I think that it shouldn't be illegal. No I'm not condoning cracking or virii or anything that is "damaging"
I'm just saying that the modern day script kiddie (even though he's like 30...) is in a symbiotic relationship with computer users (and that term is loosely used here).
We on the other hand (to clarify "computer users") are above the standard issue computer user. So I say let the script kiddies live in peace. Of course, the arguments will be made, but like yesterday's link to the computer humor page showed, owning a computer involves responsibility.
I really wish that people would take the responsibility of learning about their new machine, but considering the total number of VCRs flashing 12:00, i'm asking too much? No, because some people just don't need to "program their VCRs" to tape what they want to watch.
However, not meaning to offend any tech support folks, the computer is quite more complicated and those of us who "know what we're doing" with computers wish the idiots would leave us alone. Techies probably agree they'd rather that their job was obsolete than have to listen to the proverbial cup holder users.
Finally, if the supposed method of trashing his computer is true (by removing the processor), then I really, I mean REALLY question this guy's knowledge of computers.
ESR's comments here truly outdo the negative attitude seen following the RHAT IPO. In fact while taken in comparison with suck.com's article a few days back, it shows how the community is (or at least should be) reacting to the IPO vs. how the rest of the world views what occurred in the community during the past 2 weeks.
He concisely addresses the whole "shareholder demands" argument by showing that these publicly owned companies are seeing that the advantage in adding to the unix codebase via the linux community.
I argued the other day (in response to the suck article) that shareholders outside of the community don't mean squat in the matter of development. And this is precisely due to the way that linux evolves. However, I do believe that shareholders within the community now realize the importance of their contributions since it breaks down monetarily.
Finally, I believe that the end result, once we've looked past the IPO, will be more of the same. And this is good. The group that did not get the letter will still (hopefully) continue to contribute. Some naysayers say the contributions will be due to the promise of tomorrow's IPO and this may very well be the case for some. But I say the contributions will continue since people enjoy contributing.
If RedHat or any of the other companies must develop something to meet the demands of shareholders, then the product must also meet the demands of the community for two reasons.
1. It must be useful for the community for our own reasons or adoption will not occur, causing the doomed fragment to be weeded from the standard Linux distribution.
2. It must be well developed within the community or someone will be compelled to develop something else to compete. And the competing project may indeed have an advantage simply due to the "anti-establishment" vibes that are prevalent within our group.
Well, I'm glad to see another article in which I can agree with ESR. Sometimes they seem far and few between.
Does it look like the author has been reading every link/. publishes and bookmarking it in case it makes a good story?
The problem I've seen with the "Linux is dead movement" is that they seem to forget that sure the stockholders want something, some return, some new thing, but that's Red Hat's problem, not the Community's problem.
Now, I'm not suggesting fragmentation. I'm suggesting what simply seems to be how it's always worked pre- and post-RHAT era. When the Linux users need something, they post to the cola, wait for a response, get none, and do it themselves. None of this stockholder BS. It's how the projects get started.
What I'm really trying to point out is that as some of you are now shareholders, your work helps you earn money (that's what the Letter was about, not selling your soul), for those shareholders who aren't coders, users or even "geeks" if Red Hat doesn't perform, well tough! We do it our way. There is no board of directors, no COO, no managers to look over our shoulders and provide projects. There is only a lack of a service we want that provides us with the latest project.
To the investors that aren't Community, you should have read the fine print of the deal. To the investors in the Community, you earn when you produce. To the rest of the Community, it's still about love of Linux.
The naysayers predict doom and gloom, but we know we're different. A person doesn't win a race by watching who's nipping at his heels. Likewise, world domination won't happen if we let ourselves be overcome with FUD from the money men.
> Restart the computer.. even on good size HDs, the scandisk program will take about 5 minutes to get through.
I think the most amusing aspect of Scandisk is that Micro$oft has the balls to tell you that:
"To avoid seeing this message again, always shut down the computer properly using the Shut Down option in the Start Menu."
You know, for all the times I've seen that, I'm ready to state that I'd love to shut down the computer properly at least once in my life, but I can't quite seem to get the thing to let me. Must be a problem with the operating system...
> Nothing is more useless, imho, than the Windows95 keys, which seem to serve the unique purpose of making the spacebar 3 inches long.
Actually, they have another purpose besides one of those 3-inch spacebars, you also get a nice annoyance factor when you hit one of them instead of Ctrl when you're playing some Quake. DAMN, you're back in windoze.
Yeah, the brain is a most beautiful thing, whether viewed in OS sense or not. Hmmm... Imagining a GPL'ed BrainOS, would the OS only be useful by the donor brains? Would it reach (or remain) cognizance of self and thus would it need more donor brains from within the community? Would it prove personality as an extension of the brain or an extension of surroundings?
Thus, would it get too big and acquire an ego?
I like the idea of a brainOS, but I think that only one primary developer can ever be responsible for your perfect OS. That of course is the owner of the brain. Many of you would find my brain unbearable to work with, and likewise I wouldn't particularly like to have your brain sitting on my desktop.
As a final note, read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein. Not really about open-source brainiac computers, but it does have a nice touch with a self aware computer.
