I wouldn't say it was wrong. That's not what I was saying at all. I was saying that "backing up" is a front for piracy and that if you break your games you can get new ones anyway.. and that they break rarely.
Backing up a CD-ROM game onto another CD-ROM makes sense. Backing up a dreamcast game onto CD-ROM using the ripping utils which pulls the movies and shit off doesn't make any sense.
True, I suppose situations where a better experience of playing the game on a different platform would facilitate a real use for moving the ROMs around to different platforms (in this case, gameboy->PC)
That also involves a change in media. I guess if you had some real reason you preferred a DC emulator on a computer over the actual DC, you would have to "back up" onto CD-ROM from the DC disc.. but that would result in a loss movies and stuff anyway which would suck:)
Since a Playstation uses CD's, there's no excuse:)
No, I think you're missing the point. You don't have to be in an agreement with someone in order to be prevented from stealing their property. Don't pick away at analogies like that unless they fail to make the point intended. Code obviously isn't the same as cars in many ways, but they are the same in the fact that Sega owns code and GM owns cars (before they sell them.)
Sega, since it's a corporation in the United States, can also view code as its physical property, not information. Your opinion doesn't matter on this issue.
Basically, it all goes back to the argument that people giving information should not be held responsible for those who choose to misuse it. If I put up a website about how to use a handgun, and someone uses my website to kill someone, that's not my fault.
Of course, the difference, at least to me, between Napster and this is that Napster actually supposedly does have some legitimate legal uses that are being executed (though slim, most people I know use it to just trade illegally copied MP3s, but maybe I'm crazy.)
As far as "backing up" your console games.. well, that's been the excuse of the console piracy scene since the NES.. and it's a load of crap IMHO. I don't know anyone who "backs up" their games, the people who are competent enough to find the information how to do so have always either not been using that information or been using it to pirate games. If your game breaks you usually beat the shit out of it after not playing it for a few years, and if it breaks while you're still enjoying it you return it. All my old NES games/Playstation Games work.
There's no question that the "backing up games" == "how to pirate games".. but, the question really is weither or not that sharing this information is illegal. I don't think it is, but I guess Sega thinks it is and that they can beat it out in court. Kind of unconstitional, eh?
Hey hey. I just was thinking the other day about how useful a distributed network would be for encoding DivX movies.. those things take FOREVER. We have a bunch of DVDs that we want in DivX so we can chop up the video and play with it (I have a digital camcorder and would love to try to put myself inside of "Die Hard", for example.)
I was going to look into it (just split the job up over my LAN inside my house here with 6 computers) and it seems the solution has come to me.. whoop! Anyone have any specific ideas how to go about making this distributed DivX encoding software quickly, now that this package is out?
Let me see, if there are ever any polls on the web for OS'es, what do we do, we hit them with scripts and basically fudge the results so Linux wins.
Now a company fudges their results and we complain. Everyone (us and them) knows polls are meaningless marketing tools, so who cares?
I'll laugh if any threads pop up here about the need for validity of poll results and how they should be true reflections of the internet population. Fat chance:)
Aren't there companies these days that buy computer parts in bulk and separate the precious metals out of the circuitry? I wonder if anyone can come up with a creative use for monitor and other peripheral leftovers..
Yeah well I realize that, but there are many daily activities in a house that result in lost energy which potentially could be recaptured and reused by re-storing it in the fuel cell. This couldn't be done previously b/c there was no central store of energy..
I wonder if this could be combined with other things in the house eventually that would allow the cell to be recharged in ways other than straight up fossil fuel energy. Say you're boiling water on the oven if that heat could be caught over the pot and stored back into the cell (this might be a bit off the wall, but you see what I'm getting at)
Having a central energy store such as a cell would make it easy to distribute energy sources for a home over a few different things.
The term "leet" is derived from the word "elite".. which is pronounced "e-leet".. hence the shortening.
The use of the word "leet" goes back to the days of BBSes (perhaps earlier, that's when I first heard it).. if your board was "elite" that meant you carried pirated software, amongst other things such as cracking utilities and such.
The phrase "leet" has evolved from the early use of the word "elite" and has shifted more towards script kiddies than piracy and real cracking, though it is still used freely in both respects. Also, as you pointed out, the use of 3's for e's goes back to the way these "leet" folk have continualy changed their "accent" in talking online.. in the early BBS days high ascii was used in certain cases, and now you will frequently see phrases such as "3y3 4m 4 l337 h4x0r!@$(%"..
