When have the rich, or to be more accurate the more affluent, NOT been able to purchase a premium product whether it be on an airplane, a boat or a train?
Why does that dismay you so much?
When the FAA regulates seat pitch then airline prices go up.
What is really needed is for you to recognize that the free market already provides you with the choice of a seat with greater seat pitch.
If you want more leg room, pay for it. If you are satisfied with the legroom of a standard seat, you don't have to pay the higher price.
So every seat needs to accommodate a 7' 10" man or someone who is 800lbs as well or do you admit that there are limits and having limits on seat size doesn't imply discrimination?
How is it that the airlines discriminate against people who are 6' 1" when they never see you when you purchase a ticket? Do they pull out a tape measure at the gate, measure you and discriminate against you there? Or is it not a case of discrimination at all but merely you don't LIKE the product they are selling and what a DIFFERENT product they are selling (Economy Plus) but believe you should be able to have that premium product for the same price?
I think what the 1960's taught us is that not everything is discrimination just because some things are.
For example, if you have a king size appetite to go with your king size frame you still get the same size hamburger at McDonalds for your $2.49 as a petite woman does. That isn't due to discrimination but in fact is due to McDonald's NOT discriminating on the basis of size.
Here's a tip, if you aren't in first class and are larger than 5' 9" and are anything more than average in weight you will not fit "comfortably" in your seat. You will be touching the person next to you and you won't characterize your seat as comfortable or the experience of flying as "fun". It is a means of transportation that is pretty fast and relatively inexpensive. It isn't an adventure, fun or comfortable. It won't at all be like sitting on your couch or being in your recliner. You'll be glad when the flight is over and won't say "Damn, I wish I could just stay in this seat another 5 hours"
If that is too much to bear then pay the premium for a premium seat pitch seat. Get on the plane early and sit in a regular seat with the seat in front of you full reclined, then sit in your premium seat and compare the difference and price premium. Then make your choice.
Since all airplanes already have seats that don't recline wouldn't it be easier for people to simply pick a seat behind one of those seats if it is important enough to them?
Where do they enforce that penalty? I'm 6' tall and nobody from the airline has ever told me that I'm going to be penalized and forced to buy a more expensive ticket.
I usually sit in Economy Plus, thanks to my frequent travel on a single airline but I've traveled in regular coach seats for 5 hr flights and while certainly not as roomy I didn't feel like I'd suffered. I put on my headphones, reclined my seat and went to sleep. I'd recommend you do the same on your next flight instead of stewing the entire flight about some perceived injustice the airline was imposing on you.
It apparently is tolerable enough as it absolutely doesn't force most passengers to purchase the premium seating as most passengers do not purchase the premium product. People choose the lower price ticket overwhelmingly.
Simply stated, you can have higher ticket prices for everyone, burn more fuel per passenger mile and give everyone 35" seat pitch or you can give people a choice, more money for more room or less money for less room. Choice is good.
If you want a certain degree of comfort on an airline, purchase it.
If you want to complain that you bought a cheap seat and aren't getting a free glass of wine like the people in the front of the plane, feel free, just don't expect sympathy.
If you feel like you might have the urge to leave a plane in the air I'd suggest you stick to ground transportation, flying is no place for people who get claustrophobic or have anxiety issues.
No airline charges people more because they are taller than average.
Most airlines do charge a premium for premium seating.
But life is full of unfairness. Some people are born tall and beautiful and get to have more sex with other beautiful people and others are born short and dumpy and tend to have less sex with beautiful people but don't have to buy their clothes at the Big and Tall store and fit better on standard couches and airline seats.
The airlines aren't the great equalizers for tall people who have trouble fitting in things. If you need more room, pay for it.
Something better is an upgrade.
Apple is rumored to be coming out with an iPhone 6 in two screen sizes. The larger screen is a premium price for the premium feature. As best I know they will not be selling the larger screen version at the same price as the smaller screen version to people who are vision impaired.
