The 13" Macbook Pro is still stuck with a 2 year old CPU when much more modern alternatives are available. Their reason is most likely profit margins
No, it's due to Intel not allowing Nvidia to sell chipsets for the Core i3/5/7 processors.
I can't help thinking Apple just released an expensive netbook...
A strange way to look at it, but if you want, it's an expensive netbook[*] that is well worth the extra cost. A full-sized, high-rez, high-quality screen. A full-sized keyboard and trackpad (glass multitouch, no less). Core2Duo processor. Unibody aluminum design.
Or to look at it in a different way, if this were $299-$399, like most netbooks, wouldn't it be a no-brainer choice? At that price, it's clearly superior to any netbook, so it's easily worth more.
[*] except not really, because those are the sorts of things that make something not a netbook.
You don't seem to understand Mac OS X software installation. You also don't seem to understand that you can still install apps in other ways besides the Mac App Store, such as double-clicking a downloads.pkg file. Also, you don't seem to understand that Macs can have many different applications stores active all at once.
Apple is copying Linux/Unix, just like Microsoft used to copy Apple.
No, the App Stores are Apple copying what they already did for music in iTunes. Are you saying the iTunes Music Store is a copy of something like dselect? You're running out of material here man.
However, the flip side of this is that Apple has repeatedly stated that the 'walled garden' is the way to go.
Yeah, for iPhone/iOS. And it has clearly worked extremely well for them. They would only ever lock down Mac OS X in the same way if it solved a problem so significant that the downsides are dwarfed by the benefits. What problems would a locked down Mac App Store solve? And the downsides of a locked down desktop OS are much worse than a locked down handheld OS. So not only is the upside lacking, but the downside is much worse.
This is basically a variation on Steam. Steam is successful because it's convenient and has a great selection. Apple's Mac App Store will be pretty much like that. It will even get to the point most likely where people will prefer to use it over traditional means of software discovery, purchase, download and installation. Unless there is a *HUGE* paradigm shift in PC computing (not just, "the way things are going...", but something as big as the introduction of the iPad), Apple will *not* lock down Mac OS X. The very notion is absurd beyond words.
One step closer to macos lockdown just like the iOS platform
Slashdot ignorance at it's finest!
Apple is not going to fucking lock down Mac OS X. This is a completely absurd fear. But don't worry, you'll get modded +5 with tons of replies agreeing with you, and I'll get troll or flamebait.
There are reasons Apple has locked down app installation on iOS. They are ease of use and to protect against malware and otherwise shoddy software. The App Store on the Mac is voluntary, and there is absolutely zero reason to think they will make it mandatory. Do you think they are going to tell Autodesk and Adobe and Microsoft that if you want to sell apps, you have to go through the App Store? Do you think they are going to banish things like MacPorts?
Why would Apple give up the thriving third party Mac software market? Because jackasses like you think Steve Jobs wants to control you? You guys (at least, a sizable number of you) are insane, seriously bat-shit mental, if you think that's what Apple is all about.
However, my main point still stands that iOS outsells Android, both within the US and worldwide.
You've consistently said that but have you got something to back that up?
Apple sold over 14 million iPhones last quarter, over 4 million iPads, and an unspecified number of iPod touches. They sold 9 million iPods, but I don't know the breakdown between touches and non-touches. To make round numbers, let's assume 2 million iPod touches (I would expect more than that, but this makes it 20 million iOS devices).
This also coincides with Apple's claim at the iPhone 4 launch that they were on track to sell their 100 millionth iOS device in June, and they hit 120 million last month.
So, the question becomes, how many Android devices were sold during the last quarter? Actual numbers are pretty much impossible to find. Any actual Android numbers are based on assumptions stemming from disparate bits of info. 200k/day is a number Google has bandied about (it's not clear if that number is the daily average for the whole quarter, but for discussion let's assume it is), which is about 18.6 million for the last quarter. If you have different numbers, I'm open to hearing them.
It's quite possible for Android to exceed iOS sales rates sometime in 2011. Even if that happens, it will be a very long time before total Android units exceed iOS sales. But on Slashdot, you see an almost cult-like belief that Android is outselling iOS.
