you wouldn't even have to have Win32 support, instead shoot for something like a hardware accelerated "XP Mode" that would let them take their old license, or even better the install that is on the drive, and make it a VM that has icons on the desktop that allow them to launch the VM and have it behave like a native app. That way there wouldn't be the pain of trying to find apps to do the tasks their now EOL software was used for as they could just use what they have and have Linux for new applications.
Man, I wish it were that easy. Windows will cheerfully blue-screen you all day if you change its hardware. That's one of the things I love about Linux, you can upgrade the whole box, swap the drive from your old rig, turn it on, and it Just Works. Windows, on the other hand, is security-locked to your hardware - for example, I had to call Microsoft 4 times in 3 months because my wife's machine was dying and kept killing video cards. That's right, the only component that changed was the video card, and Windows wanted reactivated. Every time. Complete with the implication that I was pirating the stupid thing, despite me having to read them the key off the sticker on the back of the machine. Every time.
That being said, having a virtual machine for "XP Mode" is a great idea, even if you had to reinstall the OS to make it happen... except it's probably already patented by Microsoft (Vista/7 have an "XP Mode" that is nothing more than MS VirtualPC with a downloaded XP appliance that asks for your Vista/7 Key when you "install" it).
I agree wholeheartedly about the War on Drugs being violent and ill-advised, but I think you missed my point about heroin.
The drug itself may cause the user to feel very mellow, but the withdrawal is mentally, emotionally, and physically painful. The user who is looking for a fix has very few qualms about being violent, as a quick Google search can show. I'm not imagining this violence, I'm using it to justify my feelings related to this specific drug.
If you choose to use or abuse heroin, that is your choice - but I don't feel that it would be a good idea to legalize that particular drug. Sorry.
I feel like I'm feeding a troll, here, but I'm going to try one more time to explain my position.
You stated that Samsung did not have a store, then provided a link that showed that they did, in fact, have a store.
You then attacked me for pointing this out.
You went on to complain about the "bribe" inherent in a steeply discounted price. I countered that your stated viewpoint indicated that you would never use coupons or accept sale prices on anything, if "bribery" insults you so much. Your response that I was suggesting you fly to Australia is... well, a bit odd, to say the least.
In your most recent post, you state that the store did not last long enough to have relevant sales data... but if it was irrelevant, then why are you so bent out of shape over it? If it's not irrelevant, then why did you claim that it is?
In response to your accusations of "levying insults", I would like to point out that your initial post is where the accusatory tone and condescending manner of this thread began.
You appear to have some issues in relation to reality. You appear to switch ideologies to suit your whim. You appear, in short, to be mentally unbalanced, and incapable of rational and/or critical thinking.
Heroin users are dangerous. They become violent when deprived of their chosen substance, and have no inhibitions against robbing and killing people to acquire funds to procure more of the drug.
The withdrawal symptoms are the majority of the reason for this. Show me a version of heroin that doesn't have life-threatening withdrawal symptoms (whether to the user or to those around him/her), and I will reconsider my position.
Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I would like to reiterate that my argument against heroin is less about the effects on the user than about the effect the user has on society-at-large when they run out of money to support their habit. Robbing, killing, and other violent and antisocial tendencies work against this particular drug's fight for legality.
Actually, I have discovered since posting that "Ubuntu Classic" is no longer an option in 11.10. Therefore, I will be moving to a more user-friendly operating system as soon as I determine which distro that is - I tend to roll about 6 months behind Ubuntu's release schedule, and only recently moved to 11.04, so I figure I have about 5 more months to decide what flavor tastes best.
I am open to suggestions, so long as they come with supporting arguments (a pros/cons list would be nice).
To this day I'm pretty sure that youtube is responsible for 50% of ubuntu's popularity.
I have no doubt whatsoever. The desktop composition videos went viral at just the right time (immediately prior to the release of a new Windows version) to draw in a bunch of users with nothing but Windows experience prior to discovering Linux/Ubuntu.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that the number is even higher than 50% - after all, the videos were certainly a factor in my own decision to "jump ship" and stop supporting Microsoft.
Have you tried Wine for your games? What about VirtualBox for your XP instance?