I'm not sure who you are to determine that any extra legroom I purchase is or is not "actually need(ed)". If I want it I pay for it ($$$, FF points, my loyalty). I'd suggest you do the same.
The last thing we thing is airline people at the gate measuring our femurs to determine if we "need" the extra legroom and then collecting or not collecting a fee based on femur length. It's a plane, you'll be on it for a few hours, either suck it up for those few hours in the cheap seat you bought in the back or pay up to move up to a better seat.
Having MORE legroom is a premium feature whether in in a car or an airplane.
I'm sorry you don't fit in a standard seat, can't wear standard shoes or can't ride some ride at the amusement park because you exceed their weight limit.
Life is full of unfairness. Some people end up 6' 7" and some people end up with spinal bifida.
All domestic airline seats are adequate for the (as you put it) "normal human being" as evidenced by the hundreds of millions of quite normal passengers that travel by air every year. I sympathize with you having to squeeze into a seat or having difficulty finding clothes in the style you like that fit your size. I also sympathize with you for not being able to fit in a Renault Twingo and having to purchase a more expensive car that fits you better. I even sympathize with you having to buy two Big Macs instead of the one a smaller person would be satisfied with for a meal.
But you'll just have to accept that you are above average in height, consume more calories, need a larger car and will find standard dining room chair heights to be uncomfortable and can't find clothes at all the same stores a more average height person could. You might have to buy custom furniture and you might find buying a premium seat on an airline is worth the additional cost.
If the airlines can't charge more for premium seating than they wouldn't have any.
If the airlines have to make the seat pitch greater for all their seats than everyone pays more for a ticket as opposed to just those who are beyond the 90 percentile for height. You might find that to be "fair", I find that to be an economic waste.
Premium seats cost extra, your choice whether you want to take on the responsibility of being able to open the emergency door. If you don't, don't sit there. I prefer to sit there and am quite delighted to take on the responsibility of getting my ass off the plane first in the event of an emergency.
The FAA rule, which USmairlines adhere to, is you have to be 15 or older to occupy an exit row seat.
They aren't off-limits for minors. Not at United, not at American, not at Delta.
Other than prisoners being transported and perhaps children I'm not aware of anyone who is forced to travel by air or sit in a standard pitch economy seat.
If you don't like eating dog food, you can pay up better food.
If there was a business model for charging people for the ability to recline I'm certain the airlines would do so.
Economy Plus/Choice/Whatever seating makes business sense.
You confuse the airline pricing model with having some correlation of price to pitch. The price for a seat can vary widely even in the same cabin class. The person next to you could have paid 1/2 what you paid or twice as much.
Most Economy Plus seats are used as an incentive to keep an airline's most frequent travelers loyal to that airline.
If you don't want to pay for the extra legroom than simply don't pay and recognize that you don't think the extra legroom isn't worth the price but others do.
If it can't be safely used the airline would be forced to disable it. They do so for seats in front of an exit row. For all other seats the recline function can be safely used.
If you don't want someone reclining in front of you then choose on of the 12 economy seats on almost every 737+ class aircraft that doesn't have a reclining seat in front of it.
That sort of attitude will get your 30" seat pitch replaced by the relative spaciousness of a 5' x 10' jail cell. You have no personal space in an airline seat, you will be sitting shoulder to shoulder with someone, literally touching in most cases. If that bothers you, find another way to travel or move up to 1st class.
You are perfectly free to swap seats with any short person you can get to agree. The problem is most of those 'short' people picked a premium seat and aren't interested in swapping you for your cheaper seat.
I pick a second exit row seat on every flight I can and if you offer to swap me your regular economy seat I'll be happy to name you a price.
Premium seat, premium price. You can pay, just like the short person did, or you can do without.
Yes, if you aren't wealthy enough you won't have all the creature comforts. In fact I understand that some people aren't wealthy enough to fly at all and have to take Greyhound. Some can't even afford Greyhound and they have to stay home.
