Lol yeah I agree with you, your kind of taking the same stance as Sam Harris now or Ayan Hirsi Ali, with creating dissidence and stating that reformation takes place in the light of criticism:)
I totally agree with you, however I personally would draw mmore attention and give more focus to the issue of indoctrination, Personally I feel this is one of the greatest misdeads in our, as well as other, cultures and can be one of the greatest causes of the current conflicts seen throughout our world today...
Religion and politics do not share the same core of indoctrination as you've indicated. Infact it's quite evident by the fact that you are forced to PARTICIPATE in your parents faith, with no choice of your own, from an age before you can make rational descisions yourself(frontal lobe development in children doesnt finish until past their teenage years lol)... However in politics we have a minimum age to PARTICIPATE, you ahve to be old enough and rational enough to make decetn descisions for yourself eg.18 otherwise you undermine the entire concept of democracy...If your vote or coice is not that of your own and doesnt reflect those ideas which are your own, you are being idsengenious to the entire political system.
I Guess contrary to what you've said in your previous post, about reading Dawkins book, you actaully haven't. However, I have numerous times...and your actually wrong in what you've said. Dawkins, in his book, actually classifies himself as a "strong unbeliever" category 5-6 out of a range of 7, where seven is an absolute "Knowing" it is not true. He basically says its jsut not very liekely, and if in fact, the ever became available ANY evidence to support your crazy man in the sky "theory" then he would revise his and be more open minded to it.... But, the reason why he isn't is because this smoking gun has never ever been found ro substantiated in any way...
Btw someone saying "i convinced that this isnt what God wanted" or blah blah blah whatever... Doesnt mean it isn't and he has absolutely no more authority or insight into the situation than anyother so what your quoting is one mans "opinion" which doesnt hold up in the least to saying this isnt true....he even says that his explanation is not very likely but its possible....WOW GREAT COME BACK, jsut accept your wrong and that your faioth teaches bullshit like this and realize it for what it is, if you dont agree wiht it and dont believ it then great, im happy cause no normal person in the 21st centruy should subscrbe to this kind of thought. However, if you dont believ this and dont take what the bible says as literal fact but you do take other parts as literal fact th3en you are A) a hypocrit, B) disengenious, or C)following your own religion adn shouldnt be calling it christianity....But whatever, im done tryign to make you see reason, I guess you cant reason wiht people who hear voices adn belive in zombies and crazy magical powers and an immortal soul(when I put it like this dont you feel a lil embarrased? i mean come on....you believe in zombies and crazy things, and you feel that crazy metaphysical spiritual things are compatable wiht science) Aw well I dont care anymore, maybe someday you'll realize that caring for your fellow man is more important then building a new church, and providing books for children is more important then burning them, and encouraging free thoguht and personal freedom and liberty is more important then stealing it away from people. Good bye
I dont care about you personally, and sorry if i made any personal ad hominem attacks drawing focus away from the points I was trying to express, trust me with all the cannon foder that Stoo has given me the last thign I need to do is make personal attacks I think the points I mde are simple enough for anyone to understand even though he personally jus doesnt get it...And dude, your jsut as ill informed about christianity as Stoo is if you think all there is to it is dont be a dick...LOL you've obviously never read the bible nor read all my posts detailing jsut a few of the treachourous acts and teachings contained in it(its not all turn the other cheek, somtimes its kill all those of my own peopel (as said by moses) who worship the graven image of a calf, which si honestly much the same as saying tis kool the sadam gases his own people because eh heard voices form god....GET REAL MAN. While Stoo is a highly irrational person and I don't think will ever understand that what is in the bible IS IN THE BIBLE, and that looking at it and interpreting or clutching at straws through rose colored glasses doesn't actually change the meanings and what was intended by the original, no matter what some apologists say its still a bronze aged book wiht little to absolutely no relevance to todays world adn does nothign except retard the strives made forward by every one else in the world......He feels its ok to stone children to death, as dictated adn requested by Moses, for not obeying their parents, Yeah, theres someone capable of having a rational exchange.... Just face it theres bad shit in the bible it preaches ahte in some areas and demands ruthless inhumane action, it is deplorable to woman, and warrants death for acts that are accepted by all cultures, it takes away your indivuduality and is simply historically wrong. If you want to live your life based on fairy tales and myths go ahead but please, please, keep it out of my life and out of my school system and my government and dont preache to me...I really honestly, and this si the absolute truth, wish that you religious people who preach this stuff adn dont even realize what your own faith dictates would grow a clue adn rationally, objectivly, look at the situation and come to terms wiht the fact that bronze age living and life styles arent compatable wiht 21st centruy life....
Stoo? you said you wanted books? that address the actauly issues, well i dare say you wouldnt give them the respect nor chance they deserve due to the fact that you've (like many crack pot religious folk) said you dont accept aspects of evolution you cant see or observe (this is creationist crack pot code for : No common decent). soooooooo if your unwilling to accept theories wiht such hugely immense bodies of evidence behind them as evolution then i dare say you wont be accepting anythign else, not even the studies I could reference for you off the top of my head or the books that I could as well.
