A meter is the distance light travels in a certain fraction of a second. c is invariant no matter where you are, and a second is defined as a particular number of caesium atom vibrations, giving you a very precise basis for measurement of distance.
I love his title. It brings to mind large numbers of uniformed SCO stormtroopers... um... employees stomping around in jackboots yelling "Ja, mein Geschaeftsfuehrer!"
"Linux is a copy of UNIX. There is very little new stuff in Linux." Linux kernel forum
I'd like to see a date put on this. Anyway, Stallman's position has, for a long time, been that the Linux kernel is only a stopgap measure until the HURD reaches the appropriate state of perfection (although he seems to have relaxed that stance a little lately).
"I consider the law prohibiting the sharing of copies with your friend the moral equivalent of Jim Crow. It does not deserve respect." Richard Stallman, Free as in Freedom, Richard Stallman's Crusade for Free Software: O'Reilly (2002) at p. 72
And what, exactly, are SCO trying to imply with this? In case they didn't notice, he said "friend", not "multi-billion-dollar corporation". I fail to see how it has any bearing on their case against IBM.
"The whole GNU project is really one big hack. It's one big act of subversive playful cleverness..." Richard Stallman, Revolution OS (DVD)
Now, this one's just plain old misrepresentation (intentional or not). RMS's use of the word "hack" here corresponds to the second sentence - i.e., a clever piece of work. It would seem that SCO thought he meant it to imply a giant tangle of spaghetti code.
Bruce Perens
"This is becoming a tradition. I go there and break the law every year in the name of free speech." Bruce Perens, explaining his plan to demonstrate how to modify DVD technology to attendees of an Open Source convention.
Again, I fail to see how DVD copy protection has any bearing whatsoever on SCO's case against IBM.
"We have to remember that Linux is a follow-on to UNIX. It's not just a UNIX clone. It's actually a UNIX successor." Bruce Perens, mpulse magazine, December 2001.
This is a bit of a strange quote to put up - perhaps they're trying to imply that Bruce was saying that Linux builds on UNIX, but I suspect what they really wanted emphasize was the "... a UNIX clone" line; i.e., while it might currently be more than a clone of UNIX, it is at the core just a UNIX copy, perhaps in more ways than one.
Summary: Yet more FUD. Thanks, SCO, now please disappear off the face of the Earth.
Actually, not quite true. Assembly code is usually considered to mean the mnemonic code intended for human (well, semi-human) consumption, whereas machine language is the actual binary opcodes and arguments.
So, he's sort of right - you can decompile any binary program to assembler. It's usually called disassembly rather than decompilation, though.
EoE was originally supposed to be 25/26, but Anno's lack of cash forced him to give that up. After the fans 'objected' to the released versions of 25/26, Anno got more funding that allowed him to create his intended ending as EoE.
Heh... I wouldn't say I've watched Evangelion that much - I caught it during the second broadcast on TV Tokyo, and I've got the DVDs, but I've only watched them a couple of times... or maybe three... OK, I've watched it lots of times. Still doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about, though;)
I gave my take on the differences between Gendo's and Seele's aims in another post:
5) The battle between NERV (Gendo) and Seele Gendo's aim was to be rejoined with Yui. Seele's aim was not to enter Eva01 and drift through the universe for eternity, but rather to be the only humans to ascend to the godhood that unification offered - this is stated in the first half of EoE, where Seele say 'there is no need for us to ride in the Ark of Eva'. In order to do this, presumably they needed to control Adam, Lilith or Eva01 - all of which NERV had.
Gendo's stated motive is to produce a perfect, eternal Man from the unification of humanity and Eva01 or Lilith (Eva01 was produced from Lilith, just as humanity was). We know his real motive is to be reunited with Yui, but that coincides nicely with the method required by his supposed motive.
My statement about Seele wanting to be the 'only' humans to be unified is probably inaccurate - Seele states that "death will unite God and humanity into one", and "this is a rite of passage to produce an eternal humanity" (note that this differs from the 'eternal Man' concept held to by Gendo). They place no value in creating an eternal Man from Eva01, but rather being reborn as, effectively, gods after unification through the death/rebirth process offered by Eva.
