Apple did some great marketing with the iphone line, but they just can't keep up with the market anymore.
Are you kidding? They're the market leader.
They weren't suing when they had the marketing edge, but now that it is gone, and the rest of the flock has exceeded them technologically, the only thing left to them is sue.
Except for the fact that they are the market leader. Name *ONE* mobile company doing better than Apple right now.
They've only sued over things they believe they own, and the courts have agreed with them. They aren't trying to stop HTC or Samsung from making their own products, but they *are* trying to stop them from making products that are too much a clone of Apple's products.
There are plenty of ways to make a multitouch phone and multitouch tablet. Apple chose their style. It's up to everyone else to choose their own as well.
By your same metric, if Exxon shut its doors, there's be "one less oil company". It's not like Exxon closing somehow dries up all the oil. The other companies would just fill in the gap.
Well the CEO of Samsung has already indicated that he'd rather not have lawsuits. "Apple is Samsung's biggest customer. [...] From our perspective, we are not entirely happy (about the litigations)". Looks like Apple could end this if they wanted to.
The problem is that Apple's complaint isn't that Samsung is using something they need to license from Apple in order to make a product, while the reverse is true. It is fully possible for Samsung to make a tablet that Apple will not sue over. Apple's complaint is that Samsung is copying their design too closely.
Samsung's complaint is, "well, we have hardware patents, and we want to use those to force Apple to let us copying their design".
Simply put, Samsung's complaints are FRAND-centric, while Apple's complaints are branding-centric.
Exactly. They won't do that because they really don't care.
And then the companies lobby to make it illegal to do that.
An imaginary fear.
But even if that fear ever becomes an actual concern, you will just have to buy hardware which supports your wishes. That's how it works for everyone. If I want to run Mac OS X, I buy a Mac (or hack one together). If I wan tho run Windows, I buy PC compatible hardware. If they come out with truly locked down PCs, if you want to run Linux, you'll have to buy Linux compatible hardware, or hack restricted hardware.
But you will always be able to buy hardware which works with Linux.
Assuming you can even run something else. On most ARM platforms this is just short of impossible, and I expect that it will be made deliberately difficult on x86 in the future.
How is that even remotely possible? There will *ALWAYS* be hardware available that will allow you to run Linux (or whatever replaces it eventually). Always, always, always.
Yes, there will be hardware with which you *can't* run Linux, but that's always been the case and also always will. So what if some tablets and PCs won't let you? There are tablets and PCs that won't let me run iOS or Mac OS X, yet I have no trouble finding ones that will.
<a bunch of mindless drivel about Linux vs Windows, even though the discussion is about Linux vs iPad>
You do realize we are talking about iPads vs netbooks running Linux, right? But even if we pretend for a second that the topic is Linux vs Mac, Linux gets its ass beat, gift-wrapped, and handed to it on a silver platter. And Linux vs Windows is still an absurd comparison, only less so. There's no wrapping paper and the tray is plastic stolen from a mall food court. The ass-whooping is the same though.
It's obvious you haven't used Linux in a while, or you haven't seen how clean and easy distributions like Ubuntu, Mint, etc. have become.
No, it's obvious that I'm not a fool who thinks that everyone's a nerd. Those things that you think are "easier" are not. They are, at *best*, more precise and you know exactly what you want and how to do it. Linux is not a "one size fits all" system. It's not even close.
It's not just my kids using it by the way, my mother in law had constant malware problems and the computer was old - I said try Ubuntu on it and if she didn't like it buy a new computer. She's been using Ubuntu now for 2 years and she doesn't really even know the difference. I didn't teach her anything, and her calls for help have gone from one every few weeks to none.
Just to be clear, all you did was say "try Ubuntu" and did absolutely nothing whatsoever to her computer and gave her absolutely zero advice or assistance?
Please, be 100% honest here, and not just another lying sack of shit like every other Linux nerd who gives a similar story that either leaves out the fact that they installed and set up the system, set up the mail and web browser and showed how to shutdown the computer, and all the person in question ever does is read email and browse the web, and has also learned to resign themselves to not being able to run any of the software that they run across but are too polite to complain about it to you *OR* you've left out the fact that the person in question is a nerd too, and has strong technical aptitude, and are just using a term like "mother-/father-in-law" to make them seem more feeble and make Linux seem all the more broadly appealing.
I'm sure many other people here have similar stories.
Yes, there are at least hundreds of nerds with similar "stories", where pertinent details have been blindly overlooked or strategically omitted in order to portray a false narrative to support the absurd notion that Linux is really the best consumer-oriented OS out there!
