Add to that the fact that most rural America sees a higher price because it is... usually dominated by a single monopoly... and there is your reason uptake is slow out here in the boonies.
There may be a "friend was able to get a $NKBps sustained transfer through the cable connection at the time of the experiment" part that we're missing from the description. Don't be so quick to jump on the "cable is shared so all of your neighbors always affect yer line's performance" bandwagon. Sometimes it really *is* a conspiracy.:)
This is the primary difference between the CDDL and the GPL? (Please correct me if I'm wrong. It happens a lot.)
3.6. Larger Works.
You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Software with other code not governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of this License are fulfilled for the Covered Software.
You're still on the hook for distributing the source code for the Covered Work and any Modifications. And you're free to distribute the binaries of the Covered Work however you please, so long as its source code is distributed under the CDDL. So, in *that* regard, it's identical to the GPL.
WRT the "arrogance" of GPL users: I use the GPL for my own work 'cause I want to see a self-perpetuating body of high-quality [0] work that anyone [1] can pick through and take parts from. You're free to not use my code. You're also free to take my code, compile it, and sell the result at any price.:) How do you feel about the LGPL?
[0] Yeah. I know. Most software is terrible. Free software is no exception. [1] Anyone who adheres to the terms of the GPL, natch.
In short, the certification would be locked to the "trotter's certified"...
That's strange. However, it jives with what I've learned from my experience w/ US governmental IT certification organizations. (The process is infuriatingly slow and inefficient, let me tell you what...)
Aye. However, they didn't have missiles that were fast enough to catch the plane. It's my understanding that some pretty impressive photos were taken from the BB that show it leaving incoming missiles in the dust.
Okay. From what I understand, your points are valid and relevant for those of us who are professional graphics manipulators.
So, lemmy rephrase my money quote: Just how many LOLCAT images will the average computer user be creating today? I'd wager that the differences between the Gimp and PS aren't worth ~450 USD to your average computer user.
This isn't the only issue in x.org, but it sort of highlights one of the big ones: x.org has some pretty big issues when it comes to doing graphics. That's why nVidia includes in their driver a rewrite of pretty much every bit of x.org that touches graphics. This in turn causes havoc of a new variety: does nVidia's twinview map nicely to xrandr/xinerama or does it get screwed up? (Answer: often the latter.) Issues that get addressed in x.org need to also be fixed in the nVidia driver if they exist there too, and vice versa. It's just not pretty.
This is one of the primary reasons why I'm very excited about Gallium3D: it's a modern graphic stack done by graphics gurus that is designed for the real world of hardware. I've seen it action, and it's impressive.
If I understand correctly, nVidia was (and still is?) pouring a lot of effort into rewriting x.org features, then keeping the improvements to themselves. They could be better citizens and distribute their modifications to the x.org folks. However, it's their code, and their hardware. They can do what they want with it. No rational person is gonna try to force them to relinquish their changes.:)
Now, the future of *any* open source project that has a large portion of its userbase which depends on a proprietary, closed-source component is threatened. What happens when the vendor goes tits-up? Fails to update for a new kernel? A new version of x.org? Stops updating the "Legacy" driver? Your users are sort of SOL, and there's nothing that you can do about it. OTOH, who says that the users *have* to update to the latest and greatest? It would certainly be nice for those of us who are creating next-gen desktop environments, but it's certainly not needed to get OpenGL functionality and a basic windowing system. *shrug* My weak arguments are weak.
I'm not convinced that using nVidia is bad for X.org anyway.
I'm not pushing the "nVidia is evil" POV. I'm pushing the "Relying on closed-source components is foolish" POV. Many folks don't agree with this. That's fine. I've never really convinced anyone of anything anyway. I'd be surprised if my weak-ass arguments did the trick in this instance.:)
...the lack of specificity and briefness of the post leads me to be suspicious.
10/4. I understand where you're coming from. This caution makes sense.
I notice that the Poster in Question hasn't replied yet. This makes me go:/
Slashdot is probably not the best place to get advice on installing and configuring Linux
Aye.
For the past few years I haven't had to resort to any configuration wizardry to get Linux running.