Yes, I have tried wine for my games. Unfortunately, pure DirectX games (such as the original Dungeon Siege, to pull an example from my experimentation) seem to have severe issues. It is totally acceptable for other games, of course, but having my screen turn gray and/or cease to receive input is rather detrimental to gameplay.
VirtualBox is one of my tried-and-true methods for dealing with applications that absolutely must have Windows in order to operate properly, but my favorite method by far is to simply find an open source alternative. If you were referring to using it for gaming, well... the games just aren't as important to me these days as they used to be, and I do have other gaming-capable machines with XP installed should I feel the itch.
Having said that, I don't understand the relevance of this angle of discussion to the "Unity sucks" theme we have going here, but I do appreciate the attempt to assist usability. Thanks for trying.
I have discovered since my post that 11.10 does not have the "Ubuntu Classic" interface available. I stay about 6 months behind the curve on my Ubuntu installs, because I like working with stuff that actually works, instead of beta-testing new software for the developers. No ill will, mind you, I just don't need to be on the bleeding edge.
As for not being able to use my Ubuntu system once I get around to the stage where I'm considering 11.10... well, I can use the next 6 months determining what OS I'll be running when I upgrade next, can't I?
Good luck to you and yours, I hope we both find superb solutions.
You should read that article again. This time look for the words "temporary" and "pop-up".
You should read that article again. This time, look for the word "store", since you stated:
Unlike Samsung and HTC, I believe Apple has these things called retail stores as well as an online store.
Note: no mention was made of "temporary vs. permanent".
As for your opposition to Samsung's "bribe" of offering steep discounts to the first 10 people to purchase a phone: I'm assuming you never use coupons, and you always pay full price even if the item you are purchasing is on sale? Either your moral indignation over discounts, special offers, and incentives dictates that you never take advantage of them... or you're a hypocrite.
Now pay attention, this part's important: I don't care about shipped vs sold; I was merely pointing out that you stated one thing, and then cited an article that directly contradicted that statement. Unbunch your panties, and pretend that facts and logic are part of this (or any) debate. Maybe you should choose your data sources more carefully next time you decide to fling poo on the internets.
the first ten people each day at the temporary Samsung store can buy the Galaxy S II for just two bucks. This is a $600+ smartphone
Are you just mad that you weren't first in line? Or are you mad that you didn't know that they were practically giving the phone away to the first ten customers each day? Perhaps you're mad because you paid through the nose for an iPhone instead of getting an arguably better phone right next door?
Also, your claim that Samsung doesn't have a store is kinda broken when you link to an article indicating that they have a store.
I was actually responding to dmuir's comment: "That said, it did run slow on a 6 year old laptop. I would find it surprising if that many "power users" were using hardware *that* old though."
Which, looking back at my post, I even quoted.
My comment, "Consider yourself surprised," was directed at the author of my post's parent.
Ubuntu Classic (that is, the Gnome 2-based interface) is gone as of 11.10, replaced with a 2D version of Unity. To get Gnome back you need to install gnome-fallback from the repos.
And that's basically the takeaway from all of this: in seeking to give an Apple-like "It just works, so you don't need to customize it and so we're removing all the customization options," Shuttleworth gave us a buggy, slow interface that sort of works some of the time, and no recourse but to ditch the window manager for KDE of Gnome or something.
Ah, thanks for the heads-up. Guess I'll be switching distros, then.
Actually, the problem with Heroin (as I understand it) is that it's insanely addictive and eventually kills its users due to an overdose caused by its massive tolerance curve. It also has severe withdrawal symptoms, which can include death.
My main issue with heroin is not what it does to the user, though. It's what the users due in order to achieve their next score. Users of exceedingly addictive drugs will do anything to get "just one more hit". Knock over a liquor store, prostitute themselves, pawn anything and everything they can, even kill people.
Sorry, heroin stays on the list with cocaine and PCP, in my book - it's not safe.
Microsoft is planning to force the tablet UI on you as well with Windows 8 next year...
Microsoft hasn't forced a single thing on me since they debuted Vista, and that stupid ribbon in Office. I figured if I was going to have to relearn a whole new operating system and office productivity suite, I might as well choose the one that lets me buy a gaming PC with the money I saved by ditching Microsoft.
