"Open source" pretty much means "giving up your copyright"... I mean, honestly... how can you argue that we are keeping our copyright, if the code must be made public?
This, more than any other shortcoming of Opa, is what will kill you in the end. Requiring users to pay you some extortionate licensing fee or release their code into the wild is retarded, if you actually want to get anywhere.
Any arguments you might have about your fees not being extortionate are rendered null and void, completely moot, by your refusal to provide even a hint of your pricing scheme.
If you don't want people to shoot wide, gaping holes in your pet project, don't bring it to slashdot where all the geeks and nerds can see all of its flaws in the suddenly bright lights of internet fame (or infamy, as the case may be). Slashvertisement is sometimes tied closely to the Streisand effect, especially when you and your team of (non-)PR goons come on here to follow it up with apologetic gymnastics.
Better yet, you guys responded to valid criticisms and constructive comments with sarcasm and insults, while failing to actually answer any of it with anything approaching a valid response. We internet trolls absolutely love stuff like that.
I think you have mistaken me for the user you were previously arguing with. My only point was that you were setting up straw men, and fantasizing about a world that matches our current one (for the parameters defined).
Are we seriously going to argue the ethics of killing people?
All I'm doing is removing the "slippery slope" from the debate... if something is worth killing anyone over, then why isn't it worth killing everyone over?
Interesting. I would have sworn it wasn't in the list when I searched for "minecraft" on the market a week or so ago. Might have been two weeks ago, though, which would explain why I didn't see it (It was released August 16th).
I got all excited seeing the title, thinking this was going to be something about space exploration and Redstone rockets or something of this nature. Turns out, it's about a freakin cellphone game.... what a gyp
Actually, it's a PC game. There isn't a cellphone client, yet.
Maybe a little research before making an idiot of yourself would be worthwhile.
Heck, maybe you should play the game and see what the fuss is about. It's free to play classic, and I'll bet you your lunch money that you can waste an entire lunch break just playing around with it.
To see some of the incredible things some people have done, just hit youtube and search for minecraft. There's everything from single-digit calculators to full 8-bit computer implementations.
You are too easily dismissive of things that do not fit your mold.
Disclaimer: I don't play MineCraft, mostly because paying 20 euros for a beta does not fit my budgeting needs.
The least that it is, it is a natural evolution of IRC; one can interact with other people's avatars, but the digital environment is much more appealing.
So, you're saying that we are experiencing the beginning of "the matrix", or whatever name you'd like to apply to "cyberspace", as described in books such as Neuromancer and Snow Crash, or game systems such as Shadowrun or Cyberpunk?
If you behave like a rabid dog, people not involved will get together and show you the real meaning of post-natal abortion.
War is something people don't like and try to avoid nowadays, but it is not possible to avoid an unpredictable genocidal maniac.
You obviously missed my point entirely, or TL;DR'd my post.
I am very anti-war. I am so against it, as a matter of fact, that I believe it should be a last resort measure, and implemented only if no other solution can be found. If it becomes necessary to implement a state of war to resolve the difference of opinion, then we are dealing with what is known as "irreconcilable differences". The idea of war being something to be avoided if at all possible dictates logically that if war is not able to be avoided, it should be ended as quickly as possible, with as few casualties on our side as possible.
In other words, if we can't avoid the armed and deadly conflict... "Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."
* with the exception, of course, that I proposed that nukes and bioweapons not be used, for the reason that they are environmentally damaging and cause issues for the new occupants of whatever area was occupied by the losers.
Has this ever happened to you? You work very horde on a paper for English clash And then get a very glow raid (like a D or even a D=) and all because you are the words liverwurst spoiler. Proofreading your peppers is a matter of the the utmost impotence.
This is a problem that affects manly, manly students. I myself was such a bed spiller once upon a term that my English teacher in my sophomoric year, Mrs. Myth, said I would never get into a good colleague. And thats all I wanted, just to get into a good colleague. Not just anal community colleague, because I wouldnt be happy at anal community colleague. I needed a place that would offer me intellectual simulation, I really need to be challenged, challenged menstrually. I know this makes me sound like a stereo, but I really wanted to go to an ivory legal colleague. So I needed to improvement or gone would be my dream of going to Harvard, Jail, or Prison (in Prison, New Jersey).