While reading, I've noticed a few threads following the idea of a perfect OS. I like these kinds of arguments because they're purely theory.
What would a perfect OS be capable of? IMO a perfect OS would be reliable (like many of the Free Unices), would be capable of doing the task at hand well, and have a general intuition about it. That's why the Open Source model is ideal.
Of course now we look at Linux in comparison. I'm going to argue that once it can meet the simple criteria above, it becomes perfect. Of course perfection then is subjective.
For some in the Linux community, I'm willing to argue that developing Linux, "being cool" or "bleeding edge", or whatever has been said or will be said is inaccurate. In certain cases, Linux is already the perfect OS. Like I said, it's subjective, so I'm not going to detail them, I'm just willing to say that a Grand Unified Perfect OS, an end-all be-all is not the answer.
If I have an OS that lets me pick and choose what I need in the END so it can BE what it's meant for, then isn't that already the end-all be-all?
I will probably join a flock or Hurd when the time comes, but I will probably also keep a box or two dedicated to their task using whatever OS happens to be on it.
The Linux community is based on more than bleeding edge, but bleeding edge will always have a special place in the heart. As such, today's Linux community will still use Linux years from now, if only for that claim that can be made to your grandchild that you had a part in this. We faced up against a Bad OS in general (perfect OS for some, so I'm bypassing the argument), gave the world a better OS (Linux) and continued giving (other projects). Maybe that's why the Microserfs who have actually converted to the Redmond Religion do it. They have such a stake in it.
In the end, searching for a Grand Unified Perfect OS is pointless. It's snark hunting. The Grand Unified Perfect OS cannot be, because people will always have needs individual to themselves. That's what the custom installation of Linux allows me, that's why MS fails me. As long as Linux can do this, someone will always find a need for it. Bleeding Edge or not.
Jon has redeemed himself with this episode. I was getting tired of the "End of [put a name here] Era" stories.
I'm quite shocked by this story, considering that the mother herself was there to provide consent.
My post is more towards a problem with a solution. As Jon noted in his opening, the fight against Columbine has turned toward this increase of "religious messages" (i.e. 10 Commandments in school) and deliberate fascism sponsored by our Commander in Chief. Who knew that the Soviets won the Cold War? We may have forced them into an unresolvable depression, but their politics have become an acceptable practice in America.
But on to my post...
I live in Texas, and when I was 16, I had an opportunity to attend a program called the Texas Governor's Honors Program. I've stayed in contact with many of my fellow scholars from this program (and the offshoot Academy program). Many of us identified with the stories of the various school shooters as far as the ridicule and repression from our fellow students. But those feelings subsided after attending the Honors Program. This was truly a good program, that took time to recognize our value and provide an atmosphere that allowed us to actually feel happy about who we are.
Unfortunately, I say "was a good program" not because it is 6 years past, but because the Governor (and Presidential candidate) George Bush Jr. has cut funding for his program. This program was begun many years ago before he was put in office. I'm writing today to say that the advocacy Jon appears ready to present is only part of a campaign that includes allowing politicians to know that programs which are truly useful and helpful to the egos of "geeks" who fit their profiling methods are being cut while ridiculous answers are provided. To serve the public, they must be in touch with the public. And it seems that for this ball, they've gone on to drop it for more ridiculous solutions.
If you read this and are in any way affiliated with this program or one like this, if you are news media looking for actual dirt on Bush and his lack of issues, if you are Jon Katz looking for another advocacy issue, or if you just want to help stop the madness of our politicians, I implore you to speak out.
The 10 Commandments won't help anyone if they don't even begin to value themselves. And most "geeks" (as determined by political profiling) can tell the difference between coloring animated paper cutout figures and flesh and blood humans.
The answer is simple, I won't value you if I don't even value myself.
Hmm, wonder if he picked up the fact about plugging wires in somewhere?
Now a final statement. How many wires are attached to a console game system on average? Kids from age 3 are working these systems today, and I'm going to bet that they might have to reconnect wires at times. Wow a whole slew of genii! Actually, have you ever tried to put the wrong block in the wrong hole? Most of them don't fit, and those that do get stuck. But show the kid once how the system is configured, and s/he will be able to recreate the scene.
I'm sorry if my lack of amazement for the kid bothers you, but hacking is about productiveness. The kid showed no productivity in his wiring of the truck. He holds no higher understanding about the truck as he had before the "hotwiring". Thus he hacked nothing.
>What you don't seem to understand is that it's > not the act of plugging in wires that impresses >us. It was the fact that he UNDERSTOOD THAT HE >HAD TO. He understood that this toy will not >work without juice. The battery has juice. One >gets juice from the battery to the toy by >plugging in wires. The wires are hidden. I have >to find those hidden wires and plug them in to >get juice from the battery to the toy.
Alright in that vein, we are to believe that six year olds are not capable of understanding the basics of electricity. Well, that might have flown for truth when I was younger, but we're dealing with a plugged in society these days. The fact that kids are able to mimic gestures such as plugging in a wire does not impress me.