Sure, after installation and with 10-15 minutes of work you can end up with Xfce4 or other desktop manager of choice, but not offering the choice at install is bad - just that one choice would probably have made all the difference between people saying "the latest incarnation of Ubuntu is not bad" or "fuck Ubuntu and fuck Unity".
I agree with you for everything except the "10-15 minutes of work" bit. At the login screen, glance at the bottom, where it says "Desktop" and has a drop-down box that says "Unity". Click the drop-down, select "Ubuntu Classic". Poof, all gone the horrible abortion that is Unity, and welcome back to your comfy Gnome. You can even make it the default by opening "Login" in the "Administration" menu and setting a few options (an admin password will be required).
On the other hand, it would be nice to give us an install-time option, or if Shuttleworth insists on setting a default window manager, detect touchscreen displays and only force Unity on us if we're using one. Yeah, I know, detecting those would be difficult. So either give us an option at install, or get rid of the crappy mobile-device interface for our PC operating system.
8.04 was a shining beacon of hope. Many users rejoiced that the Year of the Linux Desktop was finally upon us. The default eyecandy was usable - nay, the default eyecandy was useful, fluidly bonding form and function with just the right touch of whimsy. We had an OS that was just hands-down cooler-looking than anything else on the market at that time, built on a rock-solid, well-tested platform. Installation was a joy, because all the hardware Just Worked. Not only that, we could use the OS while we were installing it. We could then make our Windows-using geek friends cry, simply by logging in and opening a calculator, then wobbling it around the screen, flinging it to the next desktop, and flipping the cube to chase it down again.
This horrid "Unity" monstrosity... It's a joke. It has to be. Right? Right?
Mr Shuttleworth, please tell us you haven't raped our dreams. Please tell us you'll fix it, and make us the coolest geeks in town again. Please.
-- Note: This is completely serious, without any sarcasm whatsoever.
so uninstall retarded scrollbars and global menus if you don't like them, where is the problem?
The problem, as I understand it, is that the default behavior has changed.
To be honest, anyone griping now should have jumped ship when they moved the minimize/maximize/close buttons to the other side of the window, for no apparent reason and despite overwhelming evidence that most users felt it was retarded and/or pointless to do so. This should have been an indication that Shuttleworth thinks he's Jobs. Unfortunately, Jobs had some things Shuttleworth doesn't - like charisma, and the ability to sell ice-water to Eskimos.
Canonical decided, despite the expressed wishes of their users, to force a change upon the desktop environment. Now they have completely changed the desktop, rendering it unusable for a large number of users... and people are dropping Ubuntu like the sickening sack of vomit that it has become.
Surprise!
Disclaimer: I'm still using Ubuntu, but if Unity becomes the de-facto desktop environment, then I'm jumping ship, too. Yes, I could "just change it", but I prefer to use a distribution that is at least similar to my preferred environment to start with, in order to minimize the changes required in order to make it feel like "my OS". That is to say: If I'm going to have to uninstall the desktop environment and install the one I wanted in the first place, why not start with a distro that already has (if nothing else) the environment that I want?
It hurts me to say this, because I hate Apple with a livid passion - their walled garden approach to the world sets my teeth one edge.
Try iCloud. That's what it's supposed to do, make your iPhone, iPod, iMac, and iPad operate as if they are the same device with different form factors. At least, that's what the advertising I've been seeing says it's supposed to do.
Slashdot Mirror
you wouldn't even have to have Win32 support, instead shoot for something like a hardware accelerated "XP Mode" that would let them take their old license, or even better the install that is on the drive, and make it a VM that has icons on the desktop that allow them to launch the VM and have it behave like a native app. That way there wouldn't be the pain of trying to find apps to do the tasks their now EOL software was used for as they could just use what they have and have Linux for new applications.