What confuses it even more, unfortunately, is the Seele leader's statement just before liquification that "this is how it should be... this is the way". I believe that Seele still thought at this point that they could achieve their aims, either because they did not fully grasp the situation (the combination of Adam, Lilith and Eva01, the reappearance of the Spear of Longines), or because they knew at that point that Gendo had failed in his attempt and they thought that this would allow them to carry out their plan. Of course, Shinji's rejection of unification ruined their plans (if their plans ever had a chance of success, which is debatable).
Either way, the main points of contention between Gendo and Seele seem to be 1) a disagreement as to the result of unification, which is a direct consequence of how the process is carried out, and 2) the control of the components required for this to occur (Adam, Lilith, Eva01, Shinji).
Personally, I hate the explicit romanization of extended Japanese vowels with a 'u' because it makes all the non-Japanese speakers think that it should be pronounced '-dow' rather than '-doh', and "Gendoh" or "Gendoo" looks even worse, so we're even.
Remember, all of this is just speculation - Anno has never come out and said precisely what he was intending with all of this; he's stated that everything he wanted to say is in the series/movie.
***************MAJOR SPOILERS***************
That said, here's my take on each of your points:
1) Rei's sudden growth and destruction Rei was a clone of Yui, Gendo's dead wife (possibly mixed with material from Lilith; this is suggested by Rei's remark of "I'm home" on entering Lilith). He intended for her to act as a 'guide' to lead him to Yui upon the unification of humanity. Gendo attaches Adam to his hand in order to combine Adam (either the source of the Angels, or from the same source) and Lilith (probably the source of humanity). It's not clear exactly how he intended this, as Rei rejects him at the last moment, but it appears that he intended to merge with her and then enter Lilith (although if Rei already contained some Lilith material, the merge with Lilith may not have been necessary - the location does suggest that this is what Gendo intended, though). After Rei's rejection of Gendo, she merges with Lilith and grows. It appears that she is intended as a receptacle for the souls of all humanity, merging with Shinji (who is the 'trigger' for unification) and Eva01 (where Yui resides). When Shinji rejects unification, this process breaks down as humanity reverts to individualism, leading to the destruction of the giant Rei.
2) Shinji and Asuka on the beach Opinions vary a lot on this, but my concept of what happened is that after Shinji and Asuka reverted to individuals, they returned to their bodies (contraindicated by the likelihood that Asuka was torn apart by the unmanned Evas), they reformed from the remains of Rei, as she was partially Lilith, the originator of humanity (the blood-red sea may be an indicator of this, but there's a few holes in this theory as well - where did their clothes come from?), or it was simply a 'miracle' requiring suspension of disbelief.
3) Shinji's attack on Asuka This one's a lot easier to explain - Shinji turned down unification with humanity because of Asuka's rejection of him, and his shame and anger at this lead him to attack her (his mental state is obviously not very normal). A more complicated explanation is that she's proof that people other than him exist, causing him to try to erase her. Remember, Shinji's main motive throughout the series is to avoid being hurt by others - if there are no others, he cannot be hurt.
4) Gendo's failure to merge with Yui and Eva01 When each person's body liquifies and their soul goes to join the giant Rei, they each seem to experience it as an invitation or seduction by the person they care for most. Gendo, on the other hand, loves nobody (as he admits, he doesn't believe he deserves to be loved, and thus is afraid of being hurt - just as Shinji is). Instead of being invited into unification by a loved one, he is destroyed by Eva01 (and thus Shinji) - this is Gendo experiencing what he believes he deserves. It's not clearly stated, but it seems likely that this is what prevents him from joining with the rest of humanity. It's possible that Gendo knew it wouldn't be possible for him to join humanity without the help of Rei, Lilith and Adam, and thus when Rei rejected him, he knew what awaited him.