WoW you said it all....First off Dualist, in the expressed context of my prvious post, implies that an individual holds a dual aspect of soul and body, eg you believe, as a dualist, that you can call that thing behind you eyes that you concider "you", is your conscience/soul/spirit/whatever...The dualist arguement in this context has nothing to do with good and evil but rather that you belive in seperation of mind and body, which is false, as indicated by all modern nerology and chemistry...
Anyways back to my point, as you've stated on your own, you know that the bible contains contradictions so I still dont get why you'd put any stock in what it says. The bible has no proof or evidence beside word of mouth and scrybed adn flawed translations and copies which were made several decades after Jesus died (LOL this, btw, is not proof), it is ummm shall i say wishful thinking. You have no proof of anything besides what you've fealt, and what is in the bible(not verifiable remember? and "eye witnesses" don't count lol:P). Your the one making the positive assertion, not I, therfore the burden of proof is on you to proove it, Something is by contrast to be concidered false until proven true (eg. Fairies, God, Ewoks, Superman). You cannot use the excuse "you cant disprove it, therefore it is true by default" because it is an absolutely ridiculous point to make. I can prove this with a simple example borrowed from the great "heretic", as you'd call him, Bertrand Rusell; The example being that of the celestial teapot. May I possit this; Let me say that there is a teapot circling the sun between Earth and Mercury and I tell you that I believe this is true and infalible therefore it is, THERE IS A CELESTIAL TEAPOT I KNOW IT I KNOW IT I KNOW IT!!!! I DON"T WANNA LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THERE ISN'T, THE TEAPOT REVEALED ITSELF TO ME IN A VISION AND THEN TO AGAIN TO ME AND 500 OTHERS....And then I tell you that because you can't Disprove it then it has to be true.....Not a very good arguement eh, cause it is more or less impossible to disprove no matter how unlukely it is....Now you know how you sound lol.
Next, I laugh at you, not to be rude, but rather because its funny, I dont knwo why anyone would be upset or make an issue of em laughing at them unless they were, in fact, a little embarrassed about their beliefs. I'm laughing because your saying all this stuff and saying how it would be ok to kill your own son if God told you it was a "good idea" even if he WAS just playing a joke on Abraham (Wow, your crazy). Sorry but theres no place in the world for people who think that murder or acts of callous equivelancy can be jsutified by what some all powerful dictator in the clouds (and yes, he is a dictator) says. The god you worship is jealous(thou shall have no other Gods but me), merciless(within the bible rests the warrants for genocide/infanticide/murder/and rape), Evil(just read JOB, God is prideful), Egotistical. If you dont give your soul over and pledge eternal devotion to whatever he says then you are damned....Kinda sounds like Kim Jong Ill, "believe what I believe, Do what I say, think what I want you to think, and dont do what I dont want you to do, or you die and I will curse you for eternity" kinda sounds like a facsit dictator to me....
Next, EVERY RELIGIONS GOD CAME TO THEM AND PRESENTED HIMSELF: Jews/Muslims/Taoist/Greeks/Egyptians/Hindus/Etc. all of their holy books and accounts, which are just as plausible as yours, make these assetions wiht the same weight as yours, yet you dont believ in them and think they are wrong eh?
Finally there is a story much the same in the Bible as Abrahams but it ends slightly different, I dont have the passage now but I will find it for you but here is the brief synopsis: A warrior was to lead his men into battle and the night before he had a conversation with God and made the pledge to offer as a burnt offering, "whatsoever comes to meet me at my door when I return" if he was victorius. Well he was, and when he returned his daughter met him at the door wi
Oh one more time......"great thologists" is a contradictory term....there are none, I don't respect theologists unless they be historical theologists, but these preachers who get degrees in theology from studying all the bible contains make me sick and make me feel ym PHD im working on is more adn mroe worthless.....they dont deserve any more respect then anyone else adn I CERTAINLY dont coniseder them educated any more then teh general populous, they have wasted tehir lifes studying something that has no value....And dont tell me relgion gives us blah, blah and blah. Some of our best minds, and were secular atheists or agnostics...
Well those are a few, but theres thousands more.....also you have to understadn a lot fo what is in the bible has been translated adn the curch isnt one to want to hand over their originals to eb re translated, even fi a few of therse are true or others, then it shows the bible to be falible adn eveyrhign in it must be called in to question and cannot be considered correct by default......so long christianity......Sorry but if its man made its man made and if its man made its corruptable...
I suggest you actually read on this stuff besides going to church adn lsitening to epoepl who have so much vested interst in this if you want a whole story, trust me i was relgiosu too but then i was "saved?" from it lol
Try reading Hitchens/Harris/Dawkins/Dennet, they all ahve references ot all teh contradictions adn proof, in fact in Dawkins book he list an appendix....lol no joke, in a novel...
Lastly, these thignshave bveen broguht up time adn time again, dont you see? silly goose lol, people like you are silly adn dont liek to lsiten to fact, half the peopel like you dont even believ in evolution or that the world is more then 6000 years old, so why would you be disuaded by a simple "contradiction" if proof right there in your face isnt enough i dont think a lil logical error would turn your head...