Anyway the point is kids in kindergarten can use Linux,
Really? All that for this point? Because I'm sure I said there are such kids in the post you were replying to. However, Linux is wholly inappropriate for general usage, be they adults, children, or the elderly, or any other age group. Linux is designed by, and for, a specific type of person. Quit trying to convert everyone to something that is unsuitable for them. Linux serves *you* very well. Why not let people use what they prefer? What's so difficult to understand about that?
and I for one would argue it's more usable than at least Windows, and without the artificial limitations of OSX.
And *that* makes you a raving lunatic. Nobody gives a shit about the "artificial limitations" of OS X, and Linux is significantly less usable than even Windows, let alone Mac OS X or iOS.
My kids use Linux. They are 3 and 5. I didn't teach them either, the watched me using it and very quickly got used to it. Kids aren't stupid, but parents/teachers who spend lots of money to give them technology that limits them are.
Not knowing how to use Linux doesn't mean you're stupid.
*Your* kids know how to use Linux (and you did teach them, by them watching you), but Linux is wholly inappropriate for a general classroom of kids that don't come from geek families.
This is crazy, as in a crazy bad value. iPad is just a toy.
It's a tool. A tool that *can* be a toy if you want it to be. I can't imagine the level of shortsightedness or prejudice that would keep one from seeing the vast educational potential of an iPad.
An $800 toy that spies on you for Apple Corp.
I'm sure they are paying much less than that for the iPad itself. And what "spying"? Is this the "crazy" you were talking about at the beginning of your post?
Instead, and for half as much, they could have given every kid something like a Dell Mini with Ubuntu.
Which would be much, MUCH worse as an educational tool than an iPad. Keyboard and trackpad? Linux? For kindergartners? Hell, forget the kids, how is the teacher supposed to know what to do with such a computer? I was wrong before, *this* has to be the "crazy" part.
1. Pay 50$ "insurance" get free iPad. 2. "Lose" iPad on eBay. 3. Get new iPad. 4. GOTO 1.
Correct, like pretty much any system whatsoever, there's the potential for someone to commit a felony. Don't you think there are measures in place to mitigate this? Should we not try something new because someone might commit fraud and theft?
The methods for operating and interacting with a PC don't fit very well in a standard teaching environment. The screens block the students' views, and the keyboard and mouse add a layer of abstraction between the student and the lesson.
The iPad, on the other hand, is essentially an infinitely reconfigurable, highly adaptable, directly manipulable slate. There's a large amount of potential here, all without many of the hurdles PCs bring to the equation.
Only time will tell, but you're right, in terms of classroom utility, iPads are completely different.
250 students will require more than 250 iPads (redundancies, spares, teacher units, etc.). They will also require cases, software, AppleCare, storage, tracking, charging stations, administration, etc.
But the real question is, why would anyone think they are "paying more for less" in the first place?
One thing I will say, sometimes you can't get people to Linux no matter how many Live Distros you run showing their really old computer can be used again at a faster speed with up to date Linux compared to an ancient copy of Windows (and is too old to run up to minute Windows).
This is the clue right there.
As a geek, you might think there's a value in running a really old computer at a faster speed with an up to date Linux. Most people will not find value in that. They would rather just use their own, trusty Windows install, or buy a whole new computer.
No one, and this bears repeating, NO ONE who isn't already familiar with Linux, or interested specifically in either the geekiness of Linux of the open ideals of Linux, will EVER switch to Linux for the sole purpose of making an aging, but still primary, desktop computer faster.
And for those that would rather just buy a new PC, that's what people make money for. To buy things.
Metro and WP7 before it were a striking change from the Windows GUI and Windows Mobile. The changes that they made were similar to the ones Apple made of getting rid of much of what makes a PC OS a PC OS.
Prior to the iPhone, MS's answer to tablets and phones was to shoe-horn in Windows. Apple was the first to make a tablet OS designed specifically *for* the tablet, and not just a PC OS with alternate input methods.
As for the Zune, it's clearly a media player UI. That Metro has that style is unsurprising, but the original Zune in no way portends Metro.
Yup, they are actually taking the lead... in the line of copiers following Apple, as usual.
So what exactly are they copying?
Apple's tablet OS design ideas.
Smartphones?
This has nothing to do with smartphones.
MS Smarthphone was already around in 2002/2003 and it was quite a success. Apple made the step in the market in 2005 with the ROKR but that was Motorola. You have to wait 2007 for the iPhone. So no, they are not copying this.
No, but WP7's redesign is a direct result of Apple's 2007 entry into the market.