Aye. Aside from editing/etc/fstab, grub.conf, kernel configuration, timezone info, and adding new users (all during the initial install) _Gentoo_ _Linux_ doesn't require configuration wizardry to get it going.:D IIRC, there was a graphical installer project that did all of this for you. [It got canned due to lack of support. GUIs generally aren't the Gentoo way.;) ]
(even the search in the Windows desktop version is pitiful)
Heh. It's amusing that Thunderbird eats their lunch WRT search. *Doesn't like Thunderbird all that much, but it's WAAY better than the Outlook thick client*
I don't have access to any messages that I have filed in folders
I have a "Click to view all folders" link in the middle of the left-hand side of the Inbox view while using the Light client. [1] This link activates a pulldown menu that contains the names of the on-server folders that I have. I have no doubt that a turn of a configuration setting by your sysadmin could disable this feature.:)
[1] Our OWA login page has a copyright notice from 2006. I can't find any other version info.
*shrug* I imagine that re-writing all of their code to work with WinCE would be at least as expensive. If licensing the FAT driver invalidates their right to distribute code under the GPL, they may very well have to perform that rewrite:
Posts like that are made by Microsoft marketing people.
This is quite possible. I do try to give such posters the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they've run into a *really* interesting problem. (Or maybe they've run into something like Gentoo's [kinda recent and unavoidable from *any* way you looked at it] e2fsprogs-libs, ss, and com_err upgrade issue that could have been easily solved with five minutes with Google. *shrug*) Anyway. If the posters in question don't reply back with anything that's sensible, they get killfiled.
I know that we get the "Holy shit LEENUX SUXX, I CAN'T CONFGURE IT!!11" trolls in here on a regular basis. However, responses like these indicate to me that he's operating in good faith:
He *may* be trolling. Perhaps my troll-dar is poorly calibrated. Regardless... if he's looking for a *really* productive conversation, he's certainly not being sufficiently informative. I'm not sure that he *is* looking to have such a conversation. It sounds like he just wants to spend a couple of hours -max- on a new OS... no magical spirit journeys into configuration and troubleshooting will be accepted. I can respect this attitude. [2] I guess that he's here to counter the enthusiasm and maybe get a feel for the current state of Linux hardware compatibility. *shrug*
WRT MS OWA: My employer uses it for remote access. I don't have any real complaints. It lets me tx and rx email and check my calendar. It also works with firefox. What are your stories?:D
[1] I remember my initial forays into Linux from a life of MSDOS and Windows. This comment matches up pretty well my experience. I'm very glad that I took the time to learn how to use and configure Linux. It's been worth *far* more than the initial investment. [2] I'm not knocking Linux. (Check my posting history. I'm a very happy Linux user.) I hang out on a couple of LJ tech support communities. Most of the folks who have to embark on such a magical journey are Windows users. There just aren't enough dox around to help out these folks. At least with Linux, you usually have some good mailing list archives or high quality forums to sift through.:)
Sadly, looks like Gimp is a weenie next to Photoshop CS4.
Just how many LOLCAT images will the average computer user be creating today? I'd wager that the speed difference between the Gimp and PS isn't worth ~450 USD to your average computer user.
Hell, the Gimp is more than enough for what little graphics editing I'm called upon to do in the course of my duties to my employer.
Examples? My computer usage is undoubtedly atypical (and likely very different from yours). I find the packages provided by Gentoo Linux to be more than adequate for my needs.:)
Look. The PP hasn't specified *any* hardware details. He also mentioned that he's not willing to spend more than a couple of hours trying to get something to work. *Any* of us who have used Linux on more than one hardware configuration *know* that there are sometimes issues that can take *quite* a lot of digging to sort out. Naturally, once they've been sorted out, they're sorted for good. The PP's unwilling to put that time in, so his issues remain unresolved. That's his choice. This "it worked for me on hardware that's reported to work" comment is *not* friendly or helpful. Please don't use it on someone who's not trolling. [/friendly rant]
IIRC, there's nothing stopping the TomTom folks from commissioning improvements to it, or doing it themselves. I know that if I were in their position, I would not tie my product to a buggy IFS driver.
Is my rebuttal of the AC's "IFS drivers are *very* *likely* to cause instability" comment flawed or incomplete?
But what good does it do for anyone if it hardly works?
