If you want actual human studies - there are 4 grandfathered medical marijuana patients in the United States who have been smoking daily for 25 years now. Not one has shown any adverse health affects.
Starting k3b from Window Maker takes ~10 seconds [1], the bulk of which is spent starting kdeinit and the dcopservers and what have you [2]. Those apps seem to stay around after k3b terminates. Subsequent KDE app launches will be faster. Okular starts in ~5 seconds. [2] The only extra things that start with Okular are/usr/libexec/gam_server and a dbus daemon and client. [3]
I understand your concern, but think that you're blowing this a little out of proportion.
[1] Athlon XP 2800+ @ ~2.1 GHz, 2GB PC3200 DDR RAM, a single SATA 1 drive @ 320GB, 2.6.28 kernel. [2] And this is with an ongoing GCC compile niced to 14. [3] No kinits or dcopservers or anything like that started. I even restarted X, so the kinits and what have you from the last session terminated.
'Cause the Idiot User buys shiny things.:D I think that there's an entire semester in most Marketing degrees that's devoted to making shiny things for morons.;)
Anyway. We've strayed off from the beaten path here.
1) I know that IU's are targeted by MSFT. 2) I know that IU's are targeted by malware writers. 3) I know that MSFT makes their products flashy so that they appeal to the IU's sensibilities. 4) I know that the majority of users are clueless. (Frankly, we should be producing products for them that don't require them to have a clue, but that's another rant.)
Having said that,
5) It's a crying shame that MSFT doesn't ship a $20/seat bare-bones un-flashy Email-Video-and-Web-Browsing OS. 6) I know that it's not the PU's who drive the majority of Windows UI development.
...giving me a bunch of version numbers that mean nothing to me...
From earlier in the thread:
No. Version numbers have a set meaning.
And still earlier:
No, the concept of the standard versioning system is too hard for the KDE developers to understand.
You have been presented with version numbers representing the latest versions of OpenSSL. Have you heard of this software? Lemmy jog your memory. If I were as naive as you claim to be, I would be have started waiting for the real ready-for-end-users release oh... ten years ago, and would still be waiting today.
Good to know that it's not just my "crappy" hardware that's making the "Activity Workspace" slow.
Aye. I knew about the activity switcher widget. It's no slower to switch with that on my Athlon XP machine than it is to switch KDE virtual desktops.:D
Seeing as how I used to use Window Maker, I've only one *tiny* panel that contains the new K menu and the "recently connected devices" widget. I really wish that one could dump those widgets on the desktop as icons, rather than the expanded windows.
Speaking of multiple Activities... Panning the "big checkered Activity field" to find another activity is pretty slow on my system [1]. How's it on yours?
No, it's too difficult for me to read anything more than a version number, so I'm not even going to try. I'll play the blame game instead, so's I don't have to do any thinking at all.
Pff. I'm waiting until KDE 4.4! Surely no earlier version could be suitable for my advanced needs!
What's that, computer?
Fetching external item into 'kdebase/workspace/kwin/clients/oxygen/lib' Updated external to revision 917587.
Updated to revision 917586.
-- Found Automoc4:/home/kdedev/kde/build/kdesupport/automoc/automoc4
-- The following external packages were located on your system. -- This installation will have the extra features provided by these packages. + MySQL Server Congratulations! All external packages have been found.
Yep! Yep! This goes one better than embedding a local app in the chrome. I'm a little stoked about this. However... let's keep watch for MSFT's push to put WMA (and Apple's push to put Quicktime) allover the web. [Assuming that the video tag gets any traction, that is.:/ ]
Worse still- Comcast has just started getting really nasty about incoming SMTP and HTTP; they've shut me off twice, despite best efforts to sneak under their radar.
This is what amuses me as a slightly miffed Comcast customer. That little residential service ToS document that you agree to has (for at least the past five years) carried language that says "You _cannot_ run servers. Not even SSH or RSH." and "If you use too much of the network, we _will_ terminate your connection.".
WRT excessive usage: Comcast's recent quantification of "too much" is a *really* good thing (Even if I think that "too much" is *REALLY* not enough). It removes any ambiguity... you now *know* when they're gonna start throttling you this month. You also know that you're gonna be at full speed next month.
WRT servers: Did you not read the terms of the contract? Did you not understand them? If you think that they are unreasonable, then you should either not have signed up in the first place, or you should get a new ISP now. If more folks start jumping ship, then your current ISP will have to do something. Don't delude yourself. This is the only tool at your disposal.
Hmm. Lemmy reiterate: I'm not talking about the ordinary users. I'm talking about the "Power Users". For the purposes of this conversation, I don't give a flying fuck about the ordinary user. They don't exist in this world.