This si why creationism keeps trying to get into schools caus eyou folk still ahvent learned your wrong andwont listen to fact adn want to substitute reality wiht your warped fantasy world wher eyou get to see loved ones after you die adn you never just stop existing.....sorry it aint that pretty but enjoy yourlife adn the warmth you find from your solipsistic world view....:)
Also, again i should add this for the THIRD time, you ignored everything I have saiod so far, and thats a lot, about your beliefs adn science and how your wrong....I dont really care what you belive, jsut as long as you push it as science or anythign to do wiht science or try adn interject it into my society in a way that affects me....But then again I really dont think you have any good responses to even half of what ive said otehrwise you woulda hvae focused on it, since they are the main issue at hand
When i said how can we know the truth i emant really knwo the truth man....Like teh bible is contradictory was apst on by mouth for decades before being recorded some many years after Jesus death, several gospels disagree wiht each other over virgin birth adn stages of creation....and the actual dates adn stories about jesus and dating of several gospels that didnt end up getting cannonized (cause they didnt fit too too well, not that the others ar perfect, far from it) dont agree adn contradict each other is sign enough to take ANYTHIGN said in the bible as the truth or word of whatever you feel liek believing...
it can be verified it can be proven it has no evidence except the peopl who say "Gee Gorsh, it says it in the bible enad the bible is true, so its ture",a dn why is the bible true? "Cause all teh stuff ion teh bible is true"....Oh rihgt i forgot that tautology again.....how could i ahve been so over sighted....
LMFAO, dude get real your wrong adn stop talkiung about science, you simply wrong adn religion has no place in science or government or anybody else then your own....and even tellign yourself somethign true doesnt make it so lol.
Secondly, Your talking about spiratual demensions as if theres any more proof or evidence of them besides your crazy dellusions, where are all the faeries as well, You ahve a dualist view, thers no such thing as a soul simply the chemicals in your brain ebing the way they are gives you conscienceness, it is not somehtign that can go form one body to the other, or one plain inthat matter to another....Your full of nonesense and make me laugh lol....
You really should be embarrased about making comments about scientific truth and general world truth adn the compatability of science and relgion when you say things like "Just because we can't see it or even imagine what it would be like doesn't mean that it's not there." I hope to HELL you dont have a degree in anythign besides "crazy assertations"
You believ that evolution is false too right? lol hahahahahahaha
Back to your "list though" stealing is the same in right as pillaging, and has been given numerous times to be done by god to the tribes of israel...
I bet you take solice in the idea that "the other guys" wqho think their God feels the same way about you guys as your God feels about them are so far away from you in the States....
You think its ok for an adulterer to be stoned and killed eh?....you think its ok for homosexuals to be "killed", or sorry, "be made examples of by capital punishment".....You feel its ok if a girl doesnt show signs of her virginity on her wedding nihgt she should be killed.....You think an "attempted infantacide" is ok cause it was attempted and only half the babies dies right? lol, you think cutting off a piece of the genitals for no reason except aesthetics is ok cause it was a promise made between God and abraham (another poor example morals btw, go try adn kill your son abraham caus eyou heard voices in your head)..... Sorry but rape was condoned again time adn time again in the old testement made clear by god when he told tribes to take the woman of there enemies who were virgins....lmao i cant believ you think all this stuff is opk and compatible wiht the modern world adn not bronze age mid east. I bet you also think the Jews are owed a specific piece of property in teh middle east "cause God said so", OMG grow a brain....and think twice before entering a conversation about science next time man
Sigh, truth is not relative, well at least NOT IN THE WAY WERE TALKING ABOUT AND NOT IN THE YOUR PRESENTING(thats very disingenious, and doesnt prove anythign sir:P), if you want to say truth is relative and science is relative I hope you neevr decide to teach and pass that garbage onto anyone else....Cause in the CONTEXT of what were disputting "truth" and "science" are not relative and MUST be discretely boolean in value otherwise the statements adn asertions made by each are falsified by default.....I notice all you fall back on is "Truth is realitve"....but as i said, when speaking in discrete terms isnt that the saem as a "false"?....we're talking science, and science is far from relative in its interpretations, well at least in the bulk of verifiable empirical study......You simply ignored every point I made about you being either a hypocrit, a disengenious, crazy, or ill informed indivdual in my previous posts....And evry arguement I made was from a logical standpoint, You either belive in the texts, cherry pick, derive your own beliefs for no apparent reason except peronsal ideologic solidifacation, or are crazy....I've already shown this in my previous posts, so now your jsut wasting my time....You cant have a scientific rational discussion wiht NAYONE WHO INVOKES the irrational as an explanation, sorry you jsut can't....LOL:P, Silly Goose!!
Oh and also.......Science isnt about relativism(unless talking about a system in a relativistic sense, or an issue in physics but we KNOW what sense of relativism we mean here) or "perspective"....This si what the original post was about.....CHECK YOUR HAT AT THE DOOR.....
Thank you:)
I laugh at you....
I don't think you either A)understood my post, or B)read it.....
just to clarify on this read the reply I left to another responder.