Tablets? MS has been around since 2001 and please don't start stretching it with the Newton, a complete failure, as opposed to Windows CE on PDAs that was ubiquitous
Like I said, the tablet design ideas. Those tablets that have been around since 2001 simply used the standard Windows GUI. That's why they were a market failure.
As for the Newton, not sure why you seem to think it doesn't apply, since you seem to be talking about the form factors and not the designs behind them.
Someone will figure out how to attract the generic consumer at some point.
The only way this will happen is by changing Linux, not changing the message.
Android seems to be doing well.
Android isn't Linux. It merely uses a highly modified Linux kernel.
LAMP seems to be doing well (not really a consumer product, but it does have a consumer facing aspect since it is an option when purchasing web hosting, which many average people are doing today).
Exactly. Every single consumer success for Linux happens everywhere *except* the desktop.
All Linux needs is a good spokesman.
Linux's problem has absolutely nothing to do with marketing. People just simply don't give a shit about free (libre), because there's no practical value to them. And commercial operating systems aren't expensive enough to make people care about free (gratis).
What they care about is that the system works with their stuff, and is easy enough to use. Linux fails both criteria for the vast majority of consumers. Who cares if it's "better" if you can't use it?
Or, what seems to be the most likely, a wrapper around Linux that tells the user a lot in a simple snappy name. Android did that and it's worked quite well.
Right. Android was a success in no small part due to throwing out everything that makes Linux recognizable as Linux.
Slashdot Mirror
Apple did some great marketing with the iphone line, but they just can't keep up with the market anymore.
Are you kidding? They're the market leader.
They weren't suing when they had the marketing edge, but now that it is gone, and the rest of the flock has exceeded them technologically, the only thing left to them is sue.
Except for the fact that they are the market leader. Name *ONE* mobile company doing better than Apple right now.
They've only sued over things they believe they own, and the courts have agreed with them. They aren't trying to stop HTC or Samsung from making their own products, but they *are* trying to stop them from making products that are too much a clone of Apple's products.
There are plenty of ways to make a multitouch phone and multitouch tablet. Apple chose their style. It's up to everyone else to choose their own as well.
By your same metric, if Exxon shut its doors, there's be "one less oil company". It's not like Exxon closing somehow dries up all the oil. The other companies would just fill in the gap.
You're arguing semantics. Whether people misuse the term "chemical" or not, the thing they are describing is still real.
I notice a trend among the Apple fanboys.
And I've noticed a trend among nerds who seem to think anyone who has different opinions than them is a "fanboy".
Lately you guys use Apple's insane profits (i.e. the fact they ruthlessly screw as many dollars out of you fans as possible) as a positive.
Last I heard, people voluntarily purchase Apple products.
you don't see our side extolling the financial strength of Samsung or Dell or giddy about how Dell shafted us lately.
How exactly do you extoll something that isn't there?
That's what you get for using the courts to block your competitors.
Apple isn't using the courts to block their competitors. Apple is using the courts to block people from copying Apple's designs.
They are, in fact, using the courts to force their competitors to actually *compete*, instead of just *copy*.
Well the CEO of Samsung has already indicated that he'd rather not have lawsuits. "Apple is Samsung's biggest customer. [...] From our perspective, we are not entirely happy (about the litigations)". Looks like Apple could end this if they wanted to.
The problem is that Apple's complaint isn't that Samsung is using something they need to license from Apple in order to make a product, while the reverse is true. It is fully possible for Samsung to make a tablet that Apple will not sue over. Apple's complaint is that Samsung is copying their design too closely.
Samsung's complaint is, "well, we have hardware patents, and we want to use those to force Apple to let us copying their design".
Simply put, Samsung's complaints are FRAND-centric, while Apple's complaints are branding-centric.
The vast majority of people will not do that.
Exactly. They won't do that because they really don't care.
And then the companies lobby to make it illegal to do that.
An imaginary fear.
But even if that fear ever becomes an actual concern, you will just have to buy hardware which supports your wishes. That's how it works for everyone. If I want to run Mac OS X, I buy a Mac (or hack one together). If I wan tho run Windows, I buy PC compatible hardware. If they come out with truly locked down PCs, if you want to run Linux, you'll have to buy Linux compatible hardware, or hack restricted hardware.
But you will always be able to buy hardware which works with Linux.
Exceptions do not disprove generalities. Only a Sith deals in absolutes...
Metaphors, how do they work?
Assuming you can even run something else. On most ARM platforms this is just short of impossible, and I expect that it will be made deliberately difficult on x86 in the future.
How is that even remotely possible? There will *ALWAYS* be hardware available that will allow you to run Linux (or whatever replaces it eventually). Always, always, always.
