"put my personal income in the top 25%" of household incomes. Low crime, cheap and high quality education cities to. Voted some of the best in the nation for family living.
Pfffft. I was getting offered $80k/year starting wages fresh out of college when I graduated during that "recession", and in cities where that'd put my personal income in the top 25% all from $16k of college education. 30 years strait of 100% job placement after graduation from my college. What do I do? Programming. I had at least one offer to fly me out to Cali and put my in a hotel just for an interview on their dime.
If you're having a hard time finding a job as a "programmer", either you're not a programmer or you refuse to move, which I think is a valid reason. I like being near family.
Programming isn't hard. We've got 60 year old ladies at work with no post-highschool education or training and no computers at home, able to do SQL fairly decently. They can write queries good enough to get me useful information when they come to me. Better than some "programmers" I've seen. I swear, most people are functional idiots. If they haven't been "trained", they can't figure it out themselves.
Capitalism will never work because you can guarantee that anyone will value anything. Obviously the only way to guarantee anything is to force people into salve labor camps. So much superior.
Good ol' QuakeWorld, didn't need Kali anymore. Then came QuakeSpy. Ping 3 servers at a time, filter the list to servers under 300ms. Let it run for 10 minutes, don't use the internet.
If I have to hold their hand, I may was well do it myself, it would be faster and exactly what I want. The programmers on my team are generally very good at spotting issues before they happen or knowing something is wrong and discuss the context and what they feel may be off. A lot of our job is consulting and design. Not only do I need to make something work, I also need to understand the implications that come along with a given design, Constantly thinking of edge cases.
In general, if you can't keep up, then you're in my way. I'm not perfect myself and I go to others to ask them questions when I get stumped, but the one thing in common among all of us is we realize when something is wrong. We all seem to have a very good intuition. We can't say exactly what is wrong, but we know something is wrong, it's a gut feeling.
/agree I can't tell you how many times I've had a simple problem get complicated fast, and I don't mean feature creep. I just mean handling all of the cases that could happen given the desired requirements. I don't just handle the working cases, I handle all of the failure cases. Those things are pesky.
I was mostly replying to your "Not cheap but reasonable value to me given my needs and lifestyle.". Just because it's "reasonable" to you doesn't mean you're not getting your fair share. I am glad that you're at least content with your services, or at least sound to be.
I can work with people who recognize this in themselves. not everyone loves to program, but the most important thing is having team members I can rely on. You do your fun stuff at home, I do my fun stuff at work. I got someone at my work who doesn't really aspire to do anything more than he's told to do, but he's there when you need him. I just have to remind him not to burn himself out. I wouldn't say it to his face, but we do need people to do the boring work.
My favorite thing to do as a programmer is to make tools for people like him. I like to make his job less boring and less annoying. I want to automate as much work, and leave him with data to make better decisions with. Then he spends more time making informed decisions on what to do, which is more enjoyable.
Your examples are of top tier "rock stars". That's the same argument about programmers that we're having. There is "I made a program", and there is "I made a great program". The difference is in programming, there is a thing called technical debt. Average programmers create technical debt almost faster than I can fix it.
i'm just happy the primary people that I work with can understand what I'm talking about and can understand my vision and know when to ask me questions. But get some other programmers from other departments, and they don't ask questions. You ask them to do something, they make it work and nothing more. Pass in something unexpected and their code goes to shit. Brittle code with lots of undefined states. Pure crap.
They were born interested and mindful. I believe that intelligence is a bell curve, but interest is not. Anyone can be smart, but most people's personalities won't let them.
Yes and no. Yes, we shouldn't give up on them. No, someone getting an A on a programming assignment, but takes them 3 days, when I can finish the assignment in 1 hour, it not what I consider "getting it".
Making a program work is only 20% of the job. It's great they have a better understanding and appreciation for the work that goes into programming, but keep them away from me.
And if you're not born with this motivation? Unless you're saying people can be motivated at gun point to become great programmers. Self motivation to want to learn is a mental trait of a programmer. Everyone else will eventually be automated out of a job.
