LOL. Reminds me of those youtube videos of morans breaking fluorescent bulbs on their backs.
I won't be buying them anymore (despite the 3 for $1 "deals" (taxpayers picking up the tab) they have all the time.
They produce shitty looking spirals of light, aren't instant-on, look ugly as fuck, are never the proper color, die way earlier than standard light bulbs, still don't fit in a lot of fixtures, and don't illuminate shit.
The only benefit I see to them is that they damage the environment.
To anyone who card about 1024/1000 in calculations, remembering wasn't an issue.
When storage manufacturers decided to lie, there were numerous lawsuits because people were getting less storage than they expected.
ibi was introduced afterwards.
Logical and inconsistent? Using 1024 is perfectly logical (more so than 1000). Computer science has been completely consistent about it.
Your beef is that your precious letters were reused. Too bad. Happens all the time. Nobody owns them - not you, not the engineers, not the standards bodies.
I actually have them memorized up to 16777216 just because I've used them so much.
Good ol' sixteen triple seven two sixteen.
And wikipedia is wrong again. They're just espousing the ibi bullshit in that article.
K, M, etc. can be either upper case or lower case, and it means 1024, when talking about bits.
In order of what you're most likely to see:
Kbps means kilobits per second. KBps means kilobytes per second. kbps means kilobits per second. K alone implies B, unless otherwise stated. (Though this one is so horribly abused by marketing, I would just say assume it implies b.) k alone implies b, unless otherwise stated. kBps means kilobytes per seond.
ibi was made up by some group with no authority to do so. The field laughed and rejected it. It has only added to the confusion.
What was done is correct because ANY assignment of prefixes is for convenience, and the decisions are at least somewhat arbitrary. Since the original usage of 1024 along with the K, M, etc notation is functionally complete, it is correct. Since it is the original system widely adopted, it should be preferred over all others to maintain compatibility and reduce confusion.
Just because it's stepping on the toes of another field doesn't mean it's wrong. Just look at the mess we have in math and physics. Look at all the horrible attempts to resolve it using the greek alphabet, stylized characters, little squiggly things, odd notation, subscripting, superscripting, etc.
That's 2^30. Most people can't do that, sure. Most people aren't engineers or scientists. Most people can't tell you the difference between a nanometer and a micrometer. Either way - are you telling me engineers can't do math? Are you telling me they don't have calculators? Are you telling me their back-of-the-envelope calculations have to be that precise?
It's wrong in the sense that they are using 10 and 1000 for factors, and that (if the universe is quantum) counting would be more accurate and more useful than measuring.
The universe may not be binary, but it's more efficient to use binary than 10 when representing it (assuming the universe doesn't happen to be decary).
Of course, this only matters on a quantum scale. Shit will still be x meters tall. If you want to get pedantic about it (and who doesn't when 1000/1024 comes up) counting states/quantum attributes is how you "measure" any quantum system.
Doesn't make sense to call a lot of things a lot of things. Get back to me when you've sorted out flammable and inflammable, all homonyms, and why restaurants give you a bill and call it a cheque.
I've explained it thousands of times by now. You seem to be awfully wrong about this. Perhaps you'd have better luck understanding it if you took a computer science course.
Also, google "morans" if you think I've spelled it incorrectly. Image search would be best.
Exactly why I said 1 KM * 1 KM = 1 SQUARE KM ----AND NOT---- 1 K SQUARE M
You seem to have missed the point - scalars are just numbers, and standard arithmetic math applies to them. They are not special, and there is nothing wrong with mixing them.
It's weird, sure, but no weirder than saying 3000 KM instead of 3 MM, or saying 1 tera thing = 1 million, million Watts, as the news so often does when explaining large numbers to the plebes.
There are no defined prefixes for it other than K, M, G, T.
Ki, Mi, etc. are bullshit that was made up because the morons in the "standards" bodies couldn't stand up to the fucking storage manufacturers. These "standard" prefixes will NEVER be adopted outside of the pretentious fucks on wikipedia. No computer scientist worth his silicon will ever adopt them.
Lots of things have two meanings. Lots of things require at least some semblance of knowledge. Deal with it.
Flash (and buses) have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before they could ever compete with current memory speeds.