Yes, there will be hardware with which you *can't* run Linux, but that's always been the case and also always will. So what if some tablets and PCs won't let you? There are tablets and PCs that won't let me run iOS or Mac OS X, yet I have no trouble finding ones that will.
You are absolutely wrong and I'll tell you why:
<a bunch of mindless drivel about Linux vs Windows, even though the discussion is about Linux vs iPad>
You do realize we are talking about iPads vs netbooks running Linux, right? But even if we pretend for a second that the topic is Linux vs Mac, Linux gets its ass beat, gift-wrapped, and handed to it on a silver platter. And Linux vs Windows is still an absurd comparison, only less so. There's no wrapping paper and the tray is plastic stolen from a mall food court. The ass-whooping is the same though.
It's obvious you haven't used Linux in a while, or you haven't seen how clean and easy distributions like Ubuntu, Mint, etc. have become.
No, it's obvious that I'm not a fool who thinks that everyone's a nerd. Those things that you think are "easier" are not. They are, at *best*, more precise and you know exactly what you want and how to do it. Linux is not a "one size fits all" system. It's not even close.
It's not just my kids using it by the way, my mother in law had constant malware problems and the computer was old - I said try Ubuntu on it and if she didn't like it buy a new computer. She's been using Ubuntu now for 2 years and she doesn't really even know the difference. I didn't teach her anything, and her calls for help have gone from one every few weeks to none.
Just to be clear, all you did was say "try Ubuntu" and did absolutely nothing whatsoever to her computer and gave her absolutely zero advice or assistance?
Please, be 100% honest here, and not just another lying sack of shit like every other Linux nerd who gives a similar story that either leaves out the fact that they installed and set up the system, set up the mail and web browser and showed how to shutdown the computer, and all the person in question ever does is read email and browse the web, and has also learned to resign themselves to not being able to run any of the software that they run across but are too polite to complain about it to you *OR* you've left out the fact that the person in question is a nerd too, and has strong technical aptitude, and are just using a term like "mother-/father-in-law" to make them seem more feeble and make Linux seem all the more broadly appealing.
I'm sure many other people here have similar stories.
Yes, there are at least hundreds of nerds with similar "stories", where pertinent details have been blindly overlooked or strategically omitted in order to portray a false narrative to support the absurd notion that Linux is really the best consumer-oriented OS out there!
Anyway the point is kids in kindergarten can use Linux,
Really? All that for this point? Because I'm sure I said there are such kids in the post you were replying to. However, Linux is wholly inappropriate for general usage, be they adults, children, or the elderly, or any other age group. Linux is designed by, and for, a specific type of person. Quit trying to convert everyone to something that is unsuitable for them. Linux serves *you* very well. Why not let people use what they prefer? What's so difficult to understand about that?
and I for one would argue it's more usable than at least Windows, and without the artificial limitations of OSX.
And *that* makes you a raving lunatic. Nobody gives a shit about the "artificial limitations" of OS X, and Linux is significantly less usable than even Windows, let alone Mac OS X or iOS.
Freedom?
Yeah, those poor children, unable to compile their own software! Or is it the lack of pornographic apps you are bothered by?
We're talking about kindergartners here. What sort of "freedom" are they missing out on? Seriously!
Functionality.
Derp!
The iPad is the most functional tablet there is, and the most functional computer for someone of that age.
Think about it, you directly manipulate the screen. What more could someone want?
OMG NO!!! Those poor children!
My kids use Linux. They are 3 and 5. I didn't teach them either, the watched me using it and very quickly got used to it. Kids aren't stupid, but parents/teachers who spend lots of money to give them technology that limits them are.
Not knowing how to use Linux doesn't mean you're stupid.
*Your* kids know how to use Linux (and you did teach them, by them watching you), but Linux is wholly inappropriate for a general classroom of kids that don't come from geek families.
This is crazy, as in a crazy bad value. iPad is just a toy.
It's a tool. A tool that *can* be a toy if you want it to be. I can't imagine the level of shortsightedness or prejudice that would keep one from seeing the vast educational potential of an iPad.
An $800 toy that spies on you for Apple Corp.
I'm sure they are paying much less than that for the iPad itself. And what "spying"? Is this the "crazy" you were talking about at the beginning of your post?
Instead, and for half as much, they could have given every kid something like a Dell Mini with Ubuntu.
Which would be much, MUCH worse as an educational tool than an iPad. Keyboard and trackpad? Linux? For kindergartners? Hell, forget the kids, how is the teacher supposed to know what to do with such a computer? I was wrong before, *this* has to be the "crazy" part.