First check: United
UA 1556 on 9/14 LAX to EWR non-stop - 5 exit row seats available right now
UA 1564 - 3 exit row seats
UA 1498 - 5 exit row seats
UA 1534 - 8 exit row seats
UA 1244 - 4 exit row, 4 bulkhead seats
UA 1043 - 3 exit row seats
That's 32 exit row seats just on United.
To assert you have to book months or even a year in advance is not credible.
That's strange, I get an extra legroom seat on virtually every flight I've ever flown on and rarely book more than a week or two in advance. Domestic and International.
Pick a flight two weeks out, any flight. Let's say LAX to EWR on 9/14/2014 (that's one week out). I'll bet there are at least 20 seats across all available flights that have extra legroom (bulkhead, exit row).
We charge passengers for a seat.
Seat 1A costs more than Seat 10A
Seat 10A costs more than Seat 22B
The 10oz bag of Doritos costs more than the 4oz. Even if you are big and need more food you'll still pay more for the 10oz bag of Doritos.
Pick your seat, pay the posted price, same as everyone else.
You can't help how tall you are but that doesn't mean a car manufacturer needs to make sure that all their cars can be comfortably driven by someone who is 7' 10" tall. You can purchase a larger car if your height requires it, expect to pay more for it.
Likewise, just because you are a really big guy with a really big appetite is no reason to demand that really big guys are entitled to a quadruple patty Big Mac for the price of a regular Big Mac.
But you are free to buy two Big Macs and a premium airline seat at a premium price.
Every flight should have a super jumbo sized seat in case an 850lb man wants to buy a seat?
Seriously?
But they do have seating that fits 99.9% of the public. First/Business, economy plus and economy.
Likewise if you don't fit in a Renault Twingo you are free to purchase a larger, more expensive Renault.
I pick my seat when booked, I check my seat after I book. I don't find the 5 minutes it takes to check-in online to be a bother at all. It reduces my stress as I then have my boarding pass, I've doubled checked my flight, my seat, my times.
But the beautiful thing is online check-in is a choice. You are absolutely free to reduce your stress level by waiting until you get to the airport to check in and I'm free to continue to stress my life out by already being checked in before I arrive at the airport.
Slashdot Mirror
When have the rich, or to be more accurate the more affluent, NOT been able to purchase a premium product whether it be on an airplane, a boat or a train? Why does that dismay you so much?
When the FAA regulates seat pitch then airline prices go up. What is really needed is for you to recognize that the free market already provides you with the choice of a seat with greater seat pitch. If you want more leg room, pay for it. If you are satisfied with the legroom of a standard seat, you don't have to pay the higher price.
So every seat needs to accommodate a 7' 10" man or someone who is 800lbs as well or do you admit that there are limits and having limits on seat size doesn't imply discrimination? How is it that the airlines discriminate against people who are 6' 1" when they never see you when you purchase a ticket? Do they pull out a tape measure at the gate, measure you and discriminate against you there? Or is it not a case of discrimination at all but merely you don't LIKE the product they are selling and what a DIFFERENT product they are selling (Economy Plus) but believe you should be able to have that premium product for the same price? I think what the 1960's taught us is that not everything is discrimination just because some things are. For example, if you have a king size appetite to go with your king size frame you still get the same size hamburger at McDonalds for your $2.49 as a petite woman does. That isn't due to discrimination but in fact is due to McDonald's NOT discriminating on the basis of size.
Here's a tip, if you aren't in first class and are larger than 5' 9" and are anything more than average in weight you will not fit "comfortably" in your seat. You will be touching the person next to you and you won't characterize your seat as comfortable or the experience of flying as "fun". It is a means of transportation that is pretty fast and relatively inexpensive. It isn't an adventure, fun or comfortable. It won't at all be like sitting on your couch or being in your recliner. You'll be glad when the flight is over and won't say "Damn, I wish I could just stay in this seat another 5 hours" If that is too much to bear then pay the premium for a premium seat pitch seat. Get on the plane early and sit in a regular seat with the seat in front of you full reclined, then sit in your premium seat and compare the difference and price premium. Then make your choice.