So I got myself a spell checker and figured I was on Sleazy Street.
But there are several missed aches that a spell chukker cant cant catch catch. For instant, if you accidentally leave a word your spell exchequer wont put it in you. And God for billing purposes only you should have serial problems with Tori Spelling your spell Chekhov might replace a word with one you had absolutely no detention of using. Because what do you want it to douch? It only does what you tell it to douche. Youre the one with your hand on the mouth going clit, clit, clit. It just goes to show you how embargo one careless clit of the mouth can be.
Which reminds me of this one time during my Junior Mint. The teacher read my entire paper on A Sale of Two Titties out loud to all of my assmates. Im not joking, Im totally cereal. It was the most humidifying experience of my life, being laughed at pubically.
So do yourself a flavor and follow these two Pisces of advice: One: There is no prostitute for careful editing. And three: When it comes to proofreading, the red penis your friend.
...if each establishment could open and close as it pleases...
They already do... some of them choose to be open during "normal business hours", others use their customer flow as an indicator of when the best time to be open is.
As for your comment:
... how would you like it if shops, banks and post offices only opened when you are sleeping?
If you work graveyards, they already do.
Sorry, did you have a point?
Oh, and one more thing...
Waking up earlier won't give me more free time in the evening, nor would it open restaurants and other places earlier.
The restaurants that want your business will be open when you want to eat there, and will serve the type of food that you want to eat. Jack-in-the-box has always had both breakfast and lunch food available whenever the doors are open, and McDonald's just decided they're open 24 hours a day because people have such varied schedules that there's always someone upset that you didn't stay open "just one hour later" so they could grab a bite on the way home from work.
Well, cedrics answer should help answer your question. I will try and add a few details.
Indeed, epoll et al. are based on polling and as such are non-preemptive. However, with proper language/runtime support, they can be coupled with a scheduler and turned effectively into lightweight preemptive multi-tasking. In Opa, the compiler inserts CPS breaks (i.e. opportunities for the scheduler to perform context-switching and/or to poll for the completion of lengthy I/O) wherever appropriate, with guarantees that any lengthy computation will be thus broken on a regular basis.
By opposition to pthreads/system threads, this mechanism lets us scale to millions of lightweight threads, all of them effectively executed concurrently. By opposition to the Node.js-style event-based approach, we are certain that no task will block and the style is more natural.
Am I understanding correctly that you have reimplemented threads on an application level, instead of the OS level? So your application's threads (fibers, whatever) can be pre-empted by the OS, because the OS doesn't care about your scheduler when it's handling its own processes?
Am I also understanding correctly that there's no priority system for your threading implementation?
The more and more of this thread I read, the less and less I think you guys are ready for prime time.
Your security is probably horrible, since you're cheerfully posting your project lead's email address unobfuscated in a public forum (in multiple places, even! Whoo!). That's alright, though, he doesn't actually use his mlstate.com email address for anything important, does he? He probably wanted a good hard test case for that new antispam software, anyway, and your mail server should hold up well to the flood.
Compound this with sarcastic remarks in response to what looks like legitimate feedback, and I'm wondering how long you guys have been out of the garage.
I was told by your chief architect to ping you for info on the licensing, so...
What's up with your insanely infectious, ridiculously restrictive licensing? How much does it cost to keep from having to open-source my code, just because it's written in your language? Do you really expect to achieve a legitimate user base, with an absurd license like that?
Your boy Sephiroth^W Seferino told me that he couldn't answer that question, after he went all astroturf on us, telling us how cool the coding is... passed the baton to you for "technical questions about licensing".
So, the ball's in your court. Tell us why we should even consider using your language, when anything we ever make with it becomes public domain unless we pay you for "protection". Tell us how it's not like the Greek Software Mafia.
Oh, and explain why your "Architect-in-Chief" can't spell your name. You might also want to talk to him about posting your COO's email address in the clear.
Good point. Unfortunately, as the CSO, I have strictly no say in the license. If you wish to discuss it with someone who does, you should ping phy_si_cal, our CEO and the OP of this thread, or send an e-mail to Mathieu Baudet, our COO.
Also, as I replied to him, openly admitting that you're slashvertising is bad form.
Disagreeing, yes. They claimed all kinds of things that taxation supposedly paid for. I posted a link with a different story to tell. If you couldn't tell the difference, then I'm sorry for your reading comprehension skills, and you should apologize to your teachers.
