Mikrotik Routers are solid routers, but they choke on bandwidth intensive applications - or maybe my routing tables choke. How would i know? What tools would i use?
The equipment being used is commercial grade and low cost compared to Motorola and Cisco alternatives. Other wireless equipment manufactures used licensed frequencies and it's still horrible to use or featureless. Then said same companies charge a 3000% markup for an unlock code to access additional bandwidth on their devices. I can't tolerate that. How am i supposed to pass on the savings to the end user without fair pricing?
The Coachella Valley is the area - all of it. A large area.
A dozen to start but hundreds in the near future - i'm going to provide high bandwidth service for next to nothing. So the routing HAS to work for minimal bucks.
Valuable input - if you have any other ISP experience please post here. I'm going to put together a collection of ideas from this slashdot article and try to build a routing system using this information.
As i recall, i worked with a brillant guy on a similar project. Truth is it would have all worked if the guy hadn't had a clue of his brillance. Everyone suffered in the end, including the guy who wrote this "Ask Slashdot" article. I've never seen such a smart person ready to burn every bridge on his way to success, especially when carrying 35lb batteries up the side of a mountain to replace the ones that aren't being charged by an underpowered solar panel for an access point. But i did see the light, and made sure that i am always open to suggestion. So please, if anyone has ideas on how to make this project a success, i'm ready for input, and ready to work together to make this cost effective wireless ISP a reality.
I guess i'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution. And if it doesn't exist, then let's build one. But Proxmox VE looks like it will fit well with managing computer resources between the handful of Dell 2950s slated for Zimbra, FreeIPA (Active Directory for Linux), Nagios, Cacti, and AIRControl. Still looking for a good FreeRADIUS server i can tie into FreeIPA - but i need lots of other stuff than just a router-in-a-box. A balance between smartest / practicality / economical directly translates into cost savings of the end user. Someday i will be able to provide free internet, but for now i am targeting $20-$40 a month for data, voice, video, and multicast TV. Some features of a good OSS router needing attention are:
* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC (Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco)? would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well? * Easy to manage large scale routing implementations - speed of deployment, discovery of devices, failover, centrally monitored? * Weatherproof - power outages, network hiccups, etc. nothing more irritating than going on-site to an AP to reboot in the middle of a storm
For more details about a specific area please ask.
Ya know when a person gets a new car or buys a new house, the dealer or broker takes a loan out in that person's name for the full price. so if i'm a dealer, then i get a fat check from the bank for like $30,000 to $50,000 to $200k for a house. You know that a "Verizon 2 Year Service Agreement" is the same thing? That they get a check for nearly $2,000 when you sign up for fios? Is this True? Then the day they terminate the agreement, they charge you an early termination fee? So that they can pay their accounting guys to tie up the loose ends?
I believe the point being made is that rules are flexible - but if someone makes it a point to remove that flexibility (i.e. Microsoft) then said persons should also be governed by their own inflexibility.
Maybe the problem is that so many companies out there can fail because of a free internet. Then again, i wonder what other business models would fail because of a similar "free" something. Medicine? Voting? Any ideas?
Lets talk briefly about real-world VPNs, notably OpenVPN
If i get enough questions, i'll post a walkthrough.
Site A: Verizon FIOS via 5GHz wifi backhaul / Free Space Optics PTP 2 Business class cablemodems 2 T1 dynamic connections
Site B: 2 Hi-speed DSL 2 of Your Neighbor's Turbo Cable modem packages that you are paying for
Site A is a 2GHz P4 with 5 PCI network cards - plug everything in and leave the integrated nic as the gateway port
Site B is same - plug it all in
Download OpenVPN Access Server Read the how-to and walkthroughs *** You might want to rent some Colo'd server on the net somewhere with plenty of bandwidth to be your VPN concentrator
Install on machines and tie all vpn's from Site A to Site B If using Linux, you now have a ton of virtual adapters - congratulations! Now bridge and bond - enlsave those connections! Load balance if reliability is an issue Cheapest DS3 I ever had. Not a tier 1 connection, but works. And please don't flame me saying "blah blah blah you can't la la la" - i was the kid that put a chainsaw engine on my BMX at 10 years old. You never know until you try.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beers by $20." (A tax reduction)
Drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22 % savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (15% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before and the first four continued to drink for free, but once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "But he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got TEN times more than I!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very important... They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
And you all thought that Obama was just having the US Mint print more money? That China would buy all of our debt and take over the US without firing a single shot? HA! Just wait until big businesses in China are bankrupted by cyberterrorism. And you thought that new US Air Force division was just for our defense? Tell that to our new Cybertron... er... Cyber Command. And Obama is really MEGATRON. Hail Decepticons! - WTF?
