By hiding the addresses of the clients, you create more reasons for the kiddos to start flooding the servers immediately if they want to keep someone out. Doesn't sound like a smart move.
The attacks happen, period. Also, I think the logic fails entirely within those kiddos if they would flood the servers into being unreachable when they are pissed off about the fact that the servers were unreachable.
Then you don't understand the average IRC warrior kiddo. They're soooo into IRC, it's their world. They want to be in Control of their Universe. Although I don't think this is really going to help ircnet, it does remind people of what may happen if things get further out of hand.
You also forget that, traditionally, irc has always been the primary interest of young script-kiddies. The most frequent clue system administrators get when machines are cracked is the mystery appearance of an eggdrop bot running on the system. This is all because of the instant gratification factor. IRC is realtime, so any mighty abuse you may be able to display is instantly visible and perpetually annoying. How convenient a method to cry away your want for adolescent attention, so much better than trying to do things that are actually _useful_.
There is a huge difference between floodbots, which only cause problems *within* IRC and can be countered *within* IRC and actual denial-of-service attacks against the servers. These are totally different animals, eating huge amounts of bandwidth and causing disturbance usually to entire providers, not just the IRC server. It sometimes gets to the point where ISPs have to announce a null route for the irc server way upstream to prevent them from being unreachable for large parts of the day. That is not good old-fashioned fun, that's ip.terrorism.
Benign? Are you nuts? The average net.tsunami that you get tossed at your network by p4kk3t k0uri3rs if you run an IRC server on one of the four big'uns will easily exceed the 10 Mbps mark. We can handle such abuse, but it's at the very least a gigantic waste of bandwidth that can easily cost real bucks if it happens constantly.
Running an irc server is a thankless job. You end up having to justify big spendings on network traffic that keeps being severely disrupted whenever a teenage script kiddo eats too much chocolate. If you start fighting them, you will be called a selfish megalomanic uebernazi. I'm not at all disgruntled, and still enjoy hosting an Undernet server, but I see a lot of other admins going through this horror.
One after the other, they may very well get to the point where they realize that IRC is just not worth the effort anymore. Welcome to AOL chatrooms then, fellows, hope you had your day.
Actually these two pieces of technology can be much more interwoven than the casual observer would guess. With pride Mad Science Labs present you a future OpenHardware project:
LP ROM A good quality turntable can generate an analogue signal with enough bandwidth to store at least a 128 kilobit modulated datastream. This means that it is perfectly feasible to use vinyl as storage for MP3 files. A very smart encoder should even be able to deal with matters like pitch control and scratching (up to a certain point).
From: Bug Team To: W2K Developers Subject: [BUG #63001] Race condition CAPSLOCK.DLL and LOSER.DLL
It has been shown that long exposure to the W2K desktop sollicits total and absolute losers to start writing comments in web surveys. At that time, the capslock subsystem seems to be irreversably stuck. Suggested fix: Subscribe loser to AOL or MSN.
Re:What about the Internet Icon?
on
Is Usenet Dying?
·
· Score: 1
The spam can is unfortunatly appropriate for Usenet these days. The signal to noise ratio has just gotten horrid. There is some hope of beating back the spam though, like S.P.U.T.U.M. and other groups hitting the spammers where it hurts and Usenet Death Penalties being called against ISPs who give bandwidth to spammers.
I think it all pretty much depends on which newsgroups (and also which hierarchy) you are looking at. Technical newsgroups (comp.*) and national hierarchies (nl.*) handle spam a lot better than, say, alt.*. But even there you will find plenty of places where spam does not occur that oftenly (obviously not in *.binaries.*;).
Usenet is for me a vast technical resource, much better organized than most webforums. Especially newsgroups that target a specific OS or hardware platform can be very helpful. For example, the amount of support SGI users can get (even from SGI employees) on comp.sys.sgi.* is breathtaking.
When I'm looking for an answer, I first go to Deja. Then I search the web. If there's still no answer, Usenet is my first try and usually helps me out.
I can second that. I do parts of the development on Post Office and other GPL projects during work hours with the knowledge of my employer.
The secret is to look at projects that need to be done inside the company and then define a more generic solution to the problem, that will also fare well outside of the company playground. This is win/win/win for you, your employer and the outside world:
You win, because you're now no longer coding on a specific project to satisfy only a stupid customer who, at the end, doesn't even grasp the amount of work you did for him/her.
Your employer wins, because they can offer the same solution to multiple customers without extra overhead. They also get more stable code out of you because of the benefits that come from it being an open source solution.
The world wins, since it gains another useful program.
Of course, if you're bringing an existing project to a new job, careful selection of an employer that will not be micromanaging every piece of code your produce becomes essential.
Good luck, Pi
Re:slashdotted already, and no one has posted yet
on
V2 OS
·
· Score: 1
anyone know of a mirror?
They're on a 128Kb leased line. Welcome to the wonderful world of former monopoly driven telco bastards (they're paying for the connectivity through their noses). I'll offer them a mirror if they want me to. Up till now it hasn't been necessary;)
Personally, I can't understand why this project exists. Speed? Hardware is fast, it's always getting faster, and existing operating systems are as fast as you make them. Being the speed king matters for all of 7 months, when Intel releases a new revision of their processor that negates all your hard hacking. Well, if they're having fun writing it, I guess it has a place.
The primary intended purpose for the OS was to act as a framework for realtime computer-controlled video playback in a "black box" fashion. The lack of a lot of accepted OS features like memory protection is part of its featurelist. For an embedded realtime system with only one real purpose, a framework like this can make a lot of sense.