>In what fucking fantasy world did you grow up? >Most of us who grew up to become hackers didn't >have rich parents to get us access to computers >when we were 6 (yes, once upon a time personal >computers were expensive). You're not only >showing your age, but you've just shown your >immaturity. When I was 6 years old the only >computers in the school were in the office. Most >people didn't know that a personal computer was >when I was 6. I got my first computer when I was >8. I used to write goofy little programs on it >in basic. It was my goal to try to create an >Eliza type program (way before 'Eliza") but >after a few hours I'd screw off and play with my >Atari or go to the park to squeeze girls' butts.
>Before we had computers we hacked just about >everything else, our toys, our radios, TVs, you >name whatever else. The hacker spirit has >nothing to do with computers. It has to do with >curiosity, exploration and ingenuity. If you >think hacking is just about bytes, bits, >computers, and programming then you're not >nearly as much of a hacker as you think you are.
Now as far as your flame bait goes, I'll bite. Wow, you are 3 years older than me. How do I figure? Because I hacked my radio (an old single speaker tape player and AM/FM thing) when the thing broke. I hacked my walkie talkies and found out how to make my voice control my radio controlled car. You want to flame, you better know your target.
Btw, my parents weren't rich. My dad had a computer not made by IBM or Apple. I used CP/M. You are right, computers were and are expensive. That's probably why I used that until 1989. It's only now, another 10 years later that my dad upgraded from his 386. I used a 486 until last year (a graduation present from my H.S. graduation in 1994). I figured I better get a better one before I entered the industry.
I'm bothered by the fact that half the replies I read about this are still amazed that a six year old could do this.
Let's consider that at six, children are entering first grade. They are expected to be able to do things that are simple tasks. Plugging a wire into a receptacle is a simple task.
This kid was no prodigy. Most hackers will attest (at least those who had the benefit of a nearby computer) that at six, they were doing simple toy programs in BASIC considering that was the language available. We all know programming these programs requires simple logic. I was throwing IF-THEN statements into my programs at six. The kid simply did this in engineering terms.
Get over the fact that kids are smarter than they let on.
The only amazing aspect of this story lies in the incompetence of the daycare and the store next to it, as well as the fact that (I'm assuming) the kid wasn't hurt. We all played Pole Position as kids, so his driving isn't surprising. What is surprising is that no one else on the road hit him, considering that adults tend to be far worse drivers than kids. You have seen them try to play those video games, haven't you?
The ghosts didn't run patterns, they moved according to where you were (and each ghost had it's own personality), but there was no randomness to their movements, so if you did exactly the same thing on a certain level, the ghosts did exactly the same thing.
On later versions, they added in some randomness as well as the ai, it made the games harder......
Well then the question is begged: Which type of machine was he on? Was it a first edition that had little to no AI, or was it a newer machine that would have made his 6 hours living hell? Albeit playing Pac-Man for 6 hours (new or old version) would seem a little extreme (and close to hellish) to most.
...doesn't matter. I want to see the video tape so I can see the game and be able to figure out if pac-man has any ai built in or if it is truly patterns throughout the total group of boards.
If this flies I am going out and start my own web site, and call it Slashdit, complete with exact copies of the page layout, news stories and everything.
And there would be nothing wrong with that. If you read the fine print, Rob's open sourced ('scusí if I got the wrong term in here, been a while since I read the fine print) this site and you are free to do that. Go to old articles and search for Fishdot. That's right Fishdot!
I forget the exact address, so I'm not linking there. But the point is, I can modify two lines of code for the GIMP and release it cause the license says so.
Coca-Cola would have a lawsuit, because they own the trademark to the curvy bottle and the red button with the curvy bottle on it. Apple might or might not have trademarked the look of iMac, but more than likely if the paper is in the system, then they've got this one in the bag.
Now, back to Slashdit... If you do make it, at least have the decency to host it on a server that can handle the traffic, because I have a feeling that Slashdot can always handle another mirror. And it would be a damn shame if Slashdit was always down because it couldn't handle the load.
in the reply by ESR he states "we'd have gotten where we are now five or ten years sooner and OSI would have been completely unnecessary (and I could be writing code, which I'd much rather be doing than this...)."
I can't help but think that he's not sincere. I've heard that whine many times in the past year while watching the various three-lettered ones bicker over terms. Sure, it is necessary for someone to "evangelize the mission", but ESR took that lock, stock, and barrel.
If he wanted to code, he would. Yes, I read "Take my job" and a good amount of the other articles appearing in the Jargon. But then again ESR forgot something.
I'm fairly certain that he's nowhere near being the only person involved with OSI to go to companies to start their OSS strategy. Otherwise we'd be moving at snails' pace because only one man would be doing the work with all these companies.
Thus, there are other people already doing the important work! My point of this argument is that if he just wanted to code he should "Shut Up and Sit Down To Code."
This response appears to be more pleasant than I have become accustomed to seeing by the three-letter giants of the hacking crowd. Are we seeing the beginning of a new phase of the total movement?
One can only hope.
I am glad though that RMS does represent the hacker community, simply due to his intelligence. However abrasive he may have been or will be overall will not remove that very important quality required for the development and evangelism of Free Software. Funny that my roommate and I were just discussing an annoying person we just met at a party this weekend. She was fairly intelligent, but persistently annoying. We (my roommate and I) came to an agreement that these two qualities are not necessarily dependent on each other. But it's nice when they are in congruence.