Man, I wish it were that easy. Windows will cheerfully blue-screen you all day if you change its hardware. That's one of the things I love about Linux, you can upgrade the whole box, swap the drive from your old rig, turn it on, and it Just Works. Windows, on the other hand, is security-locked to your hardware - for example, I had to call Microsoft 4 times in 3 months because my wife's machine was dying and kept killing video cards. That's right, the only component that changed was the video card, and Windows wanted reactivated. Every time. Complete with the implication that I was pirating the stupid thing, despite me having to read them the key off the sticker on the back of the machine. Every time.
That being said, having a virtual machine for "XP Mode" is a great idea, even if you had to reinstall the OS to make it happen... except it's probably already patented by Microsoft (Vista/7 have an "XP Mode" that is nothing more than MS VirtualPC with a downloaded XP appliance that asks for your Vista/7 Key when you "install" it).
Two words: Bluetooth Keyboard.
I agree wholeheartedly about the War on Drugs being violent and ill-advised, but I think you missed my point about heroin.
The drug itself may cause the user to feel very mellow, but the withdrawal is mentally, emotionally, and physically painful. The user who is looking for a fix has very few qualms about being violent, as a quick Google search can show. I'm not imagining this violence, I'm using it to justify my feelings related to this specific drug.
If you choose to use or abuse heroin, that is your choice - but I don't feel that it would be a good idea to legalize that particular drug. Sorry.
I feel like I'm feeding a troll, here, but I'm going to try one more time to explain my position.
You stated that Samsung did not have a store, then provided a link that showed that they did, in fact, have a store.
You then attacked me for pointing this out.
You went on to complain about the "bribe" inherent in a steeply discounted price. I countered that your stated viewpoint indicated that you would never use coupons or accept sale prices on anything, if "bribery" insults you so much. Your response that I was suggesting you fly to Australia is... well, a bit odd, to say the least.
In your most recent post, you state that the store did not last long enough to have relevant sales data... but if it was irrelevant, then why are you so bent out of shape over it? If it's not irrelevant, then why did you claim that it is?
In response to your accusations of "levying insults", I would like to point out that your initial post is where the accusatory tone and condescending manner of this thread began.
You appear to have some issues in relation to reality. You appear to switch ideologies to suit your whim. You appear, in short, to be mentally unbalanced, and incapable of rational and/or critical thinking.
I cannot continue this discussion.
Heroin users are dangerous. They become violent when deprived of their chosen substance, and have no inhibitions against robbing and killing people to acquire funds to procure more of the drug.
The withdrawal symptoms are the majority of the reason for this. Show me a version of heroin that doesn't have life-threatening withdrawal symptoms (whether to the user or to those around him/her), and I will reconsider my position.
The symptoms of heroin withdrawal are analogous to that of a bad flu.
According to the CDC, seasonal flu kills somewhere between 3,000 and 49,000 people each year. I wouldn't call that an unremarkable number, even if the truth is on the low end of that estimate.
Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I would like to reiterate that my argument against heroin is less about the effects on the user than about the effect the user has on society-at-large when they run out of money to support their habit. Robbing, killing, and other violent and antisocial tendencies work against this particular drug's fight for legality.
Actually, I have discovered since posting that "Ubuntu Classic" is no longer an option in 11.10. Therefore, I will be moving to a more user-friendly operating system as soon as I determine which distro that is - I tend to roll about 6 months behind Ubuntu's release schedule, and only recently moved to 11.04, so I figure I have about 5 more months to decide what flavor tastes best.
I am open to suggestions, so long as they come with supporting arguments (a pros/cons list would be nice).
To this day I'm pretty sure that youtube is responsible for 50% of ubuntu's popularity.
I have no doubt whatsoever. The desktop composition videos went viral at just the right time (immediately prior to the release of a new Windows version) to draw in a bunch of users with nothing but Windows experience prior to discovering Linux/Ubuntu.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that the number is even higher than 50% - after all, the videos were certainly a factor in my own decision to "jump ship" and stop supporting Microsoft.
Have you tried Wine for your games? What about VirtualBox for your XP instance?
Yes, I have tried wine for my games. Unfortunately, pure DirectX games (such as the original Dungeon Siege, to pull an example from my experimentation) seem to have severe issues. It is totally acceptable for other games, of course, but having my screen turn gray and/or cease to receive input is rather detrimental to gameplay.