Hint: Remember to include "Hint: you should learn what is meant by "failure"." when replying to morans who quote MTBF.
Hint: "Failure" means dying or doing stupid shit unexpectedly. If you're told to replace the drive ever year, or expect capacity to dwindle to 10% over the period, or other such nonsense, "failure" has a different meaning than what most people would think.
Exactly. So when I'm working with computers, you'll fucking excuse me for using base 2.
Early computer scientists picked what they wanted. I'm sure some guy out there picked out the term gram, and some guy picked out the term bit, and some guy picked out the term giga, and some guy picked out the term bushel, and some guy picked out the term second, and some guy picked out the term hogshead.
So what if computer scientists used something that was already used for something else? That's never happened before, right? No one has to know the difference between two terms or words that look or sound the same, right?
You know nothing about computers if you can't understand why they operate on a binary scale, and why it is correct to refer to things as such, and downright retarded to use something that is of a different base.
Lots of fields have things that mean different things.
Why did you post as AC? You know what a fucking baud is, and you could've posted this in reply to one of the morans who talked about network speed using classical measurements.
Yeah, you're wrong. Permutations/combinations is fucking essential in computer science, el oh el. But hey - that 8 bit color probably gives you great graphics, I mean, that's like, a lot of colors, right?
I already mentioned that the physical measurements are done in decimal. All logical (a bit is a logical element, not a physical one) stuff in a computer is (at the lowest level) binary. Clock speed is, decimal sure. Network speed is decimal, sure, when you're talking about BAUD. Storage density and network speed (in bits) is MIXED, and you've just opened up a whole other can of worms.
Hex is a representation for binary. All actual work on any binary cpu is done IN BINARY.
Everybody else will have a much easier time using 1024 when dealing with computers.
When is it ever a problem other than when people forget the difference? Do morons really need help calculating things? 1024 MB = 1 GB after all. Pro tip: Most computers can do calculations for you.
Memory is byte-addressable, after all. Clusters for storage are obviously using powers of 2. Characters are 1 byte. (2 for foreigny-type stuff.)
Asking scientists to dumb it down is retarded. Asking them to lie to users is retarded as well.
It's only an issue when some moron messes up and needs something to blame their mistake on. What, did you think 0x23 meant twenty-three? Does 777 mean seven hundred seventy-seven? No one ever bitches about hex, octal, or other schemes. It's always decimal cry babies who fucked up a calculation because they were lazy / out of their realm.
You don't see any computer scientists bitching about how they divided by 1024 instead of 1000 and fucked up.
Just because some assholes in suits say so doesn't make it true. Standards are nice, but things making sense is much nicer.
Engineers have no say in science. They apply the science done by the scientists, after plugging in their numbers into the equations figured out by the mathematicians.
I'd expect a mechanical engineer to deal with mechanical engineering problems. If they're dealing with computers in any way, they should know that 1 KB = 1024 bytes.
If you're dealing with oxen, you should know that a 12 oxen team has 10 oxen.
If you're baking, you should know what a baker's dozen is.
If you're sailing, you should know what a nautical mile is.
If you're broadcasting NTSC video, you should know that shit isn't really 30, nor is it 29.97 fps.
If you're drawing circles, you should know that pi isn't 3.14159.
It took you until college to memorize the SI system? You got a degree, and you still can't remember to use 1024? There aren't enough Os in LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL for you, sir.
Slashdot Mirror
Tell that to the environmentalists who won't let us build dams, water wheels, nuclear power plants, or anything that actually makes sense.
LOL.
Reminds me of those youtube videos of morans breaking fluorescent bulbs on their backs.
I won't be buying them anymore (despite the 3 for $1 "deals" (taxpayers picking up the tab) they have all the time.
They produce shitty looking spirals of light, aren't instant-on, look ugly as fuck, are never the proper color, die way earlier than standard light bulbs, still don't fit in a lot of fixtures, and don't illuminate shit.
The only benefit I see to them is that they damage the environment.
The IEEE is a joke.
No standards body has the right to decree random standards and expect everyone to follow it.
Storage manufacturers created the confusion.
To anyone who card about 1024/1000 in calculations, remembering wasn't an issue.
When storage manufacturers decided to lie, there were numerous lawsuits because people were getting less storage than they expected.
ibi was introduced afterwards.