Did you read that story? The people whose house burned did not pay their fire department fee. Basically they were given the option of paying this tax, and did not. As a result, their house burnt down. This is exactly what would happen if the fire department were not tax supported at all.
Did you read that story? It wasn't a tax, it was a fee levied by the fire department for "protection". Any other "protection" schemes ring bells? How about the fact that it was an optional fee because they didn't live in the city? How about the fact that the trucks showed up anyway, and then stood there?
Also, at what point is it ok to stand there and watch while someone's entire life burns to ashes in front of you, when you're leaning against a truck full of water while You do it? when it's your JOB to put out fires?
Imagine how that felt, to see the fire trucks pull up, sirens and lights blaring, and then all the firefighters get out and stand there watching everything you own burn down, while you beg and plead with them to save some fraction of it.
Let me know where you live, I'll bring a lawn chair and marshmallows... and I doubt I'll be alone.
Mr Seferino, aka "Opa Architect-in-Chief"... you're doing a lot of astroturfing, but I haven't seen anything from you on the copious number of comments concerning your infectious and controlling license... even just a little pricing info would calm that kettle, and yet you haven't said word one about the licensing nightmare you're attempting to unleash, just how very cool your code is.
Until you decide to show us you're not gonna rape us with licensing, you're not gonna get much in the way of legitimate users.
Slashdot Mirror
"Open source" pretty much means "giving up your copyright"... I mean, honestly... how can you argue that we are keeping our copyright, if the code must be made public?
This, more than any other shortcoming of Opa, is what will kill you in the end. Requiring users to pay you some extortionate licensing fee or release their code into the wild is retarded, if you actually want to get anywhere.
Any arguments you might have about your fees not being extortionate are rendered null and void, completely moot, by your refusal to provide even a hint of your pricing scheme.
If you don't want people to shoot wide, gaping holes in your pet project, don't bring it to slashdot where all the geeks and nerds can see all of its flaws in the suddenly bright lights of internet fame (or infamy, as the case may be). Slashvertisement is sometimes tied closely to the Streisand effect, especially when you and your team of (non-)PR goons come on here to follow it up with apologetic gymnastics.
Better yet, you guys responded to valid criticisms and constructive comments with sarcasm and insults, while failing to actually answer any of it with anything approaching a valid response. We internet trolls absolutely love stuff like that.
Thanks for playing.
I think you have mistaken me for the user you were previously arguing with. My only point was that you were setting up straw men, and fantasizing about a world that matches our current one (for the parameters defined).
Are we seriously going to argue the ethics of killing people?
All I'm doing is removing the "slippery slope" from the debate... if something is worth killing anyone over, then why isn't it worth killing everyone over?
Interesting. I would have sworn it wasn't in the list when I searched for "minecraft" on the market a week or so ago. Might have been two weeks ago, though, which would explain why I didn't see it (It was released August 16th).
Thank you for the correction.
I got all excited seeing the title, thinking this was going to be something about space exploration and Redstone rockets or something of this nature. Turns out, it's about a freakin cellphone game.... what a gyp
Actually, it's a PC game. There isn't a cellphone client, yet.
Maybe a little research before making an idiot of yourself would be worthwhile.
Heck, maybe you should play the game and see what the fuss is about. It's free to play classic, and I'll bet you your lunch money that you can waste an entire lunch break just playing around with it.
To see some of the incredible things some people have done, just hit youtube and search for minecraft. There's everything from single-digit calculators to full 8-bit computer implementations.
You are too easily dismissive of things that do not fit your mold.
Disclaimer: I don't play MineCraft, mostly because paying 20 euros for a beta does not fit my budgeting needs.
The least that it is, it is a natural evolution of IRC; one can interact with other people's avatars, but the digital environment is much more appealing.
So, you're saying that we are experiencing the beginning of "the matrix", or whatever name you'd like to apply to "cyberspace", as described in books such as Neuromancer and Snow Crash, or game systems such as Shadowrun or Cyberpunk?
I think that you are missing the obvious: it worked.
Yes, yes it did. And now most of Slashdot is convinced you have a non-starter.
Good job!
If you behave like a rabid dog, people not involved will get together and show you the real meaning of post-natal abortion.
