As you'll note in a post elsewhere in this thread, I pointed out that Apple said 11 months ago that there were three main DRM'd methods for three main vendors - Apple, Sony, and Microsoft.
Sony had the chance to sell music on a superior player with a superior marketing channel and failed to build either of the two. Apple's player and channel gained greater mindshare and marketshare because they were superior.
So, please, no "poor Sony" remarks. If Sony wants to sell music their strategy should be to provide superior music, with superior encoding, at prices fair to the market. But no crocodile tears because Sony is limited to what Apple supports if they want to operate on Apple players (iPods). Apple embraced many record companies, Sony their own alone.
I'm not embracing any part of Sony being the victim here.
Let's face it - how many of us rely on the iTMS? I'd bet not many. The problem isn't that Apple is too powerful, it's that Sony was pathetically weak in each and every facet of this market.
My turn to engage in seering - Sony sees X revenue from Y sales at iTMS, decides if they increase unit price, they'll make more money (for some here, "stop losing money") - so if we double unit revenue, then Sony would see 2X revenue from Y sales.
The demand curve is dictated by price, product, promotion and the marketing avenue - those are textbook givens. Demand will not stay constant by increasing the first weighted factor - price, nor will revenue logically increase by going to a less preferred product (iPod) and having to relaunch a marketing avenue (Sony direct sales vs. iTMS) when that marketing avenue has egg all over its face.
The industry hasn't lost the chance to dictate future direction of media by any means. But I remind you that the iPod came first, embracing popular formats of the day, iTMS came later.
I find the Sirius TV ads specious at best, but on face value, there's a vendor trying to offer an alternative package to the iPod that at least makes sense for a business model.
And maybe that makes my point more clearly - business is like a long-distance race. You don't win it by looking at the field of runners, you win it by visualizing yourself 2 paces in front of you, and trying to catch THAT bastard.
Sony is suffering revenue because of Apple's power. Apple has power because they have a sensible business plan backed up by solid products. Sony lacks a sensible business plan and matching solid products, so they have no power. it's not Apple's fault that their eating Sony's lunch - if your argument were in any correct, which I still maintain that it's not - it's more of a wonder that Apple is the only one in the business with a freaking brain acting like business school mattered.
So, by substitution, you're suggesting that the way I was supposed to read that sentence was:
Sony feels it can't make money selling downloads, for example with any other DRMed file format, that don't work on an iPod, and Apple has said that they need to either use no DRM, or give Apple a big check to use Apple's DRM. Otherwise no-iPods.
Record companies distribute to iTMS as well as consumers, online, with a viable profit model?
You're repeating the argument, as I see it - iTMS is limiting price, that how the record companies' online music stores are hurt (heck, even drop the online part, if you want to).
That whole argument requires revisionist history, and I'm not having any part of it. Name one such distribution outlet that was successful before iTMS - there was nonesuch from any record company, period.
So the whole argument comes down to, "Apple, using reality, is limiting the income for record companies in a fantasy-reality."
Properly understood, my friend, projections do not sales make. Period.
The record companies got it wrong before iTMS, they've gotten it wrong during iTMS, and any arguments that they're only prevented from getting it right in a post-iTMS world - where we remove that nasty, underpriced Apple hegemony - are downright hilarious.
I repeat - Apple keeping prices down - on a breakthrough method with a breakthrough product that expanded the market insanely - doesn't equate to Apple's fault that record companies are losing money.
I am enjoying the arguments, including an earlier accusation that I'm the one engaging in hypotheticals - but the arguments against what I'm saying are hyperbole, at the kindest.
I'm pretty sure PenguinPPC wasn't part of it. You'll note I'd already referred to MkLinux. It's possible that what I'm referring to was folded into that project or a part of it, but I won't stand by that. I will stand by this - two projects, internal to Apple, Unix-based, with or without modified kernels (ie, kernel not matching distro), pre-Darwin and dead for a year before Darwin statup, considered due to Linux excitement by Apple mgmt, both ultimately rejected, internally. Did other things like those mentioned live on as a result? Those guys aren't attributing themselves that way, so if that's happened, it may be lost in the fossil record.