At this particular moment, Android fanboyism on Slashdot is insane. Far more insane than Apple fanboyism has ever been, and that's saying something. I assume this stems from an ostensibly open source project becoming a consumer hit. But the sad reality is that very few of those potentially 18.6 million bought Android because of its Linux kernel, or anything to do with open source whatsoever. Also, it's irrational to assume the trends will remain the same. A Verizon iPhone (which appears to finally be about ready to launch) will have a significant impact.
But only time will tell. What time has told us up to this point is that iOS leads Android so far, both in total sales and current sales rates.
Kudos for finding some actual numbers. Let's see, 2Q10... Isn't that when iPhone sales slow in anticipation of the new iPhone? And also a quarter that was notorious for many free Android handset sales? Apple just sold over 14 million iPhones this last quarter.
However, if Android has taken, and maintained a lead over iPhone, worldwide, that certainly is news, and if so, I stand corrected on one small point
However, my main point still stands that iOS outsells Android, both within the US and worldwide. My specific part about the iPhone was just a statement of, "Android in total doesn't even outsell just the iPhone, which is a subset of iOS sales".
The fact remains that there are more iOS devices out there than Android devices. There are more iPhones out there than Android phones (although if the numbers hold, it's possible for this to change, but expecting the numbers to hold is not entirely rational either). And no matter what, with the current numbers, there is no likelihood of Android outselling iOS any time soon.
Which is fine. I don't really care if Android outsells iOS or not. My only personal concern is that iOS maintains a healthy market, and there's absolutely zero danger of that changing in the foreseeable future. My only point here is that this notion that Android is outselling iOS is absurd fantasy, and the fact that both the moderators and posters here are so quick to promote this illusion is rather pathetic.
Sometimes it's a month, or more! I've heard 8 days is typical, but it's easily longer.
"Sometimes" is a pretty weak foundation to base your argument on. Let's say it's 8 days. In fact, let's say it's two weeks, what the hell. Even two weeks is not some horrible delay. It's definitely not ideal, but it's not going to (in your own words) "have a large impact on your overall sales". It's just another part of the process of selling an app, and it's a hell of a lot faster than more traditional program release cycles which include pressing discs and sending them to stores.
Zynga has 41 apps, 6 of them are real apps, 35 are points.
Do you honestly believe Zynga is typical?
The term "lite" delivers pages and pages of apps (free does too, but that list is less likely to follow the same idea).
Do you know how many "pages and pages" it will take to reach even 1% of all apps? As I already said, even if a full 1/3 of apps are "lite" versions, that's still 200k of non-lite apps. Lite can only really make up 50% tops (it is obviously much less than that), so even 1/3 is an absurdly high number.
The point being that your claim that, well, the App Store really isn't all that big because the number is inflated does not represent reality.
To be fair, a large percentage of those apps on the Apple App Store are duplicates for lite versions, or extra content for other apps, or paid points for things like Mafia Wars.
No they aren't. But let's say that's true, and a full 1/3 of apps are like that (an absurdly high ratio), even then there are 200k+ unique apps.
There's also the consideration that any delay in Apple accepting your app can have a large impact on your overall sales.
It's a few days on average. I doubt this is a big issue.
This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. People here exaggerate Android benefits and iPhone downsides to absurd levels.
I chose an iPhone 4 specifically because I demand quality. Openness is good, and I do value it, but the difference in openness between iOS and Android is not enough to offset the difference in quality (both hardware and software) for me.
You'll notice in my posts I never tell people what to buy, or even what to prefer in a product. I just explain my choices and values, and the objective metrics of how the products fare in the world at large. Yet I'm the one who gets called "fanboy". Astonishing.
But people give shit about being able to make a call on a fucking phone, and not to be told how to hold it. And it shows.
Record-breaking 14+ million iPhones sold this quarter. Yeah, people are really shying away from iPhone.
BTW, stop being such a bitch of apple and grow a pair. Your beloved company is going the same way it did 20 years back when the 'fragmentation' of Windows trumpeted the 'it just works' shit of apple.
Sorry man, I'm just going by the facts. Android is a great system and I'm glad it exists, but Android fanboys make even the most rabid Apple fanboy look like a Rhodes Scholar.
Only in the United States, only counts iPhones. Worldwide, iPhone outsells Android, and in the US, iOS outsells Android.
I'm curious, when you read the link you provided, did you honestly not see/register "US" and "iPhone"? Or did you see those things and deliberately decide to lie?
