Slashdot Mirror
IRCnet Servers Strike To Protest DDoS Attacks
Many of the IRC servers on IRCnet are going to lock out
all of their users from 12:00 on Friday the 7th of April
to 20:00 on Saturday the 8th of April 2000 (time given in
UTC+0200) to
protest denial
of service attacks. It's a tactic that's been employed before,
but hopefully people will learn. Considering the attacks on so many
services on the Web, I bet we'll see this more. Course that might
just encourage the script kiddies.
It sucks to see something posted that you submitted a couple of days before and was declined within the hour...
how am i supposed to pick up chicks without irc?????
Nah...we don't need to do something like this...
We just need to use the right bait to lure the SlashTrolls out into the open, where we can deal with them as we please.
My proposal:
Everyone knows that trolls love peanut butter. They'll do anything for a gob of that sticky, nutty goodness.
Slashtrolls seem to also have a predeliction for statues resembling Natalie Portman's naked form.
They also seem to like to throw hot grits down their pants (I'm assuming by this that SlashTrolls are an enlightened breed to Troll that do wear clothing, unlike the GhettoTrolls and TrailerParkTrolls that abhor such items).
SO what we need is a peanut-butter covered naked/petrified Natalie Portman statue, holding a bowl of fresh, hot grits.
The trolls will be unable to resist the nutty smell of peanut butter, combined with their attraction to the Portman statue. They will come out of their lairs and approach the statue. They will then see the steaming bowl of grits and will be unable to control their urges any longer.
While they fight amongst themselves as to whom will get to pour the grits down their pants and lick the creamy peanut butter off of the petrified form of Ms. Portman, we will have the perfect opportunity to strike, ridding ourselves of the SlashTrolls once and for all.
This has been a public service announcement from the Anti SlashTroll Alliance (ASTA).
The way to deal with crackers is to throw them to the four winds and leave their head impaled on a stick with the caption "Wanna be next?" in public for other crackers to see and fear.
To hook up with chicks
You need to hone your "m4d sk1llz"
And stop jerking off.
;)
Thank you,
The Haiku Guy
From IRCnet, There have been abusive opers, and they have lost their O-lines for abusing the rules. However, the script kiddies are much much worse. On the channel I spend most of my time on, we have had almost relentless attacks from script kiddies, only prevented by IRCops. I haven't seen them unfairly /killing or K-lining anybody.
Not every network is the same, and the people who "respond" are rarely particurly sensible people - I've known enough IRC script kiddies in my time to see this. If they get kickbanned from a channel, unlike your average user who just thinks "what a bunch of tossers", they aim their revenge squarely at the channel and then take it so that people know that they are all mighty and powerful.
one alternative would be to switch to something like Jabber (www.jabber.org) en-mass :) Systems like it do things like obscure both people's real identities and their machine IP addresses - making traditional script-kiddy denial attacks impossible.
Part of the problem is also just the power-model of IRC. Three levels of users, with each being able to do more than the level before (+v'd users can talk on a moderated channel, +o users can pretty much take over and ban everyone on a channel). Making each channel 'owned' by someone above all else would make things like channel takeover through flooding impossible.
In my opinion, it is these flood wars on users that cause things to escillate(sp?) up to full scale DDoS attacks.
And you know what, that tactic works: The little rat that did the crime probably had an accomplice or at least someone else was in the know. The pressure of 20 other kids not getting recess will cause the perp's buddys to crack, and the perp is uncovered.
If not, he probably gets the snot beat out of him when recess is reinstated, so long as teacher conveniently looks the other way.
It takes a pretty childish mentality to break such a useful resource to begin with, so why not treat them like children? I say take the servers down permanently, leaving web pages up that say "Here's what happens when you abuse the internet. Don't blame us, blame THEM."
Then again, I don't IRC much anymore.
--Threed
Browsing at +2, or else on my Cell Phone. I see no trolls.
HeeHee, We have/had one at my ISP. An ES10 named camel22. I don't know if it is even turned on anymore. We (the NOC) wanted to move it to the lou; nearer the faucets. Little feller kept smokin' with all the attacks.
Bandwidth monitors would spike. We'd wake the guy responsible up nightly and finally we all decided to just watch it cook. It may still be there but we don't care. 3000 boxen back there and this one caused more problems that all the rest combined.
I don't believe he's saying that at all. What I think he's trying to point out is that whining won't get any problems solved. If they have a serious problem with DoS attacks, they should ACT and not talk. I don't consider this an act, I consider it a cowardly, "easy" way out. Administrators have to realize that new exploits and DoS attacks have IRC for a breeding ground, and must decide whether they wish to maintain the server or put it out of comission. KrON isn't trying to point out that they should take the heat (although at times, yes there are new exploits such as stream.c which emerged a couple of weeks ago for which admins had no choice but to accept some downtime until they could get the source code) but rather look for solutions. A "strike" is not going to resolve matters at all. To me, it's like having authorities close a certain street because too much violence occurs there. What is gonna happen? The criminals are gonna look for other streets until this one reopens, and in the meantime the people that have been living peacefully on that street all this time get screwed over. OK, so the analogy isn't that great, but you get the point.
/users returns:
I hate to break it to the IRCNet admins, but there's more than one IRC network. There's more than 100. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was over a thousand. They'll find another court to play in, and come back to their neighborhood when the yellow tape comes off. My point is, this won't resolve anything. It could even deteriorate the situation.
Oh, and for the record:
On Efnet,
Current global users: 60655 Max: 63127
I haven't been on IRCnet in awhile, but I'd be surprised to find over 60,000 users there.
I believe you did.
Can you hook me up?
I'm el1t3_d00d on Efnet, I can trade you warez and shells!
(oh go waste your moderation points on something more interesting!)
It won't do a damn thing in the first place.
A script kiddie usually has shells. Lots of shells. Shells he can smurf, slice, nestea, stream, <put other exploit name here> from. Yes, it is true that a K-line will not only make matters worse and anger the g0ds (or whatever their alias might be), but more importantly it won't do a damned thing. Guess what, they can get a new IP/hostname and log right back on. They have a choice between spoofing, hacking newbie boxens, or using one of their many v-hosts from which they either telnet/ssh or have bnc set up. Anyone who's been on IRC has noted the most original (I personally liked FadeTo.blackened.com) to the most ridiculous (bill.gates.is.a.closet.unixnerd.org (how retarded is that?)) v-host in the more popular, non-newbie IRC channels. You must understand that a K-line is like locking a door in an endless hallway of unlocked doors that all open to the same house.
If I was offered to be an IRC operator on Efnet, I would have to turn it down despite my endless hours wasted chatting because I could never handle such a responsibility. I'm quite simply not knowledgeable enough when it comes to networking protocols to handle such a situation. Maybe in a few years... :)
No IRCop in his right mind would K-Line you or /kill you for using 'darn.' Heck (pardon my French), most I know would /kill you for being too damn polite (no, not really, unless you actually knew them and they were teasing... vanity kills!).
/whois command on an alias.
/kill or k-line on something as ridiculous as usage of the word "darn" because that would increase the amount of kills by 5000000% making Mr. or Mrs. IRCop a busy, busy person, but if he/she knows what's good for him/her, will avoid performing such radical commands over such ridiculous matters. I don't think there's a single IRC Operator on a single IRC network that has yet to be DoS'ed, before or after (although most likely after) becoming an operator. They know it's an unpleasant experience. They'll avoid using their authority in questionable terms, and sometimes will avoid involvement altogether, such as getting in between channel takeovers on Efnet for example.
Channel operators have the RIGHT to make up their own rules, it's what makes IRC so darn (oh my, here I go again, pardon me!) popular. If you visit #bible, you should expect God's wrath (ie, a kick + ban) for using 'questionable' language. Get on one of the major networks (Efnet, Dalnet, Undernet, IRCnet... oops cross off that last one) and trust me, most channels won't ban you for swearing. I'm sure a significant percentage of them has a swear word as part of the channel name. My personal favorite is #why.the.fuck.are.you.whoising.me when performing the
In any event, your average IRC Operator will not only be disinterested in performing a
As a side note, for those of you who think Efnet sucks because it doesn't have ChanServ or NickServ, well that's everyone's opinion. I personally can't stand the idea that someone owns a certain alias or a certain channel. If you aren't appealed by the idea, you should get on another network such as Dalnet. For those of you who don't know what ChanServ is, it's a service that keeps ownership of a certain channel for you. You can register a password through a bot allowing you to get operator status. NickServ works the same way, but keeps your alias (your 'nick') for you when you're offline.
- Insurance premiums are scaled on the average cost -- if everyone on your plan has health problems, your premium goes up as well. Sucks, eh?
- Seniority, especially in Union shops, is a key factor when downsizing. Often, work quality is not even a consideration. This has happened to me.
- It shouldn't work like this, but it really does a lot of the time.
Perhaps you could use better examples?--
: remove whitespace to e-mail me
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
*grin* What would be different? Slashdot always is incessantly lagged whenever I get home and access it; might as well consider it down...
the real at&t mix
The kiddies do DoS attacks against IRC servers to reach particular goals.
There are, in my experience, three common goals the kiddies go for:
The kiddies are usually NOT out to DoS down the entire IRC network; they are using that network, and trying to gain prestige with other kiddies on it. Their attacks are fairly precise, and usually fairly short.
As a server operator, I think that the idea of shutting down the IRC network to send a message to the kiddies is a good idea. I have a couple of concerns with it, though:
However, all in all I still think it is a rather good way of saying Enough already!