I'm actively restoring 8 year old backups of correspondence to find that info, now.
The first question was NOT of the yes/no type. The other questions were rhetorical to illustrate the point. I disagree that Apple has a monopoly position, they have a hegemony - your point makes more sense with that substitution.
You've made my point for me if we allow that substitution, but under that condition I would add that what Sony sees and what reality is, are two entirely different things.
You introduced cascaded sampling error, so the method was inaccurate to determine anything other than how (digital music -> undersampled -> higher sampled) fared under your particular conditions. Sorry.
Also, the bitrates for both AAC and MP3 increased since iTunes first went online, isn't that so?
An interesting artifact from the fossil record
on
Sony BMG Dropping DRM
·
· Score: 5, Informative
From http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/
Apple, Microsoft and Sony all compete with proprietary systems. Music purchased from Microsoft's Zune store will only play on Zune players; music purchased from Sony's Connect store will only play on Sony's players; and music purchased from Apple's iTunes store will only play on iPods. This is the current state of affairs in the industry, and customers are being well served with a continuing stream of innovative products and a wide variety of choices. and also
Perhaps those unhappy with the current situation should redirect their energies towards persuading the music companies to sell their music DRM-free. For Europeans, two and a half of the big four music companies are located right in their backyard. The largest, Universal, is 100% owned by Vivendi, a French company. EMI is a British company, and Sony BMG is 50% owned by Bertelsmann, a German company. Convincing them to license their music to Apple and others DRM-free will create a truly interoperable music marketplace. Apple will embrace this wholeheartedly. That's from 11 months ago - so please, no sympathy for Sony's actions in this.
Hypotheticals? More like rhetoricals.
Sony feels it can't make money selling downloads that don't work on iPod... Like what? Ogg Vorbis? From http://www.apple.com/ipodclassic/specs.htmlAudio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, WAV, and AIFF I'd ask what you're talking about, but I don't think you know.
Sorry, but Apple keeping prices down - on a breakthrough distribution method with a breakthrough product that expanded the market insanely - doesn't equate to Apple's fault that record companies are losing money.
What do you suppose Sony's income would have been without Apple forcing them into a viable online marketing strategy in the first place?
What does it mean, Apple's become too powerful, so Sony needs another distribution channel? Is Apple driving the prices up? Is Apple restricting Sony to only sell DRM'd music? Is Apple incapable of supporting non-DRM formats? Does Apple not reach sufficiently worldwide.
Like a guy who's murdered his parents pleading mercy as an orphan - Sony pleading innocence over where they're at with ecommerce of their music.
I believe the Intel spokesguy - otherwise what was said is actionable and Intel isn't that stoopid.
Read it carefully and then imagine how you'd respond if one of your business partners asked you to limit support of other products you make or are involved in.
Common sense dictates you'd act the same as Intel - pull out.
I guess that what I took for granted as common knowledge is in fact a little-known historical footnote: between Mac OS and OS X, Apple did internal R&D to see if a Linux-based OS could work for them. I can recall at least two such shoot-outs, both falling by the wayside - but gave up googling for them. I can't promise my memory is right, but I think Wilfredo Sanchez was involved in one of these efforts.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if there was a way to track lost or stolen items - especially if they contained any sort of account information whatsoever.
You've identified what you're troubled by - Kindle's like the old internet appliances and what's wrong with that - and what you'd like to see. I want to comment only on the first part.
I disagree that ebook readers are bad because they cost only slightly less than computers but do so much less.
The Kindle, like the 16GB iPod touch, both go for $399 - but so does one incarnation of the ASUS eee PC via quick search on Amazon. I'd have to believe that the eeePC does WAY more than either of the other two, but no one's going to give up their iPod touch for an eeePC because of form factor, ease of use and convenience for the specific use intended.
I've been noticing what some users have posted about how much they love their Kindles, so by extension, I would no more imagine them giving up their Kindle than an iPod user would give up their favorite device.