WoW so you belive stuff like "As for my evidence in the truth, I have confidence in the authority of Jesus who not only claimed to be God, but proved it by miracles, healings, resurrections while He was alive, but when He did die, He raised Himself from the dead, showing Himself to not only the disciples, but also more than 500 eye witnesses, most of who went to their deaths on the basis of His witness to them."
But not all the other shit in the book that disagrees with simple science (in all fields), human ethics, morals, and curretn world views.....
You know Jesus Christ who doesn't say anythign in the new testement about freeing claves, but wholefully condones it" if your goign to take his miracles adn all teh toher bullshit for literal interpretation to the bible dont forget Jesus saying how you its not bad to keep slaves, jsut so long as you dont beat them too badly they you put out their teeth or eyes....
You skipped most of my post and the points i made but then again i guess your not used to dealign wiht a rational response, caus we all know how rational miracles are....
Sigh, you embrace him on what grounds? because of what youve been told in that BOOK you read about him or because you had a "feeling"......the only way you know about the life acts or teachings of Jesus Christ is through the bible(which contradicts itself and common history should by no means be taken as a historic text) and its followers, and if you arent gonna accept the bible and what it says and the faith that it supports but simply cherry pick its figure for your own, i gotta laugh caus enow you dont even have the support of the faith and book on your side, all you have is a feeling.....you have to believe portions of the book and therefore the faith..
And if do, dare i say it, believe in a person whos only knowledge comes to you through the vessels of the faith grown up around it (which is true, you dont know anything about his history or life from any other substantiated text other then....the bible), then you sir are just plain mad....You belive in you own version of a supernatural being form a religion you dont suppoort or believe in, and have no reason nor support in it...If you dont believ in the chrsitan faith but its diety, you are A) cherry picking, and as i pointed out in the parent post, are being disengenious to yourself to support your own ideoligc views, or B)You are believing in the Chimeric diety of Christianity and your own belief that is absed on nothgin more then a "Feeling"....and you might as well have a feeling about "the easter bunny" as well and state that all you need to be a christian is to accept the easter bunny as your lord and saviour, because it has jsut as much credability.
Sorry but your irrational whichever way you look at it, and certainly, as such, have an incompatable view with world ethics, politics, and science.
Might I also add, in anticipation to your rebutle, if you yourself or any of the authors you might possibly present, have the view or understanding that you can cherry pick from Christian belief or text and accept aspects or recounts as "metaphorical" then by what standard do you call yourself a Christian... Because as far as I know if you, or anyone else, choose to decide to belive one thing and not another, and you yourself have no insight or evideence of what is true or not (how could anyone), then you are choosing aspects to suite your own ideoligic views, and are not being genuine. That is to say; "If you don't belive in one thing then you can't believe in any of it!"
Now reflect on this and tell me do you really belive that believing in magic and immaculate conceptions or demons, or monsters, magical plains of existance, or raising of the dead, or walls of a city falling because of trumpets, or that genocide/infanticide/rape/murder/stealing/genital mutilation are ALL acceptable things as long as they are in a religious context and can be rational in their scope of thought has any place in a RATIONAL PLEURALISTIC world.
I certainly don't.....
When people like you try and balance their christian faith adn say how compatable wiht modern living adn science it is you make me very scared....so much so i cringe....
If you dont believe in the foolish things I outlined above then you are by no standard a christian....and if you do, then I hope you God can help you.
Well, sorry. To be a Cristian and to believe in the metaphysical and the unprovable and to hold true to the ideal that accepting something on faith with no assurable evidence is an admirable quality is one which is far from rational nor intelligent. When you believe in virgin births, in immaculate conceptions in suspending the entire natural order, I hate to say it (actually I delight in it)....but....Your brain has been checked at the door.
I can't quite remember the orignal text nor author of this quote but I do recall it, and will share it with you...
"One has to ask oneself, is it more likely for the entire natural order to be suspended, or that a Jewish Minx should tell a lie"
It is the religious that I feel sorry for. The ones who's minds, I know, are forever locked into a state of irrational repress that affects their judgement and ability to think critically...
It depends how small of a point, if it gets to the quantum level maybe it IS a point and maybe it ISN't....You fail at reading.....You fail at interpreting.....You fail at understanding......And, you fail at insulting.....
Grow up and ACTUALLY attempt to understand what somebody is saying before you shoot your mouth off...
Sigh, the anthropic principle covers this one, it doesnt matter now small or what the odds are, if we here and observing it then it had to have happened, cause -duh duh DUHHHHH- were here aren't we? lol
Wow, how wrong are you.....I honestly think that Numb3rs is the most contrived POS on TV. First off, The acting ISN'T good. Second, The plots are always work back kind of solutions packed with the mathmatical equivelant to the techno-babel you see on most network Sci-fi tv shows (eg. Hey! I was just reading about this thing called the Riemann Zeta something, lets make it into an episode that most likely has NOTHING to do with the proof or application of the proof itself...). Third, the plots of the show are amazingly un realistic.....like applying pattern algorithims that take into account 200 varibales to figure out what house a kidnapper is hiding in... Come On!