Eivind.
Doubting the existence of evolution is like doubting the existence of China: It just shows that you're uninformed.
Yeah, that'll work. Look how effective peer pressure is on AC's here on Slashdot. :-)
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Apparently being moderated up isn't going to be a problem here. Hope I get this one in Meta-moderating.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I thought they tried it last night (EDT) for 4 or 5 hours. I sure couldn't get through, even though I could reach plenty of other sites.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Good, I'm not the only person to have noticed.
I can see it now, though. "I'm not crazy, officer, it really was down. Anonymous coward can corroborate my story!
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Maybe we *should* close down the entire Internet for a day or so for spring cleaning.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Your post probably deserves a +1 more than mine does, but it's been sitting here over half a day ignored by the moderators for any of a number of what may or may not be perfectly good and valid reasons.
Because of that, I browse at a painful -1 (attention sig nazis, the sig is a joke). The most obvious peer pressure here is the attempt to outdo each other in offensiveness and obnoxiousness.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
All this will do is piss off their users. I guess slashnet, undernet, dalnet, and efnet will be getting some more regular users. I mean its not like IRCnet is the only irc network out there. If you lock people out they will go elsewhere and not come back. I dunno what that accomplishes.
you forgot porn! oh god the porn.
shut up shut up SHUT UP
Maybe /. here ought to voluntarily (this time) become unavailable for a day or so.
This would be a great show of commeraderie to our IRC bretheren. It would give us all a first hand sense of Denial Of Service.
Hey! I would have a chance to catch up on some work...
I bet Andover would never go for it though. All those lost ADVERTISING dollars.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
But it isn't the script kiddies who figured out how to DDOS you in the first place. The definition of a script kiddie is someone who isn't smart enough to find the security hole, but is smart enough to run the hack that someone else has created for them. Eventually your new protocol will get cracked by somebody, and once they write a tool to let the kiddies DOS you by pointing and clicking, you'll be in just as much trouble as IRCnet is now.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Such displays may not do much to discourage the Oppositional-Defiant Personality types, or those who feel so dispossessed that they don't even see themselves as part of the larger Internet community (or many other types we seem to love over-generalizing about)...
...but they do *something* to suggest to the general community that this is a problem -- "our" problem, not "their" problem, where "they" is some highly paid corporate IT professional network manager.
I think the shutdown is a valuable display of solidarity
__________
If you can go to bed, knowing you did a valuable thing today, you're very lucky. If you can't... it's not bedtime
On one of those systems -- it may have been ITS -- they gout around the problem of juvenile users crashing the OS (and destroying the work others were doing at the time) by adding a 'kill' command . Now it was no longer cool or clever to crash the OS, it was trivial and juvenile. A yawner.
I really do wish we could implement this on the internet, but it would never work, not with dozens of newbies logging on for the first time every second [there's a scary statistic for you: tens of millions of new users per year divided by half a million seconds a year]
Not to mention the prospects of typos on command line interfaces, people experimenting without RTFM'ing, and all those 'wits' who enjoy telling newbies to rm -rf
But boy, it's a pleasant thought!
__________
If you can go to bed, knowing you did a valuable thing today, you're very lucky. If you can't... it's not bedtime
Part of the problem is that the "internet" consists of something akin to "anarchy that works", and really has little in the way of central authority figures to patrol the thing.
This, however, can remedied if we recall the old saying of "with freedom comes responsibility". A fair amount of us know someone who is involved in activities such as this. Talk to them. Work with them. Hell, smack 'em up the head if need be. As "net citizens" it's only we that can effect real change in the culture of the net. If everyone here could work on just one or two potential script kiddies and turn them into "free, yet responsible" users, online life would be *so* much nicer.
Hey, I can dream, can't I?
Top drawer comment. I applaud. I suggest that the irc admins do further than a rather weak ban. I'd say you have to teach the lesson 1st time or it's never going to get learnt. Consider the situation if IRCnet shuts down, the kiddies shunt elsewhere and then ech net shuts down until all is quiet. Then the IRC admins could relly get people's attention at this point. It's like standing dead silent waiting to say something - you do get people's attention more quickly than you'd expect. The network may be able to restart after that or a self enforced silent period. For all the genuine users this should not be a hardship. A move to a webchat room should be acceptable for the short term. As this really is a free and now fairly unreliable service due to the DDoS, anyone who is betting their business on it is foolish in the extreme. Who would loose the most? I think the kiddies would.
ooops - Sorry. Silly formatting.
So you mean to tell me that all their servers will be unavailable when I try to connect? They will tell me that "No more connections are allowed?"
Is anyone going to notice?
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Yeah ... But is a bit like a graffiti wall where its legit to practice spray can art.
... neighbourhoods where all the bus stops are painted don't get as much graffiti as bland boring others.
...) on the net and get a competitive spirit going ...
Some kids use em
Maybe it will create a contra example to the skript kiddies and get some other ideas into their 'community'.
It more trying to alleviate some of the problem, and maybe co-opt some of the brighter ones to our side that to fix it completely.
I think it is feasible. Hang a couple of nice tight boxes (ha ha
Maybe its worth a try, maybe I am dreaming.
Let's see, UTC+200 = 10:00 am GMT.
Brings that to roughly 2am on the US East coast and 11pm on the US West Coast? Just after IRC prime time.
Sure. This is going to work...
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire
K-lining a script kiddie is guaranteed to bring a DoS attack, that's why. Get the point? If these admins are going to be attacked for administering their own networks, then it's really not worth their while to provide this free service to people. If everyone would stop whining about their IRC being taking away, and comparing this to grade school punishment, they may actually realize that people are getting tired of running IRC servers, which is painfully evident on rapidly-shrinking Efnet.
So you can't connect to IRC for a day...if things don't change, the large IRC networks will gradually disappear. Not that this would necessarily be a bad thing, but it's pretty silly to whine about being denied a free service, for which the admins receive no compensation or reward, just a lot of juvenile whining.
As an IRC Operator, and, as a user, and, as a former server admin. I've seen many changes, both good and bad on IRC.
DoS attacks have gotten way out of hand. To the point that providers are no longer so willing to donate anything to operating the medium, because of the inherent risks involved. Who can blame them?
IRC is a *free* service. Its unmoderated. And, it has been here for a long time. The people such as myself who devote time, money, resources, are getting *fed UP* with the small minority of people who think its their GOD GIVEN right to smurf a server, or an oper. Its not. And, honestly, I can understand the motive behind this shutdown.
People are getting tired of volunteering, and indeed, donating their time, money and effort only to have someone Distribute a smurf attack that cripples not only their target, but a wide geographical area just so someone can flip a finger.
DDoS is *not* a right. Its not *cool*. Its the act of someone who is small in mind, who suddenly has to do something disruptive because thats the only way they can communicate. Its base primitive behavior. To be the loudest one of all. Its the bigger dick contest to an extreme, and it affects everyone. It is, quite simply, the act of a coward who has yet to learn the value of real communication.
So, I would say, to any of you, whether your use IRC, or dont, re-evaluate your position on this. IRC is an old medium. Its the best realtime conference medium available. Its changed alot yes, we are no longer the same medium described in RFC1459, I doubt Jarrko ever thought it would go this far. But, it did. And here we are.
Yes, this affects users as well. Yes, the smurf and packet kiddies will probably find other targets. That is not the point.
The point is: If you cant use the medium properly, then we arent gonna provide it for you. Period. Nobody is making money off running IRC. We have no motive in providing you the service. We do it because we enjoy the medium, and feel the medium is so good, its worth sharing, but, if you want to abuse our good will, and the effort we put forth...
Then, your damn right, we *will* pick up our ball and go home.
Supernaut
Supernaut
Yeah, and people swapping passwords for prawn sites.... ;-)
Information wants to be beer.
Correction, all services. And the point I beleive was being made is that someone's idea of fun made life difficult for 1500 students.
No, it's not quite as bad as the network of a business being brought down, but it is almost. I'm not sure of the exact setup of the network at the university, but I know that most of the computers I use, and all of the ones in my department, would be made useless by the lack of DNS. This would mean I am unable to do work. I know, students working is a bit of a novel concept, but despite popular belief we do, and one night's lost work can make a big difference!
eh? what? speak up, sonny!
-- he's not heavy, he's my sysadmin!
You're missing the point entirely.
It's not that the server cannot connect to EFNet because the DoS attacks soak up all the bandwidth or something.
It's because when it's connected to EFNet, it becomes a target for DoS. When it isn't connected, none of the weenies know or care it exists, and your ISP is no longer chosen to receive DoS attacks.
"due to" in the sense of "to prevent", rather than "because of".
Regards,
Tim.
I was wondering
Please forgive my ignorance
What is senryu?
Chemical slaps AC around a bit with a large trout.
Well.. ya. I mean, the kiddies responsible for DDoS use IRC. They probably use it more than me. So it kinda sends them a message about what they're doing.
They have this facination with annoying and causing others inconvenience. So why not give it right back? I know it affects others too, but 1 day isn't that bad. Personally, I hope it happens some more.
DDoS is really a stupid thing to do. The kiddies need to grow up. I wish this would help... I tend to think it won't have a huge impact though.
Well, take that scenario, and insert club instead of house. Someone comes to town who regulars your club but also hurts it. Your club is one of the best in the world. They could go somewhere else, but don't want to. So close your doors.
See, I agree.. but I'm not sure about your analogy.