What's broken about it?
nVidia's drivers have done their job for me...
ATi has *NEVER* had good drivers. They fucking suck at writing drivers. They always have, and -if trends continue- always will. nVidia's rewrite of the majority of X.org graphics bits fails 'cause it's an ongoing *massive* duplication of effort. When the x.org folks put bugfixes or enhancements in to some component that nVidia has duplicated in their driver, everyone who depends on nVidia's software has to wait and see if nVidia will be arsed to fix their code. When everyone but nVidia decides to stop using a feature and move on to something different, nVidia's kinda stuck with all that effort that they put into a now-deprecated way of doing things.
I'd rather replace half of X.org with nVidia's code...
I suppose this means you don't care about the future of X.org? I understand that nVidia's policy is to *NEVER* help out open source. So, what they're doing makes perfect sense from that standpoint. However, it *never* makes long term sense for an open-source project to depend on closed-source binaries which provide a significant portion of the project's functionality. [1] You can't have a healthy project in this sort of scenario.
But, I digress. I assume that you don't give a flying fuck about the health of any of the projects behind the system that you use. You just want your system to work right now. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
[1] Wifi firmware is a whole other kettle of worms.
Slashdot Mirror
Add to that the fact that most rural America sees a higher price because it is ... usually dominated by a single monopoly ... and there is your reason uptake is slow out here in the boonies.
This is the PP's point. :)
Your conclusion is wrong here, unfortunately.
There may be a "friend was able to get a $NKBps sustained transfer through the cable connection at the time of the experiment" part that we're missing from the description. Don't be so quick to jump on the "cable is shared so all of your neighbors always affect yer line's performance" bandwagon. Sometimes it really *is* a conspiracy. :)
Let me be certain that I understand this:
This is the primary difference between the CDDL and the GPL? (Please correct me if I'm wrong. It happens a lot.)
3.6. Larger Works.
You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Software with other code not governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of this License are fulfilled for the Covered Software.
Pretty nifty.
Via: http://www.sun.com/cddl/cddl.html
You're still on the hook for distributing the source code for the Covered Work and any Modifications. And you're free to distribute the binaries of the Covered Work however you please, so long as its source code is distributed under the CDDL. So, in *that* regard, it's identical to the GPL.
...the GPL is fucking cretinous...
Cretinous? As in "Mentally retarded"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cretinism&oldid=276705806
WRT the "arrogance" of GPL users: :)
I use the GPL for my own work 'cause I want to see a self-perpetuating body of high-quality [0] work that anyone [1] can pick through and take parts from. You're free to not use my code. You're also free to take my code, compile it, and sell the result at any price.
How do you feel about the LGPL?
[0] Yeah. I know. Most software is terrible. Free software is no exception.
[1] Anyone who adheres to the terms of the GPL, natch.
Ah. Thanks for the info!
In short, the certification would be locked to the "trotter's certified"...
That's strange. However, it jives with what I've learned from my experience w/ US governmental IT certification organizations. (The process is infuriatingly slow and inefficient, let me tell you what...)
The current generation of SAMs from Russia can pull Mach 14...
But what is their effective intercept range?
Regardless. This is all moot. Satellite surveillance and UAVs have rendered the Blackbird irrelevant. :)
Aye. However, they didn't have missiles that were fast enough to catch the plane. It's my understanding that some pretty impressive photos were taken from the BB that show it leaving incoming missiles in the dust.
Who mentioned anything about the Chinese?
it's a pain to dual-boot.
My anecdotal evidence disagrees with yours.
Okay. From what I understand, your points are valid and relevant for those of us who are professional graphics manipulators.
So, lemmy rephrase my money quote:
Just how many LOLCAT images will the average computer user be creating today? I'd wager that the differences between the Gimp and PS aren't worth ~450 USD to your average computer user.
First off, what's currently broken about the bits that nVidia has reimplemented?
In which case I don't see how they're holding back the project.