Since all airplanes already have seats that don't recline wouldn't it be easier for people to simply pick a seat behind one of those seats if it is important enough to them?
Where do they enforce that penalty? I'm 6' tall and nobody from the airline has ever told me that I'm going to be penalized and forced to buy a more expensive ticket. I usually sit in Economy Plus, thanks to my frequent travel on a single airline but I've traveled in regular coach seats for 5 hr flights and while certainly not as roomy I didn't feel like I'd suffered. I put on my headphones, reclined my seat and went to sleep. I'd recommend you do the same on your next flight instead of stewing the entire flight about some perceived injustice the airline was imposing on you.
It apparently is tolerable enough as it absolutely doesn't force most passengers to purchase the premium seating as most passengers do not purchase the premium product. People choose the lower price ticket overwhelmingly. Simply stated, you can have higher ticket prices for everyone, burn more fuel per passenger mile and give everyone 35" seat pitch or you can give people a choice, more money for more room or less money for less room. Choice is good.
If you want a certain degree of comfort on an airline, purchase it. If you want to complain that you bought a cheap seat and aren't getting a free glass of wine like the people in the front of the plane, feel free, just don't expect sympathy. If you feel like you might have the urge to leave a plane in the air I'd suggest you stick to ground transportation, flying is no place for people who get claustrophobic or have anxiety issues.
No airline charges people more because they are taller than average. Most airlines do charge a premium for premium seating. But life is full of unfairness. Some people are born tall and beautiful and get to have more sex with other beautiful people and others are born short and dumpy and tend to have less sex with beautiful people but don't have to buy their clothes at the Big and Tall store and fit better on standard couches and airline seats. The airlines aren't the great equalizers for tall people who have trouble fitting in things. If you need more room, pay for it.
Something better is an upgrade. Apple is rumored to be coming out with an iPhone 6 in two screen sizes. The larger screen is a premium price for the premium feature. As best I know they will not be selling the larger screen version at the same price as the smaller screen version to people who are vision impaired. I'm not sure who you are to determine that any extra legroom I purchase is or is not "actually need(ed)". If I want it I pay for it ($$$, FF points, my loyalty). I'd suggest you do the same. The last thing we thing is airline people at the gate measuring our femurs to determine if we "need" the extra legroom and then collecting or not collecting a fee based on femur length. It's a plane, you'll be on it for a few hours, either suck it up for those few hours in the cheap seat you bought in the back or pay up to move up to a better seat.
Having MORE legroom is a premium feature whether in in a car or an airplane. I'm sorry you don't fit in a standard seat, can't wear standard shoes or can't ride some ride at the amusement park because you exceed their weight limit. Life is full of unfairness. Some people end up 6' 7" and some people end up with spinal bifida. All domestic airline seats are adequate for the (as you put it) "normal human being" as evidenced by the hundreds of millions of quite normal passengers that travel by air every year. I sympathize with you having to squeeze into a seat or having difficulty finding clothes in the style you like that fit your size. I also sympathize with you for not being able to fit in a Renault Twingo and having to purchase a more expensive car that fits you better. I even sympathize with you having to buy two Big Macs instead of the one a smaller person would be satisfied with for a meal. But you'll just have to accept that you are above average in height, consume more calories, need a larger car and will find standard dining room chair heights to be uncomfortable and can't find clothes at all the same stores a more average height person could. You might have to buy custom furniture and you might find buying a premium seat on an airline is worth the additional cost. If the airlines can't charge more for premium seating than they wouldn't have any. If the airlines have to make the seat pitch greater for all their seats than everyone pays more for a ticket as opposed to just those who are beyond the 90 percentile for height. You might find that to be "fair", I find that to be an economic waste.
Premium seats cost extra, your choice whether you want to take on the responsibility of being able to open the emergency door. If you don't, don't sit there. I prefer to sit there and am quite delighted to take on the responsibility of getting my ass off the plane first in the event of an emergency.
The FAA rule, which USmairlines adhere to, is you have to be 15 or older to occupy an exit row seat. They aren't off-limits for minors. Not at United, not at American, not at Delta.
