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Microsoft-Novell Relationship Hits the Skids
Anonymous writes "According to Channelweb, the bloom might be off the rose in the Novell-Microsoft relationship: the two companies didn't sign a single, solitary large customer to a Novell Linux deal during the most recent quarter. 'So Novell, one of the biggest Linux distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in world history, couldn't find a single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server software. Novell CEO Ron Hovsepian has stepped up and, rather than point fingers at Microsoft for that performance, put the blame on his company and its inability to strengthen its reseller channel.'"
Who buys Linux in an economy like this?
And I'm sure that all the hiring-freezes, paycuts, forced unpaid furloughs, capital freezes, capital audits, travel restrictions, quarter-by-quarter purchase order approval budget oversight procedures, executive-authorization-required-for-new-staplers, and restructurings that we see in most of the Fortune 1000 have nothing to do with this.
[
Microsoft developers are working on SkipMark(R) version 1.0 even as we speak.
It seems that M$ is commited to destroy everything around Linux, don't trust them never in your life.
Wrap it up. I'll buy one.
"I guess I'm gonna fade into Bolivian."
Really, Novell doesn't do marketing. They had the most reliable server OS for connecting windows boxes, and Microsoft came and ate their lunch with an inferior (and more expensive) product. Did someone really expect that all of a sudden, Novell would discover the secret to marketing and manage to sell something? Even after striking a deal with Microsoft, they still need to be able to sell their own product - or at least make it look like they are selling their own product.
Being as they won't likely be able to get (many of) the former Novell shops back to NetWare, if they are planning to revive their company by selling Linux, their goose is cooked.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
OK, cue the violins! Now, all of you at once!
AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
That's quite a violent approach to the problem. Invalidate all software patents? I don't think Apple would approve, as that would be the end of their business. But you really meant invalidate all of MSFT's right?
TFA seems to muddle together a bunch of different issues.
One is the purely Novell issue of not being good at selling stuff. Which might be true (though I spend a lot of time dealing with SLES issues at the hardware vendor I work for) but really doesn't have anything to do with the Novell-Microsoft deal.
Another issue is the core of the Novell-MS partnership: interoperability. AFAIK, that part is working well.
Finally, there's the fact that MS is committed to supported mixed Windows-SLES installation, but hasn't bothered to actually sell any SLES licenses. Really, what else do you expect? People actually making deals based on technology they've worked with for years are not going to change their strategies just because management says so. IBM never could get its people to sell OS/2 instead of Windows, and Sun salespeople often continue to push SPARC products to all their customers, even though Sun is now in the x86 business. And in the case of MS, they have particularly limited motivation to sell Linux, since doing so would not actually generate any extra profits for MS.
Novell has been clue-less since Version 3.x - If it wasn't for all the old Novell-Fanboys in the world, they would have been belly-up years ago. Not that they HAD bad products - quite the contrary - they just couldn't sell anything to save their soul...
Well, did you send flowers? No. Did you write anything but crappy emo poetry? No. Actually, no poetry at all. How about flaunting yourself in tight outfits, or at least making some minimal effort to be sexual? No there too. And apparently Microsoft is a louzy kisser (way too much tongue). Big surprise the relationship failed.
More seriously: What do these people expect? The economy is crap. Nobody's going to be trying anything new right now. And neither side spent much on marketing from everything I'm reading. And at any rate, their marketing strategy is crabbed -- you open with support, not a feature set. Whatever feature set is being offered better be one for one what they have now or don't even bother. Support is the key here -- they should have been screaming "We have technicians trained for this! Really! More than you can fit on a bus!" Except that would be a lie. So they focus on what they can effect: Which is some limited marketing propaganda that won't fool anyone. Microsoft lost its crown jewels when Vista tanked. Now everything they say comes under scrutiny -- Apple's been taking free potshots at them in the general media for about a year now and I see average people parroting those "Hi, I'm a Mac; Hi, I'm a PC" commercials. This relationship needs some pizzaz back in it, and instead Novell comes home to Microsoft wearing a familiar wonderbra and fishnet stockings?! Seriously, we're all supportive of Microsoft getting in touch with it's softer, less monopolistic side, but crossdressing in linux is not the answer. -_-
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Novel needs to pull their collective heads out of their asses if they want to live on...They haven't done a bit of successful advertising since the 2000 superbowl, and that is questionable! They just don't seem to understand the fact that you need to have your shit in front of people in order to get them to buy it. Then they canceled Brain Share, that was the only place anyone ever gets the scoop on what they are doing. Damn! Why are they so stupid?!?
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
It use to be that Novell stuff was extremely difficult to setup, but once you got it running it ran for ever. Like the difference between a Cisco router and a $20 DLINK.
Anyone still using Novell software today? It's crap. Zenworks 10.1.3 blows up if you try to use it to delete a registry key. It's a known defect a year after the product has been released.
Check their forums, their software is crap. http://forums.novell.com/ In there you can see they are bleeding customers.