5) The battle between NERV (Gendo) and Seele Gendo's aim was to be rejoined with Yui. Seele's aim was not to enter Eva01 and drift through the universe for eternity, but rather to be the only humans to ascend to the godhood that unification offered - this is stated in the first half of EoE, where Seele say 'there is no need for us to ride in the Ark of Eva'. In order to do this, presumably they needed to control Adam, Lilith or Eva01 - all of which NERV had.
Thanks for the thoughtful response - much appreciated.
Could you give a spoiler for this? I didn't catch that. I've seen 25 & 26 many times and as far as I'd gathered, Gendou's plan went about as intended. Certainly Shinji was tripping out (as any human mind would after experiencing that), but I basically saw it was a relearning/reeducation in a "perfect" world.
If you watch closely (can't remember if it's 25 or 26), there's a very quick flash that shows Misato's death scene, as well as another that shows Ritsuko floating in the liquid around Lilith. It all seems to indicate that what was happening in the 'real world' matched EoE, but Shinji was just rejecting it all (again, a more pragmatic explanation exists - Anno had already done some of the scenes for 25/26, following the plot of EoE (which wasn't planned at the time), so he put them in the mix).
Anno had already used up almost all of his funding by the time he reached episode 23 or 24 - that's why there's so many silhouette scenes, not to mention the roughs (pencil drawings) used in place of completed scenes. He wasn't able to get more funding until the fan outcry about 25/26 convinced the production company to cough up some more money.
Refer to my earlier reply to one of your posts as to the meaning of the last two episodes. I'd just like to comment further on your portrayal of the significance of EoE.
Shinji doesn't freeze at the moment of truth; he's eventually ready to unite with all humanity, but Asuka's rejection of this causes him to choose to return to individuality. The movie doesn't show a "failed" Third Impact, just a scenario in which the uniting of humanity does not take place as Yui planned. She ends up as the only human to live for eternity (that's why you see Shinji's Eva floating off; it's carrying Yui). Rewatch it and listen carefully to Yui's "conversation" with Shinji.
**********MAJOR SPOILER for people who haven't watched EoE***********
The final scene of EoE is very ambiguous; Shinji and Asuka (and possibly all other humans except for Yui) have been reincarnated as individuals as a result of Asuka's rejection of unification with Shinji. Many people see this as an indication of Asuka's feelings for Shinji, in that she doesn't wish him to know how deep her emotions are for him. Even the last line (which, in all the subbed versions I've seen, seems to be mistranslated) is ambiguous; it was actually an adlib by the voice actress, which Anno considered to be better than the script. What Asuka says could either be taken as a further rejection of Shinji as an extension of her earlier rejection, or as an indication of a genuine dislike of him. It's a bit hard to justify the latter considering what has occurred previous to that, though. I think the ending of EoE is actually rather positive - "humans should make the effort to do get along with each other as individuals".
Anno effectively sucker-punched his audience by pulling them in with promises of good old giant-robo action, and then taking a left turn into introspective otaku hell once he had them hooked. Not really fluff... more sort of bait.
Please note that Gendo didn't cheat on his wife - he didn't hook up with Ritsuko's mother, and then Ritsuko, until after she was dead (and even then he was only doing it to be rejoined with his wife).
You were misled. The series end was the part where Anno screwed over the fans by not trying (he'd run out of funding by that point); the movie was the part where he told the fans to get a life.
Slashdot Mirror
The original meter was indeed derived from the circumference of the Earth. I was talking about the modern meter.
A meter is the distance light travels in a certain fraction of a second. c is invariant no matter where you are, and a second is defined as a particular number of caesium atom vibrations, giving you a very precise basis for measurement of distance.
Guardians of World Peace - maybe - I can recall two times when the US had to play this role in your neck of the woods.
Which two times were those?
OK, would you care to explain how the astronauts on board the ISS got back to Earth then? I guess the truth hurts.
Since we became the only country still in existence that has successfully launched people into space
Last time I looked, the only space power still in existence was Russia...
