> I don't know if I've ever seen such unbelievable indifference to the value of human lives
Am I supposed to shed a tear every time a person dies in this world? Hell, half the population of my town could die right now and it wouldn't affect me too much (except that I work at a hospital), as long as it wasn't something contageous or directly threatening to me in some other way.
It's not just Slashdot, it's all over the world. Slashdot just happens to have a younger-than-average population that isn't going to have a pity party for every family that loses someone. Take notice every time someone dies and take a few seconds of your day to give a moment of silence for them. Might want to do some of them consecutively, though, because 150-200 people die every minute, worldwide.
Or are you saying that these people's deaths are more important because they happened all at once? If everyone affected died (IE, the population of an entire country GONE) you might find us a bit more willing to be awed. This was a natural event, we had no control over it. It's a shame to someone when anyone dies, but please don't expect me to take it personally every time.
If one person dies, it's a tragedy. If a million die, it's a statistic. Still true.
Oh and in case you are worried about a person like me working at a hospital, don't: I don't deal with patients.:)
> If you live for another 40 or 50 years, you'll almost live an extra half second.
And if you say the words "half second" aloud, you've just used it up. Heck, by posting this right now, I have wasted MORE than your precious half-second. Muwahahaha, how's THAT for evil? You gain something and I take it away tenfold.
> They get paid anyway and if the carrier fleet's budget gets cut next year I'll understand.
Well, I doubt that will happen. Government inefficiency dictates that if they used their entire "gas" budget this year (wisely or not) they must need more for next year. So the management-type beurocrats want that thing to move as much as possible, to up their budget projections for next year, to get more money to waste in even more imaginative ways.
Which is not to imply this event is a "waste," but how is an aircraft carrier going to help people who lost their homes? What, are they going to give them shelter there? Those things have plenty of space, but I don't think that will happen. Housing thousands of civilians on a military craft seems... unlikely.
it really annoys me when Yanks get this holier-than-thou attitude
Isn't saying "my country is better because it donated more than your country" a "holier-than-thou" attitude?
Is it so difficult for a single Yank to say "yeah, you're right, our government doesn't do enough to help other countries"
It's not difficult, but we don't say it because that is not what our government was created to do. Is it so difficult for others to say "yeah, but the private donations more than offset the perceived lack of federal donations?"
seeing as I've never met you, I'd rather you didn't address me by first name
So, if you have never been face-to-face with someone, you can't call them by their first name, even if you know it? If you don't want him calling you that, don't reveal it, or at least don't make it your nick! If someone addressed me by "David" I'd wonder where they got the info, but to be insulted or annoyed at it is to claim that someone doesn't have the right to address me by name. It makes you sound pretentious and childish, like a PhD-holder demanding that people call him "Doctor" outside his professional career.
> Whilst appearing to be a good doner, in addition to getting a tax write off.
I get sick of people insulting companies for taking a tax writeoff on donated money. How can someone claim they donated money with personal business motive: THEY LOST MONEY ON THE DEAL! They may have gotten a $5,000 break on their taxes, but they gave away $20 million!!! Let's see...
Net loss of $19,995,000 means they were doing it for business reasons? No. Good Press? Bad press goes so much further than good press, that they'd be better off spending HALF of that money to make shit up about their competitors.
OMG, you are so right. I was starting to get into the financial arguments until I saw this. Comparing the amount of money sent by different countries solves nothing.
> Helen Wachs said her daughter told her they would need "some serious counseling" upon their return to Los Angeles.
What her daughter really needs is a hard slap upside her arrogant, pretentious little head. Counselling... SHE WAS ON FUCKING VACATION, SCUBA DIVING. She's got a home and a bank account in the U.S. The people she just left have NOTHING. THOUSANDS ARE DEAD. MILLIONS ARE WITHOUT SHELTER OR FOOD, and she's worried about her goddamned THERAPIST??? And she wants us to feel sorry for her? Fuck that.
But the blame doesn't stop there. Look at this sensationalist tripe here:
> Because they had lost all their possessions
They didn't lose anything compared to anyone who lived there. Basically, THEY LOST THEIR LUGGAGE! Did they seriously take everything in the world that they owned on vacation in Asia? No, they lost a few changes of clothes, luggage, ID, possibly a good bit of cash, -- $1000 max, assuming they left their wallet/purse elsewhere: but she had her ATM card, access to ALL her money -- maybe some crap they picked up from the local market... Scuba gear, assuming they owned & not rented it. Even then, their true losses were minimal. Stop whining: you have the ability to go home and eat a meal. Before complaining about what you lost, look at what you still have. Would I be upset if I lost all that stuff? Heck yeah. Would it be worthy of a CNN article? No.