The reason this works with students is that they can give each other dirty looks until those responsible start changing. But on IRC things are just too anon. Somebody in #meaninglesschat isn't going to care about, much less pressure, some kiddie in the adjacent room.
I do think it'll annoy the kiddies, but I'm not sure what the outcome will be. They might see the error of their ways (ya, that could happen) or they could retaliate.
They should not need to fight in order to continue giving away something.
If IRC collapses, chatters will have to go into the commercial "chat rooms" filled with adds, pop-up sh*t and such.
Tell the "hackers / crackers" you know about that very likely outcome of their activites.
A recent /. story told us about some site only allowing their IRC version - yes, it shows adds!
Best regards,
Niels Kr. Jensen
-- From Denmark
I see your point.
But, what does this prove? What good is an un netted IRC server?
Sure, people can gather there, but that's not what IRC is about. That's like putting up a public website, but denying all requests from any net but 192.168.x.x. The website still works, but it's barely useful.
I see that irc.nbnet.nb.ca is down now. Doesn't even let me make a connection to 6667. Guess they got tired of fighting off attacks, like you said.
This mentality sucks.
My primary EFNet server (through my ISP, irc.nbnet.nb.ca) is now unlinked - to ANY net. The MOTD says something along the lines of "This server has been taken offline for an indefinate amount of time due to DDoS attacks"
_WHAT_?
I mean, if the server can dish out the MOTD, why can't it just keep trying to reconnect to EFNet.
I emailed my ISP. I stated that I had been using IRC for about 6 years and how unhappy I was with their decision to take the server down, and they sent back a letter listing other IRC servers that I could use. Gee, thanks. I've only been using IRC for longer than irc.nbnet.nb.ca existed. I had no CLUE that there were other servers out there. Wow. They opened up a whole new world to me.
*eyeroll*
B. Did I say it was OK? No, just better than. Or do you propose people will just believe that the internet is insecure without having it demonstrated to them? Not likely.
The moment the world lapses into a sense of security over the internet is the moment a life-critical application becomes dependent on it, and is two moments before a catastrophic, "unexpected" failure or terrorist attack.
I would prefer that my systems be continually tested in a natural, dynamic environment rather than to have some sort of artifical "harmony" through luck or law grant the internet asylum... until the Big BSOD. Call me paranoid. Call me Old School. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and so on.
My argument implies that, all things being equal, DOS attacks increase in cost|damage with time. Not necessarily that their cost equals zero today, but near enough zero when viewed in light of the internet's expected lifespan. So, as long as DOS attack frequency remains constant or does not increase exponentially into the future (a function hopefully of the knowledge gained from every DOS attack in the present) the future benefits of DOS attacks today far exceed any piddly costs a DOS victim today could ever claim (legitimately or not).
I know you were obligated to post this response, so I don't hold it against you; however, I hope you realize how inane it is.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
Why not just shut down slashdot. And to protest against drunk driving why not declare a no driving day! Hell, lets just have martial law!
Mabbe the sysadmins that are locking up shop are planning on studying different ways to combat DoS attacks.I did hear that one guy had a flux capacitor to install and configure.
It does sound very silly and childish to punish the many for the sins of thew few sounds like sysadmin powertripping to me. Try this analogy...a bar fight....does the bar close because a few jackasses throw some hooks? Its just stupid. A DoS denies service, as does this silly garbage,no matter what the motivation or source of that Dos. I guess it is each sysadmins right to pull his server at any time , but in this instance I think they are just shooting their own feet.
"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither. " Ben Franklin
I wish I would have known that crapping in the sink was bad, then I wouldn't have missed so many recesses. Sorry to all my fellow classmates who missed recess because nobody informed me about the sink.- -
------------------------------------------
Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
Im looking forword for the unused bandwidth!
This is just stupid. How in the world do they think this will help? Presumably to gain some attention (media) on DoS issues? The point is not media attention. The point is to show them script kiddies that their beloved irc will go away for good if they dont learn to behave. Its to show them and their friends that DoSing a irc server is not 31337, its annoying as can be. This sort of folks _need_ the cluestick. Btw, I am not making this up, I actually talked with one of the responsible Ircops.
nc
I will not buy this software, it is scratched
I, personally, have always thought denial of service to be the most childish of assault tactics. Whether it is ping flooding, syn flooding, win nuking, or other makes no difference. The fact of the matter is, even if it is an exploit of a particular OS or protocol implementation, it is just plain Not Nice(TM). To be blunt, it is childish and borderline moronic.
There must be some power trip derived from the realization that the software you just downloaded is capable of blue screening a windows box, or causing a kernel panic, or just increasing network traffic to the point that the system physically cannot handle it. I fail to see it, myself. It is most certainly not hacking. There is no elegance to it, it is simply a matter of control and who has it. By shutting down the services of the network, they're giving in to the script kiddie's desires. Because of their actions, the protest gives them what they want...effective control, albeit rather indirectly.
More often than not script kiddies have larger ego problems than average trouble makers, I sincerely doubt they move in packs--they're just not that kind of animal, in my estimation.
If indeed the DDoS attacks are the product of a l337 c4dr3 of script kiddies, they should get a clue and grow up. Though, there is value in learning about how to defend against denial of service: it keeps coders on their toes.
just my $.02US.
zerodvyd
How is this different than the article about Talk City shutting its gates to other IRC clients? All they are trying to do was stop hacking/flooding/denial of service attacks. For all those that support this, but down TC for doing what they're doing are insane.
Trying to look deeper
Fake erudition
Once spoke a fellow called Tucan,
"I think that you need a clue, man!
A lim'rick's not haiku!"
I have one for you, too;
I rhyme a lot better than you can!
--
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
There once was a hacker named Mike who
Tried to pick up a gal on his bike-u.
But his bike (the poor guy!)
Just did not catch her eye
So he tried with some really bad haiku.
(I'd post this at 0, but I can't.)
--
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Well Van Gogh did in fact cut his ear to fulfill his main duty : painting.
:)
In fact he was painting an autoportrait and after many a try he didn't succeed in painting his right ear in a good way.
So he took the easy way
--
Someone tell me why god placed the X and C keys so close one of the other!
I've seen people's lives runed by Alcoholism a lot more frequently then IRC addiction. And if your addicted to irc, your not likely to get into a car drunk and kill someone else.
This is a *very* slippery slope.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
If they don't believe you and AC, tell them to ask me. I had to do a lookup and grab one of the other two server IP's to get one that was working properly. :)
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
All I know is that most people who would do a DOS attack are doing it to get a reaction. To get on the news. To make people angry. To cause the server to have some highly irrational response such as closing down for a day which gets its posted on slashdot so everybody online knows about it....
Seems like this is a great way to encourage more attacks...
This sounds like an extended symptom of a DoS attack! The script kiddies will learn that they can take down the IRC network by breaking into a few web sites.
Personnaly, I'm uncomfortable using the word. But I ask myself why I feel this way. The best answer I can come up with is fear of reprisal. Which is the reason you gave for not using it. I don't consider myself a racist, I try to accept people for what they are(which is very hard to do, I'm human afterall). I don't need to use the word, I guess I just don't like being forced or manipulated or convinced (whichever term you prefer) to think and act a certain way.
Boy, that's really offtopic! What's this story about again : )
Check out AbiWord.
I think its kind of ironic that you would quote such an anti-politically correct movie yet sensor the line in an attempt to be politically correct.
Remember, words aren't bad, people are.
Check out AbiWord.
That's a nice idea.. however you're forgetting that the typical people performing these denial of service attacks, especially related to IRC, are in their teens, and do not have any money to speak of.
This isn't like patching a daemon and restarting it - networks are living, breathing entities who want to transfer data to each other.
Maybe if most network administrators/CIO's/etc were conscious of what is flowing through their networks - sure MRTG makes pretty graphs, but what does that traffic consist of? With effective traffic monitoring, routing, filtering policies in place by everyone, securing of internal networks, especially broadband customers - now that things like TFN/trin00/et al are in wide dispersal, simply blocking broadcasts at key routers is not going to do the trick -- know what travels through your network, don't just keep buying bigger pipes.
My $0.02 (tax exclusive)
-- Brian Rbrian is at entropy dot net
see http://www.antionline.com/wargames/
it's cooperatively run by antionline and somebody else. It may have it's uses, but I think that most script kiddies to it to be annoying/show they have power, not just for the thrill of the hack.
it's DOS, it's not as complex as rooting a box or finding a real volnerability (sp) -- the people that are doing that probably have their own boxes anyhow.
willis/
there is no thing
what else could you want?
If she charges one ear for roll in the hay, she must not get too many repeat customers.
Well, maybe one repeat.
damn that's a good idea though...maybe someone at Mozilla could throw something in on the 'n(i/u)x version at least with a little [abc] button that calls ispell? Is this even possible with the licenses? I'm imagining that it could be done in /. however it has probably been discussed, and given the effect the users have on it at busy periods, all those instances of spellchecking would probably cripple the servers...
...5 years from now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5.
Stopping the IRC service, in effect, is doing exactly what they shouldn't do. Look at most western countries response to terrorism (which is exactly what the DOS attacs are). When faced with terrorism, never negotiate with terrorists becuase they might get the idea that they can influence your actions. The script kiddies might think it cool that they can shut down parts of IRC. Then the attacks become something to brag about. Thus leading to more attacks.