Thanks. You just gave me a new standard for "the stupidest comment on /.".
So, what you're saying is this "I don't know anything about this system but I bet it's just more of them foreigners stealing good ol' US technology".
Thanks for your valuable input, Einstein.
The easiest way to discredit Open Source to the software development community is to quote Stallman, Perens.
Which software development community would that be? The one I'm in likes them just fine, thanks.
I love his title. It brings to mind large numbers of uniformed SCO stormtroopers... um... employees stomping around in jackboots yelling "Ja, mein Geschaeftsfuehrer!"
OK, OK, Godwin's Law, mod me down...
Richard Stallman
"Linux is a copy of UNIX. There is very little new stuff in Linux."
Linux kernel forum
I'd like to see a date put on this. Anyway, Stallman's position has, for a long time, been that the Linux kernel is only a stopgap measure until the HURD reaches the appropriate state of perfection (although he seems to have relaxed that stance a little lately).
"I consider the law prohibiting the sharing of copies with your friend the moral equivalent of Jim Crow. It does not deserve respect."
Richard Stallman, Free as in Freedom, Richard Stallman's Crusade for Free Software: O'Reilly (2002) at p. 72
And what, exactly, are SCO trying to imply with this? In case they didn't notice, he said "friend", not "multi-billion-dollar corporation". I fail to see how it has any bearing on their case against IBM.
"The whole GNU project is really one big hack. It's one big act of subversive playful cleverness..."
Richard Stallman, Revolution OS (DVD)
Now, this one's just plain old misrepresentation (intentional or not). RMS's use of the word "hack" here corresponds to the second sentence - i.e., a clever piece of work. It would seem that SCO thought he meant it to imply a giant tangle of spaghetti code.
Bruce Perens
"This is becoming a tradition. I go there and break the law every year in the name of free speech."
Bruce Perens, explaining his plan to demonstrate how to modify DVD technology to attendees of an Open Source convention.
Again, I fail to see how DVD copy protection has any bearing whatsoever on SCO's case against IBM.
"We have to remember that Linux is a follow-on to UNIX. It's not just a UNIX clone. It's actually a UNIX successor."
Bruce Perens, mpulse magazine, December 2001.
This is a bit of a strange quote to put up - perhaps they're trying to imply that Bruce was saying that Linux builds on UNIX, but I suspect what they really wanted emphasize was the "... a UNIX clone" line; i.e., while it might currently be more than a clone of UNIX, it is at the core just a UNIX copy, perhaps in more ways than one.
Summary: Yet more FUD. Thanks, SCO, now please disappear off the face of the Earth.
-S
Actually, not quite true. Assembly code is usually considered to mean the mnemonic code intended for human (well, semi-human) consumption, whereas machine language is the actual binary opcodes and arguments.
So, he's sort of right - you can decompile any binary program to assembler. It's usually called disassembly rather than decompilation, though.
I'm suprised they didn't try to pull this feat on Emacs first though.
Too late, someone's already done it... comes with remote file playback as well.
EoE was originally supposed to be 25/26, but Anno's lack of cash forced him to give that up. After the fans 'objected' to the released versions of 25/26, Anno got more funding that allowed him to create his intended ending as EoE.
Heh... I wouldn't say I've watched Evangelion that much - I caught it during the second broadcast on TV Tokyo, and I've got the DVDs, but I've only watched them a couple of times... or maybe three... OK, I've watched it lots of times. Still doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about, though ;)
I gave my take on the differences between Gendo's and Seele's aims in another post:
5) The battle between NERV (Gendo) and Seele
Gendo's aim was to be rejoined with Yui. Seele's aim was not to enter Eva01 and drift through the universe for eternity, but rather to be the only humans to ascend to the godhood that unification offered - this is stated in the first half of EoE, where Seele say 'there is no need for us to ride in the Ark of Eva'. In order to do this, presumably they needed to control Adam, Lilith or Eva01 - all of which NERV had.