VirtualBox is one of my tried-and-true methods for dealing with applications that absolutely must have Windows in order to operate properly, but my favorite method by far is to simply find an open source alternative. If you were referring to using it for gaming, well... the games just aren't as important to me these days as they used to be, and I do have other gaming-capable machines with XP installed should I feel the itch.
Having said that, I don't understand the relevance of this angle of discussion to the "Unity sucks" theme we have going here, but I do appreciate the attempt to assist usability. Thanks for trying.
I have discovered since my post that 11.10 does not have the "Ubuntu Classic" interface available. I stay about 6 months behind the curve on my Ubuntu installs, because I like working with stuff that actually works, instead of beta-testing new software for the developers. No ill will, mind you, I just don't need to be on the bleeding edge.
As for not being able to use my Ubuntu system once I get around to the stage where I'm considering 11.10... well, I can use the next 6 months determining what OS I'll be running when I upgrade next, can't I?
Good luck to you and yours, I hope we both find superb solutions.
You should read that article again. This time look for the words "temporary" and "pop-up".
You should read that article again. This time, look for the word "store", since you stated:
Unlike Samsung and HTC, I believe Apple has these things called retail stores as well as an online store.
Note: no mention was made of "temporary vs. permanent".
As for your opposition to Samsung's "bribe" of offering steep discounts to the first 10 people to purchase a phone:
I'm assuming you never use coupons, and you always pay full price even if the item you are purchasing is on sale? Either your moral indignation over discounts, special offers, and incentives dictates that you never take advantage of them... or you're a hypocrite.
Now pay attention, this part's important:
I don't care about shipped vs sold; I was merely pointing out that you stated one thing, and then cited an article that directly contradicted that statement. Unbunch your panties, and pretend that facts and logic are part of this (or any) debate. Maybe you should choose your data sources more carefully next time you decide to fling poo on the internets.
As of 6 months ago, your assumption that Apple has more apps is false.
Here is a link for you.
From the article you linked:
the first ten people each day at the temporary Samsung store can buy the Galaxy S II for just two bucks. This is a $600+ smartphone
Are you just mad that you weren't first in line? Or are you mad that you didn't know that they were practically giving the phone away to the first ten customers each day? Perhaps you're mad because you paid through the nose for an iPhone instead of getting an arguably better phone right next door?
Also, your claim that Samsung doesn't have a store is kinda broken when you link to an article indicating that they have a store.
I was actually responding to dmuir's comment: "That said, it did run slow on a 6 year old laptop. I would find it surprising if that many "power users" were using hardware *that* old though."
Which, looking back at my post, I even quoted.
My comment, "Consider yourself surprised," was directed at the author of my post's parent.
Thanks for the supporting arguments, I guess?
Ubuntu Classic (that is, the Gnome 2-based interface) is gone as of 11.10, replaced with a 2D version of Unity. To get Gnome back you need to install gnome-fallback from the repos.
And that's basically the takeaway from all of this: in seeking to give an Apple-like "It just works, so you don't need to customize it and so we're removing all the customization options," Shuttleworth gave us a buggy, slow interface that sort of works some of the time, and no recourse but to ditch the window manager for KDE of Gnome or something.
Ah, thanks for the heads-up. Guess I'll be switching distros, then.
You're absolutely right, it was her father. Thanks for catching my mistake.
Actually, the problem with Heroin (as I understand it) is that it's insanely addictive and eventually kills its users due to an overdose caused by its massive tolerance curve. It also has severe withdrawal symptoms, which can include death.
As for your claim that 60 Minutes said heroin was ok... you're gonna need a citation on that. Especially since a single google search gave me over a million hits for "heroin addiction withdrawal", the first of which is this study by the National Institute on Drug Addiction - admittedly not an unbiased source. However, the Wiki article on heroin seems to agree with those facts.
My main issue with heroin is not what it does to the user, though. It's what the users due in order to achieve their next score. Users of exceedingly addictive drugs will do anything to get "just one more hit". Knock over a liquor store, prostitute themselves, pawn anything and everything they can, even kill people.
Sorry, heroin stays on the list with cocaine and PCP, in my book - it's not safe.