As is typical in arguments like this, the truth is somewhere in between.
I don't see how that makes any sense. I said iOS has, and continues to, outsell Android. There's no "in-between" about it.
If analytic firms (and their summaries on Wikipedia) are to be believed (and for this I'm too lazy to do real follow up), then iOS is currently #2, but should be supplanted sometime in 2011 or 2012 (read paragraphs 3-4).
I never made any claims about 2011/2012. But I will make one claim right now: it's absurd to place any faith in numbers like this for over a year from now. It's definitely possible for Android to surpass iOS, and if it does, I won't lie and pretend like it hasn't, like Slashdot Android fanboys are doing now.
One reason such a claim is absurd is that a Verizon iPhone will significantly alter the market. So will the iPhone 5. So will an Android analog of an iPhone 5 (which is unlikely, but possible). So will a successful Android tablet (again, unlikely).
What I'm saying is, I would be quite surprised, but don't find it impossible, for Android to begin to actually outsell iOS by 2012. I would be utterly amazed were it to also have a greater total market share by then. But only time will tell. As for now, what I wrote is 100% correct, no in-between about it.
Slashdot has a raging hardon for Android. Understandable given its geek appeal, but it's clouding the judgement of presumably otherwise rational people. In April, the common notion was that iPad would sell great for a few weeks as all the Apple fanboys bought them, then it would peter out, become a dud, and by the fall, all the numerous Android tablets would dominate the market. Now, it's iOS is being outsold by Android, and consumers are choosing "freedom" because Steve Jobs wants to control everything you do on your phones and iPods/iPads.
In the US, and not iOS but just iPhone. Worldwide iPhone outsells Android phones, and even in the US, iOS outsells outsells Android. And overall market share, iOS is far ahead at 120 million devices sold.
It's sad that Slashdot is so ill-informed that something so woefully false is so widely believed. Fanboyism is funny that way. It doesn't only apply to those you disagree with, you gotta watch out for it in yourself.
Android provides choice.
Yes it does. Not as much choice as some people like to pretend, but it certainly offers more choice in hardware.
With iPhone, your choices are.... how much memory do you want. Wow.. thanks for understanding exactly what I want in a phone Steve. But your ESP is off, I like using memory cards and having accessible batteries and keyboards.
Given the exceptional success of the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad, I'd say his "ESP" is spot on. It failed for you, and that's fine. But it certainly has succeeded far beyond the competition.
The rest of the crap you talked about being the 'strength' of Apple doesn't mean diddly squat. My HTC phone worked out of the box, always has. It has never frozen up. I've never been 'confused' about apps.
I never said any of those things.
And I like sorting out all the different phone options.
Hooray for you.
In fact, I DEMAND to have the choice.
And I "DEMAND" quality. Fortunately there are products that cater to both of us.
Oh wait.. I did...
I didn't pick an iPhone.
Again, hooray for you. As long as you like the product you bought, what's it to me? Unlike the Android fanboys, I don't get all worked up if someone else decides they like the phone system I didn't buy. I won't put you down for it, I won't make fun of you or your phone. What I *won't* let go unchallenged, however, is all the bullshit you fanboys spew forth. You get simple facts like market share wrong, and wildly exaggerate things like "openness" and "choice". I'm glad those things have such great meaning for you, but any pretense that the market cares even half as much as you do about these things is delusion.
I rarely read replies, so don't assume you won your argument just because I don't respond....
Only very recently has Android slightly surpassed the sales of the iPhone in the US. Count the entire world, or even just limit to the US, but compare it to iOS, not just iPhone, and you'll find that Android still has a ways to go.
Apple has just recently sold their 120 millionth iOS device. *THAT'S* market share that Android has a long ways to go to reach. I'd doubt that Android is even at *half* that at the moment.
Good luck "making a bit of money" when you're already negative from the get go!
This is one of the single most idiotic arguments that the "free" and "open" software crowd can, and far too often does, make. Even RMS tends to stray away from the cost argument.
If your app is only 99 cents, that means you just have to sell about 150 copies per year to make back your developer fee. As for the computer, a Mac mini is $699. If you really want to go cheap, you can even build a hackintosh (Apple won't know the difference, and they won't ask either). But if making back $99/year, and a one time $699 is difficult, you aren't really making much money in the first place. People who work buy tools, and they buy those tools because they help them make more money than they would without them. Telling someone, "hey, don't buy these tools, you can work over here with cheaper tools" is like saying, "don't make $100k/year, minus $798. Instead make $10k/year, minus $299. It's way better!"