I think my problem is when I say "programmer", I mean someone who understands everything, full stack. what does the distribution curve look like when you limit it only to people who can design, build, maintain, and successfully secure a high performance datacenter all on their own, but only from the aspect of the computers, network, and programming, not datacenter layout, power planning, etc?
Of course your misrepresentation of the 10x rule isn't helping. The 10x rule is that the best developers are 10x as productive as the worst 10 developers. That's all it says. So you can replace them with 10 worse developers, that's the whole frickin' point of the 10x rule.
The 10x rule assumes you have a lower limit on your worst.. No matter how many people you throw at a problem, if they do not understand the problem, you won't get the job done. When it comes to programming, nearly all problems seem simple at first. A big part of my job is arguing with people to keep them from painting themselves in a corner. Feature creep happens, you need well defined designs and functionality. I want my code to not only break, I was it to break early, break loudly, and tell me exactly what the issue is. I spend more time designing my code to break than to work.
The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, says Edge, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned.
Then why do so many "programmers" not have these skills?
Programming isn't even one thing, though people talk about it as if it were; it requires all sorts of skills and coding is just a small part of that. Things like design, communication, writing, and debugging are needed.
The problem is that too many programmers don't realize that they don't have these skills and pretend that they do. They you get stuck with poor design or buggy code. Even worse is that many of these areas have massive overlap. You can't design a good program unless you know how to program and debug. You can't program a good program unless you understand the design. etc etc.
I guess what I'm getting at the programming is a poster child of "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts", by a huge amount. Each skill is a multiplier for all of the other skills. With so many overlapping skills, someone with all of the skills is suddenly magnitudes better than someone with slightly fewer skills.
I pay as much as you do, except I get a dedicated connection with sub 1ms pings, no cap, symmetrical, no-bundling required, non-intro price, no funny fees, bill hasn't changed in years, and I bet my jitter to nearly anywhere in the world is less than the ping you get to your first hop. You're getting ripped off.
It was a rhetorical question. I can blow through 150GB in a day, not even downloading. Someone on DSLReport is on Google Fiber and nearing 300TB/month. Don't ask, don't tell. Caps are stupid for most situations. Hell, I pay $90/m for a 100/100 dedicated uncapped connection will not have congestion, ISP does not oversubscribe. They don't even differentiate between business and residential because all residential customers have business quality Internet. All they sell is "Internet". You can purchase an SLA with all dedicated path-ways, that will cost you an arm and a leg, but if all you want is dedicated bandwidth and a connection that has 5 minutes of downtime every few months at 2am for regular maintenance, you can save yourself a lot of money.
never set up a Facebook account, twitter account, or Instagram account
How are you going to figure out an exciting new ways to integrate FB, Twitter, or Instagram if you don't even use it? Maybe some 18 y/o programmer will have the next great idea for his generation. What exciting new thing can you think of that the young generations will also think is fun and exciting? They don't just want programmers, they want people with ideas and inspiration. They want people who can get into the heads of the people they're targeting.
What they're getting after is can you relate to the demographic you're targeting. Anyone can develop a system, but it takes intuition to make a good system. In their case, a system that caters to the needs to "social internet" users.
Without hardware knowledge, you cannot have an expectation of how much performance you should get out of certain specs. This is why you get people who thinking throwing more servers at a problem is a perfectly good bandaid.
My company recently got into this agile thing. My department wasn't hit because we're so special that it does not really apply to us, but we do need to interact with other departments. with my limited interactions, it overall seems like an improvement has been made. I have no idea if they're really doing agile or just certain aspects of it, but a win is a win.
To me it seems more like our company has applied agile to User Interface, which is a great fit, but I still question other department's ability to create infrastructure.