Sorry, maybe im biased, but that show does nothing except get under my skin
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Lol yeah I agree with you, your kind of taking the same stance as Sam Harris now or Ayan Hirsi Ali, with creating dissidence and stating that reformation takes place in the light of criticism :)
I totally agree with you, however I personally would draw mmore attention and give more focus to the issue of indoctrination, Personally I feel this is one of the greatest misdeads in our, as well as other, cultures and can be one of the greatest causes of the current conflicts seen throughout our world today...
Religion and politics do not share the same core of indoctrination as you've indicated. Infact it's quite evident by the fact that you are forced to PARTICIPATE in your parents faith, with no choice of your own, from an age before you can make rational descisions yourself(frontal lobe development in children doesnt finish until past their teenage years lol)... However in politics we have a minimum age to PARTICIPATE, you ahve to be old enough and rational enough to make decetn descisions for yourself eg.18 otherwise you undermine the entire concept of democracy...If your vote or coice is not that of your own and doesnt reflect those ideas which are your own, you are being idsengenious to the entire political system.
I Guess contrary to what you've said in your previous post, about reading Dawkins book, you actaully haven't. However, I have numerous times...and your actually wrong in what you've said. Dawkins, in his book, actually classifies himself as a "strong unbeliever" category 5-6 out of a range of 7, where seven is an absolute "Knowing" it is not true. He basically says its jsut not very liekely, and if in fact, the ever became available ANY evidence to support your crazy man in the sky "theory" then he would revise his and be more open minded to it.... But, the reason why he isn't is because this smoking gun has never ever been found ro substantiated in any way...
Btw someone saying "i convinced that this isnt what God wanted" or blah blah blah whatever... Doesnt mean it isn't and he has absolutely no more authority or insight into the situation than anyother so what your quoting is one mans "opinion" which doesnt hold up in the least to saying this isnt true....he even says that his explanation is not very likely but its possible....WOW GREAT COME BACK, jsut accept your wrong and that your faioth teaches bullshit like this and realize it for what it is, if you dont agree wiht it and dont believ it then great, im happy cause no normal person in the 21st centruy should subscrbe to this kind of thought. However, if you dont believ this and dont take what the bible says as literal fact but you do take other parts as literal fact th3en you are A) a hypocrit, B) disengenious, or C)following your own religion adn shouldnt be calling it christianity....But whatever, im done tryign to make you see reason, I guess you cant reason wiht people who hear voices adn belive in zombies and crazy magical powers and an immortal soul(when I put it like this dont you feel a lil embarrased? i mean come on....you believe in zombies and crazy things, and you feel that crazy metaphysical spiritual things are compatable wiht science) Aw well I dont care anymore, maybe someday you'll realize that caring for your fellow man is more important then building a new church, and providing books for children is more important then burning them, and encouraging free thoguht and personal freedom and liberty is more important then stealing it away from people. Good bye
I dont care about you personally, and sorry if i made any personal ad hominem attacks drawing focus away from the points I was trying to express, trust me with all the cannon foder that Stoo has given me the last thign I need to do is make personal attacks I think the points I mde are simple enough for anyone to understand even though he personally jus doesnt get it...And dude, your jsut as ill informed about christianity as Stoo is if you think all there is to it is dont be a dick...LOL you've obviously never read the bible nor read all my posts detailing jsut a few of the treachourous acts and teachings contained in it(its not all turn the other cheek, somtimes its kill all those of my own peopel (as said by moses) who worship the graven image of a calf, which si honestly much the same as saying tis kool the sadam gases his own people because eh heard voices form god....GET REAL MAN. While Stoo is a highly irrational person and I don't think will ever understand that what is in the bible IS IN THE BIBLE, and that looking at it and interpreting or clutching at straws through rose colored glasses doesn't actually change the meanings and what was intended by the original, no matter what some apologists say its still a bronze aged book wiht little to absolutely no relevance to todays world adn does nothign except retard the strives made forward by every one else in the world......He feels its ok to stone children to death, as dictated adn requested by Moses, for not obeying their parents, Yeah, theres someone capable of having a rational exchange.... Just face it theres bad shit in the bible it preaches ahte in some areas and demands ruthless inhumane action, it is deplorable to woman, and warrants death for acts that are accepted by all cultures, it takes away your indivuduality and is simply historically wrong. If you want to live your life based on fairy tales and myths go ahead but please, please, keep it out of my life and out of my school system and my government and dont preache to me...I really honestly, and this si the absolute truth, wish that you religious people who preach this stuff adn dont even realize what your own faith dictates would grow a clue adn rationally, objectivly, look at the situation and come to terms wiht the fact that bronze age living and life styles arent compatable wiht 21st centruy life.... Stoo? you said you wanted books? that address the actauly issues, well i dare say you wouldnt give them the respect nor chance they deserve due to the fact that you've (like many crack pot religious folk) said you dont accept aspects of evolution you cant see or observe (this is creationist crack pot code for : No common decent). soooooooo if your unwilling to accept theories wiht such hugely immense bodies of evidence behind them as evolution then i dare say you wont be accepting anythign else, not even the studies I could reference for you off the top of my head or the books that I could as well.