And if your app is free (not ad supported, but completely no-strings free), then you're clearly doing this as a sort of hobby and at $99/year, it's quite inexpensive as far as hobbies go.
You're correct that git and make don't mean anything to a customer but it does if you consider that developers have to embrace the platform before the customer has an apps to use!
Short run: make your money on iPhone. Long run: Android wins out. Trust me on this one.
Consumers prefer Apple devices. Being able to compile the kernel does not entice consumers, and it with the hundreds of thousands of apps, it doesn't seem like the inability to git the iOS kernel is keeping them away.
You like Android, you like the freedom it provides. You like the tool-like hackability, even if you never fully take advantage of it yourself. That's fine. In fact, that's great. Even if I never use Android myself, I'm glad it's there for the people who value those features. But just like all the "Year of Linux" cries from years past, it's foolish to extend this into thinking that it's going to take over the world. It's not. People don't give a shit about "open". Not after a certain point. Rightfully so. Open is just one aspect of a product.
I hear it's so much better when someone else adjusts all the straps for you.
Like HTC or LG? Verizon?
With Android, it's "open" unless you want to include Google's full Android functionality, then there are some artificial technical requirements. But even so, you can still customize it quite a bit, with "you" being the hardware manufacturer. Finally, you take it to the carrier who locks it down some more. I'm not saying this to knock Android itself, just the notion that it's some sort of Freedom system like Linux is. It's similar, and the end products are a bit more open than iOS, but they are nothing like what people like to pretend.
As for iOS's "straightjacket", that implies extremely limited freedom. It takes an exceptionally warped sense of reality to think of iOS like a straightjacket. iOS has, and continues to, outsell Android. Consumers aren't forced to do this by monopoly, nor do they do so out of convenience or cost (like the inevitable McDonald's comparison), they do this because they specifically choose to. People don't generally choose things that are so severely limiting like straightjackets, so something's definitely off in your analogy.
There's no doubt that Android is more open than iOS. What is in doubt is the extremes being portrayed, and more to the point, how much that difference matters to the common consumer. The answer so far is quite clear.
You can do the same thing with the Mac OS X kernel. I guess that makes Mac OS X open as well? Rubin's tweet exemplifies what Jobs was saying, that the "openness" of Android is being exaggerated.
Android is nowhere near as open as Linux, but all the Android fanboys like to act like it is. Likewise, they act like iOS is Stalinist Russia with Steve Jobs peeking over everyone's shoulders. Reality is nowhere near perception here, but this is Slashdot, and since the Year of Linux on the Desktop has been postponed indefinitely, and the netbook Linux revolution was stillborn, a vocal group here will instead act like it's the Year of Linux(Android) on the Handheld.
iOS continues to outsell Android, and that's in spite of carriers offering free Android phones, and iPhone only available on one carrier in the US. Android is doing well, and it's certainly nothing to scoff at, but the common perception here on Slashdot is so far out of whack with reality that it really makes me embarrassed to read the comments sometimes.
What the hell are you talking about? Since when is having a smaller marketshare being significantly more successful?
There are far more iOS devices out there than Android devices.
And what numbers did you pull from your ass to make that claim?
How can you possibly think there are more Android devices out there than iOS devices? The notion itself is laughably absurd.
Sometime last month Apple sold its 120 millionth iOS device. Total Android devices sold is much harder to come by, but if you have a source that's even *half* that, I'm all ears. But in no way is it even remotely reasonable to think you'll find there are even 100 million Android devices out there.
Slashdot Mirror
The 13" Macbook Pro is still stuck with a 2 year old CPU when much more modern alternatives are available. Their reason is most likely profit margins
No, it's due to Intel not allowing Nvidia to sell chipsets for the Core i3/5/7 processors.
I can't help thinking Apple just released an expensive netbook...
A strange way to look at it, but if you want, it's an expensive netbook[*] that is well worth the extra cost. A full-sized, high-rez, high-quality screen. A full-sized keyboard and trackpad (glass multitouch, no less). Core2Duo processor. Unibody aluminum design.