I know this is probably not the whole story, but its my part from my perspective.. I unfortunately have never been extremely 1337:)
Well, at least here we see a corporation exposing security flaws, not hiding them. Question, are these researchers from Lucent Technologies or what? I didn't think there WAS a Bell Laboratories anymore (it broke off into Lucent a few years back, the company I currently work for)
Just glancing over these tools reminded me of something that I've heard is being done for MacOS X that I bet would be a good (albeit large) project for the OSS community to undertake.
Basically for OS X it sounds like all their configuration stuff is done using XML conf files. I'm betting that they're not really making all NEW UNIX conf files, but are adding a layer of XML above stuff (ie, your resolv.conf file is generated off of an XML file)
I think a project whose job would be to take many modern day UNIX configuration files (/etc/*) and translate them into XML formatted files would be quite useful. The logical progression of such a project would be to allow a "univeral" configure tool which would interpret the XML files to create an on screen configuration tool for whatever conf files are needed. This would eliminate the need for specific tools hardcoded for certain files (like the one seen on the Helix code site for configuring your nic's) and would become essential to setting up a Linux box for newbies.
I wasn't justifying MP3 piracy. (I am against what the RIAA is doing however, because one of their main motivations is controlling artists and their music. That's not the point of this post though.)
I was clarifying what the motivations are for Sega for shutting down ROM sites and why they are definately partially different from those fighting Napster. Sega has an obligation on the part of the copyright holders of their games to fight ROM piracy. The copyright holders want their protection. The RIAA has the same obligations to their artists, however, not all artists want them to fight Napster because the recording industry has "had them by the balls" for years now.
There is a bit of difference between the MP3 copyright issues and those faced by those of Sega/Nintento/whoever. In alot of cases, ROMs are licensed to Sega and have copyrights retained by dozens and dozens of various companies. Sega is responsible as well for upholding all those copyrights.
The thing that makes it tricky to "GPL" ROMs is the fact that permission would need to be asked of each of the companies who make ROMs (except for the ones developed in house by Sega, of course)
This is how it is with Nintendo, at least..I'm pretty sure Sega has the same issues. It's pretty understandable why they'd take action on ROM pirates.. not because it's in their own personal interest (ie, they're losing money), but because if they don't stand firm on the issue then the people whose ROMs are getting stolen may be hesitant to develop for them in the future.
I disagree that people should hold themselves back to do any type of development on top of this software, be it adding completely new features or mimicing ones seen in the non-free version. At least with something like MAX, there are a few reasons why I don't see this being a problem:
The reverse engineering involved would be really tough.. I'd expect there would be a ton of things in MAX that would be nearly impossible to replicate in the same way.
Kinetix/Discreet is going to ALWAYS be 100 steps ahead of the open source project. If they release something for free that could come close to their product in a relatively short period of time though the efforts of open source developers.. well.. that's their fault (and they're NOT going to do this)
Ktx/Dsct aren't going to "go under" if gMax somehow by some miracle becomes better than MAX (fat chance.).. They sell tons of plugins for MAX (that's what Discreet did before they merged with ktx) and make alot of profits from support and training.
By releasing gMax open source (under what license is still yet to be determined) they're pretty much letting developers have free reign over the code. If it just so happens that I found one of the controllers in MAX useful but lacking in gMax, and I realized a way to hack it out myself.. then IMHO there's no reason I shouldn't do it. If I do it better than they did, Ktx/Dsct can just nab my code for their latest closed version anyway.
This is really really incredible news. It's really shocking that Discreet/Kinetix would give away anything like this for free. The high end 3d market has been exclusively for those with deep pockets.. I'm wondering how feature-rich the gMax version of MAX will be.
Just the fresh blood in the 3d scene will be good to have (more people = better/more 3d tools and support), but the thing that really blows me away is the fact that it's OPEN SOURCE (!?!).. I wouldn't be surprised to see gMax evolve into the 3d equivalent of GIMP for Linux. When I get my hands on it, the first thing I'm gonna start trying to do is hack away to get all those features back into it that Kinetix took out from MAX! This could be a huge, rewarding, and enjoyable project.
I can't wait to see SGI's response, now that they've annoucned Maya for Linux.. the difference being that Maya is going to cost you a big chunk of change.. gMaya anyone?:)
Slashdot Mirror
I wouldn't say it was wrong. That's not what I was saying at all. I was saying that "backing up" is a front for piracy and that if you break your games you can get new ones anyway.. and that they break rarely. Backing up a CD-ROM game onto another CD-ROM makes sense. Backing up a dreamcast game onto CD-ROM using the ripping utils which pulls the movies and shit off doesn't make any sense.