Microsoft is planning to force the tablet UI on you as well with Windows 8 next year...
Microsoft hasn't forced a single thing on me since they debuted Vista, and that stupid ribbon in Office. I figured if I was going to have to relearn a whole new operating system and office productivity suite, I might as well choose the one that lets me buy a gaming PC with the money I saved by ditching Microsoft.
Then why do you even have a GUI?
Sure, after installation and with 10-15 minutes of work you can end up with Xfce4 or other desktop manager of choice, but not offering the choice at install is bad - just that one choice would probably have made all the difference between people saying "the latest incarnation of Ubuntu is not bad" or "fuck Ubuntu and fuck Unity".
I agree with you for everything except the "10-15 minutes of work" bit. At the login screen, glance at the bottom, where it says "Desktop" and has a drop-down box that says "Unity". Click the drop-down, select "Ubuntu Classic". Poof, all gone the horrible abortion that is Unity, and welcome back to your comfy Gnome. You can even make it the default by opening "Login" in the "Administration" menu and setting a few options (an admin password will be required).
On the other hand, it would be nice to give us an install-time option, or if Shuttleworth insists on setting a default window manager, detect touchscreen displays and only force Unity on us if we're using one. Yeah, I know, detecting those would be difficult. So either give us an option at install, or get rid of the crappy mobile-device interface for our PC operating system.
I honestly want to know who the target demographic is for Unity.
Idiots.
Ubuntu good, Unity bad. Mmkay?
Slick isn't just "fine", slick is awesome.
8.04 was a shining beacon of hope. Many users rejoiced that the Year of the Linux Desktop was finally upon us. The default eyecandy was usable - nay, the default eyecandy was useful, fluidly bonding form and function with just the right touch of whimsy. We had an OS that was just hands-down cooler-looking than anything else on the market at that time, built on a rock-solid, well-tested platform. Installation was a joy, because all the hardware Just Worked. Not only that, we could use the OS while we were installing it. We could then make our Windows-using geek friends cry, simply by logging in and opening a calculator, then wobbling it around the screen, flinging it to the next desktop, and flipping the cube to chase it down again.
This horrid "Unity" monstrosity... It's a joke. It has to be. Right? Right?
Mr Shuttleworth, please tell us you haven't raped our dreams. Please tell us you'll fix it, and make us the coolest geeks in town again. Please.
--
Note: This is completely serious, without any sarcasm whatsoever.
so uninstall retarded scrollbars and global menus if you don't like them, where is the problem?
The problem, as I understand it, is that the default behavior has changed.
To be honest, anyone griping now should have jumped ship when they moved the minimize/maximize/close buttons to the other side of the window, for no apparent reason and despite overwhelming evidence that most users felt it was retarded and/or pointless to do so. This should have been an indication that Shuttleworth thinks he's Jobs. Unfortunately, Jobs had some things Shuttleworth doesn't - like charisma, and the ability to sell ice-water to Eskimos.
Canonical decided, despite the expressed wishes of their users, to force a change upon the desktop environment. Now they have completely changed the desktop, rendering it unusable for a large number of users... and people are dropping Ubuntu like the sickening sack of vomit that it has become.
Surprise!
Disclaimer: I'm still using Ubuntu, but if Unity becomes the de-facto desktop environment, then I'm jumping ship, too. Yes, I could "just change it", but I prefer to use a distribution that is at least similar to my preferred environment to start with, in order to minimize the changes required in order to make it feel like "my OS". That is to say: If I'm going to have to uninstall the desktop environment and install the one I wanted in the first place, why not start with a distro that already has (if nothing else) the environment that I want?
... or at least one that functions.
It hurts me to say this, because I hate Apple with a livid passion - their walled garden approach to the world sets my teeth one edge.
Try iCloud. That's what it's supposed to do, make your iPhone, iPod, iMac, and iPad operate as if they are the same device with different form factors. At least, that's what the advertising I've been seeing says it's supposed to do.
Focusing on aesthetics is fine. Breaking functionality to make it pretty is not.
Imagine removing the steering wheel from your car because it blocks the lines from seat to dash. Voila, Unity.