Gendo's stated motive is to produce a perfect, eternal Man from the unification of humanity and Eva01 or Lilith (Eva01 was produced from Lilith, just as humanity was). We know his real motive is to be reunited with Yui, but that coincides nicely with the method required by his supposed motive.
My statement about Seele wanting to be the 'only' humans to be unified is probably inaccurate - Seele states that "death will unite God and humanity into one", and "this is a rite of passage to produce an eternal humanity" (note that this differs from the 'eternal Man' concept held to by Gendo). They place no value in creating an eternal Man from Eva01, but rather being reborn as, effectively, gods after unification through the death/rebirth process offered by Eva.
What confuses it even more, unfortunately, is the Seele leader's statement just before liquification that "this is how it should be... this is the way". I believe that Seele still thought at this point that they could achieve their aims, either because they did not fully grasp the situation (the combination of Adam, Lilith and Eva01, the reappearance of the Spear of Longines), or because they knew at that point that Gendo had failed in his attempt and they thought that this would allow them to carry out their plan. Of course, Shinji's rejection of unification ruined their plans (if their plans ever had a chance of success, which is debatable).
Either way, the main points of contention between Gendo and Seele seem to be
1) a disagreement as to the result of unification, which is a direct consequence of how the process is carried out,
and
2) the control of the components required for this to occur (Adam, Lilith, Eva01, Shinji).
Personally, I hate the explicit romanization of extended Japanese vowels with a 'u' because it makes all the non-Japanese speakers think that it should be pronounced '-dow' rather than '-doh', and "Gendoh" or "Gendoo" looks even worse, so we're even.
Remember, all of this is just speculation - Anno has never come out and said precisely what he was intending with all of this; he's stated that everything he wanted to say is in the series/movie.
***************MAJOR SPOILERS***************
That said, here's my take on each of your points:
1) Rei's sudden growth and destruction
Rei was a clone of Yui, Gendo's dead wife (possibly mixed with material from Lilith; this is suggested by Rei's remark of "I'm home" on entering Lilith). He intended for her to act as a 'guide' to lead him to Yui upon the unification of humanity. Gendo attaches Adam to his hand in order to combine Adam (either the source of the Angels, or from the same source) and Lilith (probably the source of humanity). It's not clear exactly how he intended this, as Rei rejects him at the last moment, but it appears that he intended to merge with her and then enter Lilith (although if Rei already contained some Lilith material, the merge with Lilith may not have been necessary - the location does suggest that this is what Gendo intended, though).
After Rei's rejection of Gendo, she merges with Lilith and grows. It appears that she is intended as a receptacle for the souls of all humanity, merging with Shinji (who is the 'trigger' for unification) and Eva01 (where Yui resides).
When Shinji rejects unification, this process breaks down as humanity reverts to individualism, leading to the destruction of the giant Rei.
2) Shinji and Asuka on the beach
Opinions vary a lot on this, but my concept of what happened is that after Shinji and Asuka reverted to individuals, they returned to their bodies (contraindicated by the likelihood that Asuka was torn apart by the unmanned Evas), they reformed from the remains of Rei, as she was partially Lilith, the originator of humanity (the blood-red sea may be an indicator of this, but there's a few holes in this theory as well - where did their clothes come from?), or it was simply a 'miracle' requiring suspension of disbelief.
3) Shinji's attack on Asuka
This one's a lot easier to explain - Shinji turned down unification with humanity because of Asuka's rejection of him, and his shame and anger at this lead him to attack her (his mental state is obviously not very normal). A more complicated explanation is that she's proof that people other than him exist, causing him to try to erase her. Remember, Shinji's main motive throughout the series is to avoid being hurt by others - if there are no others, he cannot be hurt.
4) Gendo's failure to merge with Yui and Eva01
When each person's body liquifies and their soul goes to join the giant Rei, they each seem to experience it as an invitation or seduction by the person they care for most. Gendo, on the other hand, loves nobody (as he admits, he doesn't believe he deserves to be loved, and thus is afraid of being hurt - just as Shinji is). Instead of being invited into unification by a loved one, he is destroyed by Eva01 (and thus Shinji) - this is Gendo experiencing what he believes he deserves. It's not clearly stated, but it seems likely that this is what prevents him from joining with the rest of humanity. It's possible that Gendo knew it wouldn't be possible for him to join humanity without the help of Rei, Lilith and Adam, and thus when Rei rejected him, he knew what awaited him.
