.. that CentOS(or whatever) could actually hurt Red Hat sales?
I don't want to sound like a troll, but I am really thinking about entering the journalism turf. It seems like an easy job. No reality check, no knowledge of business logic. You just write and you get paid. At least that's what many of them do.
I mean has he ever wondered about why would someone pay a license for... anything? Maybe... support? Has he ever heard of Oracle? Or SAP? Does he even have a clue what platforms these software manufacturers support?
I know many said the same thing. But I am not arguing about the premise of the article, rather how come an article like that gets published and even worse, how come it's posted here.
The only competitor to Red Hat is Novell, period. Maybe Ubuntu will join in the future. In other words the sky is blue and water is still refreshing. So... where's my money?
In Windows you'd use WSUS, which in 3.0 uses an MMC console as well....
Well although you covered the updating stuff(which was a classic example), I didn't understand if it is possible to automate arbitrary stuff(like the other example I gave you).
Ahh, I see. Makes perfect sense. I thought there was a bridge to Crete...
Hahaha, no no no! We are definitely not known for our big constructions! The biggest(and only suspension) bridge we have is the one which connects main Greece with Evia(BTW that's where I'm from). It's not longer than 700 meters(do the conversion).
Movies are a favorite pasttime of mine. Any good Greek movies that use English (or at least have subtitles)?
Well one very good movie is "Z"(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065234/) by Costas Gavras. It is very old though(1970?) and has to do with some important political events that happened back then. I don't know if you can find it in US. One excellent movie that you CAN find is "Le Couperet"(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0422015/) made in 2005 by the same director. Costas Gavras now lives in France that's why it is in French(subtitled of course). 4 days ago I saw a big Greek -Spanish production about El Greco,a famous Greek painter(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0905329/). It is in both English and Greek. Actually they switch between English and Greek in arbitrary intervals. For me it was awful. Others found it interesting. I suppose you know about Zorbas the Greek?(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057831/). Made in Greece and starring Anthony Quinn. You have definitely heard this movie's theme song, guaranteed.
I wouldn't script on a server anyway; I'd write it locally first, then deploy it.....
Yeah, but if you just want to start a server, in ssh you do it in 2 seconds. Plus I have so many scripts that automate stuff. that with out an SSH server its impossible. For example I run a script from my PC that it sends commands at 10+ PC's simultaneously so that they all get their software updates. I don't even have to type any logins/passwords because I have transfered the necessary crypto keys to each and every machine. In the same way I gather statistics and info from my networks. Otherwise I 'd have to login with VNC/FreeNX on every machine and do it manually.
Hmm, I would think most Greeks have been to Crete.
Of course most of us have!!! But most of the Greeks have a parent that comes from there. I don't. Plus is a long way from Athens(6-9 hours with the ferry). But now, I've been to all over Greece.
Ya, well, please don't judge us by our TV; some of us actually do have brains!
Yeah, don't worry most of us know that. Although sometimes it creeps me out when I see people chanting/preaching about Jesus Christ etc , in documentaries.
Well they are both for running commands remotely; one is simply text based, the other GUI based
Yes but over an internet link, if you just want to script something or edit a file, GUI is an overkill. Let aside the fact that in servers(Unix/Linux) you mostly don't want to install an X server(for graphics) because apart from the memory overhead there is an extra layer prone to bugs and instability. Stupid thing is that for Oracle you need an X server JUST for the installation and then you can remove it.(I heard Windows server 2008 is going to give the option to not install the graphical part)
Although I admin I don't know if Oracle offers such services, I assume it does though
Just for fun go to the oracle site and take a look at their offerings. I am pretty sure you are going to find services that, take your kids to school, give you advice to score more women and other stuff. They have swallowed so many companies that their products don't make sense and at the very least, their integration is impossible.
Yes, my wife and I would love to vacation on Crete
This year I visited crete for the first time! Because of a contract with the public sector. Just remember that the region you want to visit is called "Chania" and NOT "Irakleion". The first is for vacation, the latter is just a big city with no touristic value.
Hmm, I suppose that's the idea I had. At least you have beautiful women as company in the summer; here we have 300 pound whales in belly shirts. Bleck.