True, I suppose situations where a better experience of playing the game on a different platform would facilitate a real use for moving the ROMs around to different platforms (in this case, gameboy->PC)
:)
:)
:))
That also involves a change in media. I guess if you had some real reason you preferred a DC emulator on a computer over the actual DC, you would have to "back up" onto CD-ROM from the DC disc.. but that would result in a loss movies and stuff anyway which would suck
Since a Playstation uses CD's, there's no excuse
(BTW - Gameboy Advanced looks cool
No, I think you're missing the point. You don't have to be in an agreement with someone in order to be prevented from stealing their property. Don't pick away at analogies like that unless they fail to make the point intended. Code obviously isn't the same as cars in many ways, but they are the same in the fact that Sega owns code and GM owns cars (before they sell them.)
Sega, since it's a corporation in the United States, can also view code as its physical property, not information. Your opinion doesn't matter on this issue.
Basically, it all goes back to the argument that people giving information should not be held responsible for those who choose to misuse it. If I put up a website about how to use a handgun, and someone uses my website to kill someone, that's not my fault.
.. well, that's been the excuse of the console piracy scene since the NES.. and it's a load of crap IMHO. I don't know anyone who "backs up" their games, the people who are competent enough to find the information how to do so have always either not been using that information or been using it to pirate games. If your game breaks you usually beat the shit out of it after not playing it for a few years, and if it breaks while you're still enjoying it you return it. All my old NES games/Playstation Games work.
.. but, the question really is weither or not that sharing this information is illegal. I don't think it is, but I guess Sega thinks it is and that they can beat it out in court. Kind of unconstitional, eh?
Of course, the difference, at least to me, between Napster and this is that Napster actually supposedly does have some legitimate legal uses that are being executed (though slim, most people I know use it to just trade illegally copied MP3s, but maybe I'm crazy.)
As far as "backing up" your console games
There's no question that the "backing up games" == "how to pirate games"
Made the front page of the Daily Sun today.. I can still use Napster today so it seems that they too should be on this list of schools.
Hey hey. I just was thinking the other day about how useful a distributed network would be for encoding DivX movies.. those things take FOREVER. We have a bunch of DVDs that we want in DivX so we can chop up the video and play with it (I have a digital camcorder and would love to try to put myself inside of "Die Hard", for example.)
I was going to look into it (just split the job up over my LAN inside my house here with 6 computers) and it seems the solution has come to me.. whoop! Anyone have any specific ideas how to go about making this distributed DivX encoding software quickly, now that this package is out?
Anyone else notice the first screen's start menu says "Logoff w00t killa" ? :)
Let me see, if there are ever any polls on the web for OS'es, what do we do, we hit them with scripts and basically fudge the results so Linux wins.
:)
Now a company fudges their results and we complain. Everyone (us and them) knows polls are meaningless marketing tools, so who cares?
I'll laugh if any threads pop up here about the need for validity of poll results and how they should be true reflections of the internet population. Fat chance
Aren't there companies these days that buy computer parts in bulk and separate the precious metals out of the circuitry? I wonder if anyone can come up with a creative use for monitor and other peripheral leftovers..
Ah I stand corrected. I was under the impression that fuel cells were a means of storing energy. Shrug.
Yeah well I realize that, but there are many daily activities in a house that result in lost energy which potentially could be recaptured and reused by re-storing it in the fuel cell. This couldn't be done previously b/c there was no central store of energy..
I wonder if this could be combined with other things in the house eventually that would allow the cell to be recharged in ways other than straight up fossil fuel energy. Say you're boiling water on the oven if that heat could be caught over the pot and stored back into the cell (this might be a bit off the wall, but you see what I'm getting at)
Having a central energy store such as a cell would make it easy to distribute energy sources for a home over a few different things.
The term "leet" is derived from the word "elite" .. which is pronounced "e-leet" .. hence the shortening.
.. if your board was "elite" that meant you carried pirated software, amongst other things such as cracking utilities and such.
.. in the early BBS days high ascii was used in certain cases, and now you will frequently see phrases such as "3y3 4m 4 l337 h4x0r!@$(%" ..
:)
The use of the word "leet" goes back to the days of BBSes (perhaps earlier, that's when I first heard it)
The phrase "leet" has evolved from the early use of the word "elite" and has shifted more towards script kiddies than piracy and real cracking, though it is still used freely in both respects. Also, as you pointed out, the use of 3's for e's goes back to the way these "leet" folk have continualy changed their "accent" in talking online
I know this is probably not the whole story, but its my part from my perspective.. I unfortunately have never been extremely 1337
It is my sig now. Sorry it's paraphrased and you don't get credit.. i couldn't fit the whole idea into less space :P
You are ridiculous and read too much Slashdot.