I think the people who run the IRC servers that are being temp. shut down are bent over a barrell. IRC doens't enjoy media popularity that other parts of the internet enjoy. As a result they have to resort to drastic measures to get people's attention, even then that attention is likely only to come from the slashdot crowd. The admins need to do something and it will take something drastic to get everyone's attention. At the same time, how do you do something drastic without having to shut yourself down. Tough question, the answers may be even tougher.
No cigar, no lady on his arm, just a guy made of dots and lines. - TMBG
Pair up in threes. - Yogi Berra
This is not to imply that there arent lots of 1337 HaX0Rz and other annoying creatures trolling around on IRC to get their 31337 0-D@y w@R3z. There are. But there's also a lot of golden stuff out there for those who know where to look. Just because you might not have gotten much out of IRC recently doesn't mean the rest of us don't.
--
There is a difference - trolling requires at least a modicum of thought and creativity, whereas the UCTAM idiots, MOO FUCKAZ and so on is just spam calling itself a troll. And yeah, I'm sure doing something like that here on /. would mean they'd just do it twice as much once you came back online - and it's not like they'd care if /. shut down for a day or whatever is it?
IT COULD WORK!
It's a bummer I inhabit EFnet instead of IRCnet. This might have actually made me go outside or something.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
So they're going to punish all their happy users for a little while because someone else is dos'ing websites? And why exactly would the trouble makers care about this? I wouldn't exactly call the dos'ing terrorism in the normal sense, but it's a similar thing. And protesting doesn't stop terrorists, it gives them the attention they want. It's going to do the same thing for the people messing with the web.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Yes, I know.
He chopped of his ear, and sent it to a girlfriend or something...
But my point was that the IRC servers are cutting off their main function, whereas Van Goth did not.
Mind you, a lot of people may just be forced to do something useful, like program something...
... which reminds me, I've gotto do some work.
-wink-
Of cource, this may just force some people to find alternate ways of entertainment, like finding these scripts and trying them out...
IRC is quite a good place for people to vent their frustration.
DoS is admittedly becoming quite a problem, I think this was a good move.
Dom.
Only if Van Gogh chopped off his hands,
methinks.
It has to do with purpose.
(The way this is continuting, we are "rapidly running out of limbs...")
-grin-
The lame-ass script kiddies that are pulling this crap are going to probably see this as a great victory... They'll be telling all of their lame friends that they shut down IRCNet, now too. While I'm with the ops in locking the system for a while in protest, I can see where the lame-ass script kiddies could see this as 'their work in action.' Oh lord.... -- [Looks into Bucket of Truth] Don't you think I know that!!!!!
Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition!
Why not k-line the script kiddies for good and leave the good netizens alone?
If design is not Bauhaus, it is Baroque.
I've read a couple of complaints like yours in previous posts, and frankly, I'm annoyed by them. Maybe you're talking about netorks like EFnet or some of the other big ones, but your statement about "everybody on IRC" is flat out wrong. The IRC network I use (openprojects) has almost *none* of the problems you talk about. And I know many other of the smaller ones are like that. Just like some neighborhoods in a city may have problems, that doesn't mean the ENTIRE city is a waste. Let's stop with the gross generalizations.
--------
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Well, this sound pretty crazy...
Auto Denial of Service
It just saves the script kiddies the effort to obtain what they want to achieve!
Who's to say the DOS attackers won't simply setup their own IRC servers? They may not be very good sysadmins but surly there would be a few easy to setup Windows-based IRC servers. I also have to agree with the line that it may just encourage the kiddies. "c00l!!!!! W3 MaD3 a BuNCh 0f b1g s3rv3r ShTuD0wN!!!!!!! L3Ts d0 th1s Aga1N!!!!!!!"
Gotta agree. Sure, a lot of channels on IRC are just crap, and a lot of people you meet are less-than-intelligent life, but there are places where you can actually find something valuable.
There are places where I've gotten a lot of help and encouragement in stuff like coding, music, etc., just by meeting people who share my views or who are further ahead in the field.
Another redeeming quality of IRC, IMHO, is the fact that you get to meet people you'll never have a chance to meet IRL (or you wouldn't want to meet IRL) and get to talk to them without the unconscious prejudices we all get when we see them IRL. To me, talking to somebody whom I'd never get along with IRL and learning to see things from their point of view is a valuable experience.
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
Van Goth didn't cut off his ear. He just painted it black.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
Please try to convince me that you are making constructive use of your time by posting on slashdot. It's more of the same, really. IRC is a perfect medium for people to meet and have actual conversations (the possibility exist and it actually takes place). It also serves as a platform for lonely and depressed people to keep some form of community spirit. And it's a good platform for people with a hearing impairment to have actual conversations without being 'different'.
The shutdown action, although I question its helpfulness, is mostly intended as a protest against the few who indeed should get a life outside of irc. I have one, thank you, but I would have more of it if I didn't get called out of bed frequently because some spoiled brat didn't get any pudding.
Pi
There are definitely organizations, or gangs of irc "warriors". With vast amounts of hacked .edu machines at their disposal. And waaaaay too much time on their hands.
Pi
So it's okay that this happens? It's okay for people to suffer tremendous monetary damages just so that the rest of the world doesn't think the internet is safe? Bandwidth is not free, don't believe the hype. Lots of bandwidth serving no reason but to keep an irc server down is certainly not free.
Pi
Stray cats? Seen it happen before. I pity the admin who doesn't know where their opers live. I wouldn't give someone an O-line if I didn't know where to send the cab when I'd feel like bringing my baseball bat over for closer inspection;).
Pi
No, generally these are very territorial animals. The main network is the one where they are known, loathed and worshipped by their peers.
Pi
Benign? Are you nuts? The average net.tsunami that you get tossed at your network by p4kk3t k0uri3rs if you run an IRC server on one of the four big'uns will easily exceed the 10 Mbps mark. We can handle such abuse, but it's at the very least a gigantic waste of bandwidth that can easily cost real bucks if it happens constantly.
Running an irc server is a thankless job. You end up having to justify big spendings on network traffic that keeps being severely disrupted whenever a teenage script kiddo eats too much chocolate. If you start fighting them, you will be called a selfish megalomanic uebernazi. I'm not at all disgruntled, and still enjoy hosting an Undernet server, but I see a lot of other admins going through this horror.
One after the other, they may very well get to the point where they realize that IRC is just not worth the effort anymore. Welcome to AOL chatrooms then, fellows, hope you had your day.
Pi
There is a huge difference between floodbots, which only cause problems *within* IRC and can be countered *within* IRC and actual denial-of-service attacks against the servers. These are totally different animals, eating huge amounts of bandwidth and causing disturbance usually to entire providers, not just the IRC server. It sometimes gets to the point where ISPs have to announce a null route for the irc server way upstream to prevent them from being unreachable for large parts of the day. That is not good old-fashioned fun, that's ip.terrorism.
Pi
Then you don't understand the average IRC warrior kiddo. They're soooo into IRC, it's their world. They want to be in Control of their Universe. Although I don't think this is really going to help ircnet, it does remind people of what may happen if things get further out of hand.
You also forget that, traditionally, irc has always been the primary interest of young script-kiddies. The most frequent clue system administrators get when machines are cracked is the mystery appearance of an eggdrop bot running on the system. This is all because of the instant gratification factor. IRC is realtime, so any mighty abuse you may be able to display is instantly visible and perpetually annoying. How convenient a method to cry away your want for adolescent attention, so much better than trying to do things that are actually _useful_.
Pi
The attacks happen, period. Also, I think the logic fails entirely within those kiddos if they would flood the servers into being unreachable when they are pissed off about the fact that the servers were unreachable.
Pi
By hiding the addresses of the clients, you create more reasons for the kiddos to start flooding the servers immediately if they want to keep someone out. Doesn't sound like a smart move.
Pi
There are two good ways to protect from beeing taken over (no i don't count bots).
:)
1) Have a really boring channel so you don't really care if you get taken over or not.
2) When you get taken over, make no effort whatsoever to get it back, just move to another channel and continue there.
Worked great for #ZiF (which happends to be both)
...but aren't they opening themselves up to revenge attacks. I don't know how much the culprits use IRC to coordinate these attacks but this sort of action needs to be thought out seriously before it is taken. I'm sure they have but as far as I know this could be a risky move. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
True, but then again, neither is the *average* script kiddie. The damage caused by your average DoS attack is potentially much greater than that of a bit of paint on a bridge. I mean you cant just get them to come in and wash the paint off afterwards, the damage is already done. These networks cost someone a lot of money (and in a lot of cases they are being maintained gratis) so causing them to be taken off-line for long periods costs the maintainers. It also costs everyone who wants to use them.
Phear my l33t homepage.
Thanks for that laugh :)
Phear my l33t homepage.
So, I would like to announce my refusal to use the Internet for the next 2 nights in order to support the IRC in their endeavor against the DDOS attacks. Let those bastards who block internet access find out how harsh it will be on them that I am not going to even care about DDOS attacks since I'll be OFF THE NET! :)
Look at me, everyone, I am a magic man.
You can't handle the truth.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what types of channels these people hang out on, so shut down the most popular takeover group hangouts and forbid the use of the nicks of the people in there for about a week, and eventually they will go somewhere else or not even bother.
This works - how? I just dont get it. Whats the theory behind this fascinating use of psychology?
Isnt it a bit like refusing to copy-protect software to twart crackers?
Bizarre...and futile. I`ll bet anyone anything that there`ll still be DOS attacks after this.