The stupid bitch aside, assuming she was totally correct about the airport thing and not exaggerating or selectively stating the events, I'm markedly unsurprised. To think the U.S. government cares about anything other than companies inside its borders is laughable.
In their defense though, it's been what, 3 days? There isn't even an accurate death toll or assessment of damage. Giving money away without yet knowing who needs it is a bit silly. They also did not state that they would not give more than 35 million, just that that is what has been allotted so far.
Sorry for ranting, but that article totally rubbed me the wrong way.
No offense to you in your choice of news outlets, but that piece is so full of shit it turned my screen brown. It's claiming that Muslims will start to like the US if only we'd donate more money to disaster relief.
The author of that (yes, opinion) piece really needs to stick to the point he claims he's trying to make instead of using every possible excuse to point out how fucking horrible the U.S. is.
> I'd like to meet the DA that would prosecute you
Okay, you seem to imply that a DA would probably not prosecute, and I agree. However, isn't the fact that you "broke a law" because you tried to save a girl's life an indication that there is something wrong with that law? I'm in favor of making laws as simple as possible, but just saying "If your vehicle's front end hit someone else('s car) then you are at fault" is inadequate, and pretty much the case right now. At least, in my state it is, and AFAIK most other states' laws are similar (although my personal experience in that regard is, thankfully, lacking).
I don't know, maybe I should just stop worrying about it.
> The last time a checked, the average funeral was reaching $7000
This doesn't change your argument, but the only reason that average is so high is because people get ripped off by funeral homes. They are taken advantage of because they are grief-stricken & vulnerable. If these people had the forsight to look ahead & plan their funerals BEFORE it becomes such an emotional time (still emotional to think about it, but you have a better chance of being reasonable), they wouldn't be paying 7 grand. You can get the whole thing done for less than $1000.
Less than that if you get cremated -- IMO, burying people is egotistical. It's taking up land that could be used for housing the homeless, or at least something else. Cemetaries only have so much space & when full, they have to take up even more land to "house the dead." Taken to its logical conclusion, unless some of these are dug up or built over, we will eventually run out of usable land (granted, that'll take a long time).
When I die, burn me up & throw me in the forest, so that I might one day become part of a tree or something, instead of putting me in an airtight container so that my body takes forever to rot.
> people would normally expect to be compensated only in return for providing a good or service
So a service can only be provided once? If the music "service" is only creating the song once (barring going on tour) and submitting it to public domain, all software should fall under the same category. After all, it's only created once. It has all the attributes of music except entertainment, usually. And heck, most music these days doesn't seem entertaining to me either.
Yes, Open Source & FSF people comes out with some AMAZING stuff. However, I don't think the computer industry would be anywhere near its current state without software companies pushing the bar. It's unfortunate, but some people "require" money before they will attempt writing software. Some of those people are brilliant programmers that have come up with software features that would not exist today, had they not had their greedy little hands working overtime to think it up. Now, OSS can copy it for the average Joe to use:)
Anyway...
So that inherently means that you don't believe in any copyright, patents, trademarks, etc., correct?
Let's say that while sweeping, you came up with a great new type of broom that would reduce sweeping time in half!
Assuming: 1) it's not something as simple as doubling the width and 2) it took some time & real creativity on your part;
So you decide to sell your new super broom & start making $100 a pop. Stihl sees it and thinks it would be a great addition to their new line of power cleaning equipment. They "copy" your design to a 'T.' Since they have mass-production capabilities, they can offer it for $50 (remember, it's a 2-way street: we can take from them, but "they" can take from us as well). After all, after you created the first one already, why should you be paid for an idea over and over?
Therefore, you wouldn't mind? Please note that I'm not insinuating anything here, I know plenty of people that would be thrilled that their idea made its way to production in a huge company, even if they don't make a single cent from it. I would be too, although I'd prefer making money.:) I'm just trying to clarify things.
If this is the case, no company would be able to make something unique. As soon as they do, some schmuck will copy it, nail something else onto it and sell it as the "60K model" or some other such marketing nonsense. Good god! Imagine what would come of this! Companies would have to sell their product based on quality instead of monopoly! Imagine: buying a product that will work for more than a year. AMAZING!
No, that would ruin the entire Capitalist system! Pshaw, quality. If things last 5 years, who's going to buy our product in the 4 years in-between??? No, we must mandate low quality, "for our own good."