MS Sql has been making serious inroads for years, because its much cheaper that Oracle.
Well maybe in Greece they have a strong bias towards Oracle. I don't really know why, but they definitely think Oracle is the solution to all their problems. As long as I don't pay their licenses... I don't really care.
Don't know why you'd say I don't know much about Linux
Because I thought you didn't know that SSH in Linux is part of the OpenSSH suite.
and yes, I'm much happier administering with RDC than I ever was using SSH
Well ok, but I really think that both of them serve different purposes. But in the case of a graphical remote client, I'd use FreeNX which has crypto and is faster than RDC(which is VNC underneath, I think).
Greece is MUCH more beautiful country than the US; I wish we tried as hard to keep things as nice. Of course, I've only seen pictures..
Our Islands are nice, yes. Athens(our capital where I live) is just another city. Not much there really. I know US only from the movies/TV. If it is anything like them, seems nice:)
There is a misconception that Greeks are living in exotic islands with beautiful women as their company. Only in summers we enjoy this luxury(along with the tourists).
Hey I never jumped in your conversation. The exact opposite happened. I was just replying to the parent poster.
Then you've fallen for the anti-MS FUD. Windows is just as secure.
It's impossible to fall for FUD. I always observe and then I make my conclusions. Windows is not even close to being as secure and even saying that seems odd. The only people that say this, are people that are only comfortable with windows. I can't even begin to think how it's possible to say that, since in Windows you leave the security in the hands of a company, where as in Linux the knowledge of the administrator plays an important role. There are numerous times where I could patch, by hand, a piece of software in linux, before even the company(Novell,RedHat) had issue a patch. And all these with out even mentioning SELinux.
And most of the DB installs I've dealt with are MS Sql Server.
First of all, what I meant was that most ORACLE installs I ve seen are in Linux. Not generally DB installs. But since you mentioned that, I gather that you haven't been in many mission critical installations now, do you? Maybe I'm wrong though.
And in case you think I 'm Anti-MS, you are wrong. Every OS has its place. To say that Windows is as secure as Unix/Linux is wrong, the same way it's wrong to say that Linux can replace Windows in the client-side.
To prove my point I have to tell you that since I'm being paid a lot of money as an Oracle DBA, I should have an agenda. The thing is that Oracle is just a piece of crap security-wise. And I've been proved right many many times. But unfortunately feature-wise, is the best bar none. Don't let me get started on the company's support. With Postgres I can solve my problems in a matter of minutes just by wandering through the fora.
Huh? Third party tool? The company SSH is owned by the man that came up with the protocol!! The open source package you have that comes with Linux is the one this guy wrote!
You are kidding right? Tell me you are kidding. You are talking about Putty? Is the same man who invented ssh? Which ssh in Linux, by the way, is included in the OpenSSH suite? Which is a part of OpenBSD? Tell me you are joking please!! You don't seem too knowledgeable about Linux, I 've got to tell you that.
All the other things you mention about my gibberish may very well be true, since English is not my native language and sometimes I write English like I am writing Greek(which is my native language).
I never said by excluding ssh someone cripples a Windows OS. I don't even think someone else posted such a thing. The whole point was that MS ignores that many environments are mixed. That's why I mentioned the samba example, remember?
And yes although by excluding ssh you are not crippling Windows, you are crippling a mixed environment. And no, the solution you suggested(buying a 3d party tool) is laughable. You know it too. After all we are not talking if I or you can solve these things out. Of course I have all the tools I need in a laptop/Usb/cd-rom. Nevertheless I feel more secure if an OS can handle basic functions with its default installation.
That's why I feel more secure with Linux systems. You are a professional you know what I mean. I 'm a DBA(specially Oracle) and most of the DB installs I come across are on Linux/Unix, even if the whole organization has all the clients running Windows.
So my initial post were about people(administrators) that work with mixed environments. Actually I never added anything more compared to people that said EXACTLY the same thing and got moded +5 Insightful.
P.S. I can't understand how someone can evaluate someone else's karma with just what.. 4-5 posts?
"Ugh.. why am I wasting time replying to someone that starts at a 0?"
That said a lot.