Thanks for the info. I haven't played with digital sound editing, but I am aware of the loss involved with pulling voice from music.
Conceivably though, if I could get to tinkering (which if I took the time to look at whether any of the linux *amp apps are gpled, or otherwise open), I could write something that would let me select the exact frequencies of the artist's voice to reduce the loss involved.
More than likely, Frankel, et al. are named as defendants in this case. Thus, they had to get lawyers. Probably what will happen is that Frankel&Co. will motion for removal of defense and replace his current lawyer(s) with AOL certified lawyers with AOL paying the bottom line. Then, it will be up to the old US system to figure out the verdict.
If it's against Nullsoft, more than likely they'll only pay pennies in comparison to AOL's worth, because it's arguable that this acquisition won't affect the ruling (shouldn't in a perfect world, but it does cause the eyes to go green). But, then again if it's in favor of Nullsoft, the costs for defense are covered by AOL.
One last thing worth mentioning. No one even knows if that above scenario was part of the acquisition. Might be that Frankel&Co. have to handle that themselves without the big boys involved.
This is what pisses ESR off the most. Windoze users who think that open source == shareware.
If WinAmp was OSS, I'd probably be able to split the music and voice frequencies into to mp3 files and use the voice samples I've been wanting to use with Acid DJ. I would just go in tinker with code, and press a play/record combo that lets me do that. Anyone actually know if there is something like this, btw?
Anyhow, most every cool app for ms operating systems is not and never will be oss. They do it all for the money.
Most every cool development tool is oss, cause us geeks got smart and use a real os to do things with.
Anyhow, as a dual booter, I will say that I have felt no intrusion with my icq, and furthermore don't expect it from winamp. Aol may have all of the info that I choose to give them through icq, but they don't know everything about me. Same goes for winamp. Users will recall that since 2.08 or so, you've had to enter in vague details about you for demographic? purposes.
Who cares, you're as anonymous as you choose to be. There are tools out there. That's why I wish people would just quit bitching about all of this and sit back and say hmmm, and get back to hacking their l-boxes.
>Ye gods. Get a grip. Now redheads are an oppresed group?
Not what I meant by it. But allow me to clarify.
Here we have quiet, little Jason. Sits alone at lunch, reading a book, eating the packed lunch mom made this morning. No one bothers him, but then again no one comes to sit with him. Jason doesn't stand out.
Here we have quiet, little Mike. Sits alone at lunch, reading a book, eating the packed lunch mom made this morning. Someone sees him being weird (oh my god, people still read books, gasp), and comes by to harass him. Mike stands out not by his actions but simply by looking different. He has red hair.
Now, if Mike had been with the "in crowd" he wouldn't have been picked on, but he decided that he liked to learn and read and do other "nerdish" things. People already held a small bias because red hair FORCES you to stick out like a sore thumb. Now, God forbid, Mike isn't even trying to fit in. Egads, indeed!
I'm sorry to say this, but apparently, one of the first decisions we make about people today is still based on appearance. Mike could have been well groomed, nothing in particular to make him stick out (no strange haircut, no strange clothing, no strange anything), but still his red hair labels him as different as someone who has black skin or is overweight.
People discriminate.
I've never claimed oppression due to my red hair, and now that I've gotten older and past the high school phase, no one really ever mentions it, unless they're trying to relate who to see about a computer problem, "Yeah, go see Mike, you know the guy with the red hair." However, I've been picked out of a herd of nerds (hehe) simply because I was the "strangest" looking one. That's sad, because WE ALL know how strange some of our friends look like.
I am NOT oppressed because I don't allow it. (I'm am NOT SUGGESTING that victims allow their attackers to do such, I am just saying that some people do not stand up against oppression) I revel in my difference. I see maybe three other red haired men in any given week. Redheads altogether account for less than 5% of the whole worlds population. I AM unique. I love it.
It's just a shame that I was picked on more readily due to my own genetic appearance and my own nature to desire knowledge. Redheads can all tell you that enduring public school is the worst part of living as a redhead. I not only endured the monikers reserved for geeks, but also the monikers for redheads. (yeah, they're not creative, but what do you expect from people who can't figure out how to harass you properly with intelligence?) To this day, only one of those redheaded nicknames has been answered to: Duracell. That was creativity! Duracell batteries are the coppertop. I refuse to answer to anything but my given name. And when people yell out "Hey, red!", I don't even acknowledge that I heard.
I don't want to say that any of the other harassment was solely attributable to my hair, but I know that the names were. But then once people get to know me, they make fun of me for more appropriate reasons like my intelligence.
Slashdot Mirror
I think that it shouldn't be illegal. No I'm not condoning cracking or virii or anything that is "damaging"
I'm just saying that the modern day script kiddie (even though he's like 30...) is in a symbiotic relationship with computer users (and that term is loosely used here).
We on the other hand (to clarify "computer users") are above the standard issue computer user. So I say let the script kiddies live in peace. Of course, the arguments will be made, but like yesterday's link to the computer humor page showed, owning a computer involves responsibility.