WoW you said it all....First off Dualist, in the expressed context of my prvious post, implies that an individual holds a dual aspect of soul and body, eg you believe, as a dualist, that you can call that thing behind you eyes that you concider "you", is your conscience/soul/spirit/whatever...The dualist arguement in this context has nothing to do with good and evil but rather that you belive in seperation of mind and body, which is false, as indicated by all modern nerology and chemistry... Anyways back to my point, as you've stated on your own, you know that the bible contains contradictions so I still dont get why you'd put any stock in what it says. The bible has no proof or evidence beside word of mouth and scrybed adn flawed translations and copies which were made several decades after Jesus died (LOL this, btw, is not proof), it is ummm shall i say wishful thinking. You have no proof of anything besides what you've fealt, and what is in the bible(not verifiable remember? and "eye witnesses" don't count lol :P). Your the one making the positive assertion, not I, therfore the burden of proof is on you to proove it, Something is by contrast to be concidered false until proven true (eg. Fairies, God, Ewoks, Superman). You cannot use the excuse "you cant disprove it, therefore it is true by default" because it is an absolutely ridiculous point to make. I can prove this with a simple example borrowed from the great "heretic", as you'd call him, Bertrand Rusell; The example being that of the celestial teapot. May I possit this; Let me say that there is a teapot circling the sun between Earth and Mercury and I tell you that I believe this is true and infalible therefore it is, THERE IS A CELESTIAL TEAPOT I KNOW IT I KNOW IT I KNOW IT!!!! I DON"T WANNA LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THERE ISN'T, THE TEAPOT REVEALED ITSELF TO ME IN A VISION AND THEN TO AGAIN TO ME AND 500 OTHERS....And then I tell you that because you can't Disprove it then it has to be true.....Not a very good arguement eh, cause it is more or less impossible to disprove no matter how unlukely it is....Now you know how you sound lol.
Next, I laugh at you, not to be rude, but rather because its funny, I dont knwo why anyone would be upset or make an issue of em laughing at them unless they were, in fact, a little embarrassed about their beliefs. I'm laughing because your saying all this stuff and saying how it would be ok to kill your own son if God told you it was a "good idea" even if he WAS just playing a joke on Abraham (Wow, your crazy). Sorry but theres no place in the world for people who think that murder or acts of callous equivelancy can be jsutified by what some all powerful dictator in the clouds (and yes, he is a dictator) says. The god you worship is jealous(thou shall have no other Gods but me), merciless(within the bible rests the warrants for genocide/infanticide/murder/and rape), Evil(just read JOB, God is prideful), Egotistical. If you dont give your soul over and pledge eternal devotion to whatever he says then you are damned....Kinda sounds like Kim Jong Ill, "believe what I believe, Do what I say, think what I want you to think, and dont do what I dont want you to do, or you die and I will curse you for eternity" kinda sounds like a facsit dictator to me....
Next, EVERY RELIGIONS GOD CAME TO THEM AND PRESENTED HIMSELF: Jews/Muslims/Taoist/Greeks/Egyptians/Hindus/Etc. all of their holy books and accounts, which are just as plausible as yours, make these assetions wiht the same weight as yours, yet you dont believ in them and think they are wrong eh?
Finally there is a story much the same in the Bible as Abrahams but it ends slightly different, I dont have the passage now but I will find it for you but here is the brief synopsis: A warrior was to lead his men into battle and the night before he had a conversation with God and made the pledge to offer as a burnt offering, "whatsoever comes to meet me at my door when I return" if he was victorius. Well he was, and when he returned his daughter met him at the door wi
Oh one more time......"great thologists" is a contradictory term....there are none, I don't respect theologists unless they be historical theologists, but these preachers who get degrees in theology from studying all the bible contains make me sick and make me feel ym PHD im working on is more adn mroe worthless.....they dont deserve any more respect then anyone else adn I CERTAINLY dont coniseder them educated any more then teh general populous, they have wasted tehir lifes studying something that has no value....And dont tell me relgion gives us blah, blah and blah. Some of our best minds, and were secular atheists or agnostics...