Or to look at it in a different way, if this were $299-$399, like most netbooks, wouldn't it be a no-brainer choice? At that price, it's clearly superior to any netbook, so it's easily worth more.
[*] except not really, because those are the sorts of things that make something not a netbook.
You don't seem to understand Mac OS X software installation. You also don't seem to understand that you can still install apps in other ways besides the Mac App Store, such as double-clicking a downloads .pkg file. Also, you don't seem to understand that Macs can have many different applications stores active all at once.
Apple is copying Linux/Unix, just like Microsoft used to copy Apple.
No, the App Stores are Apple copying what they already did for music in iTunes. Are you saying the iTunes Music Store is a copy of something like dselect? You're running out of material here man.
However, the flip side of this is that Apple has repeatedly stated that the 'walled garden' is the way to go.
Yeah, for iPhone/iOS. And it has clearly worked extremely well for them. They would only ever lock down Mac OS X in the same way if it solved a problem so significant that the downsides are dwarfed by the benefits. What problems would a locked down Mac App Store solve? And the downsides of a locked down desktop OS are much worse than a locked down handheld OS. So not only is the upside lacking, but the downside is much worse.
This is basically a variation on Steam. Steam is successful because it's convenient and has a great selection. Apple's Mac App Store will be pretty much like that. It will even get to the point most likely where people will prefer to use it over traditional means of software discovery, purchase, download and installation. Unless there is a *HUGE* paradigm shift in PC computing (not just, "the way things are going...", but something as big as the introduction of the iPad), Apple will *not* lock down Mac OS X. The very notion is absurd beyond words.
There's a difference. If the Mac app store leads to a lockdown like iOS where you can ONLY install apps via the App store
This is absurd. It's like saying drinking a glass of water leads to drowning.
One step closer to macos lockdown just like the iOS platform
Slashdot ignorance at it's finest!
Apple is not going to fucking lock down Mac OS X. This is a completely absurd fear. But don't worry, you'll get modded +5 with tons of replies agreeing with you, and I'll get troll or flamebait.
There are reasons Apple has locked down app installation on iOS. They are ease of use and to protect against malware and otherwise shoddy software. The App Store on the Mac is voluntary, and there is absolutely zero reason to think they will make it mandatory. Do you think they are going to tell Autodesk and Adobe and Microsoft that if you want to sell apps, you have to go through the App Store? Do you think they are going to banish things like MacPorts?
Why would Apple give up the thriving third party Mac software market? Because jackasses like you think Steve Jobs wants to control you? You guys (at least, a sizable number of you) are insane, seriously bat-shit mental, if you think that's what Apple is all about.
However, my main point still stands that iOS outsells Android, both within the US and worldwide.
You've consistently said that but have you got something to back that up?
Apple sold over 14 million iPhones last quarter, over 4 million iPads, and an unspecified number of iPod touches. They sold 9 million iPods, but I don't know the breakdown between touches and non-touches. To make round numbers, let's assume 2 million iPod touches (I would expect more than that, but this makes it 20 million iOS devices).
This also coincides with Apple's claim at the iPhone 4 launch that they were on track to sell their 100 millionth iOS device in June, and they hit 120 million last month.
So, the question becomes, how many Android devices were sold during the last quarter? Actual numbers are pretty much impossible to find. Any actual Android numbers are based on assumptions stemming from disparate bits of info. 200k/day is a number Google has bandied about (it's not clear if that number is the daily average for the whole quarter, but for discussion let's assume it is), which is about 18.6 million for the last quarter. If you have different numbers, I'm open to hearing them.
It's quite possible for Android to exceed iOS sales rates sometime in 2011. Even if that happens, it will be a very long time before total Android units exceed iOS sales. But on Slashdot, you see an almost cult-like belief that Android is outselling iOS.
At this particular moment, Android fanboyism on Slashdot is insane. Far more insane than Apple fanboyism has ever been, and that's saying something. I assume this stems from an ostensibly open source project becoming a consumer hit. But the sad reality is that very few of those potentially 18.6 million bought Android because of its Linux kernel, or anything to do with open source whatsoever. Also, it's irrational to assume the trends will remain the same. A Verizon iPhone (which appears to finally be about ready to launch) will have a significant impact.