War is something people don't like and try to avoid nowadays, but it is not possible to avoid an unpredictable genocidal maniac.
You obviously missed my point entirely, or TL;DR'd my post.
I am very anti-war.
I am so against it, as a matter of fact, that I believe it should be a last resort measure, and implemented only if no other solution can be found.
If it becomes necessary to implement a state of war to resolve the difference of opinion, then we are dealing with what is known as "irreconcilable differences".
The idea of war being something to be avoided if at all possible dictates logically that if war is not able to be avoided, it should be ended as quickly as possible, with as few casualties on our side as possible.
In other words, if we can't avoid the armed and deadly conflict...
"Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."
* with the exception, of course, that I proposed that nukes and bioweapons not be used, for the reason that they are environmentally damaging and cause issues for the new occupants of whatever area was occupied by the losers.
... learn to write decently and proofread
FTFY :)
Taylor Mali already showed us that spell-checking is not safe.
The the impotence of proofreading
By Taylor Mali
www.taylormali.com
Has this ever happened to you?
You work very horde on a paper for English clash
And then get a very glow raid (like a D or even a D=)
and all because you are the words liverwurst spoiler.
Proofreading your peppers is a matter of the the utmost impotence.
This is a problem that affects manly, manly students.
I myself was such a bed spiller once upon a term
that my English teacher in my sophomoric year,
Mrs. Myth, said I would never get into a good colleague.
And thats all I wanted, just to get into a good colleague.
Not just anal community colleague,
because I wouldnt be happy at anal community colleague.
I needed a place that would offer me intellectual simulation,
I really need to be challenged, challenged menstrually.
I know this makes me sound like a stereo,
but I really wanted to go to an ivory legal colleague.
So I needed to improvement
or gone would be my dream of going to Harvard, Jail, or Prison
(in Prison, New Jersey).
So I got myself a spell checker
and figured I was on Sleazy Street.
But there are several missed aches
that a spell chukker cant cant catch catch.
For instant, if you accidentally leave a word
your spell exchequer wont put it in you.
And God for billing purposes only
you should have serial problems with Tori Spelling
your spell Chekhov might replace a word
with one you had absolutely no detention of using.
Because what do you want it to douch?
It only does what you tell it to douche.
Youre the one with your hand on the mouth going clit, clit, clit.
It just goes to show you how embargo
one careless clit of the mouth can be.
Which reminds me of this one time during my Junior Mint.
The teacher read my entire paper on A Sale of Two Titties
out loud to all of my assmates.
Im not joking, Im totally cereal.
It was the most humidifying experience of my life,
being laughed at pubically.
So do yourself a flavor and follow these two Pisces of advice:
One: There is no prostitute for careful editing.
And three: When it comes to proofreading,
the red penis your friend.
Nah, it happens all the time, we just usually troll it into the ground.
A little light reading for next time you're thinking about throwing yourself under a bus.
...if each establishment could open and close as it pleases...
They already do... some of them choose to be open during "normal business hours", others use their customer flow as an indicator of when the best time to be open is.
As for your comment:
... how would you like it if shops, banks and post offices only opened when you are sleeping?
If you work graveyards, they already do.
Sorry, did you have a point?
Oh, and one more thing...
Waking up earlier won't give me more free time in the evening, nor would it open restaurants and other places earlier.
The restaurants that want your business will be open when you want to eat there, and will serve the type of food that you want to eat. Jack-in-the-box has always had both breakfast and lunch food available whenever the doors are open, and McDonald's just decided they're open 24 hours a day because people have such varied schedules that there's always someone upset that you didn't stay open "just one hour later" so they could grab a bite on the way home from work.
Just picking a nit, but you converted a measure of length to a measure of volume in your rant against fractions.
How about Phoenix, AZ? It's in a different time zone from the entire rest of the state, half the year.
And let's not forget the other unusual time zones, all over the world.
Well, cedrics answer should help answer your question. I will try and add a few details.
Indeed, epoll et al. are based on polling and as such are non-preemptive. However, with proper language/runtime support, they can be coupled with a scheduler and turned effectively into lightweight preemptive multi-tasking. In Opa, the compiler inserts CPS breaks (i.e. opportunities for the scheduler to perform context-switching and/or to poll for the completion of lengthy I/O) wherever appropriate, with guarantees that any lengthy computation will be thus broken on a regular basis.