5) The battle between NERV (Gendo) and Seele
Gendo's aim was to be rejoined with Yui. Seele's aim was not to enter Eva01 and drift through the universe for eternity, but rather to be the only humans to ascend to the godhood that unification offered - this is stated in the first half of EoE, where Seele say 'there is no need for us to ride in the Ark of Eva'. In order to do this, presumably they needed to control Adam, Lilith or Eva01 - all of which NERV had.
Hope that provides some hints...
My objection is to the use of the word "mostly", then.
I leave my sig the way it is so that I can say, "I was using Google when there were only 65,400,000 hits for 'b'!".
My apologies, I see from one of your other replies that you did understand Yui's role in EoE.
Thanks for the thoughtful response - much appreciated.
Could you give a spoiler for this? I didn't catch that. I've seen 25 & 26 many times and as far as I'd gathered, Gendou's plan went about as intended. Certainly Shinji was tripping out (as any human mind would after experiencing that), but I basically saw it was a relearning/reeducation in a "perfect" world.
If you watch closely (can't remember if it's 25 or 26), there's a very quick flash that shows Misato's death scene, as well as another that shows Ritsuko floating in the liquid around Lilith. It all seems to indicate that what was happening in the 'real world' matched EoE, but Shinji was just rejecting it all (again, a more pragmatic explanation exists - Anno had already done some of the scenes for 25/26, following the plot of EoE (which wasn't planned at the time), so he put them in the mix).
Anno had already used up almost all of his funding by the time he reached episode 23 or 24 - that's why there's so many silhouette scenes, not to mention the roughs (pencil drawings) used in place of completed scenes. He wasn't able to get more funding until the fan outcry about 25/26 convinced the production company to cough up some more money.
Refer to my earlier reply to one of your posts as to the meaning of the last two episodes. I'd just like to comment further on your portrayal of the significance of EoE.
Shinji doesn't freeze at the moment of truth; he's eventually ready to unite with all humanity, but Asuka's rejection of this causes him to choose to return to individuality. The movie doesn't show a "failed" Third Impact, just a scenario in which the uniting of humanity does not take place as Yui planned. She ends up as the only human to live for eternity (that's why you see Shinji's Eva floating off; it's carrying Yui). Rewatch it and listen carefully to Yui's "conversation" with Shinji.
**********MAJOR SPOILER for people who haven't watched EoE***********
The final scene of EoE is very ambiguous; Shinji and Asuka (and possibly all other humans except for Yui) have been reincarnated as individuals as a result of Asuka's rejection of unification with Shinji. Many people see this as an indication of Asuka's feelings for Shinji, in that she doesn't wish him to know how deep her emotions are for him. Even the last line (which, in all the subbed versions I've seen, seems to be mistranslated) is ambiguous; it was actually an adlib by the voice actress, which Anno considered to be better than the script. What Asuka says could either be taken as a further rejection of Shinji as an extension of her earlier rejection, or as an indication of a genuine dislike of him. It's a bit hard to justify the latter considering what has occurred previous to that, though. I think the ending of EoE is actually rather positive - "humans should make the effort to do get along with each other as individuals".
Anno effectively sucker-punched his audience by pulling them in with promises of good old giant-robo action, and then taking a left turn into introspective otaku hell once he had them hooked. Not really fluff... more sort of bait.
Please note that Gendo didn't cheat on his wife - he didn't hook up with Ritsuko's mother, and then Ritsuko, until after she was dead (and even then he was only doing it to be rejoined with his wife).
You were misled. The series end was the part where Anno screwed over the fans by not trying (he'd run out of funding by that point); the movie was the part where he told the fans to get a life.