Kewl. I run and designed spg.web.lucent.com :)
Well, at least here we see a corporation exposing security flaws, not hiding them. Question, are these researchers from Lucent Technologies or what? I didn't think there WAS a Bell Laboratories anymore (it broke off into Lucent a few years back, the company I currently work for)
:) \/\/
P.S. - \/\/ Hit that link
Just glancing over these tools reminded me of something that I've heard is being done for MacOS X that I bet would be a good (albeit large) project for the OSS community to undertake.
:)
Basically for OS X it sounds like all their configuration stuff is done using XML conf files. I'm betting that they're not really making all NEW UNIX conf files, but are adding a layer of XML above stuff (ie, your resolv.conf file is generated off of an XML file)
I think a project whose job would be to take many modern day UNIX configuration files (/etc/*) and translate them into XML formatted files would be quite useful. The logical progression of such a project would be to allow a "univeral" configure tool which would interpret the XML files to create an on screen configuration tool for whatever conf files are needed. This would eliminate the need for specific tools hardcoded for certain files (like the one seen on the Helix code site for configuring your nic's) and would become essential to setting up a Linux box for newbies.
Just a hunch
I wasn't justifying MP3 piracy. (I am against what the RIAA is doing however, because one of their main motivations is controlling artists and their music. That's not the point of this post though.)
I was clarifying what the motivations are for Sega for shutting down ROM sites and why they are definately partially different from those fighting Napster. Sega has an obligation on the part of the copyright holders of their games to fight ROM piracy. The copyright holders want their protection. The RIAA has the same obligations to their artists, however, not all artists want them to fight Napster because the recording industry has "had them by the balls" for years now.
That was my point.
There is a bit of difference between the MP3 copyright issues and those faced by those of Sega/Nintento/whoever. In alot of cases, ROMs are licensed to Sega and have copyrights retained by dozens and dozens of various companies. Sega is responsible as well for upholding all those copyrights.
The thing that makes it tricky to "GPL" ROMs is the fact that permission would need to be asked of each of the companies who make ROMs (except for the ones developed in house by Sega, of course)
This is how it is with Nintendo, at least..I'm pretty sure Sega has the same issues. It's pretty understandable why they'd take action on ROM pirates.. not because it's in their own personal interest (ie, they're losing money), but because if they don't stand firm on the issue then the people whose ROMs are getting stolen may be hesitant to develop for them in the future.
- The reverse engineering involved would be really tough.. I'd expect there would be a ton of things in MAX that would be nearly impossible to replicate in the same way.
- Kinetix/Discreet is going to ALWAYS be 100 steps ahead of the open source project. If they release something for free that could come close to their product in a relatively short period of time though the efforts of open source developers.. well.. that's their fault (and they're NOT going to do this)
- Ktx/Dsct aren't going to "go under" if gMax somehow by some miracle becomes better than MAX (fat chance.)
.. They sell tons of plugins for MAX (that's what Discreet did before they merged with ktx) and make alot of profits from support and training.
By releasing gMax open source (under what license is still yet to be determined) they're pretty much letting developers have free reign over the code. If it just so happens that I found one of the controllers in MAX useful but lacking in gMax, and I realized a way to hack it out myself.. then IMHO there's no reason I shouldn't do it. If I do it better than they did, Ktx/Dsct can just nab my code for their latest closed version anyway.This is really really incredible news. It's really shocking that Discreet/Kinetix would give away anything like this for free. The high end 3d market has been exclusively for those with deep pockets.. I'm wondering how feature-rich the gMax version of MAX will be.
.. I wouldn't be surprised to see gMax evolve into the 3d equivalent of GIMP for Linux. When I get my hands on it, the first thing I'm gonna start trying to do is hack away to get all those features back into it that Kinetix took out from MAX! This could be a huge, rewarding, and enjoyable project.
:)
Just the fresh blood in the 3d scene will be good to have (more people = better/more 3d tools and support), but the thing that really blows me away is the fact that it's OPEN SOURCE (!?!)
I can't wait to see SGI's response, now that they've annoucned Maya for Linux.. the difference being that Maya is going to cost you a big chunk of change.. gMaya anyone?
If the users make the content, then how can it not be interesting? :) (BTW - it's 10,000 lines. I am a moron)
Heh. 100,000 line that is (always good to come off like a moron in the first few words :))
:)
Since I'm already posting this, might as well add some more info. It's running Java 1.1 servlets (JServ/Apache) with MySQL.
That's all
The should just mount a giantic spear on the front of it as they go. Free fish and blubber for everyone at the end of every trip!