Meh. You're right I was overreaching. The only thing that I have to that _remotely_ supports my position is a post by Aaron Siego:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/09/on-kde4-performance.html
The money quote is here:
This isn't the only issue in x.org, but it sort of highlights one of the big ones: x.org has some pretty big issues when it comes to doing graphics. That's why nVidia includes in their driver a rewrite of pretty much every bit of x.org that touches graphics. This in turn causes havoc of a new variety: does nVidia's twinview map nicely to xrandr/xinerama or does it get screwed up? (Answer: often the latter.) Issues that get addressed in x.org need to also be fixed in the nVidia driver if they exist there too, and vice versa. It's just not pretty.
This is one of the primary reasons why I'm very excited about Gallium3D: it's a modern graphic stack done by graphics gurus that is designed for the real world of hardware. I've seen it action, and it's impressive.
If I understand correctly, nVidia was (and still is?) pouring a lot of effort into rewriting x.org features, then keeping the improvements to themselves. They could be better citizens and distribute their modifications to the x.org folks. However, it's their code, and their hardware. They can do what they want with it. No rational person is gonna try to force them to relinquish their changes. :)
Now, the future of *any* open source project that has a large portion of its userbase which depends on a proprietary, closed-source component is threatened. What happens when the vendor goes tits-up? Fails to update for a new kernel? A new version of x.org? Stops updating the "Legacy" driver? Your users are sort of SOL, and there's nothing that you can do about it.
OTOH, who says that the users *have* to update to the latest and greatest? It would certainly be nice for those of us who are creating next-gen desktop environments, but it's certainly not needed to get OpenGL functionality and a basic windowing system.
*shrug* My weak arguments are weak.
I'm not convinced that using nVidia is bad for X.org anyway.
I'm not pushing the "nVidia is evil" POV. I'm pushing the "Relying on closed-source components is foolish" POV. Many folks don't agree with this. That's fine. I've never really convinced anyone of anything anyway. I'd be surprised if my weak-ass arguments did the trick in this instance. :)
Each one of those links is dead. (I even enabled javascript) Did you get the news_id number correct?
...the lack of specificity and briefness of the post leads me to be suspicious.
10/4. I understand where you're coming from. This caution makes sense.
I notice that the Poster in Question hasn't replied yet. This makes me go :/
Slashdot is probably not the best place to get advice on installing and configuring Linux
Aye.
For the past few years I haven't had to resort to any configuration wizardry to get Linux running.
Aye. /etc/fstab, grub.conf, kernel configuration, timezone info, and adding new users (all during the initial install) _Gentoo_ _Linux_ doesn't require configuration wizardry to get it going. :D IIRC, there was a graphical installer project that did all of this for you. [It got canned due to lack of support. GUIs generally aren't the Gentoo way. ;) ]
Aside from editing
(even the search in the Windows desktop version is pitiful)
Heh. It's amusing that Thunderbird eats their lunch WRT search.
*Doesn't like Thunderbird all that much, but it's WAAY better than the Outlook thick client*
I don't have access to any messages that I have filed in folders
I have a "Click to view all folders" link in the middle of the left-hand side of the Inbox view while using the Light client. [1] This link activates a pulldown menu that contains the names of the on-server folders that I have. I have no doubt that a turn of a configuration setting by your sysadmin could disable this feature. :)
[1] Our OWA login page has a copyright notice from 2006. I can't find any other version info.
It makes very little business sense.
*shrug*
I imagine that re-writing all of their code to work with WinCE would be at least as expensive. If licensing the FAT driver invalidates their right to distribute code under the GPL, they may very well have to perform that rewrite:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1159141&cid=27177465
Fat works on anything just about. It's part open and a standard that just about any device and operating system can use.
ext2 is completely open and unencumbered by patents. ext2 works out of the box on any non-MSFT system. :)
Posts like that are made by Microsoft marketing people.
This is quite possible. I do try to give such posters the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they've run into a *really* interesting problem. (Or maybe they've run into something like Gentoo's [kinda recent and unavoidable from *any* way you looked at it] e2fsprogs-libs, ss, and com_err upgrade issue that could have been easily solved with five minutes with Google. *shrug*)
Anyway. If the posters in question don't reply back with anything that's sensible, they get killfiled.
Thanks for chiming in with your content free post. You're not even the guy that I was talking to. :)
If you'd care to set out some examples (or link me to the relevant dox) you'd make me a very happy man.