But only time will tell. What time has told us up to this point is that iOS leads Android so far, both in total sales and current sales rates.
Kudos for finding some actual numbers. Let's see, 2Q10... Isn't that when iPhone sales slow in anticipation of the new iPhone? And also a quarter that was notorious for many free Android handset sales? Apple just sold over 14 million iPhones this last quarter.
However, if Android has taken, and maintained a lead over iPhone, worldwide, that certainly is news, and if so, I stand corrected on one small point
However, my main point still stands that iOS outsells Android, both within the US and worldwide. My specific part about the iPhone was just a statement of, "Android in total doesn't even outsell just the iPhone, which is a subset of iOS sales".
The fact remains that there are more iOS devices out there than Android devices. There are more iPhones out there than Android phones (although if the numbers hold, it's possible for this to change, but expecting the numbers to hold is not entirely rational either). And no matter what, with the current numbers, there is no likelihood of Android outselling iOS any time soon.
Which is fine. I don't really care if Android outsells iOS or not. My only personal concern is that iOS maintains a healthy market, and there's absolutely zero danger of that changing in the foreseeable future. My only point here is that this notion that Android is outselling iOS is absurd fantasy, and the fact that both the moderators and posters here are so quick to promote this illusion is rather pathetic.
Apparently you missed the part that says: "Nielsen is adding its voice to the chorus of research firms confirming the ascension of Android."
I fail to see how that equates to "Android sells more than iOS". Care to elucidate?
Sometimes it's a month, or more! I've heard 8 days is typical, but it's easily longer.
"Sometimes" is a pretty weak foundation to base your argument on. Let's say it's 8 days. In fact, let's say it's two weeks, what the hell. Even two weeks is not some horrible delay. It's definitely not ideal, but it's not going to (in your own words) "have a large impact on your overall sales". It's just another part of the process of selling an app, and it's a hell of a lot faster than more traditional program release cycles which include pressing discs and sending them to stores.
Zynga has 41 apps, 6 of them are real apps, 35 are points.
Do you honestly believe Zynga is typical?
The term "lite" delivers pages and pages of apps (free does too, but that list is less likely to follow the same idea).
Do you know how many "pages and pages" it will take to reach even 1% of all apps? As I already said, even if a full 1/3 of apps are "lite" versions, that's still 200k of non-lite apps. Lite can only really make up 50% tops (it is obviously much less than that), so even 1/3 is an absurdly high number.
The point being that your claim that, well, the App Store really isn't all that big because the number is inflated does not represent reality.
To be fair, a large percentage of those apps on the Apple App Store are duplicates for lite versions, or extra content for other apps, or paid points for things like Mafia Wars.
No they aren't. But let's say that's true, and a full 1/3 of apps are like that (an absurdly high ratio), even then there are 200k+ unique apps.
There's also the consideration that any delay in Apple accepting your app can have a large impact on your overall sales.
It's a few days on average. I doubt this is a big issue.
This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. People here exaggerate Android benefits and iPhone downsides to absurd levels.
I chose an iPhone 4 specifically because I demand quality. Openness is good, and I do value it, but the difference in openness between iOS and Android is not enough to offset the difference in quality (both hardware and software) for me.
You'll notice in my posts I never tell people what to buy, or even what to prefer in a product. I just explain my choices and values, and the objective metrics of how the products fare in the world at large. Yet I'm the one who gets called "fanboy". Astonishing.
Excellent rebuttal. After all, why change that winning formula that got you through the third grade?
But people give shit about being able to make a call on a fucking phone, and not to be told how to hold it. And it shows.
Record-breaking 14+ million iPhones sold this quarter. Yeah, people are really shying away from iPhone.
BTW, stop being such a bitch of apple and grow a pair. Your beloved company is going the same way it did 20 years back when the 'fragmentation' of Windows trumpeted the 'it just works' shit of apple.
Sorry man, I'm just going by the facts. Android is a great system and I'm glad it exists, but Android fanboys make even the most rabid Apple fanboy look like a Rhodes Scholar.
Only in the United States, only counts iPhones. Worldwide, iPhone outsells Android, and in the US, iOS outsells Android.
I'm curious, when you read the link you provided, did you honestly not see/register "US" and "iPhone"? Or did you see those things and deliberately decide to lie?
As is typical in arguments like this, the truth is somewhere in between.