Maybe this technology could be used to further enhance wireless communication here on earth? How about 100 gigabit wireless backhauls - or even better, 100mbit wireless to your phone? I dunno, anybody have any data on these devices? http://www.l-3com.com/products-services/
Ironically Intel announced that they are going to stop outsourcing their GPU's in Atom processors and include the gpu + cpu in one package, yet nobody knows what happened to the dual core Atom N270...
Slashdot Mirror
Exactly.
Thanks :-)
Everyone seems satisified with Wal-Mart. But where is Service Merchandise nowadays? Or more recently, Circuit City?
Mikrotik Routers are solid routers, but they choke on bandwidth intensive applications - or maybe my routing tables choke. How would i know? What tools would i use?
The equipment being used is commercial grade and low cost compared to Motorola and Cisco alternatives. Other wireless equipment manufactures used licensed frequencies and it's still horrible to use or featureless. Then said same companies charge a 3000% markup for an unlock code to access additional bandwidth on their devices. I can't tolerate that. How am i supposed to pass on the savings to the end user without fair pricing?
The Coachella Valley is the area - all of it. A large area.
A dozen to start but hundreds in the near future - i'm going to provide high bandwidth service for next to nothing. So the routing HAS to work for minimal bucks.
Valuable input - if you have any other ISP experience please post here. I'm going to put together a collection of ideas from this slashdot article and try to build a routing system using this information.
Thank You
I'm thinking along the lines of a Nvidia Tesla running http://www.xorp.org/ - any ideas?
How about a list of components that would be needed to, let say, take on time warner with a wireless ISP? Lets make it as detailed as possible.
Great model, but i need expensive licenses to do any real routing.
Actually this isn't a bad solution, the interface is acceptable - but no real routing power behind it. Am i mistaken?
Are there any OpenBGP that i could tie into a web management interface like Ubiquiti's AirControl?
Well, i am trying to build an ISP, so... all of the above?
Subscriber equipment - Ubiquiti NanoStation M5
Access Point Equipment - three Ubiquiti Rocket M5 on 19db 120 sectors -> Mikrotik RB1000 for routing -> Rocket M5 for backhaul
Distribution facility - bonded FiOS links 100Mbit down / 60 Mbit up into ? (trying lots of stuff)
only 130 customers at this point - free access until i get the bugs worked out
FiOS will be upgraded to multiple DS3 as soon as i have something workable
As i recall, i worked with a brillant guy on a similar project. Truth is it would have all worked if the guy hadn't had a clue of his brillance. Everyone suffered in the end, including the guy who wrote this "Ask Slashdot" article. I've never seen such a smart person ready to burn every bridge on his way to success, especially when carrying 35lb batteries up the side of a mountain to replace the ones that aren't being charged by an underpowered solar panel for an access point. But i did see the light, and made sure that i am always open to suggestion. So please, if anyone has ideas on how to make this project a success, i'm ready for input, and ready to work together to make this cost effective wireless ISP a reality.
http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowLpllcAllList?QueryLpllcNumber=200731810144
http://firewi.com/businessplan.pdf
I guess i'm looking for a scalable ISP-in-a-box solution. And if it doesn't exist, then let's build one. But Proxmox VE looks like it will fit well with managing computer resources between the handful of Dell 2950s slated for Zimbra, FreeIPA (Active Directory for Linux), Nagios, Cacti, and AIRControl. Still looking for a good FreeRADIUS server i can tie into FreeIPA - but i need lots of other stuff than just a router-in-a-box. A balance between smartest / practicality / economical directly translates into cost savings of the end user. Someday i will be able to provide free internet, but for now i am targeting $20-$40 a month for data, voice, video, and multicast TV. Some features of a good OSS router needing attention are:
* PowerPC vs X86 vs GPU - does routing perform better on PowerPC (Mikrotik / Vyatta / Cisco)? would an Nvidia Tesla solution work well?