I know that we get the "Holy shit LEENUX SUXX, I CAN'T CONFGURE IT!!11" trolls in here on a regular basis. However, responses like these indicate to me that he's operating in good faith:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1160325&cid=27189385
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1160325&cid=27189417 [1]
He *may* be trolling. Perhaps my troll-dar is poorly calibrated. Regardless... if he's looking for a *really* productive conversation, he's certainly not being sufficiently informative.
I'm not sure that he *is* looking to have such a conversation. It sounds like he just wants to spend a couple of hours -max- on a new OS... no magical spirit journeys into configuration and troubleshooting will be accepted. I can respect this attitude. [2] I guess that he's here to counter the enthusiasm and maybe get a feel for the current state of Linux hardware compatibility. *shrug*
WRT MS OWA: My employer uses it for remote access. I don't have any real complaints. It lets me tx and rx email and check my calendar. It also works with firefox. What are your stories? :D
[1] I remember my initial forays into Linux from a life of MSDOS and Windows. This comment matches up pretty well my experience. I'm very glad that I took the time to learn how to use and configure Linux. It's been worth *far* more than the initial investment. :)
[2] I'm not knocking Linux. (Check my posting history. I'm a very happy Linux user.) I hang out on a couple of LJ tech support communities. Most of the folks who have to embark on such a magical journey are Windows users. There just aren't enough dox around to help out these folks. At least with Linux, you usually have some good mailing list archives or high quality forums to sift through.
...it fails pretty badly for a serious user.
A serious Word user, or a serious wordprocessing/layout program user?
Sadly, looks like Gimp is a weenie next to Photoshop CS4.
Just how many LOLCAT images will the average computer user be creating today? I'd wager that the speed difference between the Gimp and PS isn't worth ~450 USD to your average computer user.
Hell, the Gimp is more than enough for what little graphics editing I'm called upon to do in the course of my duties to my employer.
Linux applications just aren't up to snuff.
Examples? My computer usage is undoubtedly atypical (and likely very different from yours). I find the packages provided by Gentoo Linux to be more than adequate for my needs. :)
...get pissed off because of the damned dependency hell...
Examples?
Be aware that you're talking to a Gentoo Linux veteran of seven years. :)
that's strange because that worked for me.
Look. The PP hasn't specified *any* hardware details. He also mentioned that he's not willing to spend more than a couple of hours trying to get something to work.
*Any* of us who have used Linux on more than one hardware configuration *know* that there are sometimes issues that can take *quite* a lot of digging to sort out. Naturally, once they've been sorted out, they're sorted for good. The PP's unwilling to put that time in, so his issues remain unresolved. That's his choice.
This "it worked for me on hardware that's reported to work" comment is *not* friendly or helpful. Please don't use it on someone who's not trolling.
[/friendly rant]
IIRC, there's nothing stopping the TomTom folks from commissioning improvements to it, or doing it themselves. I know that if I were in their position, I would not tie my product to a buggy IFS driver.
Is my rebuttal of the AC's "IFS drivers are *very* *likely* to cause instability" comment flawed or incomplete?
But what good does it do for anyone if it hardly works?
What's broken about it?
nVidia's drivers have done their job for me...
ATi has *NEVER* had good drivers. They fucking suck at writing drivers. They always have, and -if trends continue- always will.
nVidia's rewrite of the majority of X.org graphics bits fails 'cause it's an ongoing *massive* duplication of effort. When the x.org folks put bugfixes or enhancements in to some component that nVidia has duplicated in their driver, everyone who depends on nVidia's software has to wait and see if nVidia will be arsed to fix their code. When everyone but nVidia decides to stop using a feature and move on to something different, nVidia's kinda stuck with all that effort that they put into a now-deprecated way of doing things.
I'd rather replace half of X.org with nVidia's code...
I suppose this means you don't care about the future of X.org? I understand that nVidia's policy is to *NEVER* help out open source. So, what they're doing makes perfect sense from that standpoint. However, it *never* makes long term sense for an open-source project to depend on closed-source binaries which provide a significant portion of the project's functionality. [1] You can't have a healthy project in this sort of scenario.
But, I digress. I assume that you don't give a flying fuck about the health of any of the projects behind the system that you use. You just want your system to work right now. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
[1] Wifi firmware is a whole other kettle of worms.