Actually I ve been on slash since the beginning maybe? Always as an anonymous coward. I had many +5 funnys,insightful, etc not attributed to any alias or nickname. And you know why? Because it does not define who I am so I really could not care less. Obviously you care a lot, so I m not gonna break it to you.
No matter how I talk(offensive or not), I always reply to someone even out of courtesy. Although no one is watching this thread but us. So no insightful/interesting mod points for me *sniff*.
Everyone in slashdot is an expert like you with millions of years of experience, but can't even reply to simple arguments like you neglected(samba in linux that I mentioned in a previous reply). Your answers have nothing to do with what I elaborated in this post. So maybe we should drop it here. No hard feelings. You can put me in your "foes" (I don't use this feature) and be done with it. If you just want to keep your "experienced" opinion, keep it.
Although I really can't get it how an experienced IT guy like you weren't in a situation where Internet was not available. I never talked about constrained environments though, so keep your statistics for another posts.
peace(no really!)
Wrong tool for the job? Prove it? Dude have you watched any of the previous threads here? It is the ONLY tool you have to control a Unix Box THROUGH A WINDOWS BOX!!! I don't have to prove anything. It is a fact. Obviously you haven't worked with a mixed environment, that's why you are still insisting by making no sensible arguments. If you prefer Windows it's fine by me, actually I don't really care. But since you have absolutely no clue about other Operating Systems, I really can't understand why you have such a strong opinion.
"Prove it"? I almost fell off my chair with that one.
Oh man, you dont get the point. There are MANY MANY times in my work where I have to use ssh through a windows box(because the servers are in another locked room) and there is NO internet connection. For a hundred million reasons Internet is not accessible. Yeah, windows can live without it. Yeah I can download a third party tool later. But the point is, it is the most used tool in business situations(servers etc). You think Microsoft does not know that? Linux could have you download samba yourself. But guess what, they know one way or another you are going to deal with windows machines. That's the point.
Let alone the fact the parent poster used the "double standards" BS to get mod'ed +5 Interesting, by deliberately missing the point. Cause in case you dont know it's the "in" thing today to bash slashdot, like it's a bunch of people acting as one unit. We are not a political party. Everyone has his own standards.
I hope I clarified enough so I hereby declare this thread... closed(for me at least). C ya
Err.. are you just playing stupid? I 've heard about browser wars but not about system utilities wars. Maybe because ssh/ftp should be included in an operating system in order...well to operate?
What happens when you are setting up a network with no Internet access? How can you download these third party apps? How can I set up my network without these built-in tools?
All I want is the URL so I can play it with mplayer. I have no intention of putting Flash on my machine. Is that so danged difficult?? Well since the "download video" plugins for Firefox won't work anymore,
there's this way..
1)go the video you want and load it in order to see it
2)open konqueror and go to "/tmp/" and sort the files by "date"
3) The last video on the list will have a name like "Flashfwfwea".
4)Open with mplayer
5):)
Actually the problem is ignorance. People who think that the BSD license is free(as in freedom) are pure and simple uneducated. I'm sorry that's the truth and I'll elaborate. You see the problem lies within the english language, that's why I have to put "as in freedom" in parentheses to understand which "free" notion I'm speaking of. In greek, free(as in beer) is "dorean" and free(as in freedom) is "elefthero". Two different notions. That's why native-english speakers talk about freedom in the way "I can do whatever I like!". NO YOU CAN'T!!!! Freedom(in greek) is almost a synonym to "responsibility of my actions". Yes you can do whatever you like BUT it always comes with a set of responsibilities like anything else in life. e.g. I have a table full of food; chicken, fish, meat and I'm FREE to eat whatever I CHOOSE to. Yes, but if you eat ALL of them you are not free but a SLAVE to your own desires(gluttony).
Well you see I don't agree with Stallman's opinions but he's definitely aware and educated in the notion of true freedom. GPL is free(as in freedom), BSD is not(that doesn't mean is not a good license).
Yes I'm greek and I hate giving lectures but a lot of years have past that I've kept my mouth shut because I was too bored to elaborate. But the amount of people that are so ignorant about these simple notions that have been defined thousands of years ago are astonishing!!!
ps. Also, "Love" and "in love" are almost the opposite notions but I'm really bored to elaborate on that. Anyway in greek we have 2 different words, for that reason. I love english because it's pretty simple but I can't help it when I see its inadequacies.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't want to sound like a troll, but I am really thinking about entering the journalism turf. It seems like an easy job. No reality check, no knowledge of business logic. You just write and you get paid. At least that's what many of them do.