Well those are a few, but theres thousands more.....also you have to understadn a lot fo what is in the bible has been translated adn the curch isnt one to want to hand over their originals to eb re translated, even fi a few of therse are true or others, then it shows the bible to be falible adn eveyrhign in it must be called in to question and cannot be considered correct by default......so long christianity......Sorry but if its man made its man made and if its man made its corruptable... I suggest you actually read on this stuff besides going to church adn lsitening to epoepl who have so much vested interst in this if you want a whole story, trust me i was relgiosu too but then i was "saved?" from it lol Try reading Hitchens/Harris/Dawkins/Dennet, they all ahve references ot all teh contradictions adn proof, in fact in Dawkins book he list an appendix....lol no joke, in a novel... Lastly, these thignshave bveen broguht up time adn time again, dont you see? silly goose lol, people like you are silly adn dont liek to lsiten to fact, half the peopel like you dont even believ in evolution or that the world is more then 6000 years old, so why would you be disuaded by a simple "contradiction" if proof right there in your face isnt enough i dont think a lil logical error would turn your head... This si why creationism keeps trying to get into schools caus eyou folk still ahvent learned your wrong andwont listen to fact adn want to substitute reality wiht your warped fantasy world wher eyou get to see loved ones after you die adn you never just stop existing.....sorry it aint that pretty but enjoy yourlife adn the warmth you find from your solipsistic world view....:)
Also, again i should add this for the THIRD time, you ignored everything I have saiod so far, and thats a lot, about your beliefs adn science and how your wrong....I dont really care what you belive, jsut as long as you push it as science or anythign to do wiht science or try adn interject it into my society in a way that affects me....But then again I really dont think you have any good responses to even half of what ive said otehrwise you woulda hvae focused on it, since they are the main issue at hand
When i said how can we know the truth i emant really knwo the truth man....Like teh bible is contradictory was apst on by mouth for decades before being recorded some many years after Jesus death, several gospels disagree wiht each other over virgin birth adn stages of creation....and the actual dates adn stories about jesus and dating of several gospels that didnt end up getting cannonized (cause they didnt fit too too well, not that the others ar perfect, far from it) dont agree adn contradict each other is sign enough to take ANYTHIGN said in the bible as the truth or word of whatever you feel liek believing... it can be verified it can be proven it has no evidence except the peopl who say "Gee Gorsh, it says it in the bible enad the bible is true, so its ture",a dn why is the bible true? "Cause all teh stuff ion teh bible is true"....Oh rihgt i forgot that tautology again.....how could i ahve been so over sighted.... LMFAO, dude get real your wrong adn stop talkiung about science, you simply wrong adn religion has no place in science or government or anybody else then your own....and even tellign yourself somethign true doesnt make it so lol.
Secondly, Your talking about spiratual demensions as if theres any more proof or evidence of them besides your crazy dellusions, where are all the faeries as well, You ahve a dualist view, thers no such thing as a soul simply the chemicals in your brain ebing the way they are gives you conscienceness, it is not somehtign that can go form one body to the other, or one plain inthat matter to another....Your full of nonesense and make me laugh lol.... You really should be embarrased about making comments about scientific truth and general world truth adn the compatability of science and relgion when you say things like "Just because we can't see it or even imagine what it would be like doesn't mean that it's not there." I hope to HELL you dont have a degree in anythign besides "crazy assertations" You believ that evolution is false too right? lol hahahahahahaha Back to your "list though" stealing is the same in right as pillaging, and has been given numerous times to be done by god to the tribes of israel... I bet you take solice in the idea that "the other guys" wqho think their God feels the same way about you guys as your God feels about them are so far away from you in the States.... You think its ok for an adulterer to be stoned and killed eh?....you think its ok for homosexuals to be "killed", or sorry, "be made examples of by capital punishment".....You feel its ok if a girl doesnt show signs of her virginity on her wedding nihgt she should be killed.....You think an "attempted infantacide" is ok cause it was attempted and only half the babies dies right? lol, you think cutting off a piece of the genitals for no reason except aesthetics is ok cause it was a promise made between God and abraham (another poor example morals btw, go try adn kill your son abraham caus eyou heard voices in your head)..... Sorry but rape was condoned again time adn time again in the old testement made clear by god when he told tribes to take the woman of there enemies who were virgins....lmao i cant believ you think all this stuff is opk and compatible wiht the modern world adn not bronze age mid east. I bet you also think the Jews are owed a specific piece of property in teh middle east "cause God said so", OMG grow a brain....and think twice before entering a conversation about science next time man
Sigh, truth is not relative, well at least NOT IN THE WAY WERE TALKING ABOUT AND NOT IN THE YOUR PRESENTING(thats very disingenious, and doesnt prove anythign sir :P), if you want to say truth is relative and science is relative I hope you neevr decide to teach and pass that garbage onto anyone else....Cause in the CONTEXT of what were disputting "truth" and "science" are not relative and MUST be discretely boolean in value otherwise the statements adn asertions made by each are falsified by default.....I notice all you fall back on is "Truth is realitve"....but as i said, when speaking in discrete terms isnt that the saem as a "false"?....we're talking science, and science is far from relative in its interpretations, well at least in the bulk of verifiable empirical study......You simply ignored every point I made about you being either a hypocrit, a disengenious, crazy, or ill informed indivdual in my previous posts....And evry arguement I made was from a logical standpoint, You either belive in the texts, cherry pick, derive your own beliefs for no apparent reason except peronsal ideologic solidifacation, or are crazy....I've already shown this in my previous posts, so now your jsut wasting my time....You cant have a scientific rational discussion wiht NAYONE WHO INVOKES the irrational as an explanation, sorry you jsut can't....LOL :P, Silly Goose!!
LOL read my other posts to you....