I don't see how that makes any sense. I said iOS has, and continues to, outsell Android. There's no "in-between" about it.
If analytic firms (and their summaries on Wikipedia) are to be believed (and for this I'm too lazy to do real follow up), then iOS is currently #2, but should be supplanted sometime in 2011 or 2012 (read paragraphs 3-4).
I never made any claims about 2011/2012. But I will make one claim right now: it's absurd to place any faith in numbers like this for over a year from now. It's definitely possible for Android to surpass iOS, and if it does, I won't lie and pretend like it hasn't, like Slashdot Android fanboys are doing now.
One reason such a claim is absurd is that a Verizon iPhone will significantly alter the market. So will the iPhone 5. So will an Android analog of an iPhone 5 (which is unlikely, but possible). So will a successful Android tablet (again, unlikely).
What I'm saying is, I would be quite surprised, but don't find it impossible, for Android to begin to actually outsell iOS by 2012. I would be utterly amazed were it to also have a greater total market share by then. But only time will tell. As for now, what I wrote is 100% correct, no in-between about it.
Slashdot has a raging hardon for Android. Understandable given its geek appeal, but it's clouding the judgement of presumably otherwise rational people. In April, the common notion was that iPad would sell great for a few weeks as all the Apple fanboys bought them, then it would peter out, become a dud, and by the fall, all the numerous Android tablets would dominate the market. Now, it's iOS is being outsold by Android, and consumers are choosing "freedom" because Steve Jobs wants to control everything you do on your phones and iPods/iPads.
Nielsen: Android market share eclipses iPhone
Another Apple myth tossed out.....
In the US, and not iOS but just iPhone. Worldwide iPhone outsells Android phones, and even in the US, iOS outsells outsells Android. And overall market share, iOS is far ahead at 120 million devices sold.
It's sad that Slashdot is so ill-informed that something so woefully false is so widely believed. Fanboyism is funny that way. It doesn't only apply to those you disagree with, you gotta watch out for it in yourself.
Android provides choice.
Yes it does. Not as much choice as some people like to pretend, but it certainly offers more choice in hardware.
With iPhone, your choices are .... how much memory do you want. Wow .. thanks for understanding exactly what I want in a phone Steve. But your ESP is off, I like using memory cards and having accessible batteries and keyboards.
Given the exceptional success of the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad, I'd say his "ESP" is spot on. It failed for you, and that's fine. But it certainly has succeeded far beyond the competition.
The rest of the crap you talked about being the 'strength' of Apple doesn't mean diddly squat. My HTC phone worked out of the box, always has. It has never frozen up. I've never been 'confused' about apps.
I never said any of those things.
And I like sorting out all the different phone options.
Hooray for you.
In fact, I DEMAND to have the choice.
And I "DEMAND" quality. Fortunately there are products that cater to both of us.
Oh wait .. I did...
I didn't pick an iPhone.
Again, hooray for you. As long as you like the product you bought, what's it to me? Unlike the Android fanboys, I don't get all worked up if someone else decides they like the phone system I didn't buy. I won't put you down for it, I won't make fun of you or your phone. What I *won't* let go unchallenged, however, is all the bullshit you fanboys spew forth. You get simple facts like market share wrong, and wildly exaggerate things like "openness" and "choice". I'm glad those things have such great meaning for you, but any pretense that the market cares even half as much as you do about these things is delusion.
I rarely read replies, so don't assume you won your argument just because I don't respond....
Wow, what a douche.
Wow, a pie chart without context. I'm convinced!
Only very recently has Android slightly surpassed the sales of the iPhone in the US. Count the entire world, or even just limit to the US, but compare it to iOS, not just iPhone, and you'll find that Android still has a ways to go.
Apple has just recently sold their 120 millionth iOS device. *THAT'S* market share that Android has a long ways to go to reach. I'd doubt that Android is even at *half* that at the moment.
Umm... Android is actually outselling iOS... I'm rather curious to see where you got that info from.
Um, no it's not. Although absurd on the face of it, it's sadly not surprising that people here on Slashdot think that's the case.
Good luck "making a bit of money" when you're already negative from the get go!
This is one of the single most idiotic arguments that the "free" and "open" software crowd can, and far too often does, make. Even RMS tends to stray away from the cost argument.