I really wish that people would take the responsibility of learning about their new machine, but considering the total number of VCRs flashing 12:00, i'm asking too much? No, because some people just don't need to "program their VCRs" to tape what they want to watch.
However, not meaning to offend any tech support folks, the computer is quite more complicated and those of us who "know what we're doing" with computers wish the idiots would leave us alone. Techies probably agree they'd rather that their job was obsolete than have to listen to the proverbial cup holder users.
Finally, if the supposed method of trashing his computer is true (by removing the processor), then I really, I mean REALLY question this guy's knowledge of computers.
ESR's comments here truly outdo the negative attitude seen following the RHAT IPO. In fact while taken in comparison with suck.com's article a few days back, it shows how the community is (or at least should be) reacting to the IPO vs. how the rest of the world views what occurred in the community during the past 2 weeks.
He concisely addresses the whole "shareholder demands" argument by showing that these publicly owned companies are seeing that the advantage in adding to the unix codebase via the linux community.
I argued the other day (in response to the suck article) that shareholders outside of the community don't mean squat in the matter of development. And this is precisely due to the way that linux evolves. However, I do believe that shareholders within the community now realize the importance of their contributions since it breaks down monetarily.
Finally, I believe that the end result, once we've looked past the IPO, will be more of the same. And this is good. The group that did not get the letter will still (hopefully) continue to contribute. Some naysayers say the contributions will be due to the promise of tomorrow's IPO and this may very well be the case for some. But I say the contributions will continue since people enjoy contributing.
If RedHat or any of the other companies must develop something to meet the demands of shareholders, then the product must also meet the demands of the community for two reasons.
1. It must be useful for the community for our own reasons or adoption will not occur, causing the doomed fragment to be weeded from the standard Linux distribution.
2. It must be well developed within the community or someone will be compelled to develop something else to compete. And the competing project may indeed have an advantage simply due to the "anti-establishment" vibes that are prevalent within our group.
Well, I'm glad to see another article in which I can agree with ESR. Sometimes they seem far and few between.
And that's my whole take on things.
Does it look like the author has been reading every link /. publishes and bookmarking it in case it makes a good story?
The problem I've seen with the "Linux is dead movement" is that they seem to forget that sure the stockholders want something, some return, some new thing, but that's Red Hat's problem, not the Community's problem.
Now, I'm not suggesting fragmentation. I'm suggesting what simply seems to be how it's always worked pre- and post-RHAT era. When the Linux users need something, they post to the cola, wait for a response, get none, and do it themselves. None of this stockholder BS. It's how the projects get started.
What I'm really trying to point out is that as some of you are now shareholders, your work helps you earn money (that's what the Letter was about, not selling your soul), for those shareholders who aren't coders, users or even "geeks" if Red Hat doesn't perform, well tough! We do it our way. There is no board of directors, no COO, no managers to look over our shoulders and provide projects. There is only a lack of a service we want that provides us with the latest project.
To the investors that aren't Community, you should have read the fine print of the deal. To the investors in the Community, you earn when you produce. To the rest of the Community, it's still about love of Linux.
The naysayers predict doom and gloom, but we know we're different. A person doesn't win a race by watching who's nipping at his heels. Likewise, world domination won't happen if we let ourselves be overcome with FUD from the money men.
> Restart the computer.. even on good size HDs, the scandisk program will take about 5 minutes to get through.
I think the most amusing aspect of Scandisk is that Micro$oft has the balls to tell you that:
"To avoid seeing this message again, always shut down the computer properly using the Shut Down option in the Start Menu."
You know, for all the times I've seen that, I'm ready to state that I'd love to shut down the computer properly at least once in my life, but I can't quite seem to get the thing to let me. Must be a problem with the operating system...
> Nothing is more useless, imho, than the Windows95 keys, which seem to serve the unique purpose of making the spacebar 3 inches long.
Actually, they have another purpose besides one of those 3-inch spacebars, you also get a nice annoyance factor when you hit one of them instead of Ctrl when you're playing some Quake. DAMN, you're back in windoze.
Yeah, the brain is a most beautiful thing, whether viewed in OS sense or not. Hmmm... Imagining a GPL'ed BrainOS, would the OS only be useful by the donor brains? Would it reach (or remain) cognizance of self and thus would it need more donor brains from within the community? Would it prove personality as an extension of the brain or an extension of surroundings?
Thus, would it get too big and acquire an ego?
I like the idea of a brainOS, but I think that only one primary developer can ever be responsible for your perfect OS. That of course is the owner of the brain. Many of you would find my brain unbearable to work with, and likewise I wouldn't particularly like to have your brain sitting on my desktop.
As a final note, read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein. Not really about open-source brainiac computers, but it does have a nice touch with a self aware computer.
While reading, I've noticed a few threads following the idea of a perfect OS. I like these kinds of arguments because they're purely theory.
What would a perfect OS be capable of? IMO a perfect OS would be reliable (like many of the Free Unices), would be capable of doing the task at hand well, and have a general intuition about it. That's why the Open Source model is ideal.