Until you remember starting out in that stupid pit with no information, no instructions, no frigging idea what comes next. I remember hating that game with a passion, but until this article was posted, I figured I just didn't "get" it. I had met people who liked the game before (they aren't big gamers tho).
Ah yes, he "stole" some stuff spread out across a number of billion-dollar companies. Of course the proper response is to ruin him for life and make sure he never has any chance of being happy.
You know, since he no longer has anything (it was all confiscated), he no longer has any incentive not to do the crimes he was punished for.
Everything's gone, gotta make money somehow. If I get a job, they'll "steal" it all back, so I might as well start selling the copies they didn't find. Or maybe I'll sell crack, or become a pimp or something.
> you *are* in control of your vehicle and responsible for it at all times, right?
A plane crashes in front of me and I have to swerve to miss it. I hit a kid who is in a "mail drop disguise." Now, how responsible do you expect people to be? For me to be charged with manslaughter in that case would be ridiculous. It's all a matter of scale.
My point is that even though you are in control of the vehicle, you are NOT in control of external events. If an event is not within your control and would have happened regardless of your alertness & control of the vehicle, I see no good reason to be held responsible for it.
> every time someone _else_ does the work to copy something
Yeah, clicking that link and dragging&dropping a file into BitComet is hard work.
> Expecting the government to force people to give you money for doing no extra work is just greed.
And forcing these companies to supply you with software without you doing anything to deserve it is, what again?
I'm a pirate (Arrr matey... no, the software kind). I download movies, music, copyrighted porn, etc. I don't feel guilty about it. I would not have purchased any of that stuff. Do I need it? Nope, but it's there, so I'll copy it. Do I have a "right" to it? Nope. Do I have the "right" to breathe? Not technically. I'm on your side here, but that's not the greatest argument point.
Slashdot Mirror
> a tsunami is a sound wave, but it doesn't repeat.
Does a sound wave repeat?
> Alright, so how many Libraries of Congress would it move?
Just the one.
And it might not move it, so much as annihilate it.
> Realize that the Appalachian mountain chain puts the new beachfront in Pennsylvania and central Virginia.
Perhaps the mountains will become islands and the beachfront property is still in Ohio.
> I don't know if I've ever seen such unbelievable indifference to the value of human lives
:)
Am I supposed to shed a tear every time a person dies in this world? Hell, half the population of my town could die right now and it wouldn't affect me too much (except that I work at a hospital), as long as it wasn't something contageous or directly threatening to me in some other way.
It's not just Slashdot, it's all over the world. Slashdot just happens to have a younger-than-average population that isn't going to have a pity party for every family that loses someone. Take notice every time someone dies and take a few seconds of your day to give a moment of silence for them. Might want to do some of them consecutively, though, because 150-200 people die every minute, worldwide.
Or are you saying that these people's deaths are more important because they happened all at once? If everyone affected died (IE, the population of an entire country GONE) you might find us a bit more willing to be awed. This was a natural event, we had no control over it. It's a shame to someone when anyone dies, but please don't expect me to take it personally every time.
If one person dies, it's a tragedy. If a million die, it's a statistic. Still true.
Oh and in case you are worried about a person like me working at a hospital, don't: I don't deal with patients.
> If you live for another 40 or 50 years, you'll almost live an extra half second.
And if you say the words "half second" aloud, you've just used it up. Heck, by posting this right now, I have wasted MORE than your precious half-second. Muwahahaha, how's THAT for evil? You gain something and I take it away tenfold.
> No, your wristwatch doesn't need to be readjusted immediately.
What if my watch has a "microsecond" hand?
> this is a professional meteorologist. Can't he even get basic astrology right?
Psh, shows what YOU know. He's a meteorologist. What does he know about weather, he studies meteors! If you want weather, talk to a weather man, duh!
(umm, yeah I know)
> They get paid anyway and if the carrier fleet's budget gets cut next year I'll understand.
Well, I doubt that will happen. Government inefficiency dictates that if they used their entire "gas" budget this year (wisely or not) they must need more for next year. So the management-type beurocrats want that thing to move as much as possible, to up their budget projections for next year, to get more money to waste in even more imaginative ways.
Which is not to imply this event is a "waste," but how is an aircraft carrier going to help people who lost their homes? What, are they going to give them shelter there? Those things have plenty of space, but I don't think that will happen. Housing thousands of civilians on a military craft seems... unlikely.
> I just got back from a trip to Africa and its depressing to see + hear what our 'aid' achieves
I'm curious: could you be a bit more specific?