Slashdot Mirror
"put my personal income in the top 25%" of household incomes. Low crime, cheap and high quality education cities to. Voted some of the best in the nation for family living.
the worst financial crisis in 80 years struck
Pfffft. I was getting offered $80k/year starting wages fresh out of college when I graduated during that "recession", and in cities where that'd put my personal income in the top 25% all from $16k of college education. 30 years strait of 100% job placement after graduation from my college. What do I do? Programming. I had at least one offer to fly me out to Cali and put my in a hotel just for an interview on their dime.
If you're having a hard time finding a job as a "programmer", either you're not a programmer or you refuse to move, which I think is a valid reason. I like being near family.
Programming isn't hard. We've got 60 year old ladies at work with no post-highschool education or training and no computers at home, able to do SQL fairly decently. They can write queries good enough to get me useful information when they come to me. Better than some "programmers" I've seen. I swear, most people are functional idiots. If they haven't been "trained", they can't figure it out themselves.
Capitalism will never work because you can guarantee that anyone will value anything. Obviously the only way to guarantee anything is to force people into salve labor camps. So much superior.
Good ol' QuakeWorld, didn't need Kali anymore. Then came QuakeSpy. Ping 3 servers at a time, filter the list to servers under 300ms. Let it run for 10 minutes, don't use the internet.
If I have to hold their hand, I may was well do it myself, it would be faster and exactly what I want. The programmers on my team are generally very good at spotting issues before they happen or knowing something is wrong and discuss the context and what they feel may be off. A lot of our job is consulting and design. Not only do I need to make something work, I also need to understand the implications that come along with a given design, Constantly thinking of edge cases.
In general, if you can't keep up, then you're in my way. I'm not perfect myself and I go to others to ask them questions when I get stumped, but the one thing in common among all of us is we realize when something is wrong. We all seem to have a very good intuition. We can't say exactly what is wrong, but we know something is wrong, it's a gut feeling.
/agree I can't tell you how many times I've had a simple problem get complicated fast, and I don't mean feature creep. I just mean handling all of the cases that could happen given the desired requirements. I don't just handle the working cases, I handle all of the failure cases. Those things are pesky.
I was mostly replying to your "Not cheap but reasonable value to me given my needs and lifestyle.". Just because it's "reasonable" to you doesn't mean you're not getting your fair share. I am glad that you're at least content with your services, or at least sound to be.
That's near the max of 1Gb one direction, or 500Mb in both directions.
I can work with people who recognize this in themselves. not everyone loves to program, but the most important thing is having team members I can rely on. You do your fun stuff at home, I do my fun stuff at work. I got someone at my work who doesn't really aspire to do anything more than he's told to do, but he's there when you need him. I just have to remind him not to burn himself out. I wouldn't say it to his face, but we do need people to do the boring work.
My favorite thing to do as a programmer is to make tools for people like him. I like to make his job less boring and less annoying. I want to automate as much work, and leave him with data to make better decisions with. Then he spends more time making informed decisions on what to do, which is more enjoyable.
Your examples are of top tier "rock stars". That's the same argument about programmers that we're having. There is "I made a program", and there is "I made a great program". The difference is in programming, there is a thing called technical debt. Average programmers create technical debt almost faster than I can fix it.
i'm just happy the primary people that I work with can understand what I'm talking about and can understand my vision and know when to ask me questions. But get some other programmers from other departments, and they don't ask questions. You ask them to do something, they make it work and nothing more. Pass in something unexpected and their code goes to shit. Brittle code with lots of undefined states. Pure crap.
They were born interested and mindful. I believe that intelligence is a bell curve, but interest is not. Anyone can be smart, but most people's personalities won't let them.
Yes and no. Yes, we shouldn't give up on them. No, someone getting an A on a programming assignment, but takes them 3 days, when I can finish the assignment in 1 hour, it not what I consider "getting it".
Making a program work is only 20% of the job. It's great they have a better understanding and appreciation for the work that goes into programming, but keep them away from me.
Drawing talent was replaced with cameras or Photoshop filters. If you want art, you need to get to that 0.01% of the population.
determined by the time and motivation they put in
And if you're not born with this motivation? Unless you're saying people can be motivated at gun point to become great programmers. Self motivation to want to learn is a mental trait of a programmer. Everyone else will eventually be automated out of a job.