* Easy to manage large scale routing implementations - speed of deployment, discovery of devices, failover, centrally monitored?
* Weatherproof - power outages, network hiccups, etc. nothing more irritating than going on-site to an AP to reboot in the middle of a storm
For more details about a specific area please ask.
Ya know when a person gets a new car or buys a new house, the dealer or broker takes a loan out in that person's name for the full price. so if i'm a dealer, then i get a fat check from the bank for like $30,000 to $50,000 to $200k for a house. You know that a "Verizon 2 Year Service Agreement" is the same thing? That they get a check for nearly $2,000 when you sign up for fios? Is this True? Then the day they terminate the agreement, they charge you an early termination fee? So that they can pay their accounting guys to tie up the loose ends?
I believe the point being made is that rules are flexible - but if someone makes it a point to remove that flexibility (i.e. Microsoft) then said persons should also be governed by their own inflexibility.
Sonos is awesome if you have the cash to spend - it even has a pandora interface!
I recommend the soundbridge http://soundbridge.roku.com/soundbridge/index.php for the working middle class.
And it definitely has that audiophile look to it.
Maybe the problem is that so many companies out there can fail because of a free internet. Then again, i wonder what other business models would fail because of a similar "free" something. Medicine? Voting? Any ideas?
This must be Jimmy Jensen. Only guy i know that would rake his testicles over his laptop after posting someting like this.
Lets talk briefly about real-world VPNs, notably OpenVPN
If i get enough questions, i'll post a walkthrough.
Site A:
Verizon FIOS via 5GHz wifi backhaul / Free Space Optics PTP
2 Business class cablemodems
2 T1 dynamic connections
Site B:
2 Hi-speed DSL
2 of Your Neighbor's Turbo Cable modem packages that you are paying for
Site A is a 2GHz P4 with 5 PCI network cards - plug everything in and leave the integrated nic as the gateway port
Site B is same - plug it all in
Download OpenVPN Access Server
Read the how-to and walkthroughs
*** You might want to rent some Colo'd server on the net somewhere with plenty of bandwidth to be your VPN concentrator
Install on machines and tie all vpn's from Site A to Site B
If using Linux, you now have a ton of virtual adapters - congratulations! Now bridge and bond - enlsave those connections!
Load balance if reliability is an issue
Cheapest DS3 I ever had. Not a tier 1 connection, but works.
And please don't flame me saying "blah blah blah you can't la la la" - i was the kid that put a chainsaw engine on my BMX at 10 years old. You never know until you try.
EXPLAINING OUR UNITED STATES TAX SYSTEM WITH BEER
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beers by $20." (A tax reduction)
Drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22 % savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (15% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before and the first four
continued to drink for free, but once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "But he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got TEN times more than I!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very important... They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
And you all thought that Obama was just having the US Mint print more money? That China would buy all of our debt and take over the US without firing a single shot? HA! Just wait until big businesses in China are bankrupted by cyberterrorism. And you thought that new US Air Force division was just for our defense? Tell that to our new Cybertron... er... Cyber Command. And Obama is really MEGATRON. Hail Decepticons!
- WTF?
I'm gonna hook up one of these to my mimo n backhaul
http://www.l-3com.com/products-services/docoutput.aspx?id=1042
Maybe this technology could be used to further enhance wireless communication here on earth? How about 100 gigabit wireless backhauls - or even better, 100mbit wireless to your phone? I dunno, anybody have any data on these devices?
http://www.l-3com.com/products-services/
Ironically Intel announced that they are going to stop outsourcing their GPU's in Atom processors and include the gpu + cpu in one package, yet nobody knows what happened to the dual core Atom N270...