Logical and inconsistent? Using 1024 is perfectly logical (more so than 1000). Computer science has been completely consistent about it.
Your beef is that your precious letters were reused. Too bad. Happens all the time. Nobody owns them - not you, not the engineers, not the standards bodies.
I actually have them memorized up to 16777216 just because I've used them so much.
Good ol' sixteen triple seven two sixteen.
And wikipedia is wrong again. They're just espousing the ibi bullshit in that article.
K, M, etc. can be either upper case or lower case, and it means 1024, when talking about bits.
In order of what you're most likely to see:
Kbps means kilobits per second.
KBps means kilobytes per second.
kbps means kilobits per second.
K alone implies B, unless otherwise stated. (Though this one is so horribly abused by marketing, I would just say assume it implies b.)
k alone implies b, unless otherwise stated.
kBps means kilobytes per seond.
ibi was made up by some group with no authority to do so. The field laughed and rejected it. It has only added to the confusion.
What was done is correct because ANY assignment of prefixes is for convenience, and the decisions are at least somewhat arbitrary. Since the original usage of 1024 along with the K, M, etc notation is functionally complete, it is correct. Since it is the original system widely adopted, it should be preferred over all others to maintain compatibility and reduce confusion.
Just because it's stepping on the toes of another field doesn't mean it's wrong. Just look at the mess we have in math and physics. Look at all the horrible attempts to resolve it using the greek alphabet, stylized characters, little squiggly things, odd notation, subscripting, superscripting, etc.
Transmission rates - in bits/second - are calculated using the CORRECT 1024 base.
When you are counting logical units you use 1024.
When you are measuring physical things you use 1000.
1048576
1048576 (max theoretical raw transfer rate)
I didn't use a calculator.
How hard is it to multiply things by 1024? Do it in steps of 2 if you have to.
Let's see how far I can get without a calculator or long pauses:
2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 1677216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824
That's 2^30.
Most people can't do that, sure. Most people aren't engineers or scientists. Most people can't tell you the difference between a nanometer and a micrometer.
Either way - are you telling me engineers can't do math? Are you telling me they don't have calculators? Are you telling me their back-of-the-envelope calculations have to be that precise?
It's wrong in the sense that they are using 10 and 1000 for factors, and that (if the universe is quantum) counting would be more accurate and more useful than measuring.
The universe may not be binary, but it's more efficient to use binary than 10 when representing it (assuming the universe doesn't happen to be decary).
Of course, this only matters on a quantum scale. Shit will still be x meters tall. If you want to get pedantic about it (and who doesn't when 1000/1024 comes up) counting states/quantum attributes is how you "measure" any quantum system.
Doesn't make sense to call a lot of things a lot of things.
Get back to me when you've sorted out flammable and inflammable, all homonyms, and why restaurants give you a bill and call it a cheque.
I've explained it thousands of times by now.
You seem to be awfully wrong about this.
Perhaps you'd have better luck understanding it if you took a computer science course.
Also, google "morans" if you think I've spelled it incorrectly. Image search would be best.
Exactly why I said
1 KM * 1 KM = 1 SQUARE KM
----AND NOT----
1 K SQUARE M
You seem to have missed the point - scalars are just numbers, and standard arithmetic math applies to them. They are not special, and there is nothing wrong with mixing them.
It's weird, sure, but no weirder than saying 3000 KM instead of 3 MM, or saying 1 tera thing = 1 million, million Watts, as the news so often does when explaining large numbers to the plebes.
There are no defined prefixes for it other than K, M, G, T.
Ki, Mi, etc. are bullshit that was made up because the morons in the "standards" bodies couldn't stand up to the fucking storage manufacturers. These "standard" prefixes will NEVER be adopted outside of the pretentious fucks on wikipedia. No computer scientist worth his silicon will ever adopt them.
Lots of things have two meanings. Lots of things require at least some semblance of knowledge. Deal with it.
Which makes this the equivalent of "BREAKING NEWS! Humans outnumbered by ants, researchers say. Is the battle for the planet about to begin?"
It's Inexpensive.
Marketing got away with the fucking KB = 1000 bytes bullshit too. Doesn't make them right.