By opposition to pthreads/system threads, this mechanism lets us scale to millions of lightweight threads, all of them effectively executed concurrently. By opposition to the Node.js-style event-based approach, we are certain that no task will block and the style is more natural.
Am I understanding correctly that you have reimplemented threads on an application level, instead of the OS level? So your application's threads (fibers, whatever) can be pre-empted by the OS, because the OS doesn't care about your scheduler when it's handling its own processes?
Am I also understanding correctly that there's no priority system for your threading implementation?
The more and more of this thread I read, the less and less I think you guys are ready for prime time.
No windows port? seriously?
We did have a working Windows version and we may have it again. Now OPA is open source, maybe there are some volunteers to help us :) ?
Note that we will soon launch something that allows *everyone* to try OPA. Keep in touch!
Not just Open Source, but virulently so.
And just how many of you OPA guys are trolling this thread?
Your security is probably horrible, since you're cheerfully posting your project lead's email address unobfuscated in a public forum (in multiple places, even! Whoo!). That's alright, though, he doesn't actually use his mlstate.com email address for anything important, does he? He probably wanted a good hard test case for that new antispam software, anyway, and your mail server should hold up well to the flood.
Compound this with sarcastic remarks in response to what looks like legitimate feedback, and I'm wondering how long you guys have been out of the garage.
I was told by your chief architect to ping you for info on the licensing, so...
What's up with your insanely infectious, ridiculously restrictive licensing?
How much does it cost to keep from having to open-source my code, just because it's written in your language?
Do you really expect to achieve a legitimate user base, with an absurd license like that?
Your boy Sephiroth^W Seferino told me that he couldn't answer that question, after he went all astroturf on us, telling us how cool the coding is... passed the baton to you for "technical questions about licensing".
So, the ball's in your court. Tell us why we should even consider using your language, when anything we ever make with it becomes public domain unless we pay you for "protection". Tell us how it's not like the Greek Software Mafia.
Oh, and explain why your "Architect-in-Chief" can't spell your name. You might also want to talk to him about posting your COO's email address in the clear.
Good point. Unfortunately, as the CSO, I have strictly no say in the license. If you wish to discuss it with someone who does, you should ping phy_si_cal, our CEO and the OP of this thread, or send an e-mail to Mathieu Baudet, our COO.
Also, as I replied to him, openly admitting that you're slashvertising is bad form.
--
Batting a thousand today, aren't ya?
...and this one isn't even a clickable link. Oops.
And I didn't think about it before I hit submit, but did you just openly admit that this entire thread is a slashvertisement?
Bad form, sir. Bad form.
... and my point is made.
Nice sidestep.
Looking forward to seeing what replaces you.
Disagreeing, yes. They claimed all kinds of things that taxation supposedly paid for. I posted a link with a different story to tell. If you couldn't tell the difference, then I'm sorry for your reading comprehension skills, and you should apologize to your teachers.
Did you read that story? The people whose house burned did not pay their fire department fee. Basically they were given the option of paying this tax, and did not. As a result, their house burnt down. This is exactly what would happen if the fire department were not tax supported at all.
Did you read that story? It wasn't a tax, it was a fee levied by the fire department for "protection". Any other "protection" schemes ring bells? How about the fact that it was an optional fee because they didn't live in the city? How about the fact that the trucks showed up anyway, and then stood there?
Also, at what point is it ok to stand there and watch while someone's entire life burns to ashes in front of you, when you're leaning against a truck full of water while You do it? when it's your JOB to put out fires?
Imagine how that felt, to see the fire trucks pull up, sirens and lights blaring, and then all the firefighters get out and stand there watching everything you own burn down, while you beg and plead with them to save some fraction of it.
Let me know where you live, I'll bring a lawn chair and marshmallows... and I doubt I'll be alone.
Mr Seferino, aka "Opa Architect-in-Chief"... you're doing a lot of astroturfing, but I haven't seen anything from you on the copious number of comments concerning your infectious and controlling license... even just a little pricing info would calm that kettle, and yet you haven't said word one about the licensing nightmare you're attempting to unleash, just how very cool your code is.
Until you decide to show us you're not gonna rape us with licensing, you're not gonna get much in the way of legitimate users.