> 'So Novell, one of the biggest Linux
> distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of
> the biggest companies in world history, couldn't
> find a single large customer on Planet Earth to
> buy into Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server
> software.
Why can't you simply cut and paste instead of putting your own lying slant on things?
You Imply Novell never signed any SLES customers, which is not true.
The actual article stated:
"During the first quarter of fiscal 2009, we did not sign any large deals, many of which have been historically fulfilled by SUSE Linux Enterprise Server ("SLES") certificates delivered through Microsoft."
So Microsoft didn't even try to sell these certificates for SLES. Novell still sold SLES, probably to the very same customers that send Microsoft packing.
How hard do you suppose Microsoft tried to sell these certificates?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
IBM has been actively pushing SUSE for zSeries virtualization customers. We were one of the minority of zSeries customers who chose Redhat and it was always amusing to read IBM's tailored-for-SUSE documentation.
I'd blame the poor sales on the economy, but it is fun to jab at the two big SUSE backers:
1. IBM ("We pretend to support open source but really only use open source where it could potentially lock a customer into a proprietary upgrade cycle for a product that runs on an open source platform")
2. Microsoft ("We don't even pretend to like open-source (does that make us more honest than IBM?)")
Novell has ALWAYS sucked at Marketing. One reason why we have Microsoft servers today.
Little girls, like butterflies, need no excuse. -- L. Long
Quote from the story: "... didn't sign a single, solitary large customer..."
Who would want an amazingly badly managed company and a routinely abusive company as partners? Even pointy-haired bosses are not completely detached from reality.
Ohhh... You want abuse. This is mis-management. Abuse is two doors down.
CEO Ron Hovsepian is right; the buck stops with Novell. They're to blame. Not because their retail channel needs to be tweaked. But rather, they got in to bed with Microsoft! I mean, c'mon. Your hedging your bets on a technology that your partner is busy trying to bury. Yeah, sure... Microsoft is trying to help make Windows and Linux work together. Meanwhile, Microsoft's CEO is discussing Linux and so-called IP law like Eddy Izzard discussing the mortality of Englebert Humperdink. And Novell wants people to pay for the privilege of getting in to the middle of that?
Over the past few years, I've purchased licenses for Windows, Solaris, and Linux. Not once during these procurements did the name "Novell" come to mind.
1. IBM ("We pretend to support open source but ...
I'd say playing "mill of the gods" and grinding SCO exceedingly fine constitutes more than just "pretend" support for open source.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Anybody have any figures for how Red Hat (and Canonical) are doing?
we must not be far enough in debt yet? better days ahead.
So Novell, one of the biggest Linux distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in world history, couldn't find a single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server software.
I know this is a lie. I know two large companies that make wide use of SLES and SLED.
And did they buy into it this quarter?
I was going to go with "and nothing of value was lost".
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Didn't they used to do networking or something? I remember seeing the red boxes, but the people who sat in the cubicles with the red boxes were unhappy as a rule.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Now, I hear tell about a Very Large, Three-year contract with the USPS to deploy Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise product. I haven't heard of any strict Microsoft involvement, but between HP's consultancy wing, and every major recruitment firm in the U.S., they are apparently having a heckuva time locating an individual with the desired level of competency in some of Novell's Linux deployment technologies, namely AutoYaST, particularly scaled to the level they are deploying at.
That aside, this is a deployment of significant scale and importance, and in my humble opinion, negates the claim of there not being a 'single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server software', Good Sir.
HP is proposing an infrastructure solution to support the mission critical US Postal Service project that will modernize the existing USPS.com environment. USPS' objectives are to create a new USPS.com portal that will enhance user experience, provide flexibility to meet market needs, simplify operations and create a venue for additional revenue generation.
Oh yeah, Wal-Mart has apparently been struggling to keep someone on for their IBM/SLES deployment. This has been going on for a year now - a month or two at a time. They're not exactly small-time, either.
I don't know, it just sucks that the difference between Redhat and SuSE is so great when it comes to the number of active installations, and how stably they appear to be supported. Maybe it's because I've tried to specialize on SLES during the past few years (having worked on another couple of large-scale SLES deployments), and I'm exposed to all these reqs, but with what amounts to German vs. North Carolinian Engineering, (no offense intended), I'm confused and saddened by the fact that there aren't more SLES/SLED deployments.
People that figured out that using Linux is still cheaper than being sued by MS, even if they could drag every user in to court.
Living in Chile
Any consulting company or person that supports Linux is no different than a company or individual that supports Windows - with some important exceptions.
One big one is the Linux consultants will spend more time actually getting work done instead of having to spend it evaluating break-ins, removing malware, etc.
Or are you just referring to all the extra business that Windows consultants get for those very reasons?
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2342736,00.asp
http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/20/0,1425,sz=1&i=202463,00.jpg
Sadly, looks like Gimp is a weenie next to Photoshop CS4. Well, at least it's about on the same level as PaintshopPro X2...