Hear hear. This strikes me as utterly pointless - I can't see any reason to do this whatsoever. All it does is annoy people. If someone broke into my house I wouldn't burn it down in protest...
This is very much like what has happened to IRC -- the level of abuse as well as the level of severity of the methods has gradually risen during the past 10 years.
Although nobody likes to be reminded about it, most of you are newcomers to the net. Most of you have been here less than 10 years. Most of you cannot even remember the net before the web -- some of you may remember having used email of some sort before the net or downloaded shareware from BBS'es.
There has always been some level of abuse on IRC, that is correct, but you are painfully wrong if you think that the distributed denial of service attacks of today have always been used within the context of IRC. Although I would grant you that IRC has always attracted the worst among the anti-social elements of the net. This is where losers gather. This is where losers vindicate their sad lives and for a brief moment feel they are worth something when they reach out and screw up someone else's network.
A network someone has to pay for. It is just a question of time before more servers disappear. People don't need this kind of trouble. They don't need someone to punish them every day because they want to offer a free service to the community. Constant denial of service attacks, harassment, threats, internet connections that are bogged down -- it has to end somewhere.
Either people realize that this isn't cool or things like large IRC-networks will go away.
Being an IRC administrator myself I have often wondered why I am doing this. Why do I even bother? It would be far less trouble for me to say "okay, I've given you 7-8 years of my time offering you a service, but now I am taking too much crap for this so from now on I'm taking the server down and donating the hardware to charity". I can always create a smaller IRC network for me and my friends that generates NO trouble at all since next to nobody will ever hear about it.
But that's kinda sad. Not being able to talk to people you've known on IRC for nearly a decade. Having to limit access to something that was built to be open, to encourage people to meet new people and to chat.
I'm not so sure if the "strike" is the best way to deal with this. I am going to participate and take out my server, but I don't like having to do this. My hopes is that it will grab the attention of people, that the issue will become subject of discussion, perhaps even outrage. My hopes is that people won't just shrug and say "hey, it's just IRC". These anti-social elements should scare the living shit out of every organization trying to do business on the net. The press should not be surprised when companies like Yahoo and Amazon are overrun by these kids -- it was bound to happen sooner or later. It is a result of the apathy, the ignorance and inability of everyone to deal with this.
So before you shoot off your mouth too much about this, try to picture yourself in our place. Chances are, most of you have probably never walked a mile in our shoes, have never had to fight to justify the existence of the service you provide against people who are sick and tired of constant abuse because they happen to donate resources so that people can enjoy a free service.
I'm not expecting this to solve anything in the short run. Maybe it will make people think. Maybe it will help contribute to making people, and corporations on the net, more aware that unless something is done about this, the problem will only grow and it will spill over into other arenas.
And please, I've hard all the quick-fix schemes there are, about making IRC more totalitarian, give opers more personal power, or hope that ISPs will wake up and dedicate resources to hunt down anti-social elements if you just pound them with mail.
Think ahead. Think about real solutions instead of stop-gap measures.
Making people wake up is a good first step. If you think this is a solution, or that the participands of the strike think this is the solution, you are wrong. Failure within the context of this "strike" would be if nobody cared. (and of that happens I will have to consider ripping my hub server out of the wall and donating it to the salvation army, because if people don't really give a rat's ass about a service they use then there's no point in fighting for its existence).
-Bjørn
The predominantly american part of the two networks continued under the name EFnet, while the other half eventually became known as IRCnet.
It should be noted that IRC originated in Finnland, and most (if not all) of the *.fi servers originally on EFnet went to the european side (IRCnet).
But all this is really irrelevant. What is relevant is that an old part of Internet culture is in jeopardy, and that the anti-social behaviour of a bunch of people is allowed perpetuate their modus operandi unhindered because nobody really cares.
-Bjørn
Seems like if you wanted to choose a derogatory term to prefer to call them, you could have come up with something more appropriate than "retarded little shits." Misanthropically or not, people like this have attacked a problem and found a (usually complex) solution.
If you're not wasted, the day is.
Good idea, but it is just not feasable whatsoever.
What would this tell all the script kiddies? That it's ok to do that? Heres a "practice" server, so when you attack yahoo next time, you'll take em down longer. This is what I see happening. It's just like making a shooting range of stuffed student dummys for the next columbine kids. Uh huh, that'll work.
-- We should kill all the intolerant people in the world.
If the DoS then continued, I would begin to consider writing an entirely new IRC protocol. It could still employ RFC 1459 to some extent, but a lot of the sensitive information (IP's, hub routes) would be masked from potential flooders. I recognise that this is security through obscurity, but considering the IQ of your average script kiddie is equivalent to that of a cabbage, it could well work.
The trouble is, even if you were to set up a server which would delegate a connection to you, to, say, a local server, then that initial server will be attacked. This is pretty much an inherant flaw within IPv4, but given the status quo, there is not much that can be done.
Bandwidth does not come free, and script kiddies realise this.
Locking out IRCnet is pointless. Especially announcing their actions. The people that they are trying to affect have time to plan, and will move to some other IRC network (EFnet, Undernet, FEFnet, etc...). So the only people getting shat upon is the legit users. Is IRCnet run by the .gov or something??? Cos that's a jackass move!
vrrrrt!
[Connection closed by foreign host]
Grtz, Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Although it will raise some attention to the DDOS problem, although it will probably result in more stupid laws preventing the wrong thing.
Grtz, Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
How the hell do you protest against a DDoS attack by shutting down your server? It makes no sense. I bet the "purpotraitors" are saying, "Hey, we got them to shut down their server, man! That worked out better than we expected!" If I was going to protest against this type of attack, I would expand my network or get a faster internet connection or something, I mean.. Geez Anybody else think this is just silly? ...and it'll do more harm than good?
Come on, guys give me a break. Everybody here is complaining 'oh no what should I do, no IRC, no contacts, ah my social life'. But you do not understand the importance fo the matter. For example, at the univeristy where I am studying, we had a DoS attack lastnight, which resulted in the fact that we were not able to check our mail, telnet into remote servers, even not being able to access educational materials. And all you can think of is that this is a a pre-emptive action. It is not. If these DoS attacks continue, I am sure many IRC servers will be shut down, and they are right to shut them down. Ward
Yeah, but the average person who spray paints a bridge won't make CNN headlines, get locked up for years, and forbidden to be within 100 feet of a can of paint for the rest of their lives.
What do all of these reactions (and this IRC strike) have in common? They got people who had no connection to creating the problem and no way of resolving it to resent the people in control of the situation. This unfocused 'strike' isn't going to discourage the problems; rather, it'll drive people away from one of the net's few remaining useful non-commercial resources. What are you running an IRC server for if you're going to be this spiteful to users who have never caused a problem? I mean, I appreciate the fact that these servers are available for free public use (though I quit using them three years ago) but if all it takes is a script kiddie to get you to yank your servers off the net for a day it might be time to leave the scene to someone with a bit more mettle.
Am I overreacting?
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
That's weird, it got posted twice... I wonder if it's because I was using Netscape 6? Or maybe some slashdot bug? Whatever.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
They aren't really bringing the servers down just to prevent script kiddies, instead, they need an excuse to upgrade the system and can't do it with the servers running. So instead of explaining that they need to bring the servers down to play Quake on them, they instead are saying that they are doing it as a move to stop script kiddies!
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
They aren't really bringing the servers down just to prevent script kiddies, instead, they need an excuse to upgrade the system and can't do it with the servers running. So instead of explaining that they need to bring the servers down to play Quake on them, they instead are saying that they are doing it as a move to stop script kiddies!
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
I've been banned from IRC lines that are "limited" to G rated language.
I said: Darn. Heck. Oh Man. That's Nasty. Jerk.
That's the problem with IRCops. They think because they are ops they should start making up rules as they go along. That IS NOT how the REAL "law" works. You set rules, and you follow them. No leniency, no "preventative examples". So I got kicked. Why? Why do YOU think? If you haven't seen a Disney movie with those words in it, well, you haven't seen a Disney movie yet.
I don't use IRC anymore. It is a TOTAL waste of time with asses like that op. I am NOT going to pretend I can read an ops mind, because I can't. If you don't want certain things to happen in a channel, LIST THEM CLEARLY, or conflict can and WILL occurr. The problem is, most people who are ops on channels have NEVER dealt with controlling a crowd of people. How many ops do you know that do public speaking? How many ops do you know that are (good) teachers? How many ops do you know that are law enforcement officials? How many ops have done done a public fundraiser, or been on TV? Unless you do something along those lines successfully, then you are proabably not cut out to control and direct a bunch of people.
Just my 2 cents.
That being said, flooding, or other wastes of people's time should not be tolerated.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
>We need to get constructive folks, and not continue to feed the machine.
:-)
:-)
No way man. We just need to separate America from the rest of the net. Of course, the way I read your post, that wouldn't leave any one else, would it?
And Americans wonder why they are called self-centered...
Like, what the heck is the FBI thing you keep talking about? And this S. 2092 policy? I don't have either of these in Canada.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
>/me thinks you're mixing IRCops and channel ops
:-|
You could be right... (As I scrape the egg from my face... cough cough). Which is the embarrased smiley?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Ahh, well that clears things up.
I'm now 1% more happier to live in Canada. Don't have to worry about the government tapping my phones here. Now, if only we could get free speech guaranteed by law...
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Is this really going to solve anything? Symbolically, it may bring attention to DDos attacks, and it may tell the world that IRCnet thinks they're wrong, but this stunt is about as productive as a hunger strike. Nothing is really accomplished here.