I mean has he ever wondered about why would someone pay a license for... anything? Maybe ... support? Has he ever heard of Oracle? Or SAP? Does he even have a clue what platforms these software manufacturers support?
I know many said the same thing. But I am not arguing about the premise of the article, rather how come an article like that gets published and even worse, how come it's posted here.
The only competitor to Red Hat is Novell, period. Maybe Ubuntu will join in the future. In other words the sky is blue and water is still refreshing. So... where's my money?
After all, I thought that was the biggest problem with passwords.
First there were letters, now there will be ... drawings?
hmmm....
Well although you covered the updating stuff(which was a classic example), I didn't understand if it is possible to automate arbitrary stuff(like the other example I gave you).
Ahh, I see. Makes perfect sense. I thought there was a bridge to Crete...Hahaha, no no no! We are definitely not known for our big constructions! The biggest(and only suspension) bridge we have is the one which connects main Greece with Evia(BTW that's where I'm from). It's not longer than 700 meters(do the conversion).
Movies are a favorite pasttime of mine. Any good Greek movies that use English (or at least have subtitles)?Well one very good movie is "Z"(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065234/) by Costas Gavras. It is very old though(1970?) and has to do with some important political events that happened back then. I don't know if you can find it in US. One excellent movie that you CAN find is "Le Couperet"(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0422015/) made in 2005 by the same director. Costas Gavras now lives in France that's why it is in French(subtitled of course). 4 days ago I saw a big Greek -Spanish production about El Greco,a famous Greek painter(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0905329/). It is in both English and Greek. Actually they switch between English and Greek in arbitrary intervals. For me it was awful. Others found it interesting. I suppose you know about Zorbas the Greek?(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057831/). Made in Greece and starring Anthony Quinn. You have definitely heard this movie's theme song, guaranteed.
Yeah, but if you just want to start a server, in ssh you do it in 2 seconds. Plus I have so many scripts that automate stuff. that with out an SSH server its impossible. For example I run a script from my PC that it sends commands at 10+ PC's simultaneously so that they all get their software updates. I don't even have to type any logins/passwords because I have transfered the necessary crypto keys to each and every machine. In the same way I gather statistics and info from my networks. Otherwise I 'd have to login with VNC/FreeNX on every machine and do it manually.
Hmm, I would think most Greeks have been to Crete.Of course most of us have!!! But most of the Greeks have a parent that comes from there. I don't. Plus is a long way from Athens(6-9 hours with the ferry). But now, I've been to all over Greece.
Ya, well, please don't judge us by our TV; some of us actually do have brains!Yeah, don't worry most of us know that. Although sometimes it creeps me out when I see people chanting/preaching about Jesus Christ etc , in documentaries.
Oh, and probably I've seen all your movies? :)
C ya
I think they opt for usability. After all as you said, they are geeks, not artists.
Yes but over an internet link, if you just want to script something or edit a file, GUI is an overkill. Let aside the fact that in servers(Unix/Linux) you mostly don't want to install an X server(for graphics) because apart from the memory overhead there is an extra layer prone to bugs and instability. Stupid thing is that for Oracle you need an X server JUST for the installation and then you can remove it.(I heard Windows server 2008 is going to give the option to not install the graphical part)
Although I admin I don't know if Oracle offers such services, I assume it does thoughJust for fun go to the oracle site and take a look at their offerings. I am pretty sure you are going to find services that, take your kids to school, give you advice to score more women and other stuff. They have swallowed so many companies that their products don't make sense and at the very least, their integration is impossible.
Yes, my wife and I would love to vacation on CreteThis year I visited crete for the first time! Because of a contract with the public sector. Just remember that the region you want to visit is called "Chania" and NOT "Irakleion". The first is for vacation, the latter is just a big city with no touristic value.
Hmm, I suppose that's the idea I had. At least you have beautiful women as company in the summer; here we have 300 pound whales in belly shirts. Bleck.Hahahaha, no way!!! That's not what I see in TV!!