> Whilst appearing to be a good doner, in addition to getting a tax write off.
I get sick of people insulting companies for taking a tax writeoff on donated money. How can someone claim they donated money with personal business motive: THEY LOST MONEY ON THE DEAL! They may have gotten a $5,000 break on their taxes, but they gave away $20 million!!! Let's see...
Net loss of $19,995,000 means they were doing it for business reasons? No. Good Press? Bad press goes so much further than good press, that they'd be better off spending HALF of that money to make shit up about their competitors.
OMG, you are so right. I was starting to get into the financial arguments until I saw this. Comparing the amount of money sent by different countries solves nothing.
Can't see the forest for the trees.
> Helen Wachs said her daughter told her they would need "some serious counseling" upon their return to Los Angeles.
What her daughter really needs is a hard slap upside her arrogant, pretentious little head. Counselling... SHE WAS ON FUCKING VACATION, SCUBA DIVING. She's got a home and a bank account in the U.S. The people she just left have NOTHING. THOUSANDS ARE DEAD. MILLIONS ARE WITHOUT SHELTER OR FOOD, and she's worried about her goddamned THERAPIST??? And she wants us to feel sorry for her? Fuck that.
But the blame doesn't stop there. Look at this sensationalist tripe here:
> Because they had lost all their possessions
They didn't lose anything compared to anyone who lived there. Basically, THEY LOST THEIR LUGGAGE! Did they seriously take everything in the world that they owned on vacation in Asia? No, they lost a few changes of clothes, luggage, ID, possibly a good bit of cash, -- $1000 max, assuming they left their wallet/purse elsewhere: but she had her ATM card, access to ALL her money -- maybe some crap they picked up from the local market... Scuba gear, assuming they owned & not rented it. Even then, their true losses were minimal. Stop whining: you have the ability to go home and eat a meal. Before complaining about what you lost, look at what you still have. Would I be upset if I lost all that stuff? Heck yeah. Would it be worthy of a CNN article? No.
The stupid bitch aside, assuming she was totally correct about the airport thing and not exaggerating or selectively stating the events, I'm markedly unsurprised. To think the U.S. government cares about anything other than companies inside its borders is laughable.
In their defense though, it's been what, 3 days? There isn't even an accurate death toll or assessment of damage. Giving money away without yet knowing who needs it is a bit silly. They also did not state that they would not give more than 35 million, just that that is what has been allotted so far.
Sorry for ranting, but that article totally rubbed me the wrong way.
No offense to you in your choice of news outlets, but that piece is so full of shit it turned my screen brown. It's claiming that Muslims will start to like the US if only we'd donate more money to disaster relief.
The author of that (yes, opinion) piece really needs to stick to the point he claims he's trying to make instead of using every possible excuse to point out how fucking horrible the U.S. is.
Oh well, nothing I can do about an editorial...
You're right, it shouldn't be "flamebait"... it should be "troll."
> I'd like to meet the DA that would prosecute you
Okay, you seem to imply that a DA would probably not prosecute, and I agree. However, isn't the fact that you "broke a law" because you tried to save a girl's life an indication that there is something wrong with that law? I'm in favor of making laws as simple as possible, but just saying "If your vehicle's front end hit someone else('s car) then you are at fault" is inadequate, and pretty much the case right now. At least, in my state it is, and AFAIK most other states' laws are similar (although my personal experience in that regard is, thankfully, lacking).
I don't know, maybe I should just stop worrying about it.
> The last time a checked, the average funeral was reaching $7000
This doesn't change your argument, but the only reason that average is so high is because people get ripped off by funeral homes. They are taken advantage of because they are grief-stricken & vulnerable. If these people had the forsight to look ahead & plan their funerals BEFORE it becomes such an emotional time (still emotional to think about it, but you have a better chance of being reasonable), they wouldn't be paying 7 grand. You can get the whole thing done for less than $1000.
Less than that if you get cremated -- IMO, burying people is egotistical. It's taking up land that could be used for housing the homeless, or at least something else. Cemetaries only have so much space & when full, they have to take up even more land to "house the dead." Taken to its logical conclusion, unless some of these are dug up or built over, we will eventually run out of usable land (granted, that'll take a long time).
When I die, burn me up & throw me in the forest, so that I might one day become part of a tree or something, instead of putting me in an airtight container so that my body takes forever to rot.
> people would normally expect to be compensated only in return for providing a good or service
:)
:) I'm just trying to clarify things.