Boredom. Malice. If they can't destroy phonebooths or rip the windscreenwipers/mirrors off cars, they'll just DDOS IRC servers. Less chance of getting caught.
PS: For anyone who can't live without IRC, there's always other nets like DalNet, UnderNet, StarChat, etc...
and we can't shoot them
Why not?? It would slow the attacks.
The following statement is true. The preceding statement is false.
Anyway, I doubt this would work. A few months ago the Undernet IRC network had announced that because of continuing DoSes and abuses from Israeli users, it would refuse any connections from Israel.
This steered quite a bit of media attention (for, like a day or so). Some KewL DudEZ kiddies were asked for a reply. At least two of them swore revenge on the network for their defacement of Israel, saying they're retaliate by attacking and DoS'ing them. In other words, they said something like "You're calling me violent, you f***ing ****!? I'll hit you until you take it back!".
My point? Script kiddiez never learn. Anyone who thinks taking down voluntary services is a viable option, will just find some way or another to roll the blame for shutting down the networks back onto the IRC. I can already imagine some of them DoS'ing the servers just as soon as they come back online in some sort of perverted revenge.
True, but they could still use a different network as just something to pass the time. in a way, that could make it worse, because then they might feel compelled to start waging war in this new territory. hmmm... I wonder if this could be a large and complex plot by IRCNet to transfer these "problem children" to the other major networks...
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"Rock over London... Rock on Chicago..." -Wesley Willis
weklrjt
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"Rock over London... Rock on Chicago..." -Wesley Willis
Upon reading this, the first thing that came to my mind was "publicity stunt".
Is it so farfetched that this was a planned maneuver by the staff of IRCNet and they already know it won't accomplish a damned thing? Now they'll be able to say "IRCNet: The network that cares." or some other silly shit.
I'm sorry but I'm left with the impression that this is just a lameass ploy to try and increase their userbase in the long run.
Moderate this to Flamebait if you like but I know quite a few Admins/Opers from another IRC network and I certainly wouldn't put this sort of thing past them.
It's pretty staight forward guy. Most script kiddies are junkies who spend way too much time on IRC. Deny them that and maybe you'll send a message to them. Although more likely you'll piss them off and they'll start trying to crack you. Let's all just point and laugh when the plan backfires on them.
"You end up talking to yourself a lot, which gets terribly boring because half the time you know what you're going to sa
As soon as the servers come back online, I'm gonna be a channel op on #sex. Ha!
--
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Seriously IRC, and chat in general, is one of the most antisocial and pathological activities there is. I have seen people's lives ruined because of addiction to chat.
Perhaps IRC should be turned off everywhere, permanently!
--- Speaking only for myself,
All too many times I've seen posts ranting about "the Feds" with no understanding or conception about US policymaking or the political system. Too many people cry "get the Feds out" without understanding the meaning of Locke's Social Contract.
I am glad to see that you are involved in the process, I am too. That is what makes democracy great.
This is another view of the world.
And how is this going to help????
I think the ircops are aiming more for the 1rc-kl4nz with huge bot/flood-nets. Your typical script kiddie doesn't do much harm on irc (he's dossing clients, not servers), its mostly the clans that do the damage (they dos the servers to generate netsplits).
For these clans, it will be a real pain to move their 300+ bots to an other irc net, just for one day. Without their botnets, they are not likely to do massive takeovers, especially on other irc networks as they will challenge clans over there (of unknown sk1llz level) to come and have a fight on their home turf.
-><-
Grand Reverence Zan Zu, AB, DD, KSC
There is a solution to DDoS, but it has a huge problem: you have to do it on the network(s) from which the malicious packets are being sent. You can't do much about it on the receiving side, the packets are going to flood your lines to/from the Internet before they reach your firewall/router. DDoS is going to be around until every admin on the Internet plugs his network holes and until every user on the Internet secures his machines.
I bet you the ircops have sent a zillion emails to the admins of the offending networks, but what more can they do? Sue the hell out of them and disable large parts of the Internet in the process? Hmm... doesn't sound to good, lets try to make the general public aware of the situation. They tried to do just that by putting info on the situation on their webservers, in their /motd's and you have what. Guess what? It didn't work. So now they are going to do the one thing they can do to get the attention of the public.
Sure this is a big disappointment to all the "well behaved" irc users, but if it is the only way of making them aware of the situation, let them do it. (And all of a sudden, everyone is indeed aware of the situation, and all up in arms...)
-><-
Grand Reverence Zan Zu, AB, DD, KSC
12 noon GMT+200 == 5 am EST (GMT-0500) == 2 am PST (GMT-0800).
Well, the kids who do this like to see service disrupted. Isn't this doing the job for them? They might even continue attacks so they get more people to protest by shutting down.
Ohh come on What do they will get ?
IRC is really boring and full of carp. I think they should shut it down for good. It's mainly full of l@m3rZ who t@1K l1k3 th@t.
1st) these kiddies, launching DOS attackt against IRC-Servers are not crackers most of them are only script- or bot- warriors, they to dumb to reveal the real use of the net, communication, not warfare.
2nd) some of them don't know, that these activitys are counted as Attacks, only 'play with the new toys'
3rd) there are three different outcomes of this event:
a) the attackers don't use the IRC-network, and are dumb enough to don't fear the rage of the users, then it is futile to shut down.
b) the attackers hit the target and will buzz off.
c) the attackers have an 'light' moment and give up these attacks.
we will see.
-------------------------
-------------------------
Who is General Protection Fault, and what he does in my Computer ?
Just explain to us how you would avoid being DDoS'd ? My server has been attacked 2 times now and all I could do was to wait until the packetting stopped while tracing the attacks.
Just remember that many IRC servers including mine run on a public school's machine on a connection that is merely lended. When all the network gets hit because of kiddies attacking the irc server I have to justify the usefullness of my server to keep it running and it's NOT EASY !!
Besides, we restricted connections on the server and allowed local users only and we still get DDoS'd ! It is absolutely pointless yet kiddies continue.
And to mention it there are hundreds of trojans who are trying to connect to the server, consuming bandwith for nothing.
Nidhogg, IrcOp & admin on irc.emn.fr
Q: Why is President Clinton so reluctant to decide the fate of Elian Gonzalez? A: Because last time he made a decision about where to put a Cuban he was impeached.
I'm a non-tenured professor in a public institution. If it were used for a complaint, the context wouldn't matter, just the word. And "stop these stupid proceedings or the white, middle-clas male resigns" just doesn't have the same affect on the angry mob . . .
Do I like the situation? No. But my kids like to eat, so I'll leave the battle to those with tenure. (yes, this is why tenure exists; it's not really [supposed to be] about job security in general).
--
-- Slashdot sucks.
Its beyond my understanding why such nuts exist. What kind of person in what delusional fantasyland would take down networks of communication? Are they so sick that they must pick fights and get revenge by causing harm? Or is this just a proof of concept cracking game? To see how other people will react to damage? Are these the same kinds of people who swing cats by the tail?
heh - I remember when IRC was quite new and run of a single network, used to be quite fun, writing bots and scripts to keep a channel up and running as netsplits across the atlantic sent in wave after wave of script kiddies after #england.
:)
Dunno why they wanted #England so badly!
I rememebr we ended up taking over their own meeting channels for a couple of weeks in revenge
Those were the days.
DDoS has always been part of the IRC and is going to stay that way - you can limit it by not allowing bots etc on your servers but people will always have scripts and there will always be script kiddies
troc
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
I have to read the Wall Street Journal for one of my classes & I read an article a while ago about the feds tracing the person that did the Yahoo! attack (Supposedly the rest were copycat crimes). They're claiming that it was all planned on IRC, and they even have some nicks that they believe are the people that did it. So, with all the lawsuits going on, they might be shutting their doors so they can say that they are doing what they can to help prevent this type of thing. Since there are IRC cops, and such things, it is somewhat possible that somebody knew what was going to happen (or could have, had they parsed logs looking for it). I dunno, I'm just rambling out loud, but at least they won't get sued.
The legions of script kiddies out there will see what a grand thing they have done, making IRCnet admins mad enough to take down the service for some period of time. Following this logically, if they DoS again, and even harder, IRCnet is likely to lock out again, and maybe for longer.
Analogy: when you were beat up by the school bully in grade school, protesting by not coming to class for a week would be a sure way to get beat up even more when you come back.
This is only going to hurt legitimate irc users who have nothing to do with the attacks. Script kiddies will just beat them down until they submit, then go find another target.
*sigh* You think they would be a little smarter about this.
This sig is false.
This is a bit like schoolteachers punishing an entire class in response to the actions of a few. This may be annoying, but it tends to be effective -- it tends to create peer pressure against the perpetrators to behave themselves. Since the script kiddies running these DoS attacks are impacting the service for everyone, this is probably a good thing. Maybe they should do this more often?
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
taking away IRC from them for a day will provide the same effect of denying a cocaine user drugs for a day
Here's a thought - find somebody who uses crack cocaine and tell them you are going to stand there and keep them from using it. Not something I'd want to try...
your web browser should be configurable to use your text editor for textfields
How do I do that? AFAIK, neither Netscape, Exploder, kfm, Konqueror or Opera do this. I don't know if NS6 does or not, but there's no way I'm going to use that bloated pre-alpha crap they released yesterday. If there is a way, let me know.