Of course now we look at Linux in comparison. I'm going to argue that once it can meet the simple criteria above, it becomes perfect. Of course perfection then is subjective.
For some in the Linux community, I'm willing to argue that developing Linux, "being cool" or "bleeding edge", or whatever has been said or will be said is inaccurate. In certain cases, Linux is already the perfect OS. Like I said, it's subjective, so I'm not going to detail them, I'm just willing to say that a Grand Unified Perfect OS, an end-all be-all is not the answer.
If I have an OS that lets me pick and choose what I need in the END so it can BE what it's meant for, then isn't that already the end-all be-all?
I will probably join a flock or Hurd when the time comes, but I will probably also keep a box or two dedicated to their task using whatever OS happens to be on it.
The Linux community is based on more than bleeding edge, but bleeding edge will always have a special place in the heart. As such, today's Linux community will still use Linux years from now, if only for that claim that can be made to your grandchild that you had a part in this. We faced up against a Bad OS in general (perfect OS for some, so I'm bypassing the argument), gave the world a better OS (Linux) and continued giving (other projects). Maybe that's why the Microserfs who have actually converted to the Redmond Religion do it. They have such a stake in it.
In the end, searching for a Grand Unified Perfect OS is pointless. It's snark hunting. The Grand Unified Perfect OS cannot be, because people will always have needs individual to themselves. That's what the custom installation of Linux allows me, that's why MS fails me. As long as Linux can do this, someone will always find a need for it. Bleeding Edge or not.
Unbe-FUCKING-lievable!
Oh yeah, if you're wanting to reach me, you can email ubergeek@swt.edu
I'd like to provide more information to responsible parties to get this out to the public.
Jon has redeemed himself with this episode. I was getting tired of the "End of [put a name here] Era" stories.
I'm quite shocked by this story, considering that the mother herself was there to provide consent.
My post is more towards a problem with a solution. As Jon noted in his opening, the fight against Columbine has turned toward this increase of "religious messages" (i.e. 10 Commandments in school) and deliberate fascism sponsored by our Commander in Chief. Who knew that the Soviets won the Cold War? We may have forced them into an unresolvable depression, but their politics have become an acceptable practice in America.
But on to my post...
I live in Texas, and when I was 16, I had an opportunity to attend a program called the Texas Governor's Honors Program. I've stayed in contact with many of my fellow scholars from this program (and the offshoot Academy program). Many of us identified with the stories of the various school shooters as far as the ridicule and repression from our fellow students. But those feelings subsided after attending the Honors Program. This was truly a good program, that took time to recognize our value and provide an atmosphere that allowed us to actually feel happy about who we are.
Unfortunately, I say "was a good program" not because it is 6 years past, but because the Governor (and Presidential candidate) George Bush Jr. has cut funding for his program. This program was begun many years ago before he was put in office. I'm writing today to say that the advocacy Jon appears ready to present is only part of a campaign that includes allowing politicians to know that programs which are truly useful and helpful to the egos of "geeks" who fit their profiling methods are being cut while ridiculous answers are provided. To serve the public, they must be in touch with the public. And it seems that for this ball, they've gone on to drop it for more ridiculous solutions.
If you read this and are in any way affiliated with this program or one like this, if you are news media looking for actual dirt on Bush and his lack of issues, if you are Jon Katz looking for another advocacy issue, or if you just want to help stop the madness of our politicians, I implore you to speak out.
The 10 Commandments won't help anyone if they don't even begin to value themselves. And most "geeks" (as determined by political profiling) can tell the difference between coloring animated paper cutout figures and flesh and blood humans.
The answer is simple, I won't value you if I don't even value myself.
Unless they replace the Netscape folks (PHBs) as well as the name, people will still be burned.
my two coppers
More news on the kid...
Turns out he has one of those trucks at home...
Hmm, wonder if he picked up the fact about plugging wires in somewhere?
Now a final statement. How many wires are attached to a console game system on average? Kids from age 3 are working these systems today, and I'm going to bet that they might have to reconnect wires at times. Wow a whole slew of genii! Actually, have you ever tried to put the wrong block in the wrong hole? Most of them don't fit, and those that do get stuck. But show the kid once how the system is configured, and s/he will be able to recreate the scene.
I'm sorry if my lack of amazement for the kid bothers you, but hacking is about productiveness. The kid showed no productivity in his wiring of the truck. He holds no higher understanding about the truck as he had before the "hotwiring". Thus he hacked nothing.
>What you don't seem to understand is that it's
> not the act of plugging in wires that impresses
>us. It was the fact that he UNDERSTOOD THAT HE
>HAD TO. He understood that this toy will not
>work without juice. The battery has juice. One
>gets juice from the battery to the toy by
>plugging in wires. The wires are hidden. I have
>to find those hidden wires and plug them in to
>get juice from the battery to the toy.
Alright in that vein, we are to believe that six year olds are not capable of understanding the basics of electricity. Well, that might have flown for truth when I was younger, but we're dealing with a plugged in society these days. The fact that kids are able to mimic gestures such as plugging in a wire does not impress me.
>In what fucking fantasy world did you grow up?