So a service can only be provided once? If the music "service" is only creating the song once (barring going on tour) and submitting it to public domain, all software should fall under the same category. After all, it's only created once. It has all the attributes of music except entertainment, usually. And heck, most music these days doesn't seem entertaining to me either.
Yes, Open Source & FSF people comes out with some AMAZING stuff. However, I don't think the computer industry would be anywhere near its current state without software companies pushing the bar. It's unfortunate, but some people "require" money before they will attempt writing software. Some of those people are brilliant programmers that have come up with software features that would not exist today, had they not had their greedy little hands working overtime to think it up. Now, OSS can copy it for the average Joe to use
Anyway...
So that inherently means that you don't believe in any copyright, patents, trademarks, etc., correct?
Let's say that while sweeping, you came up with a great new type of broom that would reduce sweeping time in half!
Assuming: 1) it's not something as simple as doubling the width and 2) it took some time & real creativity on your part;
So you decide to sell your new super broom & start making $100 a pop. Stihl sees it and thinks it would be a great addition to their new line of power cleaning equipment. They "copy" your design to a 'T.' Since they have mass-production capabilities, they can offer it for $50 (remember, it's a 2-way street: we can take from them, but "they" can take from us as well). After all, after you created the first one already, why should you be paid for an idea over and over?
Therefore, you wouldn't mind? Please note that I'm not insinuating anything here, I know plenty of people that would be thrilled that their idea made its way to production in a huge company, even if they don't make a single cent from it. I would be too, although I'd prefer making money.
If this is the case, no company would be able to make something unique. As soon as they do, some schmuck will copy it, nail something else onto it and sell it as the "60K model" or some other such marketing nonsense. Good god! Imagine what would come of this! Companies would have to sell their product based on quality instead of monopoly! Imagine: buying a product that will work for more than a year. AMAZING!
No, that would ruin the entire Capitalist system! Pshaw, quality. If things last 5 years, who's going to buy our product in the 4 years in-between??? No, we must mandate low quality, "for our own good."
Sorry for the raving.
> I'd honestly still like to play ET once more
Until you remember starting out in that stupid pit with no information, no instructions, no frigging idea what comes next. I remember hating that game with a passion, but until this article was posted, I figured I just didn't "get" it. I had met people who liked the game before (they aren't big gamers tho).
Great link, BTW. Thanks!
Ah yes, he "stole" some stuff spread out across a number of billion-dollar companies. Of course the proper response is to ruin him for life and make sure he never has any chance of being happy.
You know, since he no longer has anything (it was all confiscated), he no longer has any incentive not to do the crimes he was punished for.
Everything's gone, gotta make money somehow. If I get a job, they'll "steal" it all back, so I might as well start selling the copies they didn't find. Or maybe I'll sell crack, or become a pimp or something.
> you *are* in control of your vehicle and responsible for it at all times, right?
A plane crashes in front of me and I have to swerve to miss it. I hit a kid who is in a "mail drop disguise." Now, how responsible do you expect people to be? For me to be charged with manslaughter in that case would be ridiculous. It's all a matter of scale.
My point is that even though you are in control of the vehicle, you are NOT in control of external events. If an event is not within your control and would have happened regardless of your alertness & control of the vehicle, I see no good reason to be held responsible for it.
> Everyone is hurt by a flasher? I repeat, what are you talking about?
Cowboy Neal flashed me and I went blind. Now I'm on welfare because I can't work. Ergo, everyone is hurt!
(Yay, my first CN joke ever! Last, hopefully)
> This 'Poor Kid' by his warez activities may have cost the jobs of hundreds of people
So, you must also believe that "Trickle-Down Economics" is the best fucking thing in the world?
> my soc teacher claims pirating is worse then rape
Either your soc teacher was a man or an extremely unattractive woman no one would want to have sex with at all, let alone rape.
Oh, or extremely stupid.
Cold? Yup. Asshole-ish? Yup. Troll? "Eye of the beholder."
> every time someone _else_ does the work to copy something
Yeah, clicking that link and dragging&dropping a file into BitComet is hard work.
> Expecting the government to force people to give you money for doing no extra work is just greed.
And forcing these companies to supply you with software without you doing anything to deserve it is, what again?
I'm a pirate (Arrr matey... no, the software kind). I download movies, music, copyrighted porn, etc. I don't feel guilty about it. I would not have purchased any of that stuff. Do I need it? Nope, but it's there, so I'll copy it. Do I have a "right" to it? Nope. Do I have the "right" to breathe? Not technically. I'm on your side here, but that's not the greatest argument point.