Okay, Lynx probably can. But I'm guessing that with the pics and icons and layout, that Slashdot wasn't meant to be used with Lynx.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Blah, you have no imagination. All you need is a can of white paint to paint some strategically placed arrows on the surface. The difference isn't the potential, the difference is the real damage done.
-- Abigail
The point is that by protesting a wrong we are trying to focus attention on the matter and show the general public that informed, rational computer hackers abhor such activity.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
wookin' pa nub in all the wrong pwaces
Well, I can well understand the strike. I have heard about this before in a story about the nubmer of EFNET hosts shrinking. Its pretty lame to take down these servers.
... our skript kiddies need somewhere to hone their 1337 skillz, so lets setup a few sites where they can practice, maybe even run a competition if it is feasible. Not that I am volunteering, but someone or some organisation somewhere may have the resources, and even profit from the exercise in a 'know your enemy' kind of way.
But
Here's hoping some form of sanity prevails.
Hmm, without IRC servers being up, nobody will be able to idle for years at a time(read: no conversations) or have 2000 bots on a single channel for no reason. I'd say go through with it. Maybe people will go outside and fly a kite, or hang out with their friends in meatspace.
Just a moment's thought reveals that "Denial of Service" attacks, currently, mean absolutely zero.
Today, the internet is a non-critical entity. Denying service to any of the 99% of the servers in existance is akin to covering your nearest freeway billboard with a bedsheet. The only harm caused is a momentary pause in the flow of cash toward the increasingly larger internet corporations.
Before you bark at me, realize that you have two options: suffer through and learn from DOS attacks today when the stakes are infinitely low, or find yourselves at the mercy of a ruthless sabateur when the internet actually provides some crucial, important, life-critical service.
Because, if all the script kids stopped today as a result of this protest, the DOS attack methods would still exist... and maybe we would be foolish enough to actually permit something like, oh, Social Security or a Presidential Election, or everybody's oxygen machine to get wired up to the internet, and lo and behold someone whips out a DDOS attack from their archives. You get my drift.
Continuing to demonstrate the youth of this system only provides the world a service at a tiny, tiny cost compared to what havoc might occur if we closed our eyes to the reality of the internet's maturity.
So what if Aunt June can't get to EBAY to bid on another beanie baby or little Timmy can't look up Jennifer Lopez *one *more *time on Yahoo, or whizzbang.com loses 4 hours of ad revenue. As long as my decendants don't become extinct as a result of an insecure internet, it's a small price to pay.
If the worst thing that happens today is that an IRC server is inaccessible, well praise the lord.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
Folks who start DDoS and other script-based attacks are, for the most part, immature little jerks who are so incompetent in every other part of their lives that they have to do sociopathic things in order to feel powerful. If they didn't have IRC to DDoS, they'd probably be out smoking cigarettes to show Mom who's boss, or writing "SUX" on bathroom stalls. They're probably cruel to littler kids, so they can feel like they're bigger and tougher than somebody. They hate their mothers, but they secretly wish they could fuck them, so they break into web sites and vandalize them with the particularly telling message that they "own" them now. They try to "own" cnn.com, but what they really want to own is Mom. The slang they use to talk to each other is full of sublimated expressions like "rule" and "own" and "bitchslap" and "you're my bitch now," and, of course, "muthafucka."
They don't have their own personalities, so the only form of self-expression they can come up with is to find the things that are better than them--that make them feel as little and irrelevant as they actually are--and destroy them.
The IRCNet gesture is intended to polarize us, not to convince script kiddies they're getting on our nerves. On our nerves is where they want to be.
--
This is not my sandwich.
The people DDoS'ing the servers aren't the same people who just like to go on and chat, they're a rather particular plague of idiot.
Its a nice gesture, but I can't see how it will really make much of a difference... as much as I hate lawsuits, a better solution is to try and find the people behind these attacks, and sue them for all the wasted network resources caused by their attacks. Sure, that won't stop new attackers, but it will at least help them with some money to buy extra bandwidth to deal with it.
Of course, a real solution to dealing with these idiots would be nice, but we can't just throw them off the net forever, and we can't shoot them. So just what do we do?
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
A majority of IRCOps (IRC Operators, people with the "O-line") have the worst personality in the world. The only time they speak to anyone outside of their close friendly circle is to correct someone or laugh at someone. They have no tolerance for screwing around (even if it doesn't hurt anyone) and use their forces, usually G-lines (AKA Global Bans/Global K-Line), excessively.
Many of the users on IRC are people who, somewhat like the IRCOps, have some technical skill, and are usually fairly young. They like to get drunk, high, and they like to screw around. When conflicts happen, usually IRCOps are completely unforgiving and rather rude.
This provokes alot of the Denial of Service attacks.
IRC Networks for a long time now have been ignoring security (It took them sooo long to get any preventative measures) and they just blame the user who attacks them, which may provoke more attacks, usually doing nothing.
I've never been on IRCNet, but I've been on IRC (Starting with EFNet) for about 7 years. I've run several small networks of my own. What I said here may not apply to IRCNet, but it sure does apply to all of the IRC Networks I've been on.
Now, if my message is moderated up, the IRCOps I've offended will flame, point out any little errors I made in this e-mail, etc. For saying things along these lines before, I've been G-Lined and tons more (including Undernet Ops e-mailing my boss in hopes of them firing me, hah).
is perpetrated by the service provider. In the grand old tradition of the McNemara era ("We had to burn the village in order to save it."), they're going nuts.
I'm not familiar with the problem, since I never use those networks. Still, I find it hard to imagine that one more DoS will improve things. I guess this is a sign of desparation, rather than a reasoned response? If someone who is responsible for this decision reads this column, I hope you'll enlighten us.
See what I've been reading.
The way I see it this is hardly going to affect anything. Your typical "script kiddie" is gonna try to get onto ircnet, fail and just go over to efnet for the day without even noticing. I see the people that commit these sort of acts as some sort of modern day vandals, except instead of spray-painting bridges, they are bringing down servers. Sure it's immature but then they're kids, bored and looking for some sort of recognition. Being able to say "I brought down " is one way of getting that. Some of them will grow out of it. Some wont and will probably end up in jail but you'll never really be able to stop it happening.
Phear my l33t homepage.
S. 2092 is a senate bill allowing the govt to expand it's prying capability to bypass current wiretap laws by allowing the fbi to put trojans on your workstation to facilitate the tracking of would be 31337 haxors and the like, all in a supposed effort to combat DoS attacks and such. Problem is, they don't siscriminate between the bad guys and everyone else.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
Grtz, Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Don't forget a lot of the IRC servers which join in this strike are run by ISP's who also supply services. When the DDoS are making it more difficult to provide those services, as they say, I can't blame them for taking them down.
Oh, and for the person who posted "we're on the wrong track" - please note that 'the internet' is international, and that the US constitution is not.
Inez{R}
taking away IRC from them for a day will provide the same effect of denying a cocaine user drugs for a day. It would, but IRCnet isn't taking IRC away from them, it's just taking IRCnet away from them. The script kiddies will just take their crap elsewhere for a day, and then probably come back in greater numbers. Does IRCnet gain anything? Nope.
I really don't understand what this will prove to anyone. Do these sysadmins think that by taking away IRC, these guys won't be able to plan their next strike?
Hey, let's show the commies in Cuba and China how much we don't like thier policies-- by copying them here in the USA!
Like most (all?) protests, this is all fluff and no substance. By taking some action, no matter how silly, these guys make themselves feel better about the situation. A better course of action would be to work out a solution to prevent DDoS attacks from succeeding.
We think ALAR on apples is dangerous for kids, so we're going to protest its use by spraying it on all other fruit crops too!
I'm not condoning DDoS attacks, however this sounds like: "If you're not going to play fair then I'm taking my toys and going home."
They need to figure out how to avoid/stop the attacks. Shutting down just calls attention to the problem.
The following statement is true. The preceding statement is false.
These splits are just so annoying when you're on IRC
Perhaps we should start punishing crimes not only based on the intent, but the cumulative frustration, annoyance and grief it causes.
These kids could qualify for the death penalty, and I know of plenty of people who would (unjokingly) gladly pay for a few minutes alone with these kids in an alley somewhere.
Wasn't there an article a while back about someone that actually did that? Tracked one of these packet kiddies down and assaulted him? I think they got caught though..
Key concept: When companies (or whomever) are crippled by vandals abusing or crippling their sites (a situation that is somewhat exacerbated by the far-flung but inter-related nature of the Internet), do you think that the Federal government is not going to notice? Especially when these vandals hit noticeable sites that should CONCIEVEABLY have had some sort of security. I know that most people with inkling of routing protocol would respond that the sites should have filtered their packets, that they deserved what they got etc. etc. etc.
The issue truly at hand is wether or not the freedom of the Internet jeopardizes the freedom to USE the Internet. When that freedom to use is threatened by the abuses of a few miscreants, doesn't the government (policy makers, politicians, even the DOJ) have a duty to step in? Does the freedom of the Internet surpass the freedom to use it?
I agree that most politicians have no real grasp of technological issues. It seems that most are crafting their views depending on how the winds blow or on what Tom Brokaw hyperventilated about at 6.30pm or on what their tech advisor is telling them at the moment. Or, even worse, they regurgitate the party line when it comes to something like Internet taxes.
Whenever someone moans about "the Feds", I have to ask what the hell are YOU (yes, you) doing about it? Are you expecting someone else to step in and solve these problems? I hate to say this, but since there is a notable absence of the technologically savvy on Capitol Hill, others are stepping into the vacuum (corporate interests, politicos, etc.) and are driving tech policy.
