Well, I've never lived in Israel, really, and I've never even been to Yesha, so on the matter of practical experience I must respectfully concede to you. I am aware that there is racism in Israeli society. It is not exclusively anti-Arab racism. The racism towards Sefardim and Mizrahim (to say nothing of that shown to Beta Israel) by Ashkenazim is appalling. The rabid hatred of the haredim on the part of chilonim isn't racism proper but is certainly a similar cultural bias which is almost universal throughout secular Israel. The point I'm trying to make (probably poorly) is that Israel struggles with issues of cultural bias like any other modern country. I sincerely doubt there is one that doesn't (Canada does a pretty good job, though). Critically, however, Anti-Arabism or any other caste system, with the possible exception of the Law of Return (which has analogues in many other countries), is not a matter of official Israeli policy.
While this fact does not excuse or exclude the prejudices held by society, it is relevant, especially when one compares Israel to surrounding nations. While doing so may seem to be a straw man, in this instance it is not. The differentiating factor is the fervent desire of several powerful nations neighboring Israel to see Israel removed from the map completely. Whether or not this wish includes genocide or merely forced removal is irrelevant. Such open hostility is not tolerated in any other part of the world. Why is tolerated here? When one of the countries in question is the Palestinian Territories, the relevance of the issue to Israeli sociocultural biases becomes clearer. The peoples you describe as being at the lowest rung of the Israeli caste system are not in fact Israeli citizens at all. They are citizens of a state which is openly hostile to the existence of Israel and who, for that matter, does not recognize the existence of Israel as a state at all. Is it really that surprising that citizens of such a state are subject to more thorough scrutiny than others, especially given the steady stream of violent attacks stemming from that state? By the way, don't think that I'm discounting Israeli violence against Arabs - I'm not, and it's just as bad. Still, most Arab countries limit the application of Israeli violence by not allowing anybody with so much as an Israeli stamp on their passport across their borders.
Incidentally, as I say, I've never been to the territories, but I find your likening of them to a giant refugee camp somewhat inaccurate. Most refugee camps do not have a multibillion dollar import/export industry, do not show economic growth over the past five years, do not hold free elections, have over 100,000 college students studying within its borders, etc.
By the way, I appreciate how civil this discussion has remained. Most of the other threads have disintegrated in to pointless flaming.
You keep saying that Israel imposes a caste system when Israeli law plainly does not discriminate against its citizens in any way. The color-coded license plates to which you refer distinguish between those who hold Israeli citizenship and those who do not. If Palestinian law permitted Jews to become citizens, those Palestinian Jews would theoretically have the same plates as Palestinian Arabs. I am deeply troubled by your allegation that Israel cares little for human rights, as they are the only country in the region with equal rights regardless of religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Israel is not a perfect country and I am no great fan of the government there but to hold a country to a higher standard than any other indicates a bias. Your flawed understanding of the region's history notwithstanding, you still failed to address the expulsion of settlers from Gaza in 2005.
The fact that there is no institutional racism in Israel is irrelevant to the allegation that there is?
There may be racism among the people of Israel, but it is not a matter of government policy, as with virtually every one of the state's neighbors.
Anyway, iIf comparison to surrounding countries is an invalid means of defending national policy, what do you suggest? Everything is something in comparison to something else, not on its own merit.
You know, I can't help but feel that there's a lot of anger in this post. I was picked on in high school too, but you know what? Having moved on, I no longer harbor anger or resentment towards people who may resemble, by their extracurricular activities, people who picked on me in high school. Above all, I don't resort to the kind of name-calling that reminds one of all too many calls of "NEEEEERRRRRRRRDDDDDDD".
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Well, I've never lived in Israel, really, and I've never even been to Yesha, so on the matter of practical experience I must respectfully concede to you. I am aware that there is racism in Israeli society. It is not exclusively anti-Arab racism. The racism towards Sefardim and Mizrahim (to say nothing of that shown to Beta Israel) by Ashkenazim is appalling. The rabid hatred of the haredim on the part of chilonim isn't racism proper but is certainly a similar cultural bias which is almost universal throughout secular Israel. The point I'm trying to make (probably poorly) is that Israel struggles with issues of cultural bias like any other modern country. I sincerely doubt there is one that doesn't (Canada does a pretty good job, though). Critically, however, Anti-Arabism or any other caste system, with the possible exception of the Law of Return (which has analogues in many other countries), is not a matter of official Israeli policy. While this fact does not excuse or exclude the prejudices held by society, it is relevant, especially when one compares Israel to surrounding nations. While doing so may seem to be a straw man, in this instance it is not. The differentiating factor is the fervent desire of several powerful nations neighboring Israel to see Israel removed from the map completely. Whether or not this wish includes genocide or merely forced removal is irrelevant. Such open hostility is not tolerated in any other part of the world. Why is tolerated here? When one of the countries in question is the Palestinian Territories, the relevance of the issue to Israeli sociocultural biases becomes clearer. The peoples you describe as being at the lowest rung of the Israeli caste system are not in fact Israeli citizens at all. They are citizens of a state which is openly hostile to the existence of Israel and who, for that matter, does not recognize the existence of Israel as a state at all. Is it really that surprising that citizens of such a state are subject to more thorough scrutiny than others, especially given the steady stream of violent attacks stemming from that state? By the way, don't think that I'm discounting Israeli violence against Arabs - I'm not, and it's just as bad. Still, most Arab countries limit the application of Israeli violence by not allowing anybody with so much as an Israeli stamp on their passport across their borders. Incidentally, as I say, I've never been to the territories, but I find your likening of them to a giant refugee camp somewhat inaccurate. Most refugee camps do not have a multibillion dollar import/export industry, do not show economic growth over the past five years, do not hold free elections, have over 100,000 college students studying within its borders, etc. By the way, I appreciate how civil this discussion has remained. Most of the other threads have disintegrated in to pointless flaming.
You keep saying that Israel imposes a caste system when Israeli law plainly does not discriminate against its citizens in any way. The color-coded license plates to which you refer distinguish between those who hold Israeli citizenship and those who do not. If Palestinian law permitted Jews to become citizens, those Palestinian Jews would theoretically have the same plates as Palestinian Arabs. I am deeply troubled by your allegation that Israel cares little for human rights, as they are the only country in the region with equal rights regardless of religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Israel is not a perfect country and I am no great fan of the government there but to hold a country to a higher standard than any other indicates a bias. Your flawed understanding of the region's history notwithstanding, you still failed to address the expulsion of settlers from Gaza in 2005.
What does the fact that the Israeli government removed settlers ("colonists") at gunpoint do for your caste theory?
The fact that there is no institutional racism in Israel is irrelevant to the allegation that there is? There may be racism among the people of Israel, but it is not a matter of government policy, as with virtually every one of the state's neighbors. Anyway, iIf comparison to surrounding countries is an invalid means of defending national policy, what do you suggest? Everything is something in comparison to something else, not on its own merit.
Compare the relative freedom of Arabs in Israel to that of Jews in Arab countries.
I think neglecting the potential for cheese mining is the real crime here.
P.S. Hello, Mr. Godwin.
Wow, sounds like the Geheime Staatspolizei are making their comeback.
You know, I can't help but feel that there's a lot of anger in this post. I was picked on in high school too, but you know what? Having moved on, I no longer harbor anger or resentment towards people who may resemble, by their extracurricular activities, people who picked on me in high school. Above all, I don't resort to the kind of name-calling that reminds one of all too many calls of "NEEEEERRRRRRRRDDDDDDD".
There wasn't a fee if you paid 0.