After an 'svn up' and build, I have instructions for you.
Right click on an empty place on the KDE desktop. Click the thing that says something like "configure desktop". A window will open that contains a pull-down menu that says something like "Type" with a value of something like "Desktop". Click that pulldown and select something like "Folder View". Click OK.
BAM. The desktop metaphor is back to what you had before. (And, in the very latest SVN revision, you can add plasmoids to this "Folder View" desktop as well. YMMV.)
If you want the old style desktop back, IIRC you can get it back with a teeny bit of fishing around in the UI. Plasma easily handles that sort of interaction.
I would post a step-by-step guide but -ironically- plasma in SVN R916310 continuously crashes on login. *grumble mumble, bleeding-edge software*
Is your card supported by the open source driver? If so, you might want to give it a shot.
That "unable to remove global hotkeys" issue is interesting. *makes a note*
I'm impressed with how well plasma and kwin restart (recover?) from crashes.
krunner is pretty slow for me, as well. The slowness seems to be unaffected by the number of results returned for your "search query". So, IDK what the root cause may be.
Slashdot Mirror
If you want actual human studies - there are 4 grandfathered medical marijuana patients in the United States who have been smoking daily for 25 years now. Not one has shown any adverse health affects.
[citation needed]
On the other hand there is usually at the very least a kbuildsycoca step involved when running your first KDE app in a session.
I *think* that Gentoo does this after a KDE app is built and installed, so hooray for that!
OTOH, you *do* have to wait for the app to build, so I don't think that you end up saving *any* time with the Gentoo way. ;)
Starting k3b from Window Maker takes ~10 seconds [1], the bulk of which is spent starting kdeinit and the dcopservers and what have you [2]. Those apps seem to stay around after k3b terminates. Subsequent KDE app launches will be faster. Okular starts in ~5 seconds. [2] The only extra things that start with Okular are /usr/libexec /gam_server and a dbus daemon and client. [3]
I understand your concern, but think that you're blowing this a little out of proportion.
[1] Athlon XP 2800+ @ ~2.1 GHz, 2GB PC3200 DDR RAM, a single SATA 1 drive @ 320GB, 2.6.28 kernel.
[2] And this is with an ongoing GCC compile niced to 14.
[3] No kinits or dcopservers or anything like that started. I even restarted X, so the kinits and what have you from the last session terminated.
Why does Windows even need to be "pretty"?
'Cause the Idiot User buys shiny things. :D I think that there's an entire semester in most Marketing degrees that's devoted to making shiny things for morons. ;)
Anyway. We've strayed off from the beaten path here.
1) I know that IU's are targeted by MSFT.
2) I know that IU's are targeted by malware writers.
3) I know that MSFT makes their products flashy so that they appeal to the IU's sensibilities.
4) I know that the majority of users are clueless. (Frankly, we should be producing products for them that don't require them to have a clue, but that's another rant.)
Having said that,
5) It's a crying shame that MSFT doesn't ship a $20/seat bare-bones un-flashy Email-Video-and-Web-Browsing OS.
6) I know that it's not the PU's who drive the majority of Windows UI development.
I think that we're both on the same page, here. :)
Also, LOL @ yer sig.
...giving me a bunch of version numbers that mean nothing to me...
From earlier in the thread:
No. Version numbers have a set meaning.
And still earlier:
No, the concept of the standard versioning system is too hard for the KDE developers to understand.
You have been presented with version numbers representing the latest versions of OpenSSL. Have you heard of this software? Lemmy jog your memory. If I were as naive as you claim to be, I would be have started waiting for the real ready-for-end-users release oh... ten years ago, and would still be waiting today.
FWIW, this might explain why krunner is a little bit slower than the kde3 dialog:
http://agateau.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/krunner-is-more-powerful-than-it-looks/
Good to know that it's not just my "crappy" hardware that's making the "Activity Workspace" slow.
Aye. I knew about the activity switcher widget. It's no slower to switch with that on my Athlon XP machine than it is to switch KDE virtual desktops. :D
Seeing as how I used to use Window Maker, I've only one *tiny* panel that contains the new K menu and the "recently connected devices" widget. I really wish that one could dump those widgets on the desktop as icons, rather than the expanded windows.
From here: http://www.openssl.org/source/
openssl-0.9.8e.tar.gz
openssl-0.9.8f.tar.gz
openssl-0.9.8g.tar.gz
openssl-0.9.8h.tar.gz
openssl-0.9.8i.tar.gz
openssl-0.9.8j.tar.gz
Would you like to reconsider your statement on versioning?