Oh and also.......Science isnt about relativism(unless talking about a system in a relativistic sense, or an issue in physics but we KNOW what sense of relativism we mean here) or "perspective"....This si what the original post was about.....CHECK YOUR HAT AT THE DOOR..... Thank you :)
I laugh at you.... I don't think you either A)understood my post, or B)read it..... just to clarify on this read the reply I left to another responder. WoW so you belive stuff like "As for my evidence in the truth, I have confidence in the authority of Jesus who not only claimed to be God, but proved it by miracles, healings, resurrections while He was alive, but when He did die, He raised Himself from the dead, showing Himself to not only the disciples, but also more than 500 eye witnesses, most of who went to their deaths on the basis of His witness to them." But not all the other shit in the book that disagrees with simple science (in all fields), human ethics, morals, and curretn world views..... You know Jesus Christ who doesn't say anythign in the new testement about freeing claves, but wholefully condones it" if your goign to take his miracles adn all teh toher bullshit for literal interpretation to the bible dont forget Jesus saying how you its not bad to keep slaves, jsut so long as you dont beat them too badly they you put out their teeth or eyes.... You skipped most of my post and the points i made but then again i guess your not used to dealign wiht a rational response, caus we all know how rational miracles are....
Sigh, you embrace him on what grounds? because of what youve been told in that BOOK you read about him or because you had a "feeling"......the only way you know about the life acts or teachings of Jesus Christ is through the bible(which contradicts itself and common history should by no means be taken as a historic text) and its followers, and if you arent gonna accept the bible and what it says and the faith that it supports but simply cherry pick its figure for your own, i gotta laugh caus enow you dont even have the support of the faith and book on your side, all you have is a feeling.....you have to believe portions of the book and therefore the faith.. And if do, dare i say it, believe in a person whos only knowledge comes to you through the vessels of the faith grown up around it (which is true, you dont know anything about his history or life from any other substantiated text other then....the bible), then you sir are just plain mad....You belive in you own version of a supernatural being form a religion you dont suppoort or believe in, and have no reason nor support in it...If you dont believ in the chrsitan faith but its diety, you are A) cherry picking, and as i pointed out in the parent post, are being disengenious to yourself to support your own ideoligc views, or B)You are believing in the Chimeric diety of Christianity and your own belief that is absed on nothgin more then a "Feeling" ....and you might as well have a feeling about "the easter bunny" as well and state that all you need to be a christian is to accept the easter bunny as your lord and saviour, because it has jsut as much credability.
Sorry but your irrational whichever way you look at it, and certainly, as such, have an incompatable view with world ethics, politics, and science.
Might I also add, in anticipation to your rebutle, if you yourself or any of the authors you might possibly present, have the view or understanding that you can cherry pick from Christian belief or text and accept aspects or recounts as "metaphorical" then by what standard do you call yourself a Christian... Because as far as I know if you, or anyone else, choose to decide to belive one thing and not another, and you yourself have no insight or evideence of what is true or not (how could anyone), then you are choosing aspects to suite your own ideoligic views, and are not being genuine. That is to say; "If you don't belive in one thing then you can't believe in any of it!" Now reflect on this and tell me do you really belive that believing in magic and immaculate conceptions or demons, or monsters, magical plains of existance, or raising of the dead, or walls of a city falling because of trumpets, or that genocide/infanticide/rape/murder/stealing/genital mutilation are ALL acceptable things as long as they are in a religious context and can be rational in their scope of thought has any place in a RATIONAL PLEURALISTIC world. I certainly don't..... When people like you try and balance their christian faith adn say how compatable wiht modern living adn science it is you make me very scared....so much so i cringe.... If you dont believe in the foolish things I outlined above then you are by no standard a christian....and if you do, then I hope you God can help you.
Well, sorry. To be a Cristian and to believe in the metaphysical and the unprovable and to hold true to the ideal that accepting something on faith with no assurable evidence is an admirable quality is one which is far from rational nor intelligent. When you believe in virgin births, in immaculate conceptions in suspending the entire natural order, I hate to say it (actually I delight in it)....but....Your brain has been checked at the door. I can't quite remember the orignal text nor author of this quote but I do recall it, and will share it with you... "One has to ask oneself, is it more likely for the entire natural order to be suspended, or that a Jewish Minx should tell a lie" It is the religious that I feel sorry for. The ones who's minds, I know, are forever locked into a state of irrational repress that affects their judgement and ability to think critically...
It depends how small of a point, if it gets to the quantum level maybe it IS a point and maybe it ISN't....You fail at reading.....You fail at interpreting.....You fail at understanding......And, you fail at insulting..... Grow up and ACTUALLY attempt to understand what somebody is saying before you shoot your mouth off...
Sigh, the anthropic principle covers this one, it doesnt matter now small or what the odds are, if we here and observing it then it had to have happened, cause -duh duh DUHHHHH- were here aren't we? lol
ERTW!!!!!!! YEAH BABY!!!!!!
Well jsut look at the insight riding a sybian can bring lol :P
ahh I was gonan say that whatever network exec let that show get past the pilot deserves to ahve their asymptote kicked lol :)
Wow, how wrong are you.....I honestly think that Numb3rs is the most contrived POS on TV. First off, The acting ISN'T good. Second, The plots are always work back kind of solutions packed with the mathmatical equivelant to the techno-babel you see on most network Sci-fi tv shows (eg. Hey! I was just reading about this thing called the Riemann Zeta something, lets make it into an episode that most likely has NOTHING to do with the proof or application of the proof itself...). Third, the plots of the show are amazingly un realistic.....like applying pattern algorithims that take into account 200 varibales to figure out what house a kidnapper is hiding in... Come On! Sorry, maybe im biased, but that show does nothing except get under my skin