Well maybe in Greece they have a strong bias towards Oracle. I don't really know why, but they definitely think Oracle is the solution to all their problems. As long as I don't pay their licenses... I don't really care.
Don't know why you'd say I don't know much about LinuxBecause I thought you didn't know that SSH in Linux is part of the OpenSSH suite.
and yes, I'm much happier administering with RDC than I ever was using SSHWell ok, but I really think that both of them serve different purposes. But in the case of a graphical remote client, I'd use FreeNX which has crypto and is faster than RDC(which is VNC underneath, I think).
Greece is MUCH more beautiful country than the US; I wish we tried as hard to keep things as nice. Of course, I've only seen pictures..Our Islands are nice, yes. Athens(our capital where I live) is just another city. Not much there really. I know US only from the movies/TV. If it is anything like them, seems nice :)
There is a misconception that Greeks are living in exotic islands with beautiful women as their company. Only in summers we enjoy this luxury(along with the tourists).
Cheers!
It's impossible to fall for FUD. I always observe and then I make my conclusions. Windows is not even close to being as secure and even saying that seems odd. The only people that say this, are people that are only comfortable with windows. I can't even begin to think how it's possible to say that, since in Windows you leave the security in the hands of a company, where as in Linux the knowledge of the administrator plays an important role. There are numerous times where I could patch, by hand, a piece of software in linux, before even the company(Novell,RedHat) had issue a patch. And all these with out even mentioning SELinux.
And most of the DB installs I've dealt with are MS Sql Server.First of all, what I meant was that most ORACLE installs I ve seen are in Linux. Not generally DB installs. But since you mentioned that, I gather that you haven't been in many mission critical installations now, do you? Maybe I'm wrong though.
And in case you think I 'm Anti-MS, you are wrong. Every OS has its place. To say that Windows is as secure as Unix/Linux is wrong, the same way it's wrong to say that Linux can replace Windows in the client-side.
To prove my point I have to tell you that since I'm being paid a lot of money as an Oracle DBA, I should have an agenda. The thing is that Oracle is just a piece of crap security-wise. And I've been proved right many many times. But unfortunately feature-wise, is the best bar none. Don't let me get started on the company's support. With Postgres I can solve my problems in a matter of minutes just by wandering through the fora.
Huh? Third party tool? The company SSH is owned by the man that came up with the protocol!! The open source package you have that comes with Linux is the one this guy wrote!You are kidding right? Tell me you are kidding. You are talking about Putty? Is the same man who invented ssh? Which ssh in Linux, by the way, is included in the OpenSSH suite? Which is a part of OpenBSD? Tell me you are joking please!! You don't seem too knowledgeable about Linux, I 've got to tell you that.
All the other things you mention about my gibberish may very well be true, since English is not my native language and sometimes I write English like I am writing Greek(which is my native language).
cheers
And yes although by excluding ssh you are not crippling Windows, you are crippling a mixed environment. And no, the solution you suggested(buying a 3d party tool) is laughable. You know it too. After all we are not talking if I or you can solve these things out. Of course I have all the tools I need in a laptop/Usb/cd-rom. Nevertheless I feel more secure if an OS can handle basic functions with its default installation.
That's why I feel more secure with Linux systems. You are a professional you know what I mean. I 'm a DBA(specially Oracle) and most of the DB installs I come across are on Linux/Unix, even if the whole organization has all the clients running Windows.
So my initial post were about people(administrators) that work with mixed environments. Actually I never added anything more compared to people that said EXACTLY the same thing and got moded +5 Insightful.