As for the instance of the IRC operators, I can certainly sympathize with them and perhaps this might serve as a wake up call for the abusers.
This is another view of the world.
Starving Children Around the World Go On Hunger Strike
US Government Randomly Kills Citizens in Order To Protest Terrorism
Environmentalist Group Burns Forest, says one member, "We're sorry it had to come to this"
Department of Treasury Stops Printing Money in an Effort to Reduce National Debt.
Man Refuses to Clean Up Doggie Mess in Hall in Effort to "...teach Oscar what it's like to live in filth"
Housewife Stops Watering Plants, says, "Maybe This Way They'll Decide To Produce More Oxygen"
On the other hand, I'm not so sure that IRCnet has thoroughly thought this out. To echo the concerns of many other posters: isn't protesting DoS (Denial of Service, for the uninitiated) attacks by shutting down your service rather... counterproductive?
Aside from the confusing nature of the protest, IRCnet must realize that they risk annoying, perhaps even angering, a lot of thier users. Especially at risk: users who aren't aware of DDoS or the protest, and the script kiddies who perpetrate these kinds of attacks. I'm worried that this action may be inviting attacks and possible disaster on the IRCnet network.
Maybe a better way to do this would be to run a campaign like the yearly Anti-spam campaign, which asks web site operators to turn thier sites pink, and explain the protest. Things like that seem to have a greater effect than outages.
Well, in any case, I wish the folks of IRCnet the best of luck.
--
: remove whitespace to e-mail me
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
As I understand it, to protest the script kiddies' use of DDoS, the site admins are going to deny service themselves? Sounds kinda like chopping off your ear to protest someone chopping off your other ear.
Christopher A. Bohn
cb
Oooh! What does this button do!?
The people who are DoS'ing the servers aren't going to be deterred by the servers rejecting connections; if anything it will strengthen their resolve to continue to cause chaos amongst IRCnet as a whole.
Although I have little experience with IRCnet, I can relate with my times on EFnet and Undernet, where groups of kiddies are all to willing to fire up their TFN's and take out a hub or two, causing splits across the whole networks. These splits are just so annoying when you're on IRC, and I agree that anything that can be done to prevent the DoS should be done. While I reckon this stance is a good idea to draw attention to the cause, I can't see that it's going to help prevent the DoS in any way whatsoever.
IRC servers are such easy targets.... with such noticable effects in the form of splits - almost enough to make a script kiddie climax in fact. EFnet has started to employ ways to make it harder - hiding IP's from C: and N: lines, but anyone with a bit of knowledge or skill can find these out.
Maybe it's time to accept that IRC is a medium which will always be plagued by these lamers who get kicks from causing havoc. I doubt it will stop, there are just SO many, and the only way to prevent this sort of thing happening, IMHO, is to either employ high level firewalling techniques, or get to the root of who is causing the problems.
Not sure either is particularly feasible.
steve
It seems to me that this is only going to hurt the legitimate users of IRCnet, and not the script kiddies (or retarded little shits, as I prefer to call them :) I mean, Joe Average, IRC user, probably isn't going to care about DOS attacks to the point that he/she wants to be without IRC for several hours, and the script kiddies are just going to go to another retarded channel on efnet or Undernet or wherever and continue to talk about the "time I brought down Wired" or something similarly stupid.
Recall the scene where the village is about to lynch the black sheriff? He puts his gun to his own head, and hollers, "Freez, or the *** gets it!"
And the townsman back off, because he has a hostage . . .
I was wondering for some time whether Slashdot should try an approach like this against the trollers - but I found myself coming to the conclusion that it would not be effective and would only hurt Slashdot itself.
Think about it - it would only let the trollers know that they had won!
I guess the intended effect of such a strike is to raise consciousness amongst those affected of the effects of their actions. Ask yourself - how many script kiddies / trollers are really gonna care about the effect of their actions?
I'm left wondering - where would the trollers go if Slashdot closed it's doors??
Hmmmm...
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
A little planning goes a long way...
It's a good thing this isn't implemented (widely) in the "real world" (sarcasm mode on):
Sigh. Life sucks and is unfair whenever it would be inconvenient for people (and esp. bureaucracies) to do the "right thing". I know that this episode is just a minor inconvenience (the idea of doing anything important on IRC vanished for me around 1992) but it definitely illustrates the addage "cutting one's nose off to spite one's face".
How does this combat DoS attacts by script kiddies? It doesn't. And we're on the wrong track.
Americans are exercising their unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of capital gains. But what happens when liberty jeopardizes life -- or the Dow Jones average? And what happens when the government jeopardizes liberty?
On Tuesday, Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., convened the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism and Government Information to make the case for new legislation to protect the nation's ``information infrastructure.'' And so began a familiar Washington ritual: Friendly lawmaker invites friendly bureaucrat to a hearing. Soon, a new law emerges that gives political credit to the lawmaker and a bigger budget to the bureaucrat. Kyl began the show with a declaration that ``denial of service'' hacker attacks on companies such as eBay, Yahoo and CNN should ``serve as a wake-up call about the need to protect our critical computer networks. the attacks contributed to a 258-point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average and halted a string of three days of consecutive record- high closes of the technology-laden Nasdaq Composite Index.''
To deal with this problem, Kyl and Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., have co-sponsored S. 2092, which would modify the federal government's ``trap and trace'' authority, so that law enforcers would no longer need to obtain a search warrant in every jurisdiction through which a cyber- attack traveled. This just makes matters worse, the more we promote the "We must do something about those evil script kiddies" by staging stupid stunts like this blackout, it gives the govenment the green light to come on in, write bad policy and pay for the execution of this bad policy with our tax dollars.
The first ``witness'' was FBI Director Louis Freeh. After praising Kyl and his legislation, he reminded his audience of how much the FBI was already doing to combat the scourge of cyber-crime. Freeh then used the forum to outline the FBI's entire cyber-agenda, covering everyone from virus-writers and intellectual property thieves to the ``Internet Black Tigers,'' a group ``reportedly affiliated with the Tamil Tigers'' of Sri Lanka. He further noted that unchecked Net-related stock fraud costs investors $1 million an hour. IMM an hour? Sources say? BS. We're giving the feds all the confusion they need.
We need to get constructive folks, and not continue to feed the machine.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
wether or not the freedom of the Internet jeopardizes the freedom to USE the Internet "
Very eloquent and accurate.
On the other hand, your flame was rather insulting,
Whenever someone moans about "the Feds", I have to ask what the hell are YOU (yes, you) doing about it? Are you expecting someone else to step in and solve these problems?
Who the hell am I? Well for starters I'm an over 40 PHB who lives in the US and has been on the net since the old days, pre 1980. My entire career for the last 20+ years has been the internet, starting long before GUIs.
What the hell am I doing about it? Plenty, you should be as well. All of us should, not just because it's our livelyhood, because it's our privacy and our basic freedoms as well. Personally, I have regular dialog with many elected officials on many different levels. I'm no stranger to the telecom lobbists or in my Representetive or Senators offices on capital hill and my state capital. I support the Electronic Frontier Foundation , Global Internet Liberty Campaign (GILC), Internet Free Expression Alliance (IFEA), Digital Future Coalition (DFC), and the TRUSTe Privacy Policy Certification Program as well as several others both monetarily and with my time. Do you?
Am I expecting someone else to step in and solve these problems? No, I am involved, are you?
Although you had a good point in your post, I feel the impact of it got lost in the flames, instead of flaming posters on /., try using some of that effort to get the laws and the policy changed, you might be surprised at what one person can do.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
Some people think that this sounds stupid, but it is not. A lot of people fail to realize that almost all of the IRC servers out there are run on a voluantary basis, IRC is a privelage not a right. A lot of script kiddies are not up to no good, the flood, the trade their warez and porn, and chances are that they are addicts, taking away IRC from them for a day will provide the same effect of denying a cocaine user drugs for a day. I do not think it will stop the problem, but I do think it will make people realize how much they value IRC, people fail to value things till it gets taken away from them.
Pardon all my tpyos, incorrect grammars and speelings, Rob when is slashdot getting a spelling and grammar checker?
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
The solution: Reduce their incentive to. Widely distribute a daemon, pstormd, and a program, pstorm. When pstorm is run, it will connect to every copy of pstormd in existence, each of which will begin ping-flooding every host it knows of.
Result: Anyone anywhere will be able to effortlessly bring down the Internet without getting caught. After several months during which the net is totally useless, a general appreciation for the fact that the network is not a toy will develop. Every month or two, someone will run the program out of maliciousness, terrorism, or curiosity, but the appeal will gradually dwindle. ISPs who deny access to the program to their users will be publicly flogged for "presenting a challenge to the little bastards." AOL, after steadfastly refusing to include pstorm's trademark "don't push" button in their software, will be disconnected from the network entirely, to general approval. pstorm will eventually be ruled illegal, but no one will care.
The FBI will be sued by the FSF, and lose, because its attempts to block pstormd from functioning involve reverse-engineering its messages (3-byte UDP packets which read, "GO!"). Microsoft will write its own pstorm, which says "BO!", and imply that the non-MS version is unreliable and may be unsupported in the future.
Eventually, use of pstorm will be restricted by tradition to certain celebratory occasions, such as Kwanza. It will also be used to protest particularly clueless decisions by judges and elected officials about The Way The Network Should Work, to remind them and everyone else how much say they have in the matter.