No. Version numbers have a set meaning... not just whatever you feel like having it mean.
$ eix -I openssl
[I] dev-libs/openssl
Available versions: 0.9.8e-r3 0.9.8f 0.9.8g-r2 0.9.8h-r1 0.9.8j
Would you like to reconsider your statement?
Speaking of multiple Activities... Panning the "big checkered Activity field" to find another activity is pretty slow on my system [1]. How's it on yours?
[1] Radeon R420 AGP (x800), Athlon XP 2800+, 2GB DDR 400Mhz (PC 3200?) RAM.
*grumble* And I lost my mod points yesterday. :/
That's some good writing you've got there.
No, it's too difficult for me to read anything more than a version number, so I'm not even going to try. I'll play the blame game instead, so's I don't have to do any thinking at all.
FTFY.
Pff. I'm waiting until KDE 4.4! Surely no earlier version could be suitable for my advanced needs!
What's that, computer?
Fetching external item into 'kdebase/workspace/kwin/clients/oxygen/lib'
Updated external to revision 917587.
Updated to revision 917586.
-- Found Automoc4: /home/kdedev/kde/build/kdesupport/automoc/automoc4
-- The following external packages were located on your system.
-- This installation will have the extra features provided by these packages.
+ MySQL Server
Congratulations! All external packages have been found.
Err... Umm...
Yep! Yep! This goes one better than embedding a local app in the chrome. I'm a little stoked about this. However... let's keep watch for MSFT's push to put WMA (and Apple's push to put Quicktime) allover the web. [Assuming that the video tag gets any traction, that is. :/ ]
I'm not one of the KDE team yet. I'm just a wannabe. Though, I think that I've found a foothold in a program of dubious value known as kdessh. :D
I'm not talking about *real* competition. I'm talking about *any* competition.
Last I checked, you could get dial-up through most telecoms, and you can get cellular data plans most anywhere in the nation.
Are they identical to what they replace? No. But WTF is your current ISP gonna do if you keep giving them money? (Nothing new, that's what.)
Worse still- Comcast has just started getting really nasty about incoming SMTP and HTTP; they've shut me off twice, despite best efforts to sneak under their radar.
This is what amuses me as a slightly miffed Comcast customer. That little residential service ToS document that you agree to has (for at least the past five years) carried language that says "You _cannot_ run servers. Not even SSH or RSH." and "If you use too much of the network, we _will_ terminate your connection.".
WRT excessive usage:
Comcast's recent quantification of "too much" is a *really* good thing (Even if I think that "too much" is *REALLY* not enough). It removes any ambiguity... you now *know* when they're gonna start throttling you this month. You also know that you're gonna be at full speed next month.
WRT servers:
Did you not read the terms of the contract? Did you not understand them? If you think that they are unreasonable, then you should either not have signed up in the first place, or you should get a new ISP now. If more folks start jumping ship, then your current ISP will have to do something. Don't delude yourself. This is the only tool at your disposal.
Sounds like Encyclopedia Dramatica is just the place that you're looking for!
It's why GM cars have all the cupholders.
What? I like cupholders!
MSFT certainly knows how to rent good hardware design talent and manufacturing facilities.
Also, are you saying that you reach for the 6 key with your right hand? You truly are a strange one. :)
Hmm.
Lemmy reiterate:
I'm not talking about the ordinary users. I'm talking about the "Power Users". For the purposes of this conversation, I don't give a flying fuck about the ordinary user. They don't exist in this world.
Do you understand where I'm coming from now?
Is Reiser the only FS you've used that fails under those loads?
After an 'svn up' and build, I have instructions for you.
Right click on an empty place on the KDE desktop. Click the thing that says something like "configure desktop". A window will open that contains a pull-down menu that says something like "Type" with a value of something like "Desktop". Click that pulldown and select something like "Folder View". Click OK.
BAM. The desktop metaphor is back to what you had before. (And, in the very latest SVN revision, you can add plasmoids to this "Folder View" desktop as well. YMMV.)
If you want the old style desktop back, IIRC you can get it back with a teeny bit of fishing around in the UI. Plasma easily handles that sort of interaction.
I would post a step-by-step guide but -ironically- plasma in SVN R916310 continuously crashes on login. *grumble mumble, bleeding-edge software*
Is your card supported by the open source driver? If so, you might want to give it a shot.
That "unable to remove global hotkeys" issue is interesting. *makes a note*
I'm impressed with how well plasma and kwin restart (recover?) from crashes.
krunner is pretty slow for me, as well. The slowness seems to be unaffected by the number of results returned for your "search query". So, IDK what the root cause may be.
Anyway. Thanks for the reports!