Flash (and buses) have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before they could ever compete with current memory speeds.
Hint: Remember to include "Hint: you should learn what is meant by "failure"." when replying to morans who quote MTBF.
Hint: "Failure" means dying or doing stupid shit unexpectedly. If you're told to replace the drive ever year, or expect capacity to dwindle to 10% over the period, or other such nonsense, "failure" has a different meaning than what most people would think.
The metric system is better than the imperial system, sure.
I'm still waiting on metric time myself.
Exactly.
So when I'm working with computers, you'll fucking excuse me for using base 2.
Early computer scientists picked what they wanted. I'm sure some guy out there picked out the term gram, and some guy picked out the term bit, and some guy picked out the term giga, and some guy picked out the term bushel, and some guy picked out the term second, and some guy picked out the term hogshead.
So what if computer scientists used something that was already used for something else? That's never happened before, right? No one has to know the difference between two terms or words that look or sound the same, right?
Scalar * scalar = scalar.
Also, 1.2 is a scalar.
12 (scalar) kilo (scalar) meters (unit).
Or does basic math now fall prey to the "standards" ?
FUCK morons who don't understand basic math and science.
You want to use our computers? Then adapt.
You know nothing about computers if you can't understand why they operate on a binary scale, and why it is correct to refer to things as such, and downright retarded to use something that is of a different base.
Lots of fields have things that mean different things.
So which is it - based on 10 or 1000? Or 100?
Or am I supposed to forget about deci/deca centi/heca?
No reason you can't mix things that are just scalar multipliers. It's called math.
Seems to me 1 KM * 1 KM = 1 SQUARE KM, and not 1 K SQUARE M.
I observed it twice.
It was 0, then it was 1.
Also, it looked pretty granular.
Why did you post as AC?
You know what a fucking baud is, and you could've posted this in reply to one of the morans who talked about network speed using classical measurements.
Yeah, you're wrong.
Permutations/combinations is fucking essential in computer science, el oh el.
But hey - that 8 bit color probably gives you great graphics, I mean, that's like, a lot of colors, right?
I already mentioned that the physical measurements are done in decimal. All logical (a bit is a logical element, not a physical one) stuff in a computer is (at the lowest level) binary. Clock speed is, decimal sure. Network speed is decimal, sure, when you're talking about BAUD. Storage density and network speed (in bits) is MIXED, and you've just opened up a whole other can of worms.
Hex is a representation for binary.
All actual work on any binary cpu is done IN BINARY.
Completely, thoroughly, wrong.
Everybody else will have a much easier time using 1024 when dealing with computers.
When is it ever a problem other than when people forget the difference? Do morons really need help calculating things? 1024 MB = 1 GB after all. Pro tip: Most computers can do calculations for you.
Memory is byte-addressable, after all.
Clusters for storage are obviously using powers of 2.
Characters are 1 byte. (2 for foreigny-type stuff.)
Asking scientists to dumb it down is retarded.
Asking them to lie to users is retarded as well.
It's only an issue when some moron messes up and needs something to blame their mistake on. What, did you think 0x23 meant twenty-three? Does 777 mean seven hundred seventy-seven? No one ever bitches about hex, octal, or other schemes. It's always decimal cry babies who fucked up a calculation because they were lazy / out of their realm.
You don't see any computer scientists bitching about how they divided by 1024 instead of 1000 and fucked up.
WRONG.
Kilobyte means 1024 bytes.
Just because some assholes in suits say so doesn't make it true. Standards are nice, but things making sense is much nicer.
Engineers have no say in science. They apply the science done by the scientists, after plugging in their numbers into the equations figured out by the mathematicians.
I'd expect a mechanical engineer to deal with mechanical engineering problems. If they're dealing with computers in any way, they should know that 1 KB = 1024 bytes.
If you're dealing with oxen, you should know that a 12 oxen team has 10 oxen.
If you're baking, you should know what a baker's dozen is.
If you're sailing, you should know what a nautical mile is.
If you're broadcasting NTSC video, you should know that shit isn't really 30, nor is it 29.97 fps.
If you're drawing circles, you should know that pi isn't 3.14159.
It took you until college to memorize the SI system? You got a degree, and you still can't remember to use 1024? There aren't enough Os in LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL for you, sir.