P.S. I can't understand how someone can evaluate someone else's karma with just what.. 4-5 posts?
cheers
"Ugh.. why am I wasting time replying to someone that starts at a 0?" That said a lot. Actually I ve been on slash since the beginning maybe? Always as an anonymous coward. I had many +5 funnys,insightful, etc not attributed to any alias or nickname. And you know why? Because it does not define who I am so I really could not care less. Obviously you care a lot, so I m not gonna break it to you. No matter how I talk(offensive or not), I always reply to someone even out of courtesy. Although no one is watching this thread but us. So no insightful/interesting mod points for me *sniff*. Everyone in slashdot is an expert like you with millions of years of experience, but can't even reply to simple arguments like you neglected(samba in linux that I mentioned in a previous reply). Your answers have nothing to do with what I elaborated in this post. So maybe we should drop it here. No hard feelings. You can put me in your "foes" (I don't use this feature) and be done with it. If you just want to keep your "experienced" opinion, keep it. Although I really can't get it how an experienced IT guy like you weren't in a situation where Internet was not available. I never talked about constrained environments though, so keep your statistics for another posts. peace(no really!)
Wrong tool for the job? Prove it? Dude have you watched any of the previous threads here? It is the ONLY tool you have to control a Unix Box THROUGH A WINDOWS BOX!!! I don't have to prove anything. It is a fact. Obviously you haven't worked with a mixed environment, that's why you are still insisting by making no sensible arguments. If you prefer Windows it's fine by me, actually I don't really care. But since you have absolutely no clue about other Operating Systems, I really can't understand why you have such a strong opinion. "Prove it"? I almost fell off my chair with that one.
Oh man, you dont get the point. There are MANY MANY times in my work where I have to use ssh through a windows box(because the servers are in another locked room) and there is NO internet connection. For a hundred million reasons Internet is not accessible. Yeah, windows can live without it. Yeah I can download a third party tool later. But the point is, it is the most used tool in business situations(servers etc). You think Microsoft does not know that? Linux could have you download samba yourself. But guess what, they know one way or another you are going to deal with windows machines. That's the point. Let alone the fact the parent poster used the "double standards" BS to get mod'ed +5 Interesting, by deliberately missing the point. Cause in case you dont know it's the "in" thing today to bash slashdot, like it's a bunch of people acting as one unit. We are not a political party. Everyone has his own standards. I hope I clarified enough so I hereby declare this thread... closed(for me at least). C ya
so you have no clue how to administer a Unix box through a Windows box then. Bye
No. I mean how much it can save time for administrators to have a tool such as SSH. Instead of roaming up and down stairs/floors etc.
Err.. are you just playing stupid? I 've heard about browser wars but not about system utilities wars. Maybe because ssh/ftp should be included in an operating system in order ...well to operate?
What happens when you are setting up a network with no Internet access? How can you download these third party apps? How can I set up my network without these built-in tools?
The only time I have a problem between the keyboard
and the chair is... when I visit porn sites...
but maybe it's just me.
1)go the video you want and load it in order to see it
2)open konqueror and go to "/tmp/" and sort the files by "date"
3) The last video on the list will have a name like "Flashfwfwea".
4)Open with mplayer
5)
Actually the problem is ignorance. People who think that the BSD license is free(as in freedom) are pure and simple uneducated. I'm sorry that's the truth and I'll elaborate. You see the problem lies within the english language, that's why I have to put "as in freedom" in parentheses to understand which "free" notion I'm speaking of. In greek, free(as in beer) is "dorean" and free(as in freedom) is "elefthero". Two different notions.
That's why native-english speakers talk about freedom in the way "I can do whatever I like!". NO YOU CAN'T!!!!
Freedom(in greek) is almost a synonym to "responsibility of my actions". Yes you can do whatever you like BUT it always comes with a set of responsibilities like anything else in life.
e.g. I have a table full of food; chicken, fish, meat and I'm FREE to eat whatever I CHOOSE to. Yes, but if you eat ALL of them you are not free but a SLAVE to your own desires(gluttony).
Well you see I don't agree with Stallman's opinions but he's definitely aware and educated in the notion of true freedom. GPL is free(as in freedom), BSD is not(that doesn't mean is not a good license).
Yes I'm greek and I hate giving lectures but a lot of years have past that I've kept my mouth shut because I was too bored to elaborate. But the amount of people that are so ignorant about these simple notions that have been defined thousands of years ago are astonishing!!!
ps. Also, "Love" and "in love" are almost the opposite notions but I'm really bored to elaborate on that. Anyway in greek we have 2 different words, for that reason. I love english because it's pretty simple but I can't help it when I see its inadequacies.
Cheers
Let me guess, right now you are posting to slashdot through your phone... right?