>Most of us who grew up to become hackers didn't
>have rich parents to get us access to computers
>when we were 6 (yes, once upon a time personal
>computers were expensive). You're not only
>showing your age, but you've just shown your
>immaturity. When I was 6 years old the only
>computers in the school were in the office. Most
>people didn't know that a personal computer was
>when I was 6. I got my first computer when I was
>8. I used to write goofy little programs on it
>in basic. It was my goal to try to create an
>Eliza type program (way before 'Eliza") but
>after a few hours I'd screw off and play with my
>Atari or go to the park to squeeze girls' butts.
>Before we had computers we hacked just about
>everything else, our toys, our radios, TVs, you
>name whatever else. The hacker spirit has
>nothing to do with computers. It has to do with
>curiosity, exploration and ingenuity. If you
>think hacking is just about bytes, bits,
>computers, and programming then you're not
>nearly as much of a hacker as you think you are.
Now as far as your flame bait goes, I'll bite. Wow, you are 3 years older than me. How do I figure? Because I hacked my radio (an old single speaker tape player and AM/FM thing) when the thing broke. I hacked my walkie talkies and found out how to make my voice control my radio controlled car. You want to flame, you better know your target.
Btw, my parents weren't rich. My dad had a computer not made by IBM or Apple. I used CP/M. You are right, computers were and are expensive. That's probably why I used that until 1989. It's only now, another 10 years later that my dad upgraded from his 386. I used a 486 until last year (a graduation present from my H.S. graduation in 1994). I figured I better get a better one before I entered the industry.
Thanks for the flame.
I'm bothered by the fact that half the replies I read about this are still amazed that a six year old could do this.
Let's consider that at six, children are entering first grade. They are expected to be able to do things that are simple tasks. Plugging a wire into a receptacle is a simple task.
This kid was no prodigy. Most hackers will attest (at least those who had the benefit of a nearby computer) that at six, they were doing simple toy programs in BASIC considering that was the language available. We all know programming these programs requires simple logic. I was throwing IF-THEN statements into my programs at six. The kid simply did this in engineering terms.
Get over the fact that kids are smarter than they let on.
The only amazing aspect of this story lies in the incompetence of the daycare and the store next to it, as well as the fact that (I'm assuming) the kid wasn't hurt. We all played Pole Position as kids, so his driving isn't surprising. What is surprising is that no one else on the road hit him, considering that adults tend to be far worse drivers than kids. You have seen them try to play those video games, haven't you?
The ghosts didn't run patterns, they moved according to where you were (and each ghost had it's own personality), but there was no randomness to their movements, so if you did exactly the same thing on a certain level, the ghosts did exactly the same thing.
On later versions, they added in some randomness as well as the ai, it made the games harder......
Well then the question is begged: Which type of machine was he on? Was it a first edition that had little to no AI, or was it a newer machine that would have made his 6 hours living hell? Albeit playing Pac-Man for 6 hours (new or old version) would seem a little extreme (and close to hellish) to most.
...doesn't matter. I want to see the video tape so I can see the game and be able to figure out if pac-man has any ai built in or if it is truly patterns throughout the total group of boards.
If this flies I am going out and start my own web site, and call it Slashdit, complete with exact copies of the page layout, news stories and everything.
And there would be nothing wrong with that. If you read the fine print, Rob's open sourced ('scusí if I got the wrong term in here, been a while since I read the fine print) this site and you are free to do that. Go to old articles and search for Fishdot. That's right Fishdot!
I forget the exact address, so I'm not linking there. But the point is, I can modify two lines of code for the GIMP and release it cause the license says so.
Coca-Cola would have a lawsuit, because they own the trademark to the curvy bottle and the red button with the curvy bottle on it. Apple might or might not have trademarked the look of iMac, but more than likely if the paper is in the system, then they've got this one in the bag.
Now, back to Slashdit... If you do make it, at least have the decency to host it on a server that can handle the traffic, because I have a feeling that Slashdot can always handle another mirror. And it would be a damn shame if Slashdit was always down because it couldn't handle the load.
But ROB I just saw a banner ad for OFFICE 2000??!!?? WTF?
I thought your ads were served up by adfu, and that we wouldn't see MS products advertised.
I'm worried.
in the reply by ESR he states "we'd have gotten where we are now five or ten years sooner and OSI would have been completely unnecessary (and I could be writing code, which I'd much rather be doing than this...)."
I can't help but think that he's not sincere. I've heard that whine many times in the past year while watching the various three-lettered ones bicker over terms. Sure, it is necessary for someone to "evangelize the mission", but ESR took that lock, stock, and barrel.
If he wanted to code, he would. Yes, I read "Take my job" and a good amount of the other articles appearing in the Jargon. But then again ESR forgot something.
I'm fairly certain that he's nowhere near being the only person involved with OSI to go to companies to start their OSS strategy. Otherwise we'd be moving at snails' pace because only one man would be doing the work with all these companies.
Thus, there are other people already doing the important work! My point of this argument is that if he just wanted to code he should "Shut Up and Sit Down To Code."
This response appears to be more pleasant than I have become accustomed to seeing by the three-letter giants of the hacking crowd. Are we seeing the beginning of a new phase of the total movement?
One can only hope.