So...
1. Pay 50$ "insurance" get free iPad.
2. "Lose" iPad on eBay.
3. Get new iPad.
4. GOTO 1.
Correct, like pretty much any system whatsoever, there's the potential for someone to commit a felony. Don't you think there are measures in place to mitigate this? Should we not try something new because someone might commit fraud and theft?
Those were PCs, these are iPads.
Completely different.
FTFY
The methods for operating and interacting with a PC don't fit very well in a standard teaching environment. The screens block the students' views, and the keyboard and mouse add a layer of abstraction between the student and the lesson.
The iPad, on the other hand, is essentially an infinitely reconfigurable, highly adaptable, directly manipulable slate. There's a large amount of potential here, all without many of the hurdles PCs bring to the equation.
Only time will tell, but you're right, in terms of classroom utility, iPads are completely different.
250 students will require more than 250 iPads (redundancies, spares, teacher units, etc.). They will also require cases, software, AppleCare, storage, tracking, charging stations, administration, etc.
But the real question is, why would anyone think they are "paying more for less" in the first place?
One thing I will say, sometimes you can't get people to Linux no matter how many Live Distros you run showing their really old computer can be used again at a faster speed with up to date Linux compared to an ancient copy of Windows (and is too old to run up to minute Windows).
This is the clue right there.
As a geek, you might think there's a value in running a really old computer at a faster speed with an up to date Linux. Most people will not find value in that. They would rather just use their own, trusty Windows install, or buy a whole new computer.
No one, and this bears repeating, NO ONE who isn't already familiar with Linux, or interested specifically in either the geekiness of Linux of the open ideals of Linux, will EVER switch to Linux for the sole purpose of making an aging, but still primary, desktop computer faster.
And for those that would rather just buy a new PC, that's what people make money for. To buy things.
Metro and WP7 before it were a striking change from the Windows GUI and Windows Mobile. The changes that they made were similar to the ones Apple made of getting rid of much of what makes a PC OS a PC OS.
Prior to the iPhone, MS's answer to tablets and phones was to shoe-horn in Windows. Apple was the first to make a tablet OS designed specifically *for* the tablet, and not just a PC OS with alternate input methods.
As for the Zune, it's clearly a media player UI. That Metro has that style is unsurprising, but the original Zune in no way portends Metro.
Yup, they are actually taking the lead... in the line of copiers following Apple, as usual.
So what exactly are they copying?
Apple's tablet OS design ideas.
Smartphones?
This has nothing to do with smartphones.
MS Smarthphone was already around in 2002/2003 and it was quite a success. Apple made the step in the market in 2005 with the ROKR but that was Motorola. You have to wait 2007 for the iPhone. So no, they are not copying this.
No, but WP7's redesign is a direct result of Apple's 2007 entry into the market.
Tablets? MS has been around since 2001 and please don't start stretching it with the Newton, a complete failure, as opposed to Windows CE on PDAs that was ubiquitous
Like I said, the tablet design ideas. Those tablets that have been around since 2001 simply used the standard Windows GUI. That's why they were a market failure.
As for the Newton, not sure why you seem to think it doesn't apply, since you seem to be talking about the form factors and not the designs behind them.
Matrix of icons in the GUI? ROTFL...
What?
Wow, the point is that it doesn't use Metro and that despite its name is not just a library.
And how is that a point? It's the exact opposite of what the article is about.
You mad?
Lame.
Someone will figure out how to attract the generic consumer at some point.
The only way this will happen is by changing Linux, not changing the message.
Android seems to be doing well.
Android isn't Linux. It merely uses a highly modified Linux kernel.
LAMP seems to be doing well (not really a consumer product, but it does have a consumer facing aspect since it is an option when purchasing web hosting, which many average people are doing today).
Exactly. Every single consumer success for Linux happens everywhere *except* the desktop.
All Linux needs is a good spokesman.
Linux's problem has absolutely nothing to do with marketing. People just simply don't give a shit about free (libre), because there's no practical value to them. And commercial operating systems aren't expensive enough to make people care about free (gratis).
What they care about is that the system works with their stuff, and is easy enough to use. Linux fails both criteria for the vast majority of consumers. Who cares if it's "better" if you can't use it?
Or, what seems to be the most likely, a wrapper around Linux that tells the user a lot in a simple snappy name. Android did that and it's worked quite well.
Right. Android was a success in no small part due to throwing out everything that makes Linux recognizable as Linux.
And it's not really a patch, and it doesn't run on Metro...
.. and that was sort of the point.
Which is absolutely no point whatsoever.