Hovsipid is taking the blame. "The problem is that our products suck", he believes. "Microsoft's sales teams did their best, but they just couldn't move our Linux product even for free in the face of entrenched Windows product, especially since that solution doesn't suck" he estimates. Despite press protestations he insisted on going on: "When I don't work here I will prefer their stuff too. We will not, however, be returning the money. No returns. As some wise person said two years ago, maybe the certificates will make nice wallpaper for those new offices in Redmond".
On a completely unrelated note, Novell has announced that Mr. Hovsepian has decided to retire and spend more time with his family.
This press release includes "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions of the United States Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Words such as "expect," "estimate," "project," "budget," "forecast," "anticipate," "intend," "plan," "may," "will," "could," "should," "believes," "predicts," "potential," "continue," and similar expressions are intended to identify such forward-looking statements. Any similarity between this post and actual persons or events is specifically denied. This is a work of fiction, and any similarity to persons or corporations living, dead or in receivership is categorically denied. Mr. Hovesepian didn't say any of this stuff. I don't work for any of these retards. He's not retiring. His family disowned him long ago. Don't sue me, k?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
How long will it take their phone partners to learn the Sendo lesson?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Ok, here goes.
Novell couldn't sell ice water in the desert to a man dying of thirst. They couldn't hardly give it to them.
Have you seen Groupwise 8? More functionality than M$ Outlook / Exchange ... And the back end a zillion times more stable than pub.edb and/or priv.edb
Netware 6.5 -- yeah a little long in the tooth, but I have servers that are 1-2 years ... YEARS in uptime. Only things that beat that are Cisco switches.
SLES .. hmmm. Yeah. Not sure i'm into that, just yet. Have I run one? Sure. Did I like it? Jury's still out.
I emailed Hovespain and told him .. give the core products away free. Groupwise. Netware. SLES / eDirectory. maybe Zen 4 Desktops. Sell support. Get it out there. M$ can't compete with free.
but Novell can't market..
= Grow a brain...
Just because Microsoft (I can't imagine buying Linux licenses from Microsoft EVER!) didn't sell a license doesn't mean that Novell and their partners didn't.
Actually didn't my boss sell some SLES licenses the other day?...
I'll take a wild stab its the image of Microsoft involvement that are keeping people aaway from it.... Linux controls the server market for one reason, techies control it... and these intelligent people simply don't trust Microsoft involvment, give me Ubuntu plus canonical support any day
that's what, except for software, you have to give up when patenting: the code for how to make the patented product.
Double-D.
Since a wordprocessor is NOT a DTP package, when you start using it as a DTP package, you have to fight the software to get it to do what you want. After many many months of hard labour, you find what works, what doesn't and what you do to make it do what it can in DTP.
And then ANY CHANGE will kill all that knowledge.
Your inability to use OpenOffice for "serious" work is because neither are a DTP program but you want to use it as such. What WILL NOT WORK on MSOffice may well work on OpenOffice, but you have learned to do without it because you are used to forcing MSOffice to be a DTP and it doesn't support it. And what DOES work on MSOffice doesn't necessarily work on OpenOffice. Which, since you use, you see doesn't work. And you make the unsupported but obvious mistake of thinking that OpenOffice doesn't do as much. Whereas if you were absolutely new to forcing a wordprocessor to be a DTP you'd find both were inadequate but equal. Or if you weren't trying to make them do DTP you'd see them equal, maybe even better on OpenOffice (since it doesn't do the quicker "dump that shit to disk straight from memory" and being open, more people can see badly structured programming and so fix it or ask for it to be fixed).
Why did Novel think they would benefit in the first place?
Moral of the story: If you approach your worst enemy and he agrees to help you, DO NOT TRUST HIM!
It's not like no one knew in the first place, but better late than never....
The GPLv3 is mainly what's kept us from going to Novell on our thin-client desktops (10K+). We aren't able to fully integrate it with our existing infrastructure legally.
Also, we had some technical issues that Novell couldn't give us a workaround for and exactly zero promise that it would be fixed because they don't always control the source.
Sadly, I have exactly no issues from Microsoft with the above items.
It's worth bearing in mind that whether you like this deal or not, Novell has successfully lifted several hundred million bucks from the Beast of Redmond. That's a lot of money and a huge sum for a Linux company. It may - may - turn out that this money was what Novell needed to keep the show on the road. From the sound of it, this recent news suggests that the deal is now over. Fine, nothing lasts forever. Forward to the next deal. Besides, Novell's problem has always been the same since they acquired SuSE: how to handle the awkward fact that traditional netware come backlist revenues are declining much faster than the Linux come new business revenues are rising. Sooner or later Novell will surely have to bite this bullet and reinvent itself or, yes, it probably will go under. And it won't be anything to do with Microsoft.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Or from Microsoft? I seem to recall that was kind of the pivotal point, here...
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
...they buy a service contract, which is what Red Hat sells.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
So they cuddled up to Novell, and watched them flounder.