You also have to bow for the job Joost has done in relatively little time with a notable lack of available hardware documentation. The hack value of it all is, IMHO, pretty high.
Slashdot Mirror
By hiding the addresses of the clients, you create more reasons for the kiddos to start flooding the servers immediately if they want to keep someone out. Doesn't sound like a smart move.
Pi
The attacks happen, period. Also, I think the logic fails entirely within those kiddos if they would flood the servers into being unreachable when they are pissed off about the fact that the servers were unreachable.
Pi
Then you don't understand the average IRC warrior kiddo. They're soooo into IRC, it's their world. They want to be in Control of their Universe. Although I don't think this is really going to help ircnet, it does remind people of what may happen if things get further out of hand.
You also forget that, traditionally, irc has always been the primary interest of young script-kiddies. The most frequent clue system administrators get when machines are cracked is the mystery appearance of an eggdrop bot running on the system. This is all because of the instant gratification factor. IRC is realtime, so any mighty abuse you may be able to display is instantly visible and perpetually annoying. How convenient a method to cry away your want for adolescent attention, so much better than trying to do things that are actually _useful_.
Pi
There is a huge difference between floodbots, which only cause problems *within* IRC and can be countered *within* IRC and actual denial-of-service attacks against the servers. These are totally different animals, eating huge amounts of bandwidth and causing disturbance usually to entire providers, not just the IRC server. It sometimes gets to the point where ISPs have to announce a null route for the irc server way upstream to prevent them from being unreachable for large parts of the day. That is not good old-fashioned fun, that's ip.terrorism.
Pi
Benign? Are you nuts? The average net.tsunami that you get tossed at your network by p4kk3t k0uri3rs if you run an IRC server on one of the four big'uns will easily exceed the 10 Mbps mark. We can handle such abuse, but it's at the very least a gigantic waste of bandwidth that can easily cost real bucks if it happens constantly.
Running an irc server is a thankless job. You end up having to justify big spendings on network traffic that keeps being severely disrupted whenever a teenage script kiddo eats too much chocolate. If you start fighting them, you will be called a selfish megalomanic uebernazi. I'm not at all disgruntled, and still enjoy hosting an Undernet server, but I see a lot of other admins going through this horror.
One after the other, they may very well get to the point where they realize that IRC is just not worth the effort anymore. Welcome to AOL chatrooms then, fellows, hope you had your day.
Pi
Actually these two pieces of technology can be much more interwoven than the casual observer would guess. With pride Mad Science Labs present you a future OpenHardware project:
LP ROM
A good quality turntable can generate an analogue signal with enough bandwidth to store at least a 128 kilobit modulated datastream. This means that it is perfectly feasible to use vinyl as storage for MP3 files. A very smart encoder should even be able to deal with matters like pitch control and scratching (up to a certain point).
I thank you.
Pi
From: Bug Team
To: W2K Developers
Subject: [BUG #63001] Race condition CAPSLOCK.DLL and LOSER.DLL
It has been shown that long exposure to the W2K desktop sollicits total and absolute losers to start writing comments in web surveys. At that time, the capslock subsystem seems to be irreversably stuck. Suggested fix: Subscribe loser to AOL or MSN.
The spam can is unfortunatly appropriate for Usenet these days. The signal to noise ratio has just gotten horrid. There is some hope of beating back the spam though, like S.P.U.T.U.M. and other groups hitting the spammers where it hurts and Usenet Death Penalties being called against ISPs who give bandwidth to spammers.
;).
I think it all pretty much depends on which newsgroups (and also which hierarchy) you are looking at. Technical newsgroups (comp.*) and national hierarchies (nl.*) handle spam a lot better than, say, alt.*. But even there you will find plenty of places where spam does not occur that oftenly (obviously not in *.binaries.*
Usenet is for me a vast technical resource, much better organized than most webforums. Especially newsgroups that target a specific OS or hardware platform can be very helpful. For example, the amount of support SGI users can get (even from SGI employees) on comp.sys.sgi.* is breathtaking.
When I'm looking for an answer, I first go to Deja. Then I search the web. If there's still no answer, Usenet is my first try and usually helps me out.
Pi
As for head-bashing, I agree that Motif & gtk are both wacky to program for, but what graphical API isn't?
FLTK. And it doesn't even have to look bad;).
HTH, HAND.
Pi
--
. -- Perth
The secret is to look at projects that need to be done inside the company and then define a more generic solution to the problem, that will also fare well outside of the company playground. This is win/win/win for you, your employer and the outside world:
Of course, if you're bringing an existing project to a new job, careful selection of an employer that will not be micromanaging every piece of code your produce becomes essential.
Good luck,
Pi
anyone know of a mirror?
;)
They're on a 128Kb leased line. Welcome to the wonderful world of former monopoly driven telco bastards (they're paying for the connectivity through their noses). I'll offer them a mirror if they want me to. Up till now it hasn't been necessary
Pi
Personally, I can't understand why this project exists. Speed? Hardware is fast, it's always getting faster, and existing operating systems are as fast as you make them. Being the speed king matters for all of 7 months, when Intel releases a new revision of their processor that negates all your hard hacking. Well, if they're having fun writing it, I guess it has a place.
The primary intended purpose for the OS was to act as a framework for realtime computer-controlled video playback in a "black box" fashion. The lack of a lot of accepted OS features like memory protection is part of its featurelist. For an embedded realtime system with only one real purpose, a framework like this can make a lot of sense.
You also have to bow for the job Joost has done in relatively little time with a notable lack of available hardware documentation. The hack value of it all is, IMHO, pretty high.
Pi
Madscience Labs - Rotterdam
Get PostOffice