If your app is only 99 cents, that means you just have to sell about 150 copies per year to make back your developer fee. As for the computer, a Mac mini is $699. If you really want to go cheap, you can even build a hackintosh (Apple won't know the difference, and they won't ask either). But if making back $99/year, and a one time $699 is difficult, you aren't really making much money in the first place. People who work buy tools, and they buy those tools because they help them make more money than they would without them. Telling someone, "hey, don't buy these tools, you can work over here with cheaper tools" is like saying, "don't make $100k/year, minus $798. Instead make $10k/year, minus $299. It's way better!"
And if your app is free (not ad supported, but completely no-strings free), then you're clearly doing this as a sort of hobby and at $99/year, it's quite inexpensive as far as hobbies go.
You're correct that git and make don't mean anything to a customer but it does if you consider that developers have to embrace the platform before the customer has an apps to use!
Short run: make your money on iPhone. Long run: Android wins out. Trust me on this one.
Consumers prefer Apple devices. Being able to compile the kernel does not entice consumers, and it with the hundreds of thousands of apps, it doesn't seem like the inability to git the iOS kernel is keeping them away.
You like Android, you like the freedom it provides. You like the tool-like hackability, even if you never fully take advantage of it yourself. That's fine. In fact, that's great. Even if I never use Android myself, I'm glad it's there for the people who value those features. But just like all the "Year of Linux" cries from years past, it's foolish to extend this into thinking that it's going to take over the world. It's not. People don't give a shit about "open". Not after a certain point. Rightfully so. Open is just one aspect of a product.
I hear it's so much better when someone else adjusts all the straps for you.
Like HTC or LG? Verizon?
With Android, it's "open" unless you want to include Google's full Android functionality, then there are some artificial technical requirements. But even so, you can still customize it quite a bit, with "you" being the hardware manufacturer. Finally, you take it to the carrier who locks it down some more. I'm not saying this to knock Android itself, just the notion that it's some sort of Freedom system like Linux is. It's similar, and the end products are a bit more open than iOS, but they are nothing like what people like to pretend.
As for iOS's "straightjacket", that implies extremely limited freedom. It takes an exceptionally warped sense of reality to think of iOS like a straightjacket. iOS has, and continues to, outsell Android. Consumers aren't forced to do this by monopoly, nor do they do so out of convenience or cost (like the inevitable McDonald's comparison), they do this because they specifically choose to. People don't generally choose things that are so severely limiting like straightjackets, so something's definitely off in your analogy.
There's no doubt that Android is more open than iOS. What is in doubt is the extremes being portrayed, and more to the point, how much that difference matters to the common consumer. The answer so far is quite clear.
You can do the same thing with the Mac OS X kernel. I guess that makes Mac OS X open as well? Rubin's tweet exemplifies what Jobs was saying, that the "openness" of Android is being exaggerated.
Android is nowhere near as open as Linux, but all the Android fanboys like to act like it is. Likewise, they act like iOS is Stalinist Russia with Steve Jobs peeking over everyone's shoulders. Reality is nowhere near perception here, but this is Slashdot, and since the Year of Linux on the Desktop has been postponed indefinitely, and the netbook Linux revolution was stillborn, a vocal group here will instead act like it's the Year of Linux(Android) on the Handheld.
iOS continues to outsell Android, and that's in spite of carriers offering free Android phones, and iPhone only available on one carrier in the US. Android is doing well, and it's certainly nothing to scoff at, but the common perception here on Slashdot is so far out of whack with reality that it really makes me embarrassed to read the comments sometimes.
What the hell are you talking about? Since when is having a smaller marketshare being significantly more successful?
There are far more iOS devices out there than Android devices.
And what numbers did you pull from your ass to make that claim?
How can you possibly think there are more Android devices out there than iOS devices? The notion itself is laughably absurd.
Sometime last month Apple sold its 120 millionth iOS device. Total Android devices sold is much harder to come by, but if you have a source that's even *half* that, I'm all ears. But in no way is it even remotely reasonable to think you'll find there are even 100 million Android devices out there.
What the hell are you talking about? Since when is having a smaller marketshare being significantly more successful?
There are far more iOS devices out there than Android devices.
If you need to raise the price of your app....nothing is stopping you. If you think it's worth that much.....
Nothing, except for all the people that bitch if an app is even $4.99.