I am glad though that RMS does represent the hacker community, simply due to his intelligence. However abrasive he may have been or will be overall will not remove that very important quality required for the development and evangelism of Free Software. Funny that my roommate and I were just discussing an annoying person we just met at a party this weekend. She was fairly intelligent, but persistently annoying. We (my roommate and I) came to an agreement that these two qualities are not necessarily dependent on each other. But it's nice when they are in congruence.
Weird Al has done it again. Just wish he'd come down into Texas on this tour. I missed his last one cause the closest he came was Kearne, Nebraska.
Thanks for the info. I haven't played with digital sound editing, but I am aware of the loss involved with pulling voice from music.
Conceivably though, if I could get to tinkering (which if I took the time to look at whether any of the linux *amp apps are gpled, or otherwise open), I could write something that would let me select the exact frequencies of the artist's voice to reduce the loss involved.
That's kind of what I am/was looking for.
More than likely, Frankel, et al. are named as defendants in this case. Thus, they had to get lawyers. Probably what will happen is that Frankel&Co. will motion for removal of defense and replace his current lawyer(s) with AOL certified lawyers with AOL paying the bottom line. Then, it will be up to the old US system to figure out the verdict.
If it's against Nullsoft, more than likely they'll only pay pennies in comparison to AOL's worth, because it's arguable that this acquisition won't affect the ruling (shouldn't in a perfect world, but it does cause the eyes to go green). But, then again if it's in favor of Nullsoft, the costs for defense are covered by AOL.
One last thing worth mentioning. No one even knows if that above scenario was part of the acquisition. Might be that Frankel&Co. have to handle that themselves without the big boys involved.
This is what pisses ESR off the most. Windoze users who think that open source == shareware.
If WinAmp was OSS, I'd probably be able to split the music and voice frequencies into to mp3 files and use the voice samples I've been wanting to use with Acid DJ. I would just go in tinker with code, and press a play/record combo that lets me do that. Anyone actually know if there is something like this, btw?
Anyhow, most every cool app for ms operating systems is not and never will be oss. They do it all for the money.
Most every cool development tool is oss, cause us geeks got smart and use a real os to do things with.
Anyhow, as a dual booter, I will say that I have felt no intrusion with my icq, and furthermore don't expect it from winamp. Aol may have all of the info that I choose to give them through icq, but they don't know everything about me. Same goes for winamp. Users will recall that since 2.08 or so, you've had to enter in vague details about you for demographic? purposes.
Who cares, you're as anonymous as you choose to be. There are tools out there. That's why I wish people would just quit bitching about all of this and sit back and say hmmm, and get back to hacking their l-boxes.
>Ye gods. Get a grip. Now redheads are an oppresed group?
Not what I meant by it. But allow me to clarify.
Here we have quiet, little Jason. Sits alone at lunch, reading a book, eating the packed lunch mom made this morning. No one bothers him, but then again no one comes to sit with him. Jason doesn't stand out.
Here we have quiet, little Mike. Sits alone at lunch, reading a book, eating the packed lunch mom made this morning. Someone sees him being weird (oh my god, people still read books, gasp), and comes by to harass him. Mike stands out not by his actions but simply by looking different. He has red hair.
Now, if Mike had been with the "in crowd" he wouldn't have been picked on, but he decided that he liked to learn and read and do other "nerdish" things. People already held a small bias because red hair FORCES you to stick out like a sore thumb. Now, God forbid, Mike isn't even trying to fit in. Egads, indeed!
I'm sorry to say this, but apparently, one of the first decisions we make about people today is still based on appearance. Mike could have been well groomed, nothing in particular to make him stick out (no strange haircut, no strange clothing, no strange anything), but still his red hair labels him as different as someone who has black skin or is overweight.
People discriminate.
I've never claimed oppression due to my red hair, and now that I've gotten older and past the high school phase, no one really ever mentions it, unless they're trying to relate who to see about a computer problem, "Yeah, go see Mike, you know the guy with the red hair." However, I've been picked out of a herd of nerds (hehe) simply because I was the "strangest" looking one. That's sad, because WE ALL know how strange some of our friends look like.
I am NOT oppressed because I don't allow it. (I'm am NOT SUGGESTING that victims allow their attackers to do such, I am just saying that some people do not stand up against oppression) I revel in my difference. I see maybe three other red haired men in any given week. Redheads altogether account for less than 5% of the whole worlds population. I AM unique. I love it.
It's just a shame that I was picked on more readily due to my own genetic appearance and my own nature to desire knowledge. Redheads can all tell you that enduring public school is the worst part of living as a redhead. I not only endured the monikers reserved for geeks, but also the monikers for redheads. (yeah, they're not creative, but what do you expect from people who can't figure out how to harass you properly with intelligence?) To this day, only one of those redheaded nicknames has been answered to: Duracell. That was creativity! Duracell batteries are the coppertop. I refuse to answer to anything but my given name. And when people yell out "Hey, red!", I don't even acknowledge that I heard.
I don't want to say that any of the other harassment was solely attributable to my hair, but I know that the names were. But then once people get to know me, they make fun of me for more appropriate reasons like my intelligence.