While there's some merit in what you say, remember that the internet appliance - by gaining market feedback (even if negative) - shaped other products and services and now it's easier than ever to get an all-in-one *something* that mom&pop can use to get a simple job done.
The Kindle may very well have many flaws - vendor tie-in, software limitations, use limitations, strict targeting, high price - but those same factors haven't hindered the iPhone very much in the market (despite what many may dislike about the iPhone, its market acceptance and happy users are undeniable).
I'm hoping that the Kindle excitement will help guide suppliers to innovate further in this field.
Very old slashdotters will also recall this old ubiquitous joke - "In addition to our new software X doing A, B and C, naturally we were able to embed an ftp client in it as everybody needs one and you can't have too many ftp clients at your fingertips." Expecting an ebook reader to do too much more sounds like that to me.....
Way to go guys ! You saved $42 million but increased the chance of the entire $500 million project failing due to not enough preflight tests! Good choice there ! Nice one ! Give that man a cigar! Here's a money quote from one of the first sites I'd googled for the initial Hubble failure:
The initial failure of the Hubble Space Telescope is an example of problems caused by relying on computer simulations. In 1990, when the orbiting telescope sent its first photographs back to Earth, the images were unexpectedly fuzzy and out of focus. NASA determined that the problem was the result of a human error made years before the launch: the telescope's mirror had been ground into the wrong shape. The mirror, tested prior to launch like the telescope's other separate components, functioned properly on its own. However, the manufacturers did not actually test the mirror in conjunction with the other components. The manufacturers relied on computer simulations to determine that the separate components would work together. The simulation didn't take into account the possibility of a misshapen mirror.
Because of the Hubble problems, NASA learned "a great lesson" about "the merits of actually testing a system rather than depending upon theory and simulation," explains Doran Baker, founder and vice-president of Utah State University's Space Dynamics Laboratory. From - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3797/is_199810/ai_n8814801
That's just one slice, but not at all the whole story. I get too pissed off even thinking of the early Hubble days to grope further to substantiate, but NASA blew it on many, many levels of saving a buck and avoiding common-sense operational tests - and I say this as an ex-advisor for the Army and Air Force operational test communiities.
NASA learned their lesson, indeed! They say to never credit to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence - but the NASA corrolary to that is to never underestimate that a great crowd of incompetents can indeed conspire to hide their incompetency to the point of fostering even more of it.
And I've worked on joint Air Force / NASA projects, so no lectures please about how little I know or that I'm flamebaiting - I'm qualified to speak.
I'm always loyal enough to praise NASA after they get something right - but most of the time, I'm happy to grouse in the hopes of educating voting taxpayers. Today, people still don't essentially get that the shuttle was sold to Nixon by the NASA second-stringers - an outgroup - and he bought it because he was being looked down upon by the Kennedy-Johnson NASA crowd. Sorry - this stuff really chaffs my ass.
Dooood - many thanks. I'd not heard of Magnatune before - I am an immediate Trip Wamsley fan, listening as I type this.
Takes me back to when we'd go friends house to turn on to, or be turned on to, new music. Between sojourns, we used this thing called radio to hear new, better music.
My three kids all have kids now. Over the years, the tweens and teens brought maybe 5 CDs to my house - I was always ready to listen to anything - how do you think I found out about the Gorillaz?. But they came in droves to listen to my music collection. They didn't stop coming when they got older - they stopped coming by when they'd heard all they'd liked, and moved on to other oldsters. I asked them how they found out about new music and they got angry, having heard their parents' stories, such as I've related here and they'd felt their lives were lacking, relegated to the death of MTV.
Radio? I played some insanely old CDs I'd made as a kid of CJOM and the WABX Air Aces (Detroit/Windsor metro) and they didn't believe that radio used to be that way, either.
Internet radio? Still better than over-the-air - duh... - but still, not always fulfilling as a new album (and yes, I still insist that CDs are albums because they are).
I guess after this rant, I should at least try to be on-topic, so here goes: the phases of a business from birth to death seem to be conception, innovation, consolodation, litigation, and liquidation.
With deepest sarcasm, thanks RIAA - with deepest sincerity, thanks ProteusQ.
Your man page is incomplete. Grope is the GNU rope, which as your man page points out, gives you just enough of the results to let you hang yourself. I don't recall for sure, but I think it was developed to counter the rope ownership claims made by SCO.
Slashdot Mirror
As you'll note in a post elsewhere in this thread, I pointed out that Apple said 11 months ago that there were three main DRM'd methods for three main vendors - Apple, Sony, and Microsoft.
Sony had the chance to sell music on a superior player with a superior marketing channel and failed to build either of the two. Apple's player and channel gained greater mindshare and marketshare because they were superior.
So, please, no "poor Sony" remarks. If Sony wants to sell music their strategy should be to provide superior music, with superior encoding, at prices fair to the market. But no crocodile tears because Sony is limited to what Apple supports if they want to operate on Apple players (iPods). Apple embraced many record companies, Sony their own alone.
I'm not embracing any part of Sony being the victim here.
Let's face it - how many of us rely on the iTMS? I'd bet not many. The problem isn't that Apple is too powerful, it's that Sony was pathetically weak in each and every facet of this market.
My turn to engage in seering - Sony sees X revenue from Y sales at iTMS, decides if they increase unit price, they'll make more money (for some here, "stop losing money") - so if we double unit revenue, then Sony would see 2X revenue from Y sales.
The demand curve is dictated by price, product, promotion and the marketing avenue - those are textbook givens. Demand will not stay constant by increasing the first weighted factor - price, nor will revenue logically increase by going to a less preferred product (iPod) and having to relaunch a marketing avenue (Sony direct sales vs. iTMS) when that marketing avenue has egg all over its face.
The industry hasn't lost the chance to dictate future direction of media by any means. But I remind you that the iPod came first, embracing popular formats of the day, iTMS came later.
I find the Sirius TV ads specious at best, but on face value, there's a vendor trying to offer an alternative package to the iPod that at least makes sense for a business model.
And maybe that makes my point more clearly - business is like a long-distance race. You don't win it by looking at the field of runners, you win it by visualizing yourself 2 paces in front of you, and trying to catch THAT bastard.
Sony is suffering revenue because of Apple's power. Apple has power because they have a sensible business plan backed up by solid products. Sony lacks a sensible business plan and matching solid products, so they have no power. it's not Apple's fault that their eating Sony's lunch - if your argument were in any correct, which I still maintain that it's not - it's more of a wonder that Apple is the only one in the business with a freaking brain acting like business school mattered.
So, by substitution, you're suggesting that the way I was supposed to read that sentence was:
Sony feels it can't make money selling downloads, for example with any other DRMed file format, that don't work on an iPod, and Apple has said that they need to either use no DRM, or give Apple a big check to use Apple's DRM. Otherwise no-iPods.
K.
Record companies distribute to iTMS as well as consumers, online, with a viable profit model?
You're repeating the argument, as I see it - iTMS is limiting price, that how the record companies' online music stores are hurt (heck, even drop the online part, if you want to).
That whole argument requires revisionist history, and I'm not having any part of it. Name one such distribution outlet that was successful before iTMS - there was nonesuch from any record company, period.
So the whole argument comes down to, "Apple, using reality, is limiting the income for record companies in a fantasy-reality."
Properly understood, my friend, projections do not sales make. Period.
The record companies got it wrong before iTMS, they've gotten it wrong during iTMS, and any arguments that they're only prevented from getting it right in a post-iTMS world - where we remove that nasty, underpriced Apple hegemony - are downright hilarious.
I repeat - Apple keeping prices down - on a breakthrough method with a breakthrough product that expanded the market insanely - doesn't equate to Apple's fault that record companies are losing money.
I am enjoying the arguments, including an earlier accusation that I'm the one engaging in hypotheticals - but the arguments against what I'm saying are hyperbole, at the kindest.
I'm pretty sure PenguinPPC wasn't part of it. You'll note I'd already referred to MkLinux. It's possible that what I'm referring to was folded into that project or a part of it, but I won't stand by that. I will stand by this - two projects, internal to Apple, Unix-based, with or without modified kernels (ie, kernel not matching distro), pre-Darwin and dead for a year before Darwin statup, considered due to Linux excitement by Apple mgmt, both ultimately rejected, internally. Did other things like those mentioned live on as a result? Those guys aren't attributing themselves that way, so if that's happened, it may be lost in the fossil record.
I'm actively restoring 8 year old backups of correspondence to find that info, now.
Not a fable, not made-up. I have no doubt of recall on this. I'll redouble my efforts to grope/google for them.
It's bugging me, too, now.
The first question was NOT of the yes/no type. The other questions were rhetorical to illustrate the point. I disagree that Apple has a monopoly position, they have a hegemony - your point makes more sense with that substitution.
You've made my point for me if we allow that substitution, but under that condition I would add that what Sony sees and what reality is, are two entirely different things.
You introduced cascaded sampling error, so the method was inaccurate to determine anything other than how (digital music -> undersampled -> higher sampled) fared under your particular conditions. Sorry.
Also, the bitrates for both AAC and MP3 increased since iTunes first went online, isn't that so?
Yep - not a monopoly.
But it is a hegemony and that's Sony's bitch, because they want to be.
Sorry, but Apple keeping prices down - on a breakthrough distribution method with a breakthrough product that expanded the market insanely - doesn't equate to Apple's fault that record companies are losing money.
What do you suppose Sony's income would have been without Apple forcing them into a viable online marketing strategy in the first place?
What does it mean, Apple's become too powerful, so Sony needs another distribution channel? Is Apple driving the prices up? Is Apple restricting Sony to only sell DRM'd music? Is Apple incapable of supporting non-DRM formats? Does Apple not reach sufficiently worldwide.
Like a guy who's murdered his parents pleading mercy as an orphan - Sony pleading innocence over where they're at with ecommerce of their music.
I believe the Intel spokesguy - otherwise what was said is actionable and Intel isn't that stoopid.
Read it carefully and then imagine how you'd respond if one of your business partners asked you to limit support of other products you make or are involved in.
Common sense dictates you'd act the same as Intel - pull out.
I guess that what I took for granted as common knowledge is in fact a little-known historical footnote: between Mac OS and OS X, Apple did internal R&D to see if a Linux-based OS could work for them. I can recall at least two such shoot-outs, both falling by the wayside - but gave up googling for them. I can't promise my memory is right, but I think Wilfredo Sanchez was involved in one of these efforts.
The following links are somewhat related to my rant, but doesn't pretend to substantiate them - one is a shameless reminder that OS X lovers would have nothing, my opinion, were it not for Wilfredo's genius:
http://www.mklinux.org/info/aboutfr.html
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/02/12/2250215
Personally, I wouldn't mind if there was a way to track lost or stolen items - especially if they contained any sort of account information whatsoever.
You've identified what you're troubled by - Kindle's like the old internet appliances and what's wrong with that - and what you'd like to see. I want to comment only on the first part.
I disagree that ebook readers are bad because they cost only slightly less than computers but do so much less.
The Kindle, like the 16GB iPod touch, both go for $399 - but so does one incarnation of the ASUS eee PC via quick search on Amazon. I'd have to believe that the eeePC does WAY more than either of the other two, but no one's going to give up their iPod touch for an eeePC because of form factor, ease of use and convenience for the specific use intended.
I've been noticing what some users have posted about how much they love their Kindles, so by extension, I would no more imagine them giving up their Kindle than an iPod user would give up their favorite device.
While there's some merit in what you say, remember that the internet appliance - by gaining market feedback (even if negative) - shaped other products and services and now it's easier than ever to get an all-in-one *something* that mom&pop can use to get a simple job done.
The Kindle may very well have many flaws - vendor tie-in, software limitations, use limitations, strict targeting, high price - but those same factors haven't hindered the iPhone very much in the market (despite what many may dislike about the iPhone, its market acceptance and happy users are undeniable).
I'm hoping that the Kindle excitement will help guide suppliers to innovate further in this field.
Very old slashdotters will also recall this old ubiquitous joke - "In addition to our new software X doing A, B and C, naturally we were able to embed an ftp client in it as everybody needs one and you can't have too many ftp clients at your fingertips." Expecting an ebook reader to do too much more sounds like that to me.....
refutes this nicely: Reality is a collective hunch.
Because of the Hubble problems, NASA learned "a great lesson" about "the merits of actually testing a system rather than depending upon theory and simulation," explains Doran Baker, founder and vice-president of Utah State University's Space Dynamics Laboratory. From - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3797/is_199810/ai_n8814801
That's just one slice, but not at all the whole story. I get too pissed off even thinking of the early Hubble days to grope further to substantiate, but NASA blew it on many, many levels of saving a buck and avoiding common-sense operational tests - and I say this as an ex-advisor for the Army and Air Force operational test communiities.
NASA learned their lesson, indeed! They say to never credit to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence - but the NASA corrolary to that is to never underestimate that a great crowd of incompetents can indeed conspire to hide their incompetency to the point of fostering even more of it.
And I've worked on joint Air Force / NASA projects, so no lectures please about how little I know or that I'm flamebaiting - I'm qualified to speak.
I'm always loyal enough to praise NASA after they get something right - but most of the time, I'm happy to grouse in the hopes of educating voting taxpayers. Today, people still don't essentially get that the shuttle was sold to Nixon by the NASA second-stringers - an outgroup - and he bought it because he was being looked down upon by the Kennedy-Johnson NASA crowd. Sorry - this stuff really chaffs my ass.
Bonus! Thanks, dooood!
All Americans suck because they all associate with non-Slashdotters.
(instant karma's gonna get me, da da da da, de do, da da!)
insanely old CDs - I'm a dolt - in my mind I totally typed insanely old cassettes...
Dooood - many thanks. I'd not heard of Magnatune before - I am an immediate Trip Wamsley fan, listening as I type this.
Takes me back to when we'd go friends house to turn on to, or be turned on to, new music. Between sojourns, we used this thing called radio to hear new, better music.
My three kids all have kids now. Over the years, the tweens and teens brought maybe 5 CDs to my house - I was always ready to listen to anything - how do you think I found out about the Gorillaz?. But they came in droves to listen to my music collection. They didn't stop coming when they got older - they stopped coming by when they'd heard all they'd liked, and moved on to other oldsters. I asked them how they found out about new music and they got angry, having heard their parents' stories, such as I've related here and they'd felt their lives were lacking, relegated to the death of MTV.
Radio? I played some insanely old CDs I'd made as a kid of CJOM and the WABX Air Aces (Detroit/Windsor metro) and they didn't believe that radio used to be that way, either.
Internet radio? Still better than over-the-air - duh... - but still, not always fulfilling as a new album (and yes, I still insist that CDs are albums because they are).
I guess after this rant, I should at least try to be on-topic, so here goes: the phases of a business from birth to death seem to be conception, innovation, consolodation, litigation, and liquidation.
With deepest sarcasm, thanks RIAA - with deepest sincerity, thanks ProteusQ.
Guess all I can offer in return, for anyone who's interested in an old radio show, besign Firesign, is The Fourth Tower of Inverness -
http://www.zbs.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1
http://drakhan.com/4tower.html
http://www.zbs.org/catalog/about.php
And I'm still waiting.....
http://www.smartforumz.org/forums/showthread.php?t=485
Please know that emacs, like its users, represent the ultimate in refinement and integrated thinking.
Vi, like its users, is primitive - but nonetheless insanely effective.
(I'm vi.)
Your man page is incomplete. Grope is the GNU rope, which as your man page points out, gives you just enough of the results to let you hang yourself. I don't recall for sure, but I think it was developed to counter the rope ownership claims made by SCO.
Hope this helps!
(sorry should have previewed) - meant to say at the end, "... IF he's right, then she's...."