Other than prisoners being transported and perhaps children I'm not aware of anyone who is forced to travel by air or sit in a standard pitch economy seat. If you don't like eating dog food, you can pay up better food.
If there was a business model for charging people for the ability to recline I'm certain the airlines would do so. Economy Plus/Choice/Whatever seating makes business sense. You confuse the airline pricing model with having some correlation of price to pitch. The price for a seat can vary widely even in the same cabin class. The person next to you could have paid 1/2 what you paid or twice as much. Most Economy Plus seats are used as an incentive to keep an airline's most frequent travelers loyal to that airline. If you don't want to pay for the extra legroom than simply don't pay and recognize that you don't think the extra legroom isn't worth the price but others do.
If it can't be safely used the airline would be forced to disable it. They do so for seats in front of an exit row. For all other seats the recline function can be safely used. If you don't want someone reclining in front of you then choose on of the 12 economy seats on almost every 737+ class aircraft that doesn't have a reclining seat in front of it.
That sort of attitude will get your 30" seat pitch replaced by the relative spaciousness of a 5' x 10' jail cell. You have no personal space in an airline seat, you will be sitting shoulder to shoulder with someone, literally touching in most cases. If that bothers you, find another way to travel or move up to 1st class.
You are perfectly free to swap seats with any short person you can get to agree. The problem is most of those 'short' people picked a premium seat and aren't interested in swapping you for your cheaper seat. I pick a second exit row seat on every flight I can and if you offer to swap me your regular economy seat I'll be happy to name you a price. Premium seat, premium price. You can pay, just like the short person did, or you can do without. Yes, if you aren't wealthy enough you won't have all the creature comforts. In fact I understand that some people aren't wealthy enough to fly at all and have to take Greyhound. Some can't even afford Greyhound and they have to stay home.
First check: United UA 1556 on 9/14 LAX to EWR non-stop - 5 exit row seats available right now UA 1564 - 3 exit row seats UA 1498 - 5 exit row seats UA 1534 - 8 exit row seats UA 1244 - 4 exit row, 4 bulkhead seats UA 1043 - 3 exit row seats That's 32 exit row seats just on United. To assert you have to book months or even a year in advance is not credible.
That's strange, I get an extra legroom seat on virtually every flight I've ever flown on and rarely book more than a week or two in advance. Domestic and International. Pick a flight two weeks out, any flight. Let's say LAX to EWR on 9/14/2014 (that's one week out). I'll bet there are at least 20 seats across all available flights that have extra legroom (bulkhead, exit row).
We charge passengers for a seat. Seat 1A costs more than Seat 10A Seat 10A costs more than Seat 22B The 10oz bag of Doritos costs more than the 4oz. Even if you are big and need more food you'll still pay more for the 10oz bag of Doritos. Pick your seat, pay the posted price, same as everyone else.
You can't help how tall you are but that doesn't mean a car manufacturer needs to make sure that all their cars can be comfortably driven by someone who is 7' 10" tall. You can purchase a larger car if your height requires it, expect to pay more for it. Likewise, just because you are a really big guy with a really big appetite is no reason to demand that really big guys are entitled to a quadruple patty Big Mac for the price of a regular Big Mac. But you are free to buy two Big Macs and a premium airline seat at a premium price.
Every flight should have a super jumbo sized seat in case an 850lb man wants to buy a seat? Seriously? But they do have seating that fits 99.9% of the public. First/Business, economy plus and economy. Likewise if you don't fit in a Renault Twingo you are free to purchase a larger, more expensive Renault.
I don't know any airlines that charge taller people more.
I pick my seat when booked, I check my seat after I book. I don't find the 5 minutes it takes to check-in online to be a bother at all. It reduces my stress as I then have my boarding pass, I've doubled checked my flight, my seat, my times. But the beautiful thing is online check-in is a choice. You are absolutely free to reduce your stress level by waiting until you get to the airport to check in and I'm free to continue to stress my life out by already being checked in before I arrive at the airport.