless with the memory!
My Netscape 5 Wish List:
**Allow us to run mutiple windows in separate processes! Hopefully, this will keep Netscape from closing all ten of my open broswer windows if one fscks itself. IE5 allows this option. Yes, this can require more memory, but it's worth it.
**Consider a more customizable UI. I don't mean RAM-hog skins, but take a look at Opera. You can move the menus, the status bar, et cetera.
**Get rid of that damn "Shop" button! Come on! What next, the Netscape/Pepsi/Pizza Hut broswer? We knows you're strapped for cash, but really...
Just my two yen.
> generation of weirdos is.
using linux, of course. ;-)
Very clever. Much better than that cop.