I think my problem is when I say "programmer", I mean someone who understands everything, full stack. what does the distribution curve look like when you limit it only to people who can design, build, maintain, and successfully secure a high performance datacenter all on their own, but only from the aspect of the computers, network, and programming, not datacenter layout, power planning, etc?
Of course your misrepresentation of the 10x rule isn't helping. The 10x rule is that the best developers are 10x as productive as the worst 10 developers. That's all it says. So you can replace them with 10 worse developers, that's the whole frickin' point of the 10x rule.
The 10x rule assumes you have a lower limit on your worst.. No matter how many people you throw at a problem, if they do not understand the problem, you won't get the job done. When it comes to programming, nearly all problems seem simple at first. A big part of my job is arguing with people to keep them from painting themselves in a corner. Feature creep happens, you need well defined designs and functionality. I want my code to not only break, I was it to break early, break loudly, and tell me exactly what the issue is. I spend more time designing my code to break than to work.
The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, says Edge, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned.
Then why do so many "programmers" not have these skills?
Programming isn't even one thing, though people talk about it as if it were; it requires all sorts of skills and coding is just a small part of that. Things like design, communication, writing, and debugging are needed.
The problem is that too many programmers don't realize that they don't have these skills and pretend that they do. They you get stuck with poor design or buggy code. Even worse is that many of these areas have massive overlap. You can't design a good program unless you know how to program and debug. You can't program a good program unless you understand the design. etc etc.
I guess what I'm getting at the programming is a poster child of "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts", by a huge amount. Each skill is a multiplier for all of the other skills. With so many overlapping skills, someone with all of the skills is suddenly magnitudes better than someone with slightly fewer skills.
I pay as much as you do, except I get a dedicated connection with sub 1ms pings, no cap, symmetrical, no-bundling required, non-intro price, no funny fees, bill hasn't changed in years, and I bet my jitter to nearly anywhere in the world is less than the ping you get to your first hop. You're getting ripped off.
It was a rhetorical question. I can blow through 150GB in a day, not even downloading. Someone on DSLReport is on Google Fiber and nearing 300TB/month. Don't ask, don't tell. Caps are stupid for most situations. Hell, I pay $90/m for a 100/100 dedicated uncapped connection will not have congestion, ISP does not oversubscribe. They don't even differentiate between business and residential because all residential customers have business quality Internet. All they sell is "Internet". You can purchase an SLA with all dedicated path-ways, that will cost you an arm and a leg, but if all you want is dedicated bandwidth and a connection that has 5 minutes of downtime every few months at 2am for regular maintenance, you can save yourself a lot of money.
never set up a Facebook account, twitter account, or Instagram account
How are you going to figure out an exciting new ways to integrate FB, Twitter, or Instagram if you don't even use it? Maybe some 18 y/o programmer will have the next great idea for his generation. What exciting new thing can you think of that the young generations will also think is fun and exciting? They don't just want programmers, they want people with ideas and inspiration. They want people who can get into the heads of the people they're targeting.
What they're getting after is can you relate to the demographic you're targeting. Anyone can develop a system, but it takes intuition to make a good system. In their case, a system that caters to the needs to "social internet" users.
Without hardware knowledge, you cannot have an expectation of how much performance you should get out of certain specs. This is why you get people who thinking throwing more servers at a problem is a perfectly good bandaid.
Supporting unencrypted is in itself a threat. It may not matter in all cases, but it matter enough that it's an overall win.
The main PFSense guy trusts one of the main new OpenSSL people, so PFSense is sticking with OpenSSL.
My company recently got into this agile thing. My department wasn't hit because we're so special that it does not really apply to us, but we do need to interact with other departments. with my limited interactions, it overall seems like an improvement has been made. I have no idea if they're really doing agile or just certain aspects of it, but a win is a win.
To me it seems more like our company has applied agile to User Interface, which is a great